I agree, but Ramsay was performing to an extremely high level, he was in absolutely insane form. I don't think you can say Vidal will be outperforming him at his best.
Arturo Vidal
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I agree, but Ramsay was performing to an extremely high level, he was in absolutely insane form. I don't think you can say Vidal will be outperforming him at his best.
Ah yes, the typical "You disagree with me, thus you don't know what you are tackling about" line. Quite simply, that is utter tosh. I rate Vidal very highly and as one of the best midfielders in the world, I just think people are treating him as the best thing since sliced bread and that there is a chance, however slim, that he could fail in the Premier League. Serie A players have struggled here of late and the league is undeniably not what it was.
I barely watched Chile, so no that's not it. I judge him based on what I've seen from him at Juventus in the Champions League and numerous Serie A matches. I'm a big watcher of Serie A and know how much the quality has dropped. Look at the point difference between Juve and Roma last season, that shows you how little true opposition they have. It's not hard to imagine he'd be very good in a side like that
There are other midfielders out there, United fans are treating him like the holy grail. I'm just refusing to get carried away with the hype.
If we are buying a CDM, I like Gustavo and prefer him to Carvalho.
When Vidal goes I think it will be for around 50m and I do hope we get him.
Usually Id worry about the huge outlay but we are long overdue for a marquee signing or two and I believe Woodie and I are on the same page on this matter
we need a CM and one that would add steel to the MF. and if they got vidal i would be delighted. Its the price i worry about. someone might say its not your money so dont worry about, but still common sense should prevail. for 60 million we could bring in two MFs i would say
exactly
If you say so. I just find it hard to believe you would be saying this if you watched him much. It would be like doubting Benatia is a good defender just because he plays in Serie A, when it's clear that he would do well in any league.
On the last part, obviously there are other, inferior players out there. No one thinks there isn't and United have been linked with enough alternative targets to remind everyone of this. Not many people actually think we'll pull this off either, so we are well aware of the other options. Fact is that none are as good as Vidal, as I said before only Modric really rivals him right now in my view and he's not going anywhere.
sortbyscorepointsbecomefootballexpert
If that happened, it would somehow be Moyes' fault.Imagine if he did sign and then flopped.
Good point. I'm happy we have LvG and trust his ability to select the right players. If we don't get Vidal, we will will probably get Strootman in 6 months, as well as De Jong or another cheaper option who can add depth and dimension to his overall strategy.
No it wouldn't, because I don't doubt Vidal is a good player. I think he's a very good player, as is Benatia. I just think you need to have a bit of perspective when looking at players coming from Serie A these days. Modric is better than him right now in my personal view, he's proven it in the Champions League and at a significantly higher level. He is for my money the best midfielder in the world.
None are as good as Vidal, but some could perform a role you need more. Honestly, you need a holding midfielder more than you do Vidal right now. I'm just saying United fans shouldn't panic if you fail to get him.
Nope, because I assess their performance based on what I see, not what I read. So i take it you wouldnt want Modric or Xavi playing for us because they dont score enough. Its a mute point anyway as he does find the net regularly.
Have you actually watched Vidal play? Hes a colossus, hes not the type of man to be affected by a big price tag.
Why get carried away when you've got Paulinho, Capoue, Sandro and Dembele?
No one is though. All anyone has said is that they really hope we get him.
It would be a fantastic coup for us, but as I said before we've been linked to plenty of other players if this doesn't happen.
Strootman is absolute quality and exactly what you'd need. De Jong is underrated too, been in very good form for Milan despite their poor season.
The problem is for me people often get carried away by "star names" and think that's the only way to success. Van Gaal has proved with this Dutch team that's not true, as have Atletico. They were a few minutes from winning the CL against a ridiculously expensive Real Madrid side.
you are asking a lot of rhetorical questions which i wont answer
Brazil international regular, a perfectly good defensive midfielder, one of the best destroyers in the league at his best and a good midfielder in poor form. Hardly something to jest at when before this season it was being touted as the best midfield in the league. Obviously that was nonsense but its far from a weak midfield under the right manager, just lacks creativity.
It's the last thing you mock Spurs about; especially when you have Eriksen for the attacking midfield role. Wouldn't swap him for Ozil in a million years by the way.
Also not sure what my clubs midfield options have to do with my personal opinion, when did I say anything about Tottenham?
That's a great way of avoiding my points.
I don't care how good a fit he'd be, I really don't want a City player in the team.
Well that's exactly what makes it lolable
Paulinho and Capoue are wank, Dembele is average, Sandro can look a real good player on his day. Ozil is better than Eriksen.
I don't get your points about Vidal. He is one of the best midfielders in the world, would fit us and suit the league, case closed.
Xavi in the 10/11 season had 3 goals and 7 assists. That alone proves that using stats to compare certain players (especially midfielders) is wrong. Saying ramsey was playing better than vidal because he was scoring more goals than him is also very wrong in my opinion. I don't know why in England there is an obsession with midfielders scoring goals when surely it is more useful for them to control the game and provide a platform for other players to score, like scholes used to. Vidal has proven he can perform against the big boys. When he played vs munich in 2013 he played well even though his team lost and he played well vs Madrid this year. Ramsey over the two legs vs Dortmund was poor, although he managed to score in the second leg I expect much more from my midfielders. Just because ramsey appears on the telly more and sky sports reckon he is better than vidal doesn't mean he is. I like ramsey a lot and I think he has the potential to be a great player one day but he has it all to prove. Vidal already has by playing a big part in his team winning three leagues in a row and having a lot of the big clubs in the world after him. I also don't understand how you think playing well in seria a is not enough to prove that you can play well in the premier league. While I would agree that the premiership is probably better it is not considerably so. Italian teams have gotten good results vs the premiership teams in recent seasons including city beating Napoli among others. Saying hamsik and vidal and others would flop in the premiership is unfair as when you look at it the league is made up of foreigners and it is the English players who flop in the premiership. Like I said before, just because the premiership is on the telly more and sky sports says that it is better doesn't mean it is so.
Luckily he's a Milan player.
Because that would actually involve watching football matches, why bother with that when it's quicker to just quote stats and look clever?
Have to say the reports that Juve are not willing to sell us Vidal sound about right. I think there's more to the saga to come but eventually we will lose out
At no point did I say Ramsey was better than Vidal. I said that when he was getting lots of plaudits it was because he was performing at a very high level and that saying Vidal would be doing much better than him was underrating just how good his form was.
Vidal won three leagues in a row with by a country mile the best side. Please excuse me if I don't applaud him. Bendtner was there when they won the league.
I'm not saying he WILL flop, I'm saying there's always that chance. Also, the Premier League right now is considerably better than Serie A. When Napoli beat City they had both Cavani and Lavezzi, both of which they have now lost. One Italian side made it out of the group stages last year and that was Milan who went out in the first round. One.
I don't think you can be certain of a player peforming to the same standard in the Premier League as he did in the Serie A.
I was responding to somebody saying his stats were terrific and showed they weren't out of this world. I am under no illusion that stats are not the only way you can judge a player.
Paulinho wank
. He's a regular for one of the best national teams in the world. He had an average first season, as do many players. He's not that incredible but he's a decent midfielder, not "wank". Capoue was excellent at the start, got injured and then played at CB. He's not that bad.Dembele is pretty average; on his day he's explosive though, his dribbling and strength is a massive asset. Sandro is a monster when in form.
Right now, sure (although not going off last season). In the future? Nah, not for me. Eriksen has more potential. Hence why I wouldn't swap them.
Paulinho wank
Dembele is pretty average; on his day he's explosive though, his dribbling and strength is a massive asset. Sandro is a monster when in form.
Right now, sure (although not going off last season). In the future? Nah, not for me. Eriksen has more potential. Hence why I wouldn't swap them.
Paulinho's wank, he gets into Brazil's team because Scolari has his favorites. Fernandinho shits all over him.
You are trying to make Vidal look like (potentially) a bad signing or something? I don't get what your point is with Vidal.
He's not wank, but I can see you aren't going to budge on this.
No, I'm not. I'm saying some are getting carried away with him and that he's not the only option. He'd still be a very good signing, obviously.
We all know he's not the only option. He is the best CM available though.
United, city and Chelsea went out in the groups stages in recent years. Was seria a the better league those seasons?I think the premiership is better but not by as much as you think. I actually rate seria a and I have time for it. I don't dismiss it it at all. More players from seria a have done their countries proud in recent international tournaments that premiership ones have. Like the Italy national team that got to the final of euro 2012.
It has undoubtedly been in a poor state the last couple of years. It was stronger only a few years ago, Napoli had Lavezzi and Cavani, Milan Thiago Silva and Ibra etc. They've had an exodus of stars.
Then they failed to get out of the group stages now. They are going through a rough patch right now, the Premier League isn't what it once was either.
Did Gill tell you that?
Fergie etc. said the money was gonna be re-invested in the team - it wasnt!
Dont be giving me all that servicing the debt nonsense - is a lame excuse some folk shite on about to make sense of us & Fergie being so stingey in the transfer market - always buying cheap alternatives. Its old hat jargon, and doesnt wash with the fans.
The club bring in record amounts of revenue every single season & at the end of this financial year - we're projected to bring in atleast £420m. Servicing the debt is not even an issue in terms of United's spending power..
Sorry, i dont mean to be in your face about it, just does my head in folk lettin United off the hook (regarding transfers) with the debt issue
He was wank the first time round in Europe as well.Paulinho wank
I see where you are coming from but you have to remember that just because players are not well known doesn't mean they are not any good. Seria a does not get as much media attention and is not as commercial as the premiership. The Italian language and money are certainly barriers to it becoming so. Lots of people myself included thought pirlo was past it before euro 2012. Lots of people were not aware of how good Dortmund were before 12/13 season. The premiership and the English media overrate a lot of players by a ridiculous amount and it seems to lead to people believing they are better than they are. Mata and cazorla, two very good players did not get near as much attention or near as much hype when they were in spain. I also knew Liverpool fans who were adamant that reina was better than casillas and that he should start for spain ahead of him. Even torres who was rated highly before he moved was questioned a lot more and there were doubts over whether he was world class although to be fair to him he improved as a player when he moved to spain. The premiership is a good league that I like to watch but they really do overrate a lot of there players, especially the English ones. When it comes to things like football it seems like they are in their own world at times.
Is there any actual concrete news we are in for Vidal?
With Thiago, Hazard, Lucas and Fabregas it was clear the club had put in bids despite ultimately being unsuccessful.
Can't see anything concrete with this at all.
With Thiago, Hazard, Lucas and Fabregas it was clear the club had put in bids despite ultimately being unsuccessful.
Can't see anything concrete with this at all.
Serie A is entertaining, the same way this World cup was. Same way as the World cup though, the teams are not that strong. You could also say imports from Serie A to England in recent times have been a bit poor. Nocerino at West Ham, Balotelli at City, Lamela at Spurs, Maicon at City, Osvaldo and Ramirez at Southampton, Giaccerini lost his place in the Italy squad etc. Generally outside Juventus and perhaps Roma (they have to show something in Europe, which I think they will) the other teams aren't very good. Napoli were shocking at the Emirates for example. Both Inter and AC would struggle badly in the PL with their squads as well.
Did Gill tell you that?
Fergie etc. said the money was gonna be re-invested in the team - it wasnt!
Dont be giving me all that servicing the debt nonsense - is a lame excuse some folk shite on about to make sense of us & Fergie being so stingey in the transfer market - always buying cheap alternatives. Its old hat jargon, and doesnt wash with the fans.
The club bring in record amounts of revenue every single season & at the end of this financial year - we're projected to bring in atleast £420m. Servicing the debt is not even an issue in terms of United's spending power..
Sorry, i dont mean to be in your face about it, just does my head in folk lettin United off the hook (regarding transfers) with the debt issue
its actually there in the accounts if you want to look them up. oh and theres a difference between revenue and profit
I understand where you are coming from but it is not like premiership teams have been going far in Europe recently apart from chelseas win which tbf nobody predicted as they were very poor that season. Each season maybe one premiership team (either united or Chelsea) will go far and that is it. The premiership is nowhere near as strong as it was from 06 to 09 but some people still act like it is.
The PL doesnt have the top three best teams (real, barca and bayern) but it is more competitive. arsenal, liverpool, man utd man city, spurs everton. In spain you have three and in germany you have two
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