Television Breaking Bad
- Thread starter Burndogg
- Start date
Hank is a self serving bastard? So? He's clearly hasn't "broken bad". All he did was beat up Jesse after getting a bit too riled. Other than that, he's done feck all wrong. So far, he's definitely a "good" character.
Jesse has done terrible things too but nowhere near the same extent as Walt and clearly feels genuine remorse for a lot of what they've done. So he's not "evil" per say.
Marie again hasn't done anything wrong. Worst thing she did was her shoplifting habit. Telling Walt to kill himself was a pretty normal thing to say given the guy sold meth and was a murderer, and didn't want it to get out "for the family".
In contrast, Walt has completed his transformation from good guy doing bad things for the benefit of his loved ones to someone who will do anything and everything for power and survival in the name of family. He's quite an evil character and the only one who compares is Jesse although as I've earlier said, Jesse hasn't done nearly as much wrong and is genuinely remorseful of the ramifications.
You seem to be trying to paint all the characters with the same brush and looking for "evil" in them very hard. It's okay to want Walt to succeed. Everyone wanted don corleone and then vito corleone to succeed. They were murderers too. It's just that there's more emphasis on morality in breaking bad and with respect to walter.
Yeah the stuff with Marie and his injury was bad, to be fair. There's bitterness and then there's that! feck Jesse, also... I know he's been manipulated all over the place and that Walt let Jane die (and other little things like that), but he's become too annoying at this point for me to really root for him.
One thing I will say that's niggling me slightly at the moment about Walt though is the direction of his character. I thought it would be maybe a little more defined at this point to be honest, with the viewer either feeling an enormous sense of evil or seeing clear regret in Walt. His hesitation about Hank and Jesse hasn't really done it for me; that would've been a great thing to really capitalise on in the sense of him completing his transformation turning into a ruthless, cold-hearted bastard, or for him to really grasp what it's come to and perhaps break down a little.
There's lots of time yet, but I just think some of this needs to be a little more 'powerful' if that makes sense, with there being more scenes of the quality of the garage scene, the confession tape and the family arguments. Not unnecessary, overstated events by any means; just scenes that really leave a mark on you because of the tension (or emotion) and the quality of directing/acting. That is Breaking Bad's speciality after all, and it shouldn't be too hard to pull off given that everything in the show has been leading up to this point. Hopefully they go all out with Walt at this last hurdle and make full use of Cranston's acting skill.
Edit: This all being said, Walt manipulating Walt Jr. was a great touch and a particularly slimy scene. It's just that the garage scene set it up for something magnificent and I think they could've really committed to something after that, with him becoming the 'tread lightly' Walt full time.
I'm genuinely not sure of what I want to happen.I've decided now that I want everyone who stands in Walt's way to die. I don't buy all this stuff about how "you're not getting the show if you like Walt!1"; awesome TV characters don't make you think rationally.
All along I've been on Walt's side but as much as I want to want him to succeed, I inevitably end up rooting (as odd as that sounds) for the other side. Walters simply transformed into a completely cold blooded murderer who has lost the ability to look beyond his own interests and at the consequences his actions have on others. He's become almost obsessed with his incredible ability to manipulate others and he'll use it in anyway possible to keep himself from having to pay for his actions. Sure, he's "badass" as feck, the guy is a bloody genius both in terms of manipulating people and situations like puppets and as a meth cook, but he's gone too far off the edge.
Also, I've been reading through this thread slowly since I was catching up, but what's up with all the skyler hate?!
love theseActually I like that we aren't getting the "murderer psychopath" or "remorseful sinner" angle for Walt. It doesn't need to be explained either. It's pretty obvious where he's at. He's reached the point where he'll do anything for his own survival or success, or for " winning" if you like, and whatever terrible things he does have to do en route, are bad, but "necessary". The " whistling" scene put that across quite clearly.
At the same time, he does care for Jesse and doesn't want to go after him since he does see him as a so although if push comes to shove as it may soon, he's not going to hold back.
With regards to hank, it's probably because of the whole "family" facade he's built up. Everything he's done is "for the family", everything is forgivable if it's "for the family". And hank is family. It sort off shatters all the justifications he's built up in his head if he goes after hank. Also, his immediate family is genuinely all he has now since that is his life now, and killing hank would probably cost him skyler too and that leaves him with nothing.
I'm interested in seeing how far he's willing to go now. That's basically my study of his character now. His actions in the past are all self explanatory, but till what extent is he willing to go. So far, there's been nothing he's thought was too much.
At the same time, he does care for Jesse and doesn't want to go after him since he does see him as a so although if push comes to shove as it may soon, he's not going to hold back.
With regards to hank, it's probably because of the whole "family" facade he's built up. Everything he's done is "for the family", everything is forgivable if it's "for the family". And hank is family. It sort off shatters all the justifications he's built up in his head if he goes after hank. Also, his immediate family is genuinely all he has now since that is his life now, and killing hank would probably cost him skyler too and that leaves him with nothing.
I'm interested in seeing how far he's willing to go now. That's basically my study of his character now. His actions in the past are all self explanatory, but till what extent is he willing to go. So far, there's been nothing he's thought was too much.
It's probably because she's been a little vindictive in the past. Her controlling behaviour started when Walt was actually good, so to some extent she was sort of a 'bad guy' from the viewer's point of view. In reality, she never had the perspective we had, although at the same time I'm not convinced her reactions were always entirely proportionate to Walt's behaviour. A little more bitchiness than necessary even if some sort of reaction was completely justifiable.
I'm afraid not pal. Walt saved his life immediately before, and Jesse was returning the favour. He didn't want to, and it sent him into depression and drug use. He was totally remorseful over it. He really didn't want to kill Gale, but just had to for the sake of his own life and particularly Walt.
Done feck all wrong? In the last episode he was happy to let Jesse get killed just so he gets his case, after emotionally blackmailing him throughout the season. Walt does want him to get away and start a new life. Jesse is doing all in his power to stop that. He's getting in his own way and it's frustrating to watch.
Fair enough, what should've been done is not something set in stone and opinions will vary from viewer to viewer. In any case, what may transpire between now and the end may render these concerns ridiculous.
I'm verging towards thinking it would've been the most marvelous achievement to turn what he was at the start into almost 100% evil though, with us seeing the slightest drip of remorse dripping through in very particular circumstances. I'm thinking a scene whereby he finally ends up with Jesse - a gun to his head - with just a single tear visible right before he pulls trigger.
You could keep the complexity of Walt with these moments, but I think it would've had to have been done straight after the first episode. Like I say, whatever they do, I just hope they make use of the full range of Bryan Cranston's talents at this point and that there are some 'Crawl Space' moments lined up.Skyler was portrayed as being overbearing and a control freak to highlight how Walt was weak and unable to take control of his life. That only lasted for the first few episodes though, after then there had been a clear role reversal in the relationship with Walt taking control on almost every level up until Skyler found out about Walt's dark secret. Other than a few out-of-character outbursts - largely brought on by the stress of not having a clue what her husband was doing half the time and what he was becoming - she was a very supportive wife and loving mother. I'd have thought those would be seen as endearing qualities. After she found out about her husband being a major meth cook she went a bit mental - as you expect most people would. The only reason her vindictive behaviour upsets people is because it was directed at Walt. That - and this whole Team Walt/Jesse stuff - is a bit weird, in my view. The only thing I'm rooting for is a great ending to the series. It'd be a bit shit if it ended up being a tremendous finale but I didn't like it because my guy didn't win. They've all had their lives torn apart, they're all losers at this stage.
I think it all comes down to Walt Jr and the baby now. His problem is needing to deal with Hank discretely so he doesn't have to come clean to his son. Thinking about it, that might have been what Jesse meant on the phone. All Walt cares about at this stage is that Skylar and the kids getting the money. "otherwise this has all been for nothing." If Walt Jr finds out he'll reject his father and the money and again it'll all be for nothing. That's Walt's weakness and there are two sides to it: his relationship with his kids and the money he sees as theirs. I don't think he cares so much about the empire as long as those things are preserved.
So his only blot was that he was willing to allow two meth empire running ex partners meet which could possibly lead to an altercation between the two but most likely would get him a confession and put a psycho murderer behind bars. A bit cold, yes, but he was getting the job done. And also, it didn't actually happen (and he was right that Walt wasn't going to do it). So, yeah, the guys clean. "
Blackmailing Jesse? When was this? You do realize he's a cop trying to catch these two criminals, right?
That's how I see it. For me, her portrayal has been based on realism rather than populism.
By nature, she is someone who likes having things under control as has been shown early on but that's a pretty common trait in people. And which was probably perpetuated by having a husband so much the opposite.
I'm terms of support, it's hard to support someone who you know nothing about and who lies to your face day fin day out and acts like he has no idea why you're upset. It's hard to support someone who is your partner and also a wanted criminal as well as a cold blooded murderer. In the light of those facts, you'd expect her character to find it hard to support him and go through waves of emotions which is exactly what happened. In the end, she's supported him a lot more than he could have ever expxcred given his actions. The only time she let him down and not the other way round was I guess the cheating but he did have it coming the way he treated her before.
Emotions and actions are a strange thing and never really black or white in real life. That's what's so good about this show as it plays on that grey. Every character has flaws and redeeming qualities. I think they have written Walt's character perfectly.
I want Walt to win, just because he's bad. feck this, happy ending all will be well in life. The show will be even greater if it leaves a bad taste in the mouth when it's all done. Everything is broken.
It could still happen without Walt "winning".
Walt must win.
I am hoping for a totally depressing nobody wins or is happy ending like the Shield (My fav ending to a show ever)
The Shield was wank though, Breaking Bad must have Walt winning.
Did you watch it all? I loved the Shield
This.
Nah only the first series. Couldn't press delete fast enough.
Perhaps you should stick to watching Dexter then, man.
I don't see how the main character "winning" wouldn't be a happy ending. Especially considering how many seem to want him to.
Personally I think the "bad taste" story would be best served by him not winning, or at least not winning outright, and it all having essentially been for nothing (regardless of whether he's alive or dead) That's be the most nihilist ending at any rate. Either he dies, or everyone dies but him. I'm not going to be annoyed if that isn't the case though as long as it's done well.
Walt is no more, but a mask. Everything around him is crumbling, and he can't function at nothing else but being Heisemberg. That's penitence, and let's wait to shit going down where it never went before. His family.
He must win, even when losing everything else.
That sounds like the blurb on the back of a very bad book.
There won't be a clean cut win or lose situation anyway. Hank certainly isn't going to 'win' by bringing Walt in (far too undramatic) or rescuing his career, and any victory Walt achieves will be a small one in comparison to the ruin he's brought upon everyone else. Jesse is already pretty fecked up whichever way it goes.
You're setting yourselves up for disappointment by nailing your hopes to a 'side'...Just enjoy it.
There won't be a clean cut win or lose situation anyway. Hank certainly isn't going to 'win' by bringing Walt in (far too undramatic) or rescuing his career, and any victory Walt achieves will be a small one in comparison to the ruin he's brought upon everyone else. Jesse is already pretty fecked up whichever way it goes.
You're setting yourselves up for disappointment by nailing your hopes to a 'side'...Just enjoy it.
Please can people stop talking about the end of The Shield. I plan to watch that soon and don't want it spoiled. I'm sure others that haven't seen it feel the same. At least spoiler that shit please.
^ Same with Eastenders.
Will he feck, he was perfectly happy with his father who he thought had a gambling problem continuing gambling so he could have the car of his dreams. He is a cock end.
In the Redcafe entertainment forum? I'm not that weird.
All the black characters still live in one house despite not being related to each other.
It's the most likely scenario, along with the Scarface ending.
The problem with rooting for characters to the point where one MUST win for you to be satisfied, is that you're not following the story the storyteller is trying to take you on. The show has constantly tilted one way then the other to get you to root for certain people in certain situations. At the start it was all Walt, and Skyler was presented as the opposition (like Brwned has talked about) and then it tilted the other way. Early on in this season you're tilted towards rooting for Hank, who's presented as broken and faintly pathetic, but then in the last episode, when he dismisses Jesse's life, you're encouraged to tilt away again while Walt displays his desire to protect him. Mike is initially presented as a bad guy opposing Walt, then a good, loving grandfather who Walt fecks over, so when he does it's a big deal. Even Gus is given a backstory to root for at points where the writers want you to be on his side.
So picking a character, and then deciding everyone opposing them is opposing the best interests of the show, and that he must win for it to work is missing the point somewhat. It's fanboism really. And it's also how you get people still hating Skyler deep into season 5.
As long as the show gives you a reason why it should end the way it ends, and the whole thing is carried off well, it'll work.
Okay just watched the last episode. So, now everyone is turning into a mental sociopath. Great.
Skylar "what's one more" White. You've got to be fecking kidding me...
Skylar "what's one more" White. You've got to be fecking kidding me...
Can only agree with this. Hank has been working around the DEA ever since finding out and has on a few occasions thought of telling Gomez, but then stopped himself in the last second. All of a sudden he apparently did tell Gomez and we didn't get to see it. Given the whole build up to Hank telling anyone at the DEA it's quite puzzling why the writers (or directors?) left it out of the show.
That's not true at all. Who you root for personally depends not on who the writers want you to root for but rather on your own personality and which character you most relate to at any given moment.
Potential House of Cards spoiler:
I've just finished watching House of Cards for example and though my missus hates Frank Underwood as being a lying, selfish, murdering master-manipulator, I think he's just awesome because I always like devious, intelligent, ruthless characters.
Just as in House of Cards then the writers of Breaking Bad give all characters traits that one might like or dislike at any given moment depending on one's own personality. There's no set pattern of 'now you should root for A, now you should root for B' as you suggest, and rooting for Walt continously is in no way suggestive of one missing 'the point' since there just isn't any overriding point to miss as we're all free to make our own points and like or dislike whichever characters our personalities dictate that we like or dislike whenever we please.
Underwood is definitely up there with my favourite TV characters. I'm with you, cider.
Without derailing the thread, do you guys recommend house of cards? I keep meaning to get to it but always get distracted by something else.
Yeah it's very good.
Yet my missus hates him and wants him to lose miserably.
The writers of these shows know exactly what they're doing in polarising the audience thus. Just as in real life whereby people side with people for various reasons and not everybody will always agree on which side should be taken, the writers of shows like Breaking Bad emulate that tension and make compelling drama out of it.
It's Mockney who has missed the point if he thinks there are goodies and baddies set by the writers at any given moment. Perhaps he should stick to watching Eastenders in future, or perhaps WWE - keep things nice and simple for himself.
Cheers mate