Arturo Vidal

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Bwuk said:
Khedira only has 12 month on his contract.

Get both.
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Herrera, Cleverley, Fellaini, Anderson, Carrick, Fletcher.

I can see us fitting Vidal in just because he is on another level to most players but Khedira isn't needed, besides since he lacks positional discipline and gets higher up the field, he needs a carrick style player to sit, alongside Vidal or Herrera he would be too attacking leaving us exposed in the middle.
 
Empire said:
Herrera, Cleverley, Fellaini, Anderson, Carrick, Fletcher.

I can see us fitting Vidal in just because he is on another level to most players but Khedira isn't needed, besides since he lacks positional discipline and gets higher up the field, he needs a carrick style player to sit, alongside Vidal or Herrera he would be too attacking leaving us exposed in the middle.
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Khedira is easily miles better than Cleverley, Fellaini, Fletcher and Anderson and is at the same level as Carrick and Herrera. Also a midfield of Khedira - Herrera - Mata wouldn't be less balanced than Khedira - Schweinsteiger - Kroos.
 
Revan said:
Khedira is easily miles better than Cleverley, Fellaini, Fletcher and Anderson and is at the same level as Carrick and Herrera. Also a midfield of Khedira - Herrera - Mata wouldn't be less balanced than Khedira - Schweinsteiger - Kroos.
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I think Kroos is better defensively than Mata and Schweinsteiger a stronger player all round than Herrera.

That said, it could work depending on how Louis van Gaal likes to set up. Since he is very offensive and also likes to keep possession he might not mind both his central midfielders being box to box.
 
Empire said:
Herrera, Cleverley, Fellaini, Anderson, Carrick, Fletcher.

I can see us fitting Vidal in just because he is on another level to most players but Khedira isn't needed, besides since he lacks positional discipline and gets higher up the field, he needs a carrick style player to sit, alongside Vidal or Herrera he would be too attacking leaving us exposed in the middle.
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Whilst I don't disagree on the Khedira opinion, that list of our central-midfield options just screams out for even more new blood - our central-midfield is just so poor. Certainly this coming season I can't see Anderson contributing (though I'm not sure we'll get rid of him this summer due to lack of buyers, but maybe we can find another team that's willing to contribute to his wages during another loan spell until his contract expires). Fletcher's health is still in question until he manages a full season. That basically leaves Herrera, Carrick, Cleverley and Fellaini from our current lot to play in that position (and if our only plans for central-defence are to sign Vermaelen then Carrick is going to be too busy playing as a centre-back to be a central-midfield option.)

I'm not sure we can simply list the midfielders we have without acknowledging the context of their likely contributions.
 
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Antisocial said:
Whilst I don't disagree on the Khedira opinion, that list of our central-midfield options just screams out for even more new blood - our central-midfield is just so poor. Certainly this coming season I can't see Anderson contributing (though I'm not sure we'll get rid of him this summer due to lack of buyers, but maybe we can find another team that's willing to contribute to his wages during another loan spell until his contract expires). Fletcher's health is still in question until he manages a full season. That basically leaves Herrera, Carrick, Cleverley and Fellaini from our current lot to play in that position (and if our only plans for central-defence are to sign Vermaelen then Carrick is going to be too busy playing as as centre-back to be a central-midfield option.)

I'm not sure we can simply list the midfielders we have without acknowledging the context of their likely contributions.
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I think we'll be lucky to get one good squad player out of fletcher, carrick, cleverley and fellaini at this stage.
Carrick is 33 isn't he? Suppose age shouldn't hurt him too much but he's not going to get any better. We'll be replacing him sooner than later one way or the other.
Others have serious question marks too.
 
Ekeke said:
Couldn't think of a more different pairing

A single one of Ander or Vidal gets more stuck in and makes more tackles than that partnership did

More goals, better passing

Vidal would definitely be different in a midfield 2 but still bring plenty and get on the scoresheet more often than our cms
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In principle, these players are number 8 in football terminology. Quality aside, our structure will be very similiar to that midfield pairing. They are used to playing with a protective shield behind them, so this duo output together will be different than the players we have come to know at Juventus and Bilbao respectively. This is unless one of these players takes up a more restrictive role.
 
Amadaeus said:
In principle, these players are number 8 in football terminology. Quality aside, our structure will be very similiar to that midfield pairing. They are used to playing with a protective shield behind them, so this duo output together will be different than the players we have come to know at Juventus and Bilbao respectively. This is unless one of these players takes up a more restrictive role.
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Vidal would be an excellent 6 for us with Herrera as 8 and Mata as 10. RVP as 9 with Januzaj 11 and Di Maria 7 :drool:
 
I can't help but feel that Vidal would be wasted as a rigid no. 6 à la de Jong. He can offer a lot going forward.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
I can't help but feel that Vidal would be wasted as a rigid no. 6 à la de Jong. He can offer a lot going forward.
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Who said a rigid 6? He could play that role but it wouldn't mean he'd lose his ability to play football, he'd just have to do it within that system.
 
Pexbo said:
Who said a rigid 6? He could play that role but it wouldn't mean he'd lose his ability to play football, he'd just have to do it within that system.
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Well we're placing him inside van Gaal's three man midfield, which usually consists of a strictly holding player. To be honest I've no idea what system van Gaal intends to implement, it's all speculation right now.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Well we're placing him inside van Gaal's three man midfield, which usually consists of a strictly holding player. To be honest I've no idea what system van Gaal intends to implement, it's all speculation right now.
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Aye I understand that, I'm just saying that if you have Vidal as a 6, you can expect him to do a lot more than if you had De Jong there, because Vidal is capable of doing more even if it is within that system.
 
I'd just play both as #8's i guess and swap between mata in front or carrick behind depending on the opposition.
Maybe drop one for mata the odd time.
It'd be so nice to have options for a change.
 
Amadaeus said:
In principle, these players are number 8 in football terminology. Quality aside, our structure will be very similiar to that midfield pairing. They are used to playing with a protective shield behind them, so this duo output together will be different than the players we have come to know at Juventus and Bilbao respectively. This is unless one of these players takes up a more restrictive role.
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They are number 8s who compete for the ball more than almost any number 8s in world football.

For example City's title winning midfield duo won the ball 4.4 times a games with tackles and 2.5 times a game with interceptions.

Liverpool as a team made the most tackles in the league last season, narrowly more than Palace. Their most used midfield 3 of Henderson, Gerrard and Allen won the ball with 8.1 tackles between them and 3.5 interceptions

Ander's 3.1 tackles a game and 1 interception (in an advanced role where he needs to save a lot of energy for attack) + Vidal's 4.1 tackles and 1.2 interceptions (7.2 and 2.2) are light years away from :

Cleverley's 2.2 tackles and 1.5 interceptions + Anderson's 1.3 tackles and 0.8 interceptions

Yes they'd obviously need to learn to play together and wouldnt be able to attack as much as they have the past season. Ander was in the hole and Vidal has many players behind him at Juventus, thats obvious.

But Cleverley has had his best season defensively and still won the ball a fair bit less than either of the two. Anderson has never been very involved when we dont have the ball. When they played together, Cleverley wasnt winning the ball much either. So it'd be a completely different story.

Yes one of them would have to take more responsibility defensively, trying to spot danger and see it off but that's something we had an issue with last season with Carrick, Fellaini, Cleverley and the rest. So I dont see why its such a big deal now, with two miles better players who add a lot more going forward as well as winning the ball more often.

If we want someone to just see off the danger, we'll sign Mascherano. I don't think its the plan.
 
Ekeke said:
They are number 8s who compete for the ball more than almost any number 8s in world football.

For example City's title winning midfield duo won the ball 4.4 times a games with tackles and 2.5 times a game with interceptions.
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Fernandinho was the standout "number 6." There was no disparity between who was the number 8 in the system. He made the most tackle and interception, while Toure played more of a free role.

Ekeke said:
Liverpool as a team made the most tackles in the league last season, narrowly more than Palace. Their most used midfield 3 of Henderson, Gerrard and Allen won the ball with 8.1 tackles between them and 3.5 interceptions
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Irrelavent, they used a midfield three while we are discussing about a midfield two. Herrera and Vidal would thrieve in a three man midfield, but at the cost of shunning Mata or Rooney? Noo way.

Ekeke said:
Ander's 3.1 tackles a game and 1 interception (in an advanced role where he needs to save a lot of energy for attack) + Vidal's 4.1 tackles and 1.2 interceptions (7.2 and 2.2) are light years away from :

Cleverley's 2.2 tackles and 1.5 interceptions + Anderson's 1.3 tackles and 0.8 interceptions

Yes they'd obviously need to learn to play together and wouldnt be able to attack as much as they have the past season. Ander was in the hole and Vidal has many players behind him at Juventus, thats obvious.
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They have good tackling and intercepting stats, but I am not sure if that would transfer over at United when played in a different system that would hypothecially incoporate two numbers 8. An environment, I believe they have not consistently played in.

Ekeke said:
But Cleverley has had his best season defensively and still won the ball a fair bit less than either of the two. Anderson has never been very involved when we dont have the ball. When they played together, Cleverley wasnt winning the ball much either. So it'd be a completely different story.

Yes one of them would have to take more responsibility defensively, trying to spot danger and see it off but that's something we had an issue with last season with Carrick, Fellaini, Cleverley and the rest. So I dont see why its such a big deal now, with two miles better players who add a lot more going forward as well as winning the ball more often.

If we want someone to just see off the danger, we'll sign Mascherano. I don't think its the plan.
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We do not need a player who" just see of the danger,"(ala De Jong, makelele, etc.). We need a player who is technically proficient enough to anchor the midfield, while also contribute to the fluidity of our football. I believe that with four/three other attack minded players in front of the midfield, we would need to find the right balance in the central midfield area. Just like how Germany has Khedira, City has Fernandinho, Chelsea has Matic, etc., we would need to identify who will be our number 6 out of the two in order to make our team appear more structured. Some already says it should be Herrera, while others said Vidal. Not having a majority concensus towards who will be our number 6 elaborates the problem in this midfield pairing and shows what I meant when I made the initial comparison between the attack minded duo of Anderson and Cleverley.
 
SiRed said:
I was slated for suggesting we sign Khedira rather than Vidal. I think he is a great player.
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He is but he's not a world class player, that's the difference.
 
SiRed said:
I think he is tho. he does the unspectacular things extemely well and his positioning is first class
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Again brilliant player but when you have the chance to bring in a player of Vidals quality then you have to take it, it doesn't happen often.
 
ivaldo said:
He is but he's not a world class player, that's the difference.
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These extremely exacting standards are why our midfield is in such a ruinous state. Khedira, world class or not, is vastly superior to all of our midfield options, including Herrera.

With only one year left on his deal, and Madrid's propensity to flog their less glamorous players, we should definitely be checking to see if he'd be interested in coming to us.
 
Pexbo said:
Vidal would be an excellent 6 for us with Herrera as 8 and Mata as 10. RVP as 9 with Januzaj 11 and Di Maria 7 :drool:
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Herrera is more adaptable at 6 than Vidal i would have thought. When did Vidal play 6 last ? Goalscoring is one of his assets and getting into direct assisting positions.
 
ivaldo said:
Again brilliant player but when you have the chance to bring in a player of Vidals quality then you have to take it, it doesn't happen often.
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Would Khedira's price be so high as to prevent us going after Vidal? I don't believe so.

Also, we've shifted some major wages out of the club in the past few months.

If we could land Herrera, Vidal and Khedira in this window, we're set for 5 years. And we'd win the title this coming season.
 
Feed Me said:
These extremely exacting standards are why our midfield is in such a ruinous state. Khedira, world class or not, is vastly superior to all of our midfield options, including Herrera.

With only one year left on his deal, and Madrid's propensity to flog their less glamorous players, we should definitely be checking to see if he'd be interested in coming to us.
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No way is Khedira vastly superior than Herrera. About the same level and he is pretty much a water carrier type player, who would only fit with us if we are going 3 in midfield.

I think we should buy a proper 6 or if we want a 8 after Herrera then he has to be top class or potentially top class.
 
Khedira should get nowhere near Old Trafford. He's neither potential nor elite quality. He muddles in the middle and doesn't really offer us anything we desperately need, provided we pulled of a coup like Vidal.

He's a good player but our midfield purchase should be more than that.
 
Kag said:
Khedira should get nowhere near Old Trafford. He's neither potential nor elite quality. He muddles in the middle and doesn't really offer us anything we desperately need, provided we pulled of a coup like Vidal.

He's a good player but our midfield purchase should be more than that.
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Looked quality last night, and offered more than I realised he could.

He'd be an upgrade on all we have in mid bar Herrera, and not in the way Fellaini supposedly was last year!
 
Sandikan said:
Looked quality last night, and offered more than I realised he could.

He'd be an upgrade on all we have in mid bar Herrera, and not in the way Fellaini supposedly was last year!
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I didn't watch the game, but I think we've all seen him play plenty of times. He's a good player, gets stuck in and provides good energy, but he has limitations. I don't think too much of his passing either. I'd pass and get somebody better, wherever possible.
 
Last night was not the best match by a distance to judge any of the players tbh. Cleverley, Anderson, Young all were world beaters when he similarly smashed Arsenal and Valencia and Giggs etc.. in Bayer. While Brazil players looked pub players.
 
ivaldo said:
Again brilliant player but when you have the chance to bring in a player of Vidals quality then you have to take it, it doesn't happen often.
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Obviously Vidal would be my first choice.. IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT. I would rather us sign a 20 million pound Khedira than a 50 million pound Vidal. 45 million tops for him
 
SiRed said:
Obviously Vidal would be my first choice.. IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT. I would rather us sign a 20 million pound Khedira than a 50 million pound Vidal. 45 million tops for him
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Yep, that extra 5 million will make me skip breakfast and dinner 4 times a week.
 
SiRed said:
Obviously Vidal would be my first choice.. IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT. I would rather us sign a 20 million pound Khedira than a 50 million pound Vidal. 45 million tops for him
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Really? Money is no object in this window, we need to force ourselves back into Europe, £50mil for Vidal still seems like a bargain to me anyway!
 
I dunno Khedira for 20 million would be good value on top of another world class central midfielder. We should sign up anything approaching his standards and he has potentially 6-7 years of football left him. Could be a really good 3rd midfielder/ depth option now that Carrick's coming on a bit (if Sami is willing to take up that role that is).
 
CurryCantona said:
Yep, that extra 5 million will make me skip breakfast and dinner 4 times a week.
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Got to draw the line somewhere.

ivaldo said:
Really? Money is no object in this window, we need to force ourselves back into Europe, £50mil for Vidal still seems like a bargain to me anyway!
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And you know this because????? you read a newspaper saying we have 200 mil by any chance??

Money has been an issue for years, hence the Ronaldo money never being invested properly into the team, which is partly why we need such a drastic re-build.
 
I know Howard Nurse is slow with news but still worth posting imo



Hopefully this means that United are working in silence to get him and not that we're not in for him at all.
 
I haven't been keeping up with my muppeting. Just noticed a lot of comments about Vidal, in the Evra thread. People talking about it as if it's clear we're in for him. Is this the muppet consensus, at present?
 
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