Arturo Vidal

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Regarding the discussion of a potential Vidal Herrera partnership: Based on his previous statements,surely van Gaal will change the formation to 4-3-3 should we get Vidal and Strootman or similar type of players in, and when the squad is otherwise suited for a 4-3-3? So no point in discussing a Herrera Vidal midfield two IMO.

In a couple of years when van Persie's feet are gone, I'd think we'll set out with something like this.

------------Strootman---------
-----Vidal----------Herrera-----
Januzaj----Rooney----Welbeck

Only problem is Mata and Kagawa. Hopefully they can fit in somewhere in this formation. The rest of the bunch have either had their chance or are past it.
 
Raoul said:
I'm a firm believer that if we wanted him and he wanted to join us, we would buy him. If Van Gaal was adamant that he wanted him, he would be a United player right now - irrespective of price (excepting of course Ronaldo/Bale type money).
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Well you may be right but I don't think so personally, Juve want a big fee to make the deal happen, at least £10M in excess of what we have previously paid in my view, and that is why, along with his knee, we have been waiting.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Carrick is always a passenger these days. We need to stop accommodating the passengers. In that midfield, Vidal and Herrera would do all the work, and Carrick's passenger ways would be exposed vs the big clubs (like always).
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Well you're clearly not a fan of Carrick but to call him a passenger is way to ott. Could do more to impose himself sure but whatever our midfield did do positively last season to help us came from Carrick as it has been pretty much for far too long.

Theon said:
Aye, could definitely see it being tried out at some point mate. I guess the result would be some sort of 3-5-2/diamond hybrid depending on how Carrick plays the role.

Jones could presumably play that position as well because he's stepped into midfield before. I imagine playing that way requires a lot of tactical intelligence in terms of deciding when to step up and when to stay in the back three. I also imagine it requires great understanding between the rest of the centre halves, because if Carrick/Jones leave the defensive line and step out then the other two would need to cover that space.
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I think Jones could do that role one day, don't think his passing is quite there yet and as you said not quite got that experience yet. Plus I think with his pace he's handy having to run in to the flanks to help cover the fullback. With Carrick though I think his greater ability to play any type of pass in that position will force teams to push up more on him and then that should create that little more space for the midfielders.

But yeah that hybrid system was pretty much exactly what I was thinking, if we play this way think it's the best way unless we buy two defenders
 
PedroMendez said:
I get the feeling that the majority of posters in this muppetry have seen less than 10 matches of Vidal.
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By the same token, seen one to many matches like today and come to the conclusion anyone is better than this shite.
 
FujiVice said:
By the same token, seen one to many matches like today and come to the conclusion anyone is better than this shite.
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he would be a fantastic signing. Someone actually wrote that he is an offensive midfielder. Its just stupendously ignorant. I know that he has many offensive qualities, but he also played as fullback in a back4 (leverkusen), as fullback/centerhalf in Chiles system and as sweeper/central CB in Juve´s back 3. He played pretty damn well in all of these roles and yet people doubt that he can play as central midfielder in a 532 or as defensive midfielder in a 433/451. Whatever midfield we are going to play, he would walk right into it. Its actually very likely that he would be also our best fullback and second best CB.
 
If we get Benatia, it might have a positive effect on this deal too.
 
PedroMendez said:
he would be a fantastic signing. Someone actually wrote that he is an offensive midfielder. Its just stupendously ignorant. I know that he has many offensive qualities, but he also played as fullback in a back4 (leverkusen), as fullback/centerhalf in Chiles system and as sweeper/central CB in Juve´s back 3. He played pretty damn well in all of these roles and yet people doubt that he can play as central midfielder in a 532 or as defensive midfielder in a 433/451. Whatever midfield we are going to play, he would walk right into it. Its actually very likely that he would be also our best fullback and second best CB.
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Yeah thank you, that's exactly what I said a couple of times here too. He was a fantastic number 6 for a long time in his career, but some people here described him as number 10 and said we should rather sign Strootman (who is a very similiar player type, but Vidal is just better at everything) or Khedira, because they are more defensive-minded. But I would rather play Vidal as number 6 or defender than the other 2 mentioned players. Alongside Herrera and with a back 5 behind him there is no reason why it shouldn't work.
 
Result like today's will no doubt not help convincing a player like Vidal to join us unless it's all about the money. One season without CL is bad enough but if we can't beat Swansea at home in our first game of the new season after last years feck up alarms bells would surely ring. I would be wanting assurances if I was him that others top class signings were also being made especially in defence. Heaven help us if we lose next week and still haven't secured any signings.
 
PedroMendez said:
he would be a fantastic signing. Someone actually wrote that he is an offensive midfielder. Its just stupendously ignorant. I know that he has many offensive qualities, but he also played as fullback in a back4 (leverkusen), as fullback/centerhalf in Chiles system and as sweeper/central CB in Juve´s back 3. He played pretty damn well in all of these roles and yet people doubt that he can play as central midfielder in a 532 or as defensive midfielder in a 433/451. Whatever midfield we are going to play, he would walk right into it. Its actually very likely that he would be also our best fullback and second best CB.
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It's funny considering that Juve and Chile play 532 as well, or 352, depending on where you count the wing backs. If anything, he has the advantage as he's used to those systems.
 
NJM78 said:
Result like today's will no doubt not help convincing a player like Vidal to join us unless it's all about the money. One season without CL is bad enough but if we can't beat Swansea at home in our first game of the new season after last years feck up alarms bells would surely ring. I would be wanting assurances if I was him that others top class signings were also being made especially in defence. Heaven help us if we lose next week and still haven't secured any signings.
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Or, or he could be convinced that he is the missing piece in the puzzle if he is coming with Benatia and Di Maria ...lol . I'm sure he knows that he will be getting his last big contract and I doubt Juventus have the ability or inclination to take him into the Yaya/Rooney wage bracket. We have some space on the wage bill after the players we let go and others most likely to leave .
 
itso 7 said:
Or, or he could be convinced that he is the missing piece in the puzzle if he is coming with Benatia and Di Maria ...lol . I'm sure he knows that he will be getting his last big contract and I doubt Juventus have the ability or inclination to take him into the Yaya/Rooney wage bracket. We have some space on the wage bill after the players we let go and others most likely to leave .
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I agree, not many players that know full well they will walk into the first team at a club like United, much as we aren't great right now, if knows he is to be a key part of the team that makes us rise again then what a draw that must be, plus 200 k per week obviously helps!
 
itso 7 said:
Or, or he could be convinced that he is the missing piece in the puzzle if he is coming with Benatia and Di Maria ...lol . I'm sure he knows that he will be getting his last big contract and I doubt Juventus have the ability or inclination to take him into the Yaya/Rooney wage bracket. We have some space on the wage bill after the players we let go and others most likely to leave .
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Exactly those players you mention he'd believe collectively with the players already here like RVP, Mata, Rooney, Adnan etc it's a team that's going places. On his own though he may think I'm good but I'm not miracle worker!
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
I agree, not many players that know full well they will walk into the first team at a club like United, much as we aren't great right now, if knows he is to be a key part of the team that makes us rise again then what a draw that must be, plus 200 k per week obviously helps!
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Especially the £200k+/week.
 
Vidal would be brilliant in every way possible.

Not only is he very much able to play a holding role, this guy can play pretty much any role in CM.
And for the ppl that act like Herrera is going to play every match: I love the lad but he is still unproven und a young lad that we shouldnt put too much pressure on. We are asking him to carry our whole freaking CM in his first season here ffs. Let someone like Vidal do that job and let Herrera, or Fletch, or Clev or freaking Fellaini play alongside him, depending on the opposition.

The only concerning thing would be his fitness and his knee.

I really hope we are in for him, I sincerely do.
 
Earthquake said:
It's funny considering that Juve and Chile play 532 as well, or 352, depending on where you count the wing backs. If anything, he has the advantage as he's used to those systems.
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It's a different position to what was being discussed here though IMO. For neither Chile or Juventus has Vidal's best position been a holding midfielder next to someone like Herrera.

In Chiles 3-5-2 at the World Cup Vidal played in a similar position as Mata as their number 10.

Juventus play a different version of 3-5-2 than the more common United and Chile version - instead of CM/CM/AM Juve play DM/CM/CM with Vidal the most advanced again of the three.

Obviously if we signed Vidal he could come here and play as a #6 as the most defensive midfielder, he's clearly good enough to do that. I think people are just questioning spending £40-50million on him and then not playing him in his best role. Or alternatively they're questioning buying him and letting him play offensively next to Herrera in which case there are worries that it would leave us too open on the break.

I think both concerns are fair although they might be getting overplayed. I certainly wouldn't restrict Vidal to a holding role not because he can't do it but because it's a bit of a waste. More than anything else I think United are lacking drive and impetus offensively from midfield and freeing up Vidal would provide that. He's too good to sit and shield the back four.

On the latter concern I think playing a 3-5-2 removes some of the danger of having no dedicated holder and then tactically by pushing the defensive line up 10 yards or so would restrict that space and somewhat remove the need for one anyway.
 
Theon said:
It's a different position to what was being discussed here though IMO. For neither Chile or Juventus has Vidal's best position been a holding midfielder next to someone like Herrera.

In Chiles 3-5-2 at the World Cup Vidal played in a similar position as Mata as their number 10.

Juventus play a different version of 3-5-2 than the more common United and Chile version - instead of CM/CM/AM Juve play DM/CM/CM with Vidal the most advanced again of the three.

Obviously if we signed Vidal he could come here and play as a #6 as the most defensive midfielder, he's clearly good enough to do that. I think people are just questioning spending £40-50million on him and then not playing him in his best role. Or alternatively they're questioning buying him and letting him play offensively next to Herrera in which case there are worries that it would leave us too open on the break.

I think both concerns are fair, although they might be getting overplayed. I certainly wouldn't restrict Vidal to a holding role, not because he can't do it but because it's a bit of a waste. More than anything else I think United are lacking drive and impetus offensively from midfield and freeing up Vidal would provide that. He's too good to sit and shield the back four.

On the latter concern I think playing a 3-5-2 removes some of the danger of having no dedicated holder and then tactically by pushing the defensive line up 10 yards or so would restrict that space and somewhat remove the need for one anyway.
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Tbh playing 5-3-2 with a number 10 like Mata is unique anyway and a bit shitty.
I'd gladly drop Mata at this stage and play Vidal, Herrera and Fletch or another holding midfielder in the midfield 3 with Rooney and RvP or Welbeck up top.
 
Theon said:
It's a different position to what was being discussed here though IMO. For neither Chile or Juventus has Vidal's best position been a holding midfielder next to someone like Herrera.

In Chiles 3-5-2 at the World Cup Vidal played in a similar position as Mata as their number 10.

Juventus play a different version of 3-5-2 than the more common United and Chile version - instead of CM/CM/AM Juve play DM/CM/CM with Vidal the most advanced again of the three.

Obviously if we signed Vidal he could come here and play as a #6 as the most defensive midfielder, he's clearly good enough to do that. I think people are just questioning spending £40-50million on him and then not playing him in his best role. Or alternatively they're questioning buying him and letting him play offensively next to Herrera in which case there are worries that it would leave us too open on the break.

I think both concerns are fair although they might be getting overplayed. I certainly wouldn't restrict Vidal to a holding role not because he can't do it but because it's a bit of a waste. More than anything else I think United are lacking drive and impetus offensively from midfield and freeing up Vidal would provide that. He's too good to sit and shield the back four.

On the latter concern I think playing a 3-5-2 removes some of the danger of having no dedicated holder and then tactically by pushing the defensive line up 10 yards or so would restrict that space and somewhat remove the need for one anyway.
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Vidal has played to a high level at fullback/wingback, sweeper, centre back, defensive mid, centre mid and attacking mid in both of those 352's, fairly safe to imagine he'd fit just fine in Van Gaal's 352, doing any and every job asked of him.

Also, in Juve's system, the DM is Pirlo, who's job isn't defending, both Pogba and Vidal have to be very defensively aware in addition to their standard roles, so Pirlo is free to dictate play and take risks.

It's not about restricting him to a role.
 
Godfather said:
Tbh playing 5-3-2 with a number 10 like Mata is unique anyway and a bit shitty.
I'd gladly drop Mata at this stage and play Vidal, Herrera and Fletch or another holding midfielder in the midfield 3 with Rooney and RvP or Welbeck up top.
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That's probably why Valdivia doesn't start all the time despite the fact that he is a really good player. But if we had the chance to sign Vidal i would prefer to see us play in 4-2-3-1
 
Godfather said:
Vidal would be brilliant in every way possible.

Not only is he very much able to play a holding role, this guy can play pretty much any role in CM.
And for the ppl that act like Herrera is going to play every match: I love the lad but he is still unproven und a young lad that we shouldnt put too much pressure on. We are asking him to carry our whole freaking CM in his first season here ffs. Let someone like Vidal do that job and let Herrera, or Fletch, or Clev or freaking Fellaini play alongside him, depending on the opposition.

The only concerning thing would be his fitness and his knee.

I really hope we are in for him, I sincerely do.
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Amen, and I'm not a religious kinda guy!

I'm a patient man, but my patience is not infinite. Let's stope the navel-gazing and sign this fekker next week.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Hernandez is worth about 8 million tops.
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No he's not. He's worth a lot more than that. In a world where you can buy a Championship player for 10 million + and Shane Long for 12 million, then someone like Hernandez (also need to factor his marketability into it all) is worth more than 8 million.
 
pseudo_canadian said:
Vidal is absolutely world class and those who are saying he wouldn't fit in our midfield have clearly never seen him play. He's on an entirely other level with his incredible work-rate and tempo with the ball going forward. Him alone would immediately solve a lot of issues in the center of the midfield.
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This, I've always believed getting Vidal would have an RVP type of impact on the entire team but instead it would come from the MF rather than striker.
 
For a bottom half side while a good goal poacher Hernandez wouldn't bring as much to a side as someone like Long so anything approaching 15m would be very good business but we shouldn't be disappointed with less
 
gulli_G said:
Thats not how it works, Chicharito is on higher wages and has been off form over a year
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He is top poacher, one of the best about, doesn't fit LvG system but would fit in somewhere and get lots of goals, he deserves a high wage, although I will concede this knocks his price, but he has to go for £12 million minimum.
 
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