Television Breaking Bad

Mockney said:
If we're talking in depth here. Is it plausible Hank thinks Walt is any more than just the cook? What's lead him to know he's the big I am? Why would he think the prison killings etc were Walt, and not the cartel, Mike or just heavies Walt cooks for? Is there an earlier indication I've forgotten or is that all just hand waved by the garage investigation montage?
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This was my big problem with the plot so far.

Hank must surely assume the prison killings were done by Mike. The DEA stopped the funds Mike was sending to his guys, and his lawyer flipped on him... then Mike evaded being captured by the police... surely all signs point towards Mike as being behind the prison killings?! The DEA does not know he's dead, or at least they haven't let the audience know that.

And the bomb in the nursing home has to be reasonably put down to the Cartel, as the other gang assumed in series 5a in the 'say my name' scene.

It seems to me that Hank knows far more than he can reasonably be expected to have deduced from the evidence. A plot hole by any other name. Still loved the episode mind.
 
Maybe when Hank realised that Walt was Heisenberg(the picture), he presumed that Heisenberg was the head of everything, rather than just a cook?
 
It's possible he was just going on a hunch and just openly said the stuff to Walt to see what his reaction would be to it.

BD94 said:
Maybe when Hank realised that Walt was Heisenberg(the picture), he presumed that Heisenberg was the head of everything, rather than just a cook?
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He did, because he previously thought Gus was Heisenberg.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
This was my big problem with the plot so far.

Hank must surely assume the prison killings were done by Mike. The DEA stopped the funds Mike was sending to his guys, and his lawyer flipped on him... then Mike evaded being captured by the police... surely all signs point towards Mike as being behind the prison killings?! The DEA does not know he's dead, or at least they haven't let the audience know that.

And the bomb in the nursing home has to be reasonably put down to the Cartel, as the other gang assumed in series 5a in the 'say my name' scene.

It seems to me that Hank knows far more than he can reasonably be expected to have deduced from the evidence. A plot hole by any other name. Still loved the episode mind.
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If the lawyer has already flipped on Mike then it wouldn't make much sense for Mike to then go on a killing spree would it?

I think Hank's going on the assumption that if Mike wanted to kill the guys he would have done it a long time ago.
 
I don't think a badly drawn sketch of an elderly man with a hat on is enough for a policeman to go off. He doesn't even have the beard in it, so the signifiers of Walt's look (the shaved head & goatee) aren't in it. If Hank found 'that hat' that'd be plausible, but looking at a sketch of a man in glasses is a bit of a stretch for a big breakthrough.
 
Hank could surmise that Walt is Heisenberg as the blue meth all but dried up for a while once Gus was killed, but then started showing up again a short time later. If the meth is showing up and the king is dead, then surely someone else is / was the king as its still being made and getting distribution. He could also guess it was Walt who killed Gus from that.

Also the picture of Heisenberg / Walt is pretty damning when seen alongside all the evidence; including the stuff Hank mentions ie Walt crashing the car, the telephone call to Hank to say Marie was in an accident.

I'm sure there's still a minor plot hole in there somewhere, but it's really nit picking.
 
akash02 said:
If the lawyer has already flipped on Mike then it wouldn't make much sense for Mike to then go on a killing spree would it?
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Criminals tend to kill people who rat on them. Mike is clearly the prime suspect for the prison murders.
 
What does however peeve me is that going from the episode, Walt clearly knew that the book was in the toilet and the whole theory that "he intentionally put it there for Hank to find" was basically proven false, which means that considering how careful Walt usually is, it was a pretty silly thing to do.
 
The sketch had the moustache though and once he suspected Walt I'd imagine a lot of things began to unravel
 
JohnLocke said:
Also the picture of Heisenberg / Walt is pretty damning when seen alongside all the evidence; including the stuff Hank mentions ie Walt crashing the car, the telephone call to Hank to say Marie was in an accident.
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Those both make sense in the context that Walt was simply the cook as they were both related to the labs/RV. Hank should know the car crash and phone call were because of Walt wanting to remain undiscovered, but I can't see how he knows Walt is much beyond the cook behind the blue meth.
 
Surely it would just be easier for Mike to kill them in the first place which would be far less risky and far less expensive for him. By the point the money stopped they were on to him anyway hence why he had to flee in the first place.
 
Mockney said:
It doesn't work in either case. If they were proper fans, which their knowledge of certain planets and what not seemed to imply, then an episode about pie eating wouldn't be brilliantly received. Have you ever seen geeks arguing over cannon and plausibility? It was having your cake and eating it from a writing POV. Plus it went on too long.

It's obviously a massively minor quibble.
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It was Badger's idea for an episode, not an actual episode wasn't it?
 
JulesWinnfield said:
Surely it would just be easier for Mike to kill them in the first place which would be far less risky and far less expensive for him. By the point the money stopped they were on to him anyway hence why he had to flee in the first place.
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Exactly. Mike doesn't gain a whole lot by trying to kill them when someone has already flipped on him.
 
I just think it's a case that Hank has been chasing "Heisenberg" all along and been under the assumption that he's far more than just a cook (hence accusing Gus of being him) and when he did see the writing in the book it all just sort of clicked into place with him that Walt is the missing link behind it all.
 
Cina said:
I just think it's a case that Hank has been chasing "Heisenberg" all along and been under the assumption that he's far more than just a cook (hence accusing Gus of being him) and when he did see the writing in the book it all just sort of clicked into place with him that Walt is the missing link behind it all.
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But the book is a gift from a fellow meth cook... it doesn't show Walt is more than a cook does it?

I guess the montage scene with Hank in garage was meant to sort of imply he's somehow worked it all out.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Those both make sense in the context that Walt was simply the cook as they were both related to the labs/RV. Hank should know the car crash and phone call were because of Walt wanting to remain undiscovered, but I can't see how he knows Walt is much beyond the cook behind the blue meth.
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He knows that Heisenberg is the boss, he knows Walt is involved (confirmed by him confronting him) and he has a vague idea that Heisenberg looks like Walt.

It's nothing that would stand up in a court, but I think its perfectly justified that he could have a hunch from it.

I don't think we even know that Hank knows, either, just suspects.
 
I was surprised we seen hank confront Walt so soon. I know walt forced it on him in a way, but I thought the show would have dragged a few episodes out of the wait.
 
akash02 said:
If the lawyer has already flipped on Mike then it wouldn't make much sense for Mike to then go on a killing spree would it?

I think Hank's going on the assumption that if Mike wanted to kill the guys he would have done it a long time ago.
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Correct, they already got Mike. They know everything though the lawyer and they have got Mike's granddaughter's money. There would be no reason for him to be behind the killings- it would be the one surviving member of the Fring operation, Heisenberg.

On the Fring bombing, yes it would be plausible for it to be Cartel and I'm sure most of the DEA think that- but with what Hank knows about how far Walt went to protect himself from being caught, driving into traffic, the fact he didn't go into protection with his family while Fring was murdered, (you'd assume he figured) assaulting a police evidence locker to destroy Fring's laptop, killing the 10 guys in prison- I'm sure it's all connected together in his mind now that Walt was behind it and the lab fire (since it happened at around the same time as the bombing and the Cartel would have no idea where it would be, so it was burned to destroy evidence).
 
Even if it is a bit of a leap I'm glad they've done it this way. Better than having Hank continue to piece things together for a few episodes while Walt serves some customers at the car wash.
 
Scrumpet said:
It was Badger's idea for an episode, not an actual episode wasn't it?
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Yeah, but it was a rubbish, implausible one for two Star Trek fans OR streetwise drug dealers to be talking about for about 5 minutes. It was a writer's indulgence for me.

MikeUpNorth said:
But the book is a gift from a fellow meth cook... it doesn't show Walt is more than a cook does it?

I guess the montage scene with Hank in garage was meant to sort of imply he's somehow worked it all out.
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And it wasn't addressed to Heinsenberg. It was addressed to Walt. The only clear signifier we've got that Hank knows Walt = Heisenberg is a dodgy sketch of a blind jazz singer without a goatee.
 
NinjaFletch said:
He knows that Heisenberg is the boss, he knows Walt is involved (confirmed by him confronting him) and he has a vague idea that Heisenberg looks like Walt.

It's nothing that would stand up in a court, but I think its perfectly justified that he could have a hunch from it.

I don't think we even know that Hank knows, either, just suspects.
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In the last scene Hank clearly knows Walt is responsible for the prison killings and the nursing home bomb. I just can't see how he can reasonably know that.
 
NinjaFletch said:
He knows that Heisenberg is the boss, he knows Walt is involved (confirmed by him confronting him) and he has a vague idea that Heisenberg looks like Walt.

It's nothing that would stand up in a court, but I think its perfectly justified that he could have a hunch from it.

I don't think we even know that Hank knows, either, just suspects.
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Once he knows the evidence will be easy to find. Cars, car wash, tax records, phone records, the bills for the treatment, pressure on Ms Heisenberg.
 
Mockney said:
Yeah, but it was a rubbish, implausible one for two Star Trek fans OR streetwise drug dealers to be talking about for about 5 minutes. I was a writers indulgence for me.



And it wasn't addressed to Heinsenberg. It was addressed to Walt. The only clear signifier we've got that Walt = Heisenberg is a dodgy sketch of a blind jazz singer without a goatee.
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Have you never been stoned Mockers? My mates and I used to spend hours talking in depth about the most inane rubbish ever.
 
Mockney said:
Yeah, but it was a rubbish, implausible one for two Star Trek fans OR streetwise drug dealers to be talking about for about 5 minutes. I was a writers indulgence for me.
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Badger and Skinny Pete are about as streetwise as me, ie not very, homedog. Anyway I think it was just supposed to be funny first of all, and the focus of the scene was Jesse even if he wasn't speaking, having to listen to the inane shite while he thinks about dead kids and whatnot.
 
It would've worked better if they didn't namecheck things that signified they were big Star Trek fans. Or went on for 5 minutes.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
In the last scene Hank clearly knows Walt is responsible for the prison killings and the nursing home bomb. I just can't see how he can reasonably know that.
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The prison killings are pretty straightforward if he know's it's Heisenberg. Some of the rats had indicated they would tell him who it was so its a fair assumption. The Gus killing could have been anyone from the Cartel but I'd have to watch those episodes back again to see if I missed anything.
 
I do love the idea that Mockney thinks that Badger and Skinny Pete are streetwise though. I always thought they were meant to be burnt-out losers, who only achieve anything when Jesse throws them a bone.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
The prison killings are pretty straightforward if he know's it's Heisenberg. Some of the rats had indicated they would tell him who it was so its a fair assumption. The Gus killing could have been anyone from the Cartel but I'd have to watch those episodes back again to see if I missed anything.
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He has to assume the prison killings are Mike. From Hank's point of view, it's surely not a coincidence for a criminal to be ratted out, disappear and then the rats end up dead. Hank must find that more likely than the chance his dear old brother in-law is a mass murderer?
 
Irwinwastheking said:
The Gus killing could have been anyone from the Cartel but I'd have to watch those episodes back again to see if I missed anything.
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I'd say the lab being burnt down at around the same time as Gus's death is pretty strong evidence that it wasn't the cartel. It was one of the men on the inside killing Gus and destroying as much of the remains of the operation as possible.
 
Drainy said:
I'd say the lab being burnt down at around the same time as Gus's death is pretty strong evidence that it wasn't the cartel. It was one of the men on the inside killing Gus and destroying as much of the remains of the operation as possible.
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The cartel would have wanted to destroy Gus and his whole operation. Would make perfect sense.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
He has to assume the prison killings are Mike. From Hank's point of view, it's surely not a coincidence for a criminal to be ratted out, disappear and then the rats end up dead. Hank must find that more likely than the chance his dear old brother in-law is a mass murderer?
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Hmm, maybe. I always think Mike was seen as a smaller bit part in the criminal empire to the DEA whereas Heisenberg has from S1 assumed to be the kingpin even when he wasn't/
 
Drainy said:
I'd say the lab being burnt down at around the same time as Gus's death is pretty strong evidence that it wasn't the cartel. It was one of the men on the inside killing Gus and destroying as much of the remains of the operation as possible.
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MikeUpNorth said:
The cartel would have wanted to destroy Gus and his whole operation. Would make perfect sense.
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Both POV are plausable.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
In the last scene Hank clearly knows Walt is responsible for the prison killings and the nursing home bomb. I just can't see how he can reasonably know that.
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Maybe he's guessed at Heisenberg's involvement and now at Walt's identity and stumbled upon the truth?

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that, acting in panic, confusion and anger, Hank has stumbled upon the truth of it all through a bit of luck and informed guesswork, without actually knowing anything for certain.

Maybe he wanted to fling shit at Walt seeing what would stick and hoping that Walt could persuade him that he was wrong?

Either way, I think it was a bit weak, Hank finding out should have been epic, a series defining moment that left everyone saying 'holy shit' not a flucky discovery he made whilst taking a shit.

Irwinwastheking said:
Once he knows the evidence will be easy to find. Cars, car wash, tax records, phone records, the bills for the treatment, pressure on Ms Heisenberg.
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Yeah, but he hasn't done that. I'm just saying it's perfectly reasonable that he thinks something might be true without being 100% certain.
 
Mockney said:
There's a difference between streetwise and cool. I just didn't like the scene, ok? feck you. It wasn't funny, and the premise was broad sitcomy stuff.
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I wasn't that big a fan of the scene either. I just don't find it implausible that they both know the details of Star Trek and now don't give enough of a shit to be upset by coming up with a silly episode while they are stoned, but still bantering about geeky stuff like the what type of berries are in the pie because its from the wrong series or something.
 
Rado_N said:
:lol: just enjoy the concluding episodes to one of the greatest shows ever!
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Of all the awful, awful things Star Trek is responsible for in modern popular culture, ruining Breaking Bad is up there with the worst of them. fecking Star Trek.
 
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