Yep. And Keane/Scholes. Scholes was the more attack minded of the two but I wouldn't class Keane as a defensive midfielder. They both got up and down the pitch. Keane, in his early days in particular, was a great attacking threat.
Arturo Vidal
- Thread starter The Don
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Yep. And Keane/Scholes. Scholes was the more attack minded of the two but I wouldn't class Keane as a defensive midfielder. They both got up and down the pitch. Keane, in his early days in particular, was a great attacking threat.
Signing Herrera and Vidal raises questions for me because both play as #8. They are different types of players but for one role. Unless we turn to a 4-3-3 and waste the talent of Mata and maybe Rooney too I don't get what concept is behind that transfer activity. Is it just because Vidal is a world-class player and if he gets availble its a must to go for him?
Why not sign a #6 in addition to Herrera. That looks the more sensible acquisition position wise. Does LvG rate Carrick and someone else to back-up that highly that he sees no need for a #6?
Don't get me wrong, signing Vidal would be wonderful, I just try to understand what LvG intentions are.
Why not sign a #6 in addition to Herrera. That looks the more sensible acquisition position wise. Does LvG rate Carrick and someone else to back-up that highly that he sees no need for a #6?
Don't get me wrong, signing Vidal would be wonderful, I just try to understand what LvG intentions are.
Vidal is arguably the best CM in the world. He's so versatile and has so much in his locker that we would improve immensely with him in the side no matter what formation we'd choose to adopt.
There are few players I'd be comfortable paying £50m for, but Vidal's at the top of the list.
Yeah. Sholes did start much further forward though.
The beauty of having players that can do both sides of the job is, they can take turns depending on field positioning or the way the game is going.
It also means that if one is out, you haven't lost all your drive, and can use a variety of replacements alongside the remaining one.
Artoro Vidal will not be coming here despite what the papers say. We're signing De Jong once Holland are out of the World Cup and then Strootman in January and i'll be delighted with that....I just can't see Vidal coming here at all
However unlikely, signing Vidal could somewhat make up for the loss we've had on Pogba. I'd still prefer we throw £60m towards a Pogba signing, although I sincerely doubt he will ever return.
Just so he will want to leave again in 2 years? He is a mercenary prick.
Forget about Pogba, he's the past
This is the most likely scenario.
In 2012/2013 when Herrera was used as a CM/DM he was utilised on the right side of central midfield. His partners would either be Iturraspe or San Jose.
At Juve, Vidal tends to play right in the centre of a midfield 5. But with Chile, he has been used as a left sided CM.
So with that knowledge... you could very easily see a partnership of:
----Mata/Rooney----
---Vidal---Herrera---
Thing is we don't really know what tactics LvG will use at United.---Vidal---Herrera---
I guess it's time for Vidals agent to start using us so that he gets his client the monster deal at Real Madrid that he is looking for
Madrid arent going to buy Kroos and Vidal though are they? Not that I think we will get either of them.
I am with you on this, They seem to be the same type of players. i would assume that If we were to get both we will set up like this..
-------DM (Carrick?-----
----Vidal-----Herrera-----
But then again we are being linked with William Calvalho a lot too and he can play the 6 role of Carrick and that could mean a better midfield balance? Still means Mata/Rooney has to go wide or we line up in a diamond with no width. Not to mention I kind of hope Adnan is in his plans too.
All very interesting to see unfold.
Ahead of Messi, Robben, Ronaldo, Neymar etc?
No disrespect to you, but this was such a nothing post. All you are saying is Vidal is great and lets sign him, not answering the question the guy is asking at all.
Real Madrid already have their shiny toy for next season, and he's currently lighting up the World Cup for Columbia. Not to mention, they're strongly linked with Kroos.
£30mAt the end of the day, we're now in a situation where I trust the manager to make the right calls regarding the squad, I didn't have that faith with Moyes and under Sir Alex we all knew the midfield area was a weak point but he managed to get that extra 10% out of them to make us as a team cover for the weaknesses in midfield. Louis van Gaal isn't going to stand for a poor midfield, and I would be very happy with either of the options that we keep seeing in the press: Vidal would be a fantastic signing, but if he didn't come I would still be delighted with the scenario of signing De Jong and bringing Strootman in in January. Obviously, it could all be hogwash and we could pull another out of nowhere signing like we did with Herrera, but if not, I'd be happy with either outcome.
It all comes down to trusting the manager and definitely trust him and am buying into what we are trying to do.
It all comes down to trusting the manager and definitely trust him and am buying into what we are trying to do.
Yes. I much prefer hardcore team players to individualists, and we need a top class CM more than what any of those players offer.
I object to the premise of the question, which seems to be that CMs are either "#8's" or "#6's". It's terribly simplistic, and neither Herrera nor Vidal fit either of those labels, but that doesn't mean they can't work well together. And buying Vidal doesn't mean we won't sign a DM too (and it seems quite likely we'll sign Strootman in January/next summer), and in either case we still have Carrick.
I'm saying our midfield is shit and Vidal is the best midfielder in the world. It's a no-brainer really.
Too much money for a 27 year old! Too much money for a 18 year old! You aren't going to get 24 year old world class players leaving clubs regularly. There is always a gamble involved in a transfers but that's how it works.
I agree. In 4-3-3 both CM's have more defensive duties and they don't spend too much time in final third. I don't see Mata doing the job in both directions. He needs more freedom to play his game, the freedom he get's playing behind the striker in 4-2-3-1.
After years of not investing in midfield and having it as the single weakest part of the squad people are STILL moaning about the price what the hell am I reading?!
Exhibit A: We are NOT in the CL any player will be apprehensive of joining as there are little to no guarantees that we will get it the following year unless we spend to improve hence wages will be higher than normal.
Exhibit B: Currently our midfield is crocked at best and no amount of wonderkids from Bilbao will help that, he cant run it alone. Our competition so far from other teams lines up like this. Arsenal: Arteta, Wilshire, Carzorla, Diaby, Flamini and Ramsey. City: Yaya, Fernando, Fernandinho, Silva, Garcia, Demechelis, Rodwell. Chelsea: Fabregas, Matic, Ramires, Mikel, Oscar. Liverpool: Henderson, Gerrard, Suso, Coutinho, Sterling. HOW THE HELL DO WE HOPE TO COMPETE IF WE DONT SPEND THE MONEY.
Exhibit C: We are on the crux, this next season is more important than many before it, we either fade away to become the new Liverpool or jump back to the top, that alone is worth 100s of millions. Let alone 50m for Vidal.
Exhibit D: Vidal posses the kind of skill and presence unseen in the PL, he would dominate other teams and raise our game to become one of the best midfields in the the country.
Exhibit A: We are NOT in the CL any player will be apprehensive of joining as there are little to no guarantees that we will get it the following year unless we spend to improve hence wages will be higher than normal.
Exhibit B: Currently our midfield is crocked at best and no amount of wonderkids from Bilbao will help that, he cant run it alone. Our competition so far from other teams lines up like this. Arsenal: Arteta, Wilshire, Carzorla, Diaby, Flamini and Ramsey. City: Yaya, Fernando, Fernandinho, Silva, Garcia, Demechelis, Rodwell. Chelsea: Fabregas, Matic, Ramires, Mikel, Oscar. Liverpool: Henderson, Gerrard, Suso, Coutinho, Sterling. HOW THE HELL DO WE HOPE TO COMPETE IF WE DONT SPEND THE MONEY.
Exhibit C: We are on the crux, this next season is more important than many before it, we either fade away to become the new Liverpool or jump back to the top, that alone is worth 100s of millions. Let alone 50m for Vidal.
Exhibit D: Vidal posses the kind of skill and presence unseen in the PL, he would dominate other teams and raise our game to become one of the best midfields in the the country.
Wait let me clarify, If you had the money to buy Vidal or Messi/Ronaldo, you would buy Vidal because he is a hardcore team player?
RE the numbers are they not pretty defined? they are outside of England anyway.
The same "balance" you referred to in the post I quoted.
The common consensus when SAF retired - which he even put in his autobiography - was that the squad was in a strong place and was in need of maybe a couple of high quality additions. For every Giggs, Rio and Vidic, there is a Januzaj, Smalling or Jones coming through and getting better year on year. Buying in a team full of expensive foreign stars will slow down their development, and there isn't even any guarantee that these players will be as good as some on here are expecting.
I am delighted for us to finally be investing in the squad as there have been some obvious weaknesses. The Shaw and Hererra signings were fantastic pieces of business for us, but now some of the fans are going into full muppet overdrive wanting us to sign 6+ first teamers for £30m apiece, which I don't think is the way to go. Pretty simple really.
I am sorry but when you list our competition like that, you can't help but laugh at Liverpools. But they have added two I think, still pretty weak.
Of course yes, I mean Liverpool will find themselves a bit stuck when it comes to the big boys, I mean were talking about every team improving, City dont really need to, Chelsea have added a couple of great players and Arsenal will be there abouts with a couple of signings. The kind of players Liverpool are going for are smart but it all has the feeling of them fading away. The lallana deal is good but has the same feeling as Henderson/Downing.
You couldn't get to the second part of that sentence?
Lumping midfielders into one of those two categories is simplistic. Vidal has the defensive discipline and the work-rate to work well alongside another defensively adept box-to-box midfielder, I think.
My Bayern got linked with him for the case of a Kroos exit. We all should wait. One move and the whole market will react.
This is exactly the type of transfer we're linked with consistently all summer but never sign. He'll go to Madrid, or Bayern, or Chelsea. You know, one of those teams that actually ends up buying players like this.
The common consensus was that we had a paper thin midfield - hence the club trying to bring players in last year. Investment so far has been to find a long term replacement for a 34 year old left back who is almost finished and a midfielder who should address some of the issues we've seen over the last few years.
You can bang on about what Fergie says all you like - he's gone. The case for Smalling and Jones is bizzare given that Fergie failed to give them regular starts at centre half. Perhaps if he had LVG would be confident enough not to go for a centre half at all.
And I'm not referring to "6 players in" or anything like that, I'm questioning why anyone would think it unwise to spend £45 million on arguably one if the worlds best midfielders when that's the exact area in which we have issues, and have had for a good few years.
As for "balance" I still have no idea what you mean. The club has lost very good players, and there are a number who have had a chance and simply don't look up to the job and could be moved on. Jones and Smalling might do well, but on recent form that's not a given, and they don't address issues in central midfield.
We need quality in key areas - that is blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain who watched us last year. If wanting the club to bring in quality players and being happy that the club are showing a bit if ambition makes me a "muppet" then so be it.
If we were managed by fergie that is absolutely true but LvG and Eddy seem to have different plans altogether.
This, unfortunately
If we sign Vidal i can see us winning the league. We would without question have the strongest XI with City.
And Chelsea.
Bayern? Really they normally just buy the best in Germany. Pretty much what we do in England.
Robben, Ribery, Martinez, Tiago. They do make big exceptions.
Similar i suppose, but you don't really see us buying directly from City that much, i.e direct rivals. (Mata and RvP aside due to circumstances) Bayern regularly nab players from Leverkusen, Dortmund etc. Much more of a rich get richer thing in their case i think.
NOT.GOING.TO.HAPPEN
Not really. I could see why you get that, but, he still turned down Bayern to join Juventus, at a stage where Juventus hadnt won anything, and wasnt even in Europe. And lets be real here, Juventus didnt have the money to give him a huge wage, so he didnt choose them for the money, like all the Arsenal players have done at City. And he's been one of the star players in them taking home 3 home division titles, so wouldnt really call him mercenary.
Atleast not in the ways you see players joining City, PSG, Chelsea, Monaco.
Actually, I'd rather call him adventurous. He chose to join Juventus without Champions League or Euro League. He did so, because he believed in the project, which is obvious for everyone, and now he's probably at a stage where he needs a new challenge, as Juventus wont be beated in the home division, and havent shown much pedigree in Europe.
If/When we return to the Champions League, I'm pretty sure we will do better than Juventus have done the past 3 seasons.
I no its early doors but i feel that we need to get this done quick.
The longer it drags on the less chance of us signing him in my eyes.
We need to get it done before Madrid sign Kroos and Bayern come knocking (is Vidal even a Guadiola type midfielder, im not sure)
anyway, Herrera and Vidal linning up together in midfield is the last thing i think of at night, and the first thing i think of in the morning. Cant wait to see if Woody can pull it off.
The longer it drags on the less chance of us signing him in my eyes.
We need to get it done before Madrid sign Kroos and Bayern come knocking (is Vidal even a Guadiola type midfielder, im not sure)
anyway, Herrera and Vidal linning up together in midfield is the last thing i think of at night, and the first thing i think of in the morning. Cant wait to see if Woody can pull it off.
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