There are only three choices which are no deal, the withdrawal agreement or remain as has been the case since the beginning. No four-legged animals with a horn in the middle of their forehead. So Labour, what is this cunning plan ? and are you for or against Brexit?
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There are only three choices which are no deal, the withdrawal agreement or remain as has been the case since the beginning. No four-legged animals with a horn in the middle of their forehead. So Labour, what is this cunning plan ? and are you for or against Brexit?
Corbyn for Brexit, members largely against. None support the deal, or no deal though.
Problem is May didn't even try to honour the vote, that is per 2016 arguments, where the UK keeps economic relations with the EU but removes everything else. Clearly EU wouldn't agree to that freely. So May cooked up the "deal" instead.
Only way I see out of this is revoke and call a general. Deal / no deal unlikely to get past Parliament and who wants more arguments and division with 2nd referendum?
Once someone figures out how to get EU to agree to 2016 arguments "Brexit" can be in business again.
Wait for gen, back revoke art 50, genius play.
Some achievement to make things worse. Well done May
If I'm reading it right the EU have stuck to their word and offered nothing extra at all to help May with her deal.
There is no question about that. Labour clearly stated they stood for Brexit in their general election manifesto and their MPs honoured that by voting almost unanimously to submit article 50. I don't know how much more evidence you could want.
What does this mean for a second referendum? Will it still fail on the same numbers as it did during the indicative votes or could something change the arithmetic?
Yes , don't see anything getting through parliament but if they were going to revoke A50 they should have been anti-Brexit all along and changed leader.
They may have a long wait and it'll be too late. Not convinced that they'd even win it. Think they've got it all wrong.
Yes, agreed but are they now realising they've made an almighty cock-up.
Nothing like as cunning as the right wing nationalists in France.
They are just as anti EU as Farage but the big difference is that they don't want France to leave the EU.
They want to change it from within. That change is in effect to 'hollow out' the EU stripping it of its powers.
As I understand it they are running neck and neck with Macron party in the forthcoming EU elections.
I read it that May will only hold that vote if parliament votes for her deal, so that means the arithmetic could be different as in that case no one could say they wanted unicorns any more, they would have a simple three way choice. Which many of us thought was always the case anyway of course, but not a hefty slice of Labour MPs.
I thought I'd corrected you on this before, maybe it was someone else?
There was of course many more options than this, at the start. (BTW I'm not arguing that they aren't mostly a really bad idea, but hey, that's brexit)
That May has taken us into the current cul-de-sac is due to her mis-management over the WA. So now yes, without a massively extended deadline, we do only have those 3 options. 2 of which still fail the Labour tests, which are based upon May's own claims.
Le Pen is not coherent about anything though , my vote for the dumbest politician around (including the UK's) - Yes they are level with Macron in the polls. In 2014 they were ahead of the UMP (Conservative) and won the most seats in 2014 at the EU elections
No it wasn't me but the options for the future relationship come in the second phase but to get to the second phase the Uk has to ratify the withdrawal agreement which they won't. Labour's tests are impossible to meet unless the UK stay in the EU. Labour are equally as ridiculous as the Tories.
Thank you Paul.
I am interested in whether the fact that they have a certain level of popularity in France is due to their anti EU policy or is it more of an anti Macron protest type vote.
There were, if we were prepared to accept things which most Brexiters deemed unacceptable, such as freedom of movement. Remain is a perfectly respectable viewpoint, Brexit with have cake and eat it verges on the dishonest.
What is ridiculous about attempting to hold the conservatives to their promises from the election campaign?
Sure they know, as well as May, that they aren't deliverable. Isn't that the point?
Bit of both but like Farage's followers - forrinners (but more anti non-Europeans)
Yes they should contest the conservatives but if their policy is undeliverable as well it's not really taking the higher ground. Playing party politics by the Tories and Labour is not going to solve Brexit problems.
Which bit is undeliverable? A closer union would at least be less damaging.
If I remember they want the same benefits as being in the EU and a customs union where they make their own trade policy. Neither are possible. Single Market has to include the four freedoms including freedom of movement.
Imigration coupled with the emerging dissatisfaction with politicians is giving rise to a significant increase in right wing nationalists across Europe and of course the USA.
We can already see what is happening in the USA with trading tarrifs with China and now the anti abortion legislation.
All very dangerous.
The outcome of the EU elections is going to be quite interesting but I hope not a strong push to right wing nationalism.
The political leaders only have themselves to blame.
The 'same benefits' bit was a May line and part of their tests. I agree they have been non commital on the/A CU. But clearly they were simply stating their start point for negotiation, not what was to be their final agreement which would likely have included FoM.
Yes, the Tories cake and eat it strategy which transmuted into Labour's six tests later.
And the outcome would be that whether Labour or Tories had been leading the negotiations the withdrawal agreement outcome would have been the same. If Labour wanted to keep the CU and SM and FoM there is no point leaving at all and thus should have backed remain throughout.
I agree - now Trump is coming up for re-election next year and possible defeat? and the UK have set themselves up for becoming isolated and suffer the consequences - which could dampen nationalistic tendencies . Or things fester and morons take over the world.
Interesting. I wonder about the mechanics of it. Seems entirely plausible then that she if she got her deal through, she could then whip her party against the referendum?
Presumably, although the Tories don't seem to follow their whip anyway nowadays. Some would say it's a pity Labour do but I don't want to think about that or my head will hurt.
Who should I vote for on Thursday?
I'd either like to Remain or have a second referendum.
I'd either like to Remain or have a second referendum.
Look, nobody voted for a No Deal Brexi...
Lib Dem or Green.
The only reasons for voting Labour is stopping the brexit party and if the UK were in the future to remain in the EU, Labour doing well this election would flip the EU parliament to the left.
What if a 2nd ref was for leaving?
Eesh. I'm expecting this to be an outlier though.
How are you supposed to have a reasoned conversation about Brexit with someone like this woman? The sad thing is, I imagine more leavers than not think like this judging by the polls
Or they could run, cannibalize the Tory vote, and then present the Tories with an option of either entering into coalition with the Brexit Party and allowing those hard right wankers control over actual power, or letting a socialist in. Which do you think the already hard right Tories might choose?
Or Change UK.
Bukkake
These guys must shudder every time they see a large paper cup in someone's hands....
good one. "Vote for us because we might not even be a party in two months". I'm voting Green i think, this vote is basically an opinion poll so I'm going with the two issues that matter to me CC and a second ref.
I can't think of a good reason to vote Labour in my area (East). Corbyn will get needless stick for the results but that certainly isn't a reason to vote for them.
I like to think at some point somewhere someone is going to have the conversation with Trump that he might get milkshaked.