A good point, which I'd agree with. It creates a problem with regards to marking.
Arturo Vidal
- Thread starter The Don
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A good point, which I'd agree with. It creates a problem with regards to marking.
Why would we want De Jong other than being a "tough tackler" - and dutch - that was what people wanted Fellaini for. He's been off form with Milan, and just because he's had a decent world cup doesn't mean we should be signing.
Might be because Real Madrid are really trying to swap Di Maria for Pogba. Let's hope not.
They'd ask for a a massive fee regardless of who was after Vidal because, unlike Costa, he is genuinely world class.
No he would not, he's isn't particularly athletic and is vastly inferior on the ball to Carrick. LVG wants his DM to drop between the CB's and be capable of playing out from the back which De jong is so incapable of that his Dutch team play with either 3 CBs or almost exclusively counter attacking football.
If we sign one of Vidal/Carvalho we won't have too (although I could see Van Gaal getting him anyway, considering he will undoubtedly be available cheap). Fellaini is not that type of player and anybody who had ever seen him play before we signed him would have known that. He was a strong attacker who made things awkward for the opposition because of his height. He was very poor technically and I and many others stated many times that we shouldn't even be considering him. The guy can't tackle, which is evident in the number of bookings he picks up. De Jong, though not great on the ball, is very good off it. De Jong's style doesn't really suit the Serie A. The Italian league is based on technique and possession, two areas where De Jong is pretty poor. The fast pace of the Premier League suits him far more. Considering the price and need for more players in that mould, I'd definitely buy him, even if I'd be looking to get other options also.
Well, when fit he starts for the Dutch (except when Strootman is fit) and is a pretty important part of the team. Van Gaal had to move Blind into his place because of his importance (despite how good Blind had played in the LWB slot). Of course he's inferior to Carrick on the ball, but his passing isn't the reason we'd buy him. If he plays for Van Gaal in his current team, why wouldn't Van Gaal want to bring him to Utd? It's not like he'd have a high wage or anything. Not sure why you have such a problem with this, he'd most likely be a backup and if not, just until January when we'd sign Strootman (assuming we haven't signed Vidal/Carvalho).
Didn't Chelsea pay Costs buy out clause and thats why athletics couldn't demand 50 million or some other daft figure?
We already have someone whose mediocre on the ball but can run around throwing himself into tackles and he cost 27m. De Jong plays in this team because as far as individual talent goes this team is the worst Dutch national squad in 20+ years.
Fellaini can't tackle, they are not remotely similar players. De Jong normally gets the ball when he tackles someone as opposed to Fellaini who just fouls people. Again, we have nobody in our team who is able to play the other cm role. Carrick cannot play there. The only player who could probably perform the role would be Jones, but I want him at cb, where he belongs.
exactly. Chelsea got fabregas for 30. Now fabregas would be in the same league as vidal. they are both good players. Hence vidal should be around the same price.
You have to factor in the fact that Barca wanted to sell Fabregas whereas Juve would rather keep Vidal. That affects the price.
Not to mention that Vidal is a better player too.
You could argue that Juve do want to sell, we showed our hand first with our enquiry though and they've set up shop with a hard stance, the best starting position for negotiations.
If we get into the ball park of what they are hoping for I'm sure they'll soften.
Maybe they are willing to sell, but actually keen to sell? Not so sure. In the context of a price negotiation that would make a difference. If Juve start next season with Vidal I believe they'll be happy, so they can hold out for more.
So what's the situation, when will he sign? 
So what's the situation, when will he sign?
Yeah, for Bayern Munich precisely 30 seconds after they are linked with him.
Carrick has successfully played the DLP or DM role since he arrived at United and been a huge part of what has been the most successful period in the clubs history. Herrera can play the other CM role alongside Carrick. You've made up some system in your head when frankly you have no clue how LVG intends to set us up even more so when he's on the record as saying he's not dogmatic about what formation he uses but instead will play what he feels suits the players he has available. There's zero to suggest we'll be playing a high press and to do so would require much more than De Jong or even someone in the mould of player you describe.
Ever heard of the phrase "tongue-in-cheek"?
Everyone else copped on it was only a bitta craic ffs!
Havent seen that pic in ages - class man
Hope you got my post was only just a bitta craic - unlike yer man Dazzdoorstopchallenge?!
that is part and parcel of my point. That man utd come looking for him, the selling club up there price. Vidal is worth in and around the 30ish mark. shaw was worth about 17 million at most. mata was about 26ish. but because it is man utd and we have such revenues the prices inflate. nani +30 million would be a good enough deal. id back away at 40 million.
You must have been smokin way too much crack back then & are on even harder stuff right now mate..
http://ukna.org/
Is this the 5 o'clock free crack giveaway!?
Crack in the pie? Obama likes this.
fellani was worth about 15 million at best
Nah you are just taking prices from 3-4 years go. Players who cost like 20-25M € a couple of years ago are now at 35-40M € at least for the big clubs. Prices are rising steep and fast.
It really has nothing to do with us. Vidal would cost a bomb no matter who gets them.
I agree with that but the point I was making is slightly different. Not the United tax, or added cost because a rich club is involved. But the fact that if a club has a player it likes and wants to keep it costs more to prize him away than a player who is surplus to requirements.
It's like selling a car. If I decided to sell my car, I might get a certain price for it. As it happens I don't want to sell my car. If someone knocked on the door and offered me that same amount I wouldn't sell. If they offered me twice that figure I probably would as I could buy a replacement and pocket the change.
That's slightly different to your point, which is if I was involved in a negotiation with a Saudi price for my car I'd probably try and squeeze more out of him, knowing he probably doesn't care that much what he pays. If I pushed too hard and it fell through I could look for another more modest buyer, or just keep my car, depending on how keen I was to sell it.
which is called inflation. hence why i have been saying the prices are inflationary. they have risen too fast. Fellaini is not worth 27 million. At best 16 million.
So Vidal (best box-box CM in the world) isnt worth £40m?
Suarez is goin for near £80m & they're both the same age & the best in the world in their positions. If we paid £50m - not too many United folk would be up in arms...
Fellaini's valuation - by your assessment, has risen by £1m in the space of 15 minutes. It doesnt bare thinkin about how much you think he's worth at midnight
i understand your point. But lets say valencia came for vidal. Now valencia are going for the same player that we are linked to. Because valencia are not as financially strong as us, the price is lower. There was a discussion on another thread about if barkley was playing in scotland how much would he be worth and the general consensus was about 14/15/16 million, but because he is in the PL, everton would command a fee of about 45 million for him.
The prices correlate to demand and more to the point who is demanding. So if there is demand for a player his price shoots, but it also shoots if those who are demanding are rich themselves.
these prices are mad. 42 million for ozil set a dangerous precedent. That guy was worth 25 million. Back when we over paid for fellani i thought this now will drive up the prices of players and that has turned out to be the case. Yes our revenues have grown, but the prices are not in line with the rising revenues. They have shot through the roof.
We have now over paid for mata, fellani and shaw. herrera was a buy out clause and he would be around that mark given his age and ability. The whole fee thing has gone mad and could back fire on clubs who spend too much. Luckily the PL is the dominant league in the world at the moment, but things can change.
I think if Valencia came in for Vidal with a lower figure Juve would say no thanks, it's not worth it, we'll keep him. Like when we sold Ronaldo. At 80m we had to sell. But that wasn't because it was Real. We wouldn't have sold him for less to Valencia. It's just only Real would pay that. Maybe only we or one or two other clubs have the clout to make Juve sell Vidal.
the prices are inflationary. second of all he is coming from a different league so we dont know how he would perform in the PL. 50 million is a huge risk.
Nah man, i think its happy hour - 2 for 1 & a free back-rub..
I agree with the general idea that prices are getting inflated and £50m would definitely be a large premium, but in the context of the top bands of players the fees for Ozil/Mata and Vidal at a potential £40m aren't that overboard and probably about right. Ozil/Mata are well established top class players. In fact tbh I find it a bit odd that you concluded earlier that Herrera's price is about right but those two and Vidal at 7-10m more is over the top given they're similar ages and far, far more established and proven.
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