He got away with being "good" in his first couple of years with us by having a quick first step and a knack for being in the right position. Other than that, he can't score more than 5 yards away from goal, is really poor at holding up the ball, and doesn't beat players with his quick first step like he used to. Put it altogether, and he's a pretty useless player - like he was today. If we can sell him in the next couple of weeks for a decent price then just get it done. We're just starting a long-term rebuilding process and there have to be ruthless cuts being made starting NOW. Cut the deadwood and move forward, and Hernandez is certainly a part of that deadwood. Not good enough, and hasn't been in years.
Arturo Vidal
- Thread starter The Don
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Why do we all believe Fletcher is this defensive midfielder who can sit. He rarely tackles, intercepts or anything defensive. For me playing Vidal today instead of Fletcher would have had no worse impact as a defensive unit but would've increased our threat considerably. Fletcher had one good season when he was 25 in peak fitness for him with bags of stamina and happened to play the man marking role and general midfield spoiler to perfection.
He can't do that now, his pace has gone along with his stamina. This is understandable due to his long term break from the game but he is 30 now and for me should never starting for us. Carrick is twice the player but at 33 is another who should be used as back up only especially if we have any thoughts of winning league titles.
We need to be aiming higher our midfield sucks ass. Get a solid back three with at least one top class centre half then the defensive holding type midfielder is not required.
Whereas Shane Long was tearing up the premier league last year? Hernandez is worth closer to £20m than £10m, no doubt about it.
However his transfer fee is dictated by his value to us and his value to his new club. Not how much Shane Long was sold for.
Shane Long scored a hefty total of 4 goals in 15 games last season. If Southampton can pay 12 for him, they could have easily paid more for Chicharito. It was because Chicharito didn't want to join, they turned to Long. 15m is minimum value of Chicharito, bad form not withstanding.
He is not on Rooney/RvP levels salary for it to be an issue. The annual difference between Long's and his salary is less than 2m euro annually. A club will hardly think about couple of million euros when they get such upgrade.
I'd say he is definitely worth more than £8m but I think we need to forget what the likes of Shane long cost, the wages he would be on would probably be a third of what Hernandez is on. It would also be like saying Andy Carroll cost £35m so Hernandez should be worth £40m at least. British clubs tend to stiff each other big time with prices. The European clubs which would be his likely destination would probably not have the finances to pay anything higher than 20m euros if that.
At the end of the day he is fourth choice striker for us and he keeps hinting at wanting to start games or about who knows what the future holds. This obviously means he is unhappy with his back up roll and open to moving. This straight away gives any potential buyers advantage. Do we want to keep a player who earns decent wages sat on the bench unhappy and stagnating. He has already lost his starting place for Mexico due to never playing and when he does start he tends to be awful. I believe the club would value him around £12m which would provide a 50% profit on what we paid for him. His marketability is very good in North and South America but I feel that will just help him personally when discussing wages/image rights etc with potential buyer and not so much add to any fee we would get. If we can use him in any Vidal deal then we must, signing a player of Vidal class when desperate should not be jeopardised by overpricing a player who will rarely start for us.
With the number of players we're expected to release we'll hit similar problems to the ones Real Madrid had in 2009 and 2010 - high paid players who everyone knows you want to sell. In their case they did discount deals on players like Robben and Sneidjer, and they subsidised wages to let Raul go.
City had similar problems with some of their sales.
If there's actual competition for a player it's different, but if we were getting multiple bids for Hernandez or Nani for example I think we would have already heard something.
City had similar problems with some of their sales.
If there's actual competition for a player it's different, but if we were getting multiple bids for Hernandez or Nani for example I think we would have already heard something.
Not sure what you mean by the last part really mate. Asking him to play as a holding midfielder would be restricting him to a role - the holding midfielder role. All that has been said is that a holding midfielder role doesn't get the best out of him. If you disagree that's fine but frankly I've not got the slightest doubt that he is best as a box to box #8.
And as has been said numerous times being able to play at right back, centre back or sweeper is not too relevant when talking about his best position. There isn't a person in the thread who is trying to portray Vidal as a limited player by saying he's better as a #8 than as a sweeper or right back. It's possible to recognise Vidal's versatility whilst being aware that he has a best position. In fact if you re-read my post I actually explicitly state that he could shield the back four, it's just a waste of his ability.
I'm aware that Pirlo plays for Juventus mate, the point stands that Vidal does not play as a holding midfielder. Whether it's Pirlo or Marchisio he plays ahead of both contributing offensively as a proper box to box midfielder. It's nothing like the role that is being discussed in this thread. Your comment that it's the same because both teams play 3-5-2 does not have much weight IMO considering the seperate versions of the system that are being used - which are significantly different - and Vidal's different role in both of those teams.
It's just a less extreme version of the Chile example, suggesting its the same because Chile and United play a 3-5-2 when for Chile Vidal played as a #10 ahead of two midfielders but here he would be playing as the deepest midfielder in the team.
Like I said most of the concerns that have been raised have been valid but perhaps slightly overplayed. I agree with the view that telling him to sit deep would be a waste - not because he can't do it before you respond - but because Vidal has much more to offer than that. If you sign the best midfielder in the world for £40-50million then we should be playing him in his best role IMO.
But I don't think it even needs to come to that because I think playing him next to Herrera as two box to box midfielders would be fine in a 3-5-2. There is enough defensive protection there to make that work and I don't see the requirement for a holder in those circumstances, particulalry if we push our line up 10 or so yards.
We really need a top bracket midfielder and Vidal fits the bill. I really hope we just pay what it takes and get him.
At this stage, I'm so sick of the mediocrity in midfield that I wouldn't be bothered if we spent fifty million on him, crazy as that is. We need it fixed.
At this stage, I'm so sick of the mediocrity in midfield that I wouldn't be bothered if we spent fifty million on him, crazy as that is. We need it fixed.
If Juve watched today's game they will put an extra £10 million onto his value and say no thanks to Hernandez.
I still doubt if LVG actually wants him tho.
I still doubt if LVG actually wants him tho.
Tuttosport are reporting that Juve wants €40m + Nani, Hernandez...
That's a combined deal of like, €65m... A bit excessive. If they want those 2 who I'd say are combined around €25m, then a fee of 25-30m would seem more fair.
What's the point of Juve demanding when we clearly aren't offering?
It is always a bid is in a couple of days.
I wonder if he'll want to be part of a side clearly in transition, in what should be the prime of his career.
I dont understand people who think the fee is excessive. Perhaps it is because a lot of people have not seen Vidal play at all or not seen much of him but he is without a doubt one of the top 3 CMs in the world. In 2012/13 he was the very best imo and last year I think only Yaya was slightly ahead of him and even that could be argued. We have been lacking a world class CM ever since Scholes and we all know that having one would transform our team yet people are talking about an excessive fee. The club is desperate for a player like Vidal and I believe that if he can regain his form pre injury it could be our best purchase since Cristiano. 60m Euros + Chicha is a great deal imo for all sides involved and I hope it gets done, im skeptical but theres a glimmer of hope.
I'll be aghast if Vidal joins united. United takes a age over transfers it seems, Serie A starts in two weeks, so if Juventus sells him, they'll obviously want enough time to find a replacement. Be objective about this: why would Vidal in his prime leave a club in to champions league, likely to win Serie A, to join a club with no champions league football, and with no guarantee they'll be back in the top 4 in England let alone the title race?
Vidal will nearly double his pay-packet coming to Utd, which is one thing that would be appealing.
Actually these sort of results should spur him to come to OT. I mean, who would stop him from a first team place? Fellaini?
Enough to give up Champions League football, and possibly a title challenge, and that's just this season?
If that was true then Leicester would have got the best of players. In fact, having better players in the team attract better players. Not the other way round.
He's not gonna win the UCL with Juve anytime soon with Allegri in charge and who's to say we wont challenge for the title with Vidal, Di Maria etc. Also he will have the chance to test himself in arguably the most competitive league playing for one of the most prestigious clubs on the planet.
If they are right it sounds close. If Nani and Hernández are happy to go there a deal will be found.
This feels a lot like Sneijdergate tbh. Player wants to come, we want him but deny our desire in public. He'll just end up staying 
.
.Leicester do not have United's prestige and they can't pay 200k a week.
I would be terrified to join United during Veron time. I mean he was the Johnny foreigner coming into a world class midfield which was mainly made up of homegrown talent who had been playing together since they were 14 (Scholes, Beckham and Giggs). His signing meant pushing one of the guys (possibly Scholes) out of position. I am sure that his arrival was perceived as Obama's turning to one of the tea party meetings
Vidal would be the catalyst of United's revival. He could be the Cantona of this generation ie the missing piece that changed things around. That's quite an interesting prospect isn't it?
Tuttosport unfortunately are not the most reliable source around.
All of what you're saying is correct, but its made on the assumption that Vidal would play the holding role here. I think that's a wrong assumption. If pre season and yesterday was anything to go by, neither of the central midfielders were playing the holding midfielder role.
Money?
Not every footballer is seduced by money.
So, tomorrow?
Loads are. And Vidal could well be one of them.
I doubt he'd give up what he's got at Juventus, to join a side so clearly in need of a makeover just for some more money.
If they are willing to take nani and Hernandez, and their wages, off us then I'd see that as a bonus. Get the deal done and see if they want Ando too
Playing for the biggest club in the world in front of 75000 ppl certainly holds some weight as well
That should be a good enough reason.
Serie A is a very average league nowadays, do you think winning the league for a 3rd time in a row easily will appeal that much to Vidal? If we meet Juve's valuation and give him £10m a year wages he will be a United player.
I think it's clear Vidal wants to come. Otherwise he would have flat out denied it rather than pissing about.
The whole Premier League thing will be a big incentive for some players. Big grounds and big crowds while a lot of Serie A is struggling. Juve's average home crowd is 37k. A different challenge too. He can be a star at United as well, key man in the (dreaded word) project rather than "the one we'll sell so we can keep Pogba and buy a winger."
I believe Vidal won't be coming cause we aren't prepared to pay what Juve want from him. Simple as that. Unless they drop their valuation, I don't believe it's not gonna happen.
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