Auction-Trade Madness Draft

3 nothing players in draft context. Beckham only works if you stick Cafu at right back and John Charles up front with Gullit in behind.
 
21/02 - 01:48 - Bratseth - Enigma/TRV - 20m

21/02 - 03:30 - Bessonov - Pat Mustard - 20m

21/02 - 03:30 - R. Pavoni - Pat Mustard - 20m

21/02 - 03:30 - D. Stojkovic - Pat Mustard - 20m

21/02 - 03:30 - KH Forster - Pat Mustard - 80m

21/02 - 05.01 - Hagi - Moby - 30m

21/02 - 05.01 - Maspoli - Moby - 20m

21/02 - 05.01 - W. Samuel - Moby - 20m

21/02 - 06.11 - Alexis Sanchez - Crappy/Indnyc -20m

21/02 - 09.43 - Cannavaro - Isotope - 80m

21/02 - 09:46 - Arie Haan - 2mufc0 - 30m

21/02 - 10:39 - Koeman - 2mufc0 - 50m

21/02 - 11:53 - Candela - Enigma/TRV - 20m

21/02 - 12:00 - Soren Lerby - Crappy/Indnyc - 20m

21/02 - 12:21 - Barnes - Sjor - 20m

21/02 - 13:04 - Gio Van Bronckhorst - 2mufc0 - 20m

21/02 - 14:16 - Futre - Idmanager - 20m
 
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@idmanager can you edit the list as Van Bronckhorst is my pick.
 
Even if you manage to save 20-30m , you can't really significantly reinforce your team. And it all seems a bit pointless, why save your money when you might not even make it through to the next round, you are better off investing all resources now there's no reason to wait. Hopefully Edgar rethinks the reinforcement rules.
 
I hope any rule changes from here on take a consensus before.

Already been a shabbily run draft.
 
Purchase
  1. 2mufc0 - (1) J. Neeskens (2) J. Cruyff (3) T. Burgnich (4) R. Gullit (5) A. Kopke (6) W. van Hanegem
  2. Oaencha - (1) G. Batistuta (2) Neymar (3) L. Messi (4) N. Vidic (5) M. Preud’homme (6) G. Gattuso (7) W. Suurbier (8) G. Netzer (9) Maxwell (10) D. Albertini (11) G. Pique (12) F. Couto [Done]
  3. Enigma/TRV - (1) D. De Gea (2) G. Muller (3) A. Benarrivo (4) B. Moore (5) M. Tardelli (6) A. Simonsen (7) Rivellino (8) I. Netto (9) D. Villa (10) T. Adams
  4. MJJ - (1) Z. Zidane (2) F. Beckenbauer (3) H. Stoichkov (4) D. Law (5) R. De Vecchi (6) J. Leandro Ferreira (7) B. Wright (8) S. Ramos (9) S. Gerrard (10) E.Hazard
  5. Isotope - (1) Ronaldinho (2) A. Robben (3) P. Montero (4) O. Ruggeri (5) B. Schweinsteiger (6) C. Seedorf (7) Lucio (8) S. Rossi (9) Z. Ibrahimovic (10) Guardiola (11) Tassotti
  6. Idmanager - (1) G. Rivera (2) Rivaldo (3) A. Hansen (4) G. Meazza (5) G. Zambrotta (6) H. Chumpitaz (7) O. Varela (8) J. Tigana (9) G. Weah (10) A. Peruzzi (11) A. Demyanenko (12) E. Abidal (14) J. M. Camacho
  7. Lord Sinister - (1) Marcelo (2) D. Alves (3) G. Sarosi (4) Redondo (5) M. van Basten (6) W. Schulz (7) H.G. Schwarzenbeck (8) O. Ardiles (9) G. Buchwald (10) J. Oblak (11) J. Bozsik (12) Coen Moujlin (13) Nestor Rossi[Done]
  8. Arbitrium - (1) G. Facchetti (2) P. Lahm (3) M. Sammer (4) D. Beckham (5) J. Kohler (6) J. Stam (7) H. Kane (8) S. Canizares (9) B. Bremner (10) J. M. Moreno (11) P. Janes (12) C. Maldini (13) Y. Toure (14) Bale (15) E. Petit
  9. Moby- (1) J. Zanetti (2) R. Krol (3) F. Baresi (4) R. Ferri (5) J. M. Camacho (6) J. Greaves (7) K-H Rummenigge (8) Mackay (9) D. Blanchflower (10) A. Demyanenko
  10. Pat Mustard - (1) L. Ronaldo (2) Romario (3) R. Bonhof (4) V. Voronin (5) J. Giles (6) A. Pedernera (7) I. Viktor (8) W. Zmuda
  11. OneNil - (1) T. Cerezo (2) P. R. Falcao (3) E. Figueroa (4) G. Mendieta (5) Maicon (6) G. Lato (7) Emerson Leao (8) C. Puyol (9) L. Suarez (10) R. Rensenbrink (11) G. Pessotto 12. N. Liedholm[Done]
  12. Sjor/TRoss - (1) G. Best (2) O. Bergmark (3) D. Godin (4) L. Bonucci (5) W. Zenga (6) G. Souness (7) J-S Park (8) K. Dalglish (9) Robson (10) Filipe Luis
  13. Skizzo - (1) Zico (2) M. Coluna (3) T. Finney (4) C. Gentile (5) G. Chiellini (6) D. McGrain (7) L. Junior (8) P. Briegel (9) U. Seeler (10) D. Dzajic (11) M. Silva (12) O. Kahn [Done]
  14. P-Nut - (1) Socrates (2) P. Nedved (3) N. Stiles (4) P. Evra (5) J. Johnstone (6) A. Spencer (7) L. Blanc (8) M. Carrick (9) T. Courtois (10) C. Ferrara (11) C. Alberto (12) R. Lewandowski [Done]
  15. Crappy/Indnyc - (1) D. Irwin (2) D. Maradona (3) D. Alaba (4) F. Hierro (5) R. Clemence (6) T. Silva (7) M. Kempes (8) E. Abidal (9) R. Keane (10) Riva
  16. RaeVictus (1) N. Santos (2) Pelé (3) G. Scirea (4) M. Neuer (5) G. Nordahl (6) A. Vidal (7) L. Kubala (8) Zito (9) M. Kaltz (10) J. Masopust (11) R. Perfumo (12) R. Gordillo (13) C. Panucci [Done]
Money Spent
  1. 2mufc0 - (1) 80m (2) 160m (3) 30m (4) 80m (5) 20m (6) 50m
  2. Oaencha - (1) 100m (2) 60m (3) 190m (4) 50m (5) 20m (6) 20m (7) 30m (8) 50m (9) 20m (10) 20m (11) 20m (12) 20m
  3. Enigma - (1) 30m (2) 120m (3) 30m (4) 120m (5) 50m (6) 30m (7) 90m (8) 30m (9) 30m (10) 20m
  4. MJJ - (1) 120m (2) 180m (3) 70m (4) 70m (5) 20m (6) 20m (7) 20m (8) 20m (9) 20m (10) 20m
  5. Isotope - (1) 110m (2) 70m (3) 30m (4) 50m (5) 50m (6) 50m (7) 30m (8) 20m (9) 50m (10) 30m (11) 30m
  6. Idmanager - (1) 60m (2) 70m (3) 50m (4) 50m (5) 50m (6) 80m (7) 60m (8) 50m (9) 60m (10) 20m (11) 30m (12) -10m (13) 10m
  7. Lord Sinister - (1) 50m (2) 70m (3) 50m (4) 100m (5) 150m (6) 30m (7) 30m (8) 20m (9) 20m (10) 20m (11) 20m (12) 20m (13) 20m
  8. Arbitrium - (1) 120m (2) 20m (3) 100m (4) 20m (5) 80m (6) 20m (7) 20m (8) 20m (9) 20m (10) 50m (11) 20m (12) 20m (13) 30m (14) 20m (15) 20m
  9. Moby - (1) 90m (2) 80m (3) 140m (4) 30m (5) 40m (6) 30m (7) 80m (8) 20m (9) 30m (10) -10m
  10. Pat Mustard - (1) 150m (2) 120m (3) 30m (4) 40m (5) 40m (6) 40m (7) 20m (8) 20m
  11. OneNil - (1) 50m (2) 110m (3) 140m (4) 30m (5) 30m (6) 30m (7) 20m (8) 30m (9) 50m (10) 50m (11) 20m (12) 20m
  12. Sjor/TRoss - (1) 200m (2) 20m (3) 50m (4) 30m (5) 30m (6) 60m (7) 20m (8) 30m (9) 80m (10) 20m
  13. Skizzo - (1) 120 (2) 30 (3) 50m (4) 40m (5) 30m (6) 30m (7) 40m (8) 40m (9) 50m (10) 80m (11) 20m (12) 50m
  14. P-Nut - (1) 80m (2) 110m (3) 30m (4) 50m (5) 50m (6) 30m (7) 50m (8) 20m (9) 20m (10) 60m (11) 80m (12) 20m
  15. Crappy/Indnyc - (1) 50m (2) 180m (3) 50m (4) 50m (5) 20m (6) 30m (7) 30m (8) 30m (9) 80m (10) 40m
  16. Raevictus- (1) 20m (2) 170m (3) 110m (4) 30m (5) 30m (6) 30m (7) 30m (8) 20m (9) 30m (10) 50m (11) 30m (12) 20m (13) 30m
TRANSFER LIST

Billy Bremner- 30m
Harry Kane- 30m
Paul Janes- 30m
Yaya Toure- 30m
 
2mufc0 said:
Even if you manage to save 20-30m , you can't really significantly reinforce your team. And it all seems a bit pointless, why save your money when you might not even make it through to the next round, you are better off investing all resources now there's no reason to wait. Hopefully Edgar rethinks the reinforcement rules.
Click to expand...

I think a bonus (insert sum) should be given to those who get through and we should be allowed to sell players at base price back to bank.

No one wants to see stagnant teams all the way through to the final.
 
crappycraperson said:
I m assuming min prices won’t change in reinforcements at all.
Click to expand...

Nope.

2mufc0 said:
Even if you manage to save 20-30m , you can't really significantly reinforce your team. And it all seems a bit pointless, why save your money when you might not even make it through to the next round, you are better off investing all resources now there's no reason to wait. Hopefully Edgar rethinks the reinforcement rules.
Click to expand...

Reinforcements does not necessarily mean getting another GOAT. You just upgrade your weakest players and you don't need another $100m to do that.
 
The intention was to limit the bidding on usual suspects, and move the active bids to lesser known players....but didn't work. I was expecting more trading on likes of Haan, Koeman, Lerby who are absolute steals now. You all still blew your loads on few and are scraping the barrel down the line.

Anyways, if any of you are having thoughts on getting a >100m players in reinforcements, you can forget it...unless you have saved or willing to trade for it.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
The intention was to limit the bidding on usual suspects, and move the active bids to lesser known players....but didn't work. I was expecting more trading on likes of Haan, Koeman, Lerby who are absolute steals now. You all still blew your loads on few and are scraping the barrel down the line.

Anyways, if any of you are having thoughts on getting a >100m players in reinforcements, you can forget it...unless you have saved or willing to trade for it.
Click to expand...

Can we sell players purchased for 20m for 10m right now?
 
Raees said:
I think a bonus (insert sum) should be given to those who get through and we should be allowed to sell players at base price back to bank.

No one wants to see stagnant teams all the way through to the final.
Click to expand...
aye, agree with that. The bonus shouldn't be a great sum to get you GOAT's but something that you can improve 2 positions for example and keep the squad size at a minimum 12 should do the trick.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Nope.



Reinforcements does not necessarily mean getting another GOAT. You just upgrade your weakest players and you don't need another $100m to do that.
Click to expand...


I think you have done that pretty well with the pricing, there are so many GOATS which have been left unpicked. I'm not asking for 100m extra for upgrades, with current prices you need at least 80m to get a low level GOAT.

20-30 get's you nothing in this market, that's why saving money is pointless. If you are stingy with players now and save 100m you are very unlikely to make it through to the next round. It's just all pointless.
 
Enigma_87 said:
aye, agree with that. The bonus shouldn't be a great sum to get you GOAT's but something that you can improve 2 positions for example and keep the squad size at a minimum 12 should do the trick.
Click to expand...

I also agree with Pillow that trying to get 100m players for RI should be very difficult. So something which strikes a balance should be sought.

If someone is struggling to even scrape together a 30m replacement.. then, the motivation to strengthen your side is not even there if you've already built a strong team in R1 and for someone that has an okayish side, they must be thinking.. there's no realistic way I can really turn this team around as I can only buy 1 player anyway and I can't even sell two players for full price, so there is no chance of upgrading properly and catching up.

Even a 20m bonus could make a world of difference.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
The intention was to limit the bidding on usual suspects, and move the active bids to lesser known players....but didn't work. I was expecting more trading on likes of Haan, Koeman, Lerby who are absolute steals now. You all still blew your loads on few and are scraping the barrel down the line.

Anyways, if any of you are having thoughts on getting a >100m players in reinforcements, you can forget it...unless you have saved or willing to trade for it.
Click to expand...

Avoiding the usual super-teams at the end of an all-time draft will be a nice change of pace tbh. I think this has worked out fairly well, and given that the drafting is likely to be done and dusted in under a week it's not like we've invested much time in it anyway. If the later rounds turn out dull due to lack of reinforcements then just chalk it up as an experiment.
 
Let the winner take a replacement from the loser.

With a small twist that they have to return a player bought at similar price (plus or minus 20) to the bank.
 
Purchased
  1. 2mufc0 - (1) J. Neeskens (2) J. Cruyff (3) T. Burgnich (4) R. Gullit (5) A. Kopke (6) W. van Hanegem
  2. Oaencha - (1) G. Batistuta (2) Neymar (3) L. Messi (4) N. Vidic (5) M. Preud’homme (6) G. Gattuso (7) W. Suurbier (8) G. Netzer (9) Maxwell (10) D. Albertini (11) G. Pique (12) F. Couto [Done]
  3. Enigma/TRV - (1) D. De Gea (2) G. Muller (3) A. Benarrivo (4) B. Moore (5) M. Tardelli (6) A. Simonsen (7) Rivellino (8) I. Netto (9) D. Villa (10) T. Adams (11) R. Bratseth
  4. MJJ - (1) Z. Zidane (2) F. Beckenbauer (3) H. Stoichkov (4) D. Law (5) R. De Vecchi (6) J. Leandro Ferreira (7) B. Wright (8) S. Ramos (9) S. Gerrard (10) E.Hazard
  5. Isotope - (1) Ronaldinho (2) A. Robben (3) P. Montero (4) O. Ruggeri (5) B. Schweinsteiger (6) C. Seedorf (7) Lucio (8) S. Rossi (9) Z. Ibrahimovic (10) Guardiola (11) Tassotti
  6. Idmanager - (1) G. Rivera (2) Rivaldo (3) A. Hansen (4) G. Meazza (5) G. Zambrotta (6) H. Chumpitaz (7) O. Varela (8) J. Tigana (9) G. Weah (10) A. Peruzzi (11) A. Demyanenko (12) E. Abidal (14) J. M. Camacho
  7. Lord Sinister - (1) Marcelo (2) D. Alves (3) G. Sarosi (4) Redondo (5) M. van Basten (6) W. Schulz (7) H.G. Schwarzenbeck (8) O. Ardiles (9) G. Buchwald (10) J. Oblak (11) J. Bozsik (12) Coen Moujlin (13) Nestor Rossi[Done]
  8. Arbitrium - (1) G. Facchetti (2) P. Lahm (3) M. Sammer (4) D. Beckham (5) J. Kohler (6) J. Stam (7) H. Kane (8) S. Canizares (9) B. Bremner (10) J. M. Moreno (11) P. Janes (12) C. Maldini (13) Y. Toure (14) Bale (15) E. Petit
  9. Moby- (1) J. Zanetti (2) R. Krol (3) F. Baresi (4) R. Ferri (5) J. M. Camacho (6) J. Greaves (7) K-H Rummenigge (8) Mackay (9) D. Blanchflower (10) A. Demyanenko
  10. Pat Mustard - (1) L. Ronaldo (2) Romario (3) R. Bonhof (4) V. Voronin (5) J. Giles (6) A. Pedernera (7) I. Viktor (8) W. Zmuda (9) V. Bessonov (10) R. Pavoni (11) D. Stojkovic (12) KH. Forster [Done]
  11. OneNil - (1) T. Cerezo (2) P. R. Falcao (3) E. Figueroa (4) G. Mendieta (5) Maicon (6) G. Lato (7) Emerson Leao (8) C. Puyol (9) L. Suarez (10) R. Rensenbrink (11) G. Pessotto 12. N. Liedholm[Done]
  12. Sjor/TRoss - (1) G. Best (2) O. Bergmark (3) D. Godin (4) L. Bonucci (5) W. Zenga (6) G. Souness (7) J-S Park (8) K. Dalglish (9) Robson (10) Filipe Luis
  13. Skizzo - (1) Zico (2) M. Coluna (3) T. Finney (4) C. Gentile (5) G. Chiellini (6) D. McGrain (7) L. Junior (8) P. Briegel (9) U. Seeler (10) D. Dzajic (11) M. Silva (12) O. Kahn [Done]
  14. P-Nut - (1) Socrates (2) P. Nedved (3) N. Stiles (4) P. Evra (5) J. Johnstone (6) A. Spencer (7) L. Blanc (8) M. Carrick (9) T. Courtois (10) C. Ferrara (11) C. Alberto (12) R. Lewandowski [Done]
  15. Crappy/Indnyc - (1) D. Irwin (2) D. Maradona (3) D. Alaba (4) F. Hierro (5) R. Clemence (6) T. Silva (7) M. Kempes (8) E. Abidal (9) R. Keane (10) Riva
  16. RaeVictus (1) N. Santos (2) Pelé (3) G. Scirea (4) M. Neuer (5) G. Nordahl (6) A. Vidal (7) L. Kubala (8) Zito (9) M. Kaltz (10) J. Masopust (11) R. Perfumo (12) R. Gordillo (13) C. Panucci [Done]
Money Spent
  1. 2mufc0 - (1) 80m (2) 160m (3) 30m (4) 80m (5) 20m (6) 50m
  2. Oaencha - (1) 100m (2) 60m (3) 190m (4) 50m (5) 20m (6) 20m (7) 30m (8) 50m (9) 20m (10) 20m (11) 20m (12) 20m
  3. Enigma - (1) 30m (2) 120m (3) 30m (4) 120m (5) 50m (6) 30m (7) 90m (8) 30m (9) 30m (10) 20m (11) 20m
  4. MJJ - (1) 120m (2) 180m (3) 70m (4) 70m (5) 20m (6) 20m (7) 20m (8) 20m (9) 20m (10) 20m
  5. Isotope - (1) 110m (2) 70m (3) 30m (4) 50m (5) 50m (6) 50m (7) 30m (8) 20m (9) 50m (10) 30m (11) 30m
  6. Idmanager - (1) 60m (2) 70m (3) 50m (4) 50m (5) 50m (6) 80m (7) 60m (8) 50m (9) 60m (10) 20m (11) 30m (12) -10m (13) 10m
  7. Lord Sinister - (1) 50m (2) 70m (3) 50m (4) 100m (5) 150m (6) 30m (7) 30m (8) 20m (9) 20m (10) 20m (11) 20m (12) 20m (13) 20m
  8. Arbitrium - (1) 120m (2) 20m (3) 100m (4) 20m (5) 80m (6) 20m (7) 20m (8) 20m (9) 20m (10) 50m (11) 20m (12) 20m (13) 30m (14) 20m (15) 20m
  9. Moby - (1) 90m (2) 80m (3) 140m (4) 30m (5) 40m (6) 30m (7) 80m (8) 20m (9) 30m (10) -10m
  10. Pat Mustard - (1) 150m (2) 120m (3) 30m (4) 40m (5) 40m (6) 40m (7) 20m (8) 20m (9) 20m (10) 20m (11) 20m (12) 80m
  11. OneNil - (1) 50m (2) 110m (3) 140m (4) 30m (5) 30m (6) 30m (7) 20m (8) 30m (9) 50m (10) 50m (11) 20m (12) 20m
  12. Sjor/TRoss - (1) 200m (2) 20m (3) 50m (4) 30m (5) 30m (6) 60m (7) 20m (8) 30m (9) 80m (10) 20m
  13. Skizzo - (1) 120 (2) 30 (3) 50m (4) 40m (5) 30m (6) 30m (7) 40m (8) 40m (9) 50m (10) 80m (11) 20m (12) 50m
  14. P-Nut - (1) 80m (2) 110m (3) 30m (4) 50m (5) 50m (6) 30m (7) 50m (8) 20m (9) 20m (10) 60m (11) 80m (12) 20m
  15. Crappy/Indnyc - (1) 50m (2) 180m (3) 50m (4) 50m (5) 20m (6) 30m (7) 30m (8) 30m (9) 80m (10) 40m
  16. Raevictus- (1) 20m (2) 170m (3) 110m (4) 30m (5) 30m (6) 30m (7) 30m (8) 20m (9) 30m (10) 50m (11) 30m (12) 20m (13) 30m
TRANSFER LIST

Billy Bremner- 30m
Harry Kane- 30m
Paul Janes- 30m
Yaya Toure- 30m
 
ACTIVE BIDS

21/02 - 05.01 - Hagi - Moby - 30m

21/02 - 05.01 - Maspoli - Moby - 20m

21/02 - 05.01 - W. Samuel - Moby - 20m

21/02 - 06.11 - Alexis Sanchez - Crappy/Indnyc -20m

21/02 - 09.43 - Cannavaro - Isotope - 80m

21/02 - 09:46 - Arie Haan - 2mufc0 - 30m

21/02 - 10:39 - Koeman - 2mufc0 - 50m

21/02 - 11:53 - Candela - Enigma/TRV - 20m

21/02 - 12:00 - Soren Lerby - Crappy/Indnyc - 20m

21/02 - 12:21 - Barnes - Sjor - 20m

21/02 - 13:04 - Gio Van Bronckhorst - 2mufc0 - 20m

21/02 - 14:16 - Futre - Idmanager - 20m
 
How’s this for an idea.

From what I can tell there are 8 players untouched in the GOAT 150m pool.

After round 1, randomize those players and give each manager one, with a stipulation that they keep the player (and any funds they had left) or they can sell the player for 100m.
 
2mufc0 said:
20-30 get's you nothing in this market, that's why saving money is pointless. If you are stingy with players now and save 100m you are very unlikely to make it through to the next round. It's just all pointless.
Click to expand...

It's upgrading, not buying. Batistuta plus 40m extra would have gotten you Bobby Charlton or Dalglish plus 40m would have given you Masopust or Law or Stoichkov. The tiers are placed that way so you don't need a big money jump to upgrade players. Sell them and add in a little cash and you just jumped a tier.

The problem in normal reinforcements is that you can get rid of Zambrotta and jump all the way to Cafu in one swoop. It is in theory possible here too, but what's more likely is step by step upgrades by moving up tiers.

I'll consider Bank buying back at base prize but won't commit to it now.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
It's upgrading, not buying. Batistuta plus 40m extra would have gotten you Bobby Charlton or Dalglish plus 40m would have given you Masopust or Law or Stoichkov. The tiers are placed that way so you don't need a big money jump to upgrade players. Sell them and add in a little cash and you just jumped a tier.

The problem in normal reinforcements is that you can get rid of Zambrotta and jump all the way to Cafu in one swoop. It is in theory possible here too, but what's more likely is step by step upgrades by moving up tiers.

I'll consider Bank buying back at base prize but won't commit to it now.
Click to expand...

How is losing batistuta and getting charlton an upgrade to the squad? Its not batistuta that needs to be upgraded. Sorry for using logic.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
It's upgrading, not buying. Batistuta plus 40m extra would have gotten you Bobby Charlton or Dalglish plus 40m would have given you Masopust or Law or Stoichkov. The tiers are placed that way so you don't need a big money jump to upgrade players. Sell them and add in a little cash and you just jumped a tier.

The problem in normal reinforcements is that you can get rid of Zambrotta and jump all the way to Cafu in one swoop. It is in theory possible here too, but what's more likely is step by step upgrades by moving up tiers.

I'll consider Bank buying back at base prize but won't commit to it now.
Click to expand...
But why wouldn't you just buy Charlton or Masopust in the first place?

It also doesn't make sense to sell your best players just to make sideways moves.

It also doesn't make sense because you are weakening one part of the team (in this case striker) to strengthen another part. It's like whack a mole, and overall you aren't even improving the team.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Not just those two players literally, but a 30m striker can be upgraded to a 50m one and so on.
Click to expand...

I'd say your theory works well for R1, where you can sell the sub to generate extra cash but post the first RR, you're really struggling to meaningfully improve your side and it goes backwards if anything.
 
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