But doing it over half a season isn't doesn't mean as much as you are making out. The more points you get in a season the fewer chances you have to get more, and the more chances you have to get less next season.
Arteta Vs EtH
- Thread starter Yorkeontop
- Start date
Never in a million years. We finished second under Solskjaer and Mourinho, what do you remember about those challenges really? I'll never forget yesterday's game.
Coming second is fecking pointless
Yeah, but with Arsenal, their second placed finishes have been earth shatteringly amazing.
It's like Liverpool's 96 points or whatever. Incredibly impressive in itself but ultimately shite for a fan. Maybe Arsenal fans in general and the Arsenal fans on Redcafe feel differently, if so fair play to them but I never enjoyed any of the seasons we finished second or third, despite them obviously being littered with good performances and some good results.
We're Manchester United and they're Arsenal. That should explain the difference
Nah, again, the point is less about finishing second and more about being a top 5 side in europe with real aspirations of winning either the league or the CL, vs hoping the new owners aren't incompetents like the old ones
But apparently the FA Cup is actually a big deal to United fans, so it trumps a good to great season(being happy and excited about your team for 10 months) and great prospects. Which is baffling to me but then I'm not english nor a fan of an english side
I like this
Depends on if Arsenal turn this progress into silverware. Look at Spurs for example. Do you think their fans spend much time reminiscing about finishing second and losing the CL final under Poch?
United fans will remember yesterday for a long time, especially those who were at the game. Maybe it's an English thing and that tribalism aspect.
Sure, but the there's silverware and silverware. If it were the Community Shield would you even care? (You don't, as evidence by people saying Arsenal went trophyless this season)
Mm. Maybe who you beat and how you beat them on the way also plays its part I guess? Even if it's just the FA Cup, those wins are still pretty memorable in fairness
We did greatly enjoy smashing the Negreira club at their crib last season. Didn't make up in any way shape or form for the season, but it was sweet and we keep the fond memory
(we also care about that win over winning the actual cup, because the CdR very much is a mickey mouse trophy as far as we're concerned)Who?!!
I think in the end how United fans remember yesterday will also depend on how the club progresses from here. The match reminded me a lot of Arsenal's FA Cup win over Chelsea in 2017 after they had won the league. In both cases the league winners were dominant sides then sort of didn't show up in the FA Cup final and were deservedly beaten by derby rivals who were coming off disappointing league seasons. Arsenal fans still remember that cup win fondly, but you can't get around the fact that it was a moment of brightness in the middle of a very dark period. There's only so much you can get out of "Wow, remember when we beat Chelsea to win the FA Cup with that banter side? And then slid further into mediocrity over the next few years?"
That's not to take away from yesterday being a great win for United. But I don't think FA Cup wins end up being enduring high points for big clubs unless they're part of a larger story of progress toward something bigger (a story obviously yet to be written in United's case).
When did Arsenal become a top 5 side in Europe?
This past season. Last two really, probably, but this season, yeah. I say top 5, you could say top 7 if you want, same thing. Point is they are one of the very best teams around and should start next season with realistic goals of winning either the PL or CL. They're there
Arsenals best hope of winning the league, is to be where they were for the last 3 games this season and hope the team in front slips up on the last day.
You see what happens when they have it in their own hands - they Arsenal it.
You see what happens when they have it in their own hands - they Arsenal it.
Yeah, top 5 side in Europe getting knocked out of the last 16 in the EL and last 8 of the CL.
Yeah, because great teams never lose in cup competitions
that's why arguably the greatest club side of all time won 4 CL in a row and then 3 in a row...oh wait, they didn't. Name 5 or 7 better sides than Arsenal over the past 2 seasons thenHe won the league once and he made 3 CL finals, winning one of them, that’s a better european record than City under Pep in the same time. God knows how much i despise him but you can’t compare Arteta and Arsenal to what the scousers achieved over the last few years.
Yeah, because great teams never lose in cup competitions
Real Madrid, Manchester City, Inter Milan, Bayern, Barcelona, Paris, (Dortmund, Leverkusen 23/24, Napoli 22/23).
Madrid/City/Leverkusen/Bayern/PSG
I’d have Arsenal right there after that along with Inter so yeah it’s a valid opinion. Its certainly very close.
Yeah, because great teams never lose in cup competitions
The only competition Arsenal have been competitive in over the past two seasons is the PL. They haven't been competitive in any domestic cup or Europe.
They've been great in the PL but I don't think you can claim to be a top 5 team in Europe when you only remain competitive in one competition and it's not even the European one.
Made the top 8 in CL, lost to self-inflicted goals against Bayern Munich. Hardly uncompetitive
After barely getting past Porto. And been entirely unconvincing in any other cup competition (even if you were to call their European season "convincing" - which it really wasn't).
He's been at arsenal for 5 years. He's spent nearly £600 million, and won one fa cup. Fantastic return.
I think it’s just a matter of time, they will win it next season or the one after. BUT in case they have injuries like us or Chelsea they’ll collapse and finish 6th
As always opinions change depending what side of the fence you want to banter from.
https://x.com/UTDTrey/status/1291694553423122440?t=FrWsxrQ6tAJWMJ-Rth0bZQ&s=19
https://x.com/UTDTrey/status/1291694553423122440?t=FrWsxrQ6tAJWMJ-Rth0bZQ&s=19
Pep leaivng in 2025. Players like Walker, KDB getting to MLS age. Bernardo might leave this year. The 115 charges pending. It does feel like this era for Man City is deep into its cycle and will end, soon.
Between Arteta and Ten Hag, which manager is more likely to capitalize on what would be a changing landscape in English football in the coming years?
Since Ten Hag came to Man United, Arsenal's goal differential is 105, Man United's is 14. The League Cup and FA Cup are very nice, but surely both Arsenal and Man United want to win the league title.
Arteta has ran Man City under Pep close for two years running. 2 points of the title this year, and with an equal goal difference. We are also stacked with young/youngish players al aobut to enter peak years. Saka 22, Martinelli 22, Saliba 23, Gabriel 26, White 26, Odegaard 25, Rice 25, Haavertz 24, Timber 22;. Arteta will spend again, and he doesn't get it wrong often - he adds quality every window evident by the fact our points totals and GD go up every year.
Im very confident Arteta will deliver a league title to Arsenal. How confident are United fans about ETH?
Between Arteta and Ten Hag, which manager is more likely to capitalize on what would be a changing landscape in English football in the coming years?
Since Ten Hag came to Man United, Arsenal's goal differential is 105, Man United's is 14. The League Cup and FA Cup are very nice, but surely both Arsenal and Man United want to win the league title.
Arteta has ran Man City under Pep close for two years running. 2 points of the title this year, and with an equal goal difference. We are also stacked with young/youngish players al aobut to enter peak years. Saka 22, Martinelli 22, Saliba 23, Gabriel 26, White 26, Odegaard 25, Rice 25, Haavertz 24, Timber 22;. Arteta will spend again, and he doesn't get it wrong often - he adds quality every window evident by the fact our points totals and GD go up every year.
Im very confident Arteta will deliver a league title to Arsenal. How confident are United fans about ETH?
At current moment in time, there is no question who is better. It's Arteta by a thousand miles.
Their football is as good as City and better than Liverpool. They only lost to City because of oil stated backed 115 resources.
Meanwhile, we just had a disastrous season playing negative football with negative GD with record losses and chances conceded. We are so far off compared to Arsenal. It's embarrassing even to compare both.
Yes, we finish 2nd under Ole too but it's way different. Arteta' 2nd was competing toe to toe with City in records points.
Their football is as good as City and better than Liverpool. They only lost to City because of oil stated backed 115 resources.
Meanwhile, we just had a disastrous season playing negative football with negative GD with record losses and chances conceded. We are so far off compared to Arsenal. It's embarrassing even to compare both.
Yes, we finish 2nd under Ole too but it's way different. Arteta' 2nd was competing toe to toe with City in records points.
The community is a glorified friendly. It’s just curtain raiser for the season and is pretty much a token trophy. That’s why it’s never used in discussions surrounding Moyes. The FA Cup has significant as does the league cup albeit much less.Sure, but the there's silverware and silverware. If it were the Community Shield would you even care? (You don't, as evidence by people saying Arsenal went trophyless this season)
Mm. Maybe who you beat and how you beat them on the way also plays its part I guess? Even if it's just the FA Cup, those wins are still pretty memorable in fairness
We did greatly enjoy smashing the Negreira club at their crib last season. Didn't make up in any way shape or form for the season, but it was sweet and we keep the fond memory
I’d personally rather be nearly winning / up there as a well run club and coached team - so I’d rather be where Arsenal are, for sure, if that is compared to FA Cup winners 2024. However Arsenal were already title challengers before this season so speaking solely about this season, they haven’t actually achieved anything whereas we have. So I’m not taking a trophyless season over one with the FA cup. The two questions have different answers for me.
I don’t compare them, I know Klopp is better than Arteta.
Im speaking on the fascination on Arsenal and what we do. This is supposed to be United and Ten Hag’s great end to a difficult season, but it’s about Arteta and Arsenal.
I think it comes from the questions around Erik and using the Arteta example to justify backing Ten Hag, that part I understand here.
Beyond that, trying to diminish Arsenal’s competitiveness over the last 2 years, I don’t get outside of potential anger.
It depends on what it means for the future. Would I change our moment with Arsenal's? 100%.
They're way better and closer than us to major trophies. But if they don't win anything major they'll look back at what? Being 2nd gives you absolute nothing. We've achieve second places and it means nothing.
At the end titles stay, being runners is forgotten. In 20 years nobody will remember Liverpool o Arsenal being City's runner ups. But the titles will stay in history forever.
I can try to explain this fascination. There's none.
For almost the entire season, there has been a running comparison with Arteta. Whether ETH also deserves more time or whether Arteta is so exceptional that his growth shouldn't influence the decision on ETH.
Arteta also started with one trophy and a few years of mediocre football in the league, but now seems to be on the cusp of something great. But there's no being-on-the-cusp trophy. On the other hand, ETH just won a second cup in two years. It makes complete sense to revisit the discussion and see what people think.
It does feel like there are more threads than necessary on the topic, but the ignore thread button exists. Plus you're an Arsenal fan and your eye is obviously drawn to threads related to your club. But it's not like this is the only thread going around at the moment.
Why do people keep saying this like it's fact? I remember the league races going back to Anfield 89 when I was 8, the first English game I remember watching live on TV. I remember the Blackburn Utd tussle, then the Newcastle tussles, then Utd and Arsenal going head to head, then Chelsea came into the fray, Benitez with his fachts, then City and Utd, Stevie G's slip going on and on.
If your a fan that only sees honours lists, then you won't remember who came 2nd. If your a football fan that lived through it, then you remember the battles, the close title races and the stories behind them.
My enduring memory of this season/ten Hag's last (assuming he's sacked) will be how fecking shite it was. Getting outplayed by the majority of the league, shit on a stick football, and a dysfunctional, disorganised mess of a setup. I'll remember the FA Cup final fondly but it doesn't override how bad this period of time has been. My memory isn't that fecked.
Arteta is undoubtedly better, and I say that as someone who's indifferent about ETH's future and won't mind whatever his fate is in the next few days (weeks?)
We can compete with anyone even with an inferior manager, if the club is run well...and it's not like we can find someone who's as good as Pep, Klopp and Arteta this summer...unless someone like McKenna is secretly already a world class manager, which could be the case, hence making his potential appointment an incredibly exciting project...but yeah, none of the usual suspects will get us to 95-100 points in the Premier League just because of their managerial ability, and I include the likes of Tuchel, Zidane and Ancelotti into that list too. The future is in Ineos' hands, not in ETH's or the next manager's.
We can compete with anyone even with an inferior manager, if the club is run well...and it's not like we can find someone who's as good as Pep, Klopp and Arteta this summer...unless someone like McKenna is secretly already a world class manager, which could be the case, hence making his potential appointment an incredibly exciting project...but yeah, none of the usual suspects will get us to 95-100 points in the Premier League just because of their managerial ability, and I include the likes of Tuchel, Zidane and Ancelotti into that list too. The future is in Ineos' hands, not in ETH's or the next manager's.
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Our last 10 years is dubbed as Banter Era. Even when we actually win a number of trophies. Even Moyes win a charity Shield
Arsenal have 14 of those FA cups, we always love a good run in FA cup however PL or EL/CL is what we want next. Arsenal have become a mediocre club in last decade, this investment was required to pull club out of that dire situation. Now they really need to up the game and win it, else they will never be taken seriously.
I would rather win the trophies than the 2nd place finishes, but the 2nd place finishes are actually showing Arsenal are a sustainably good side. Our trophies do not show that. Therefore, I would rather be in their position because it would mean United can win the PL and CL eventually. And if 1 PL is won, then it overrides rival wins in the FA cup or League Cup.
Hence why I've always stated that we know we have the right manager when we can say that we've been in an actual PL title race. 2nd place finishes by themselves don't count, but how close you were to winning is what matters.
Hence why I've always stated that we know we have the right manager when we can say that we've been in an actual PL title race. 2nd place finishes by themselves don't count, but how close you were to winning is what matters.
I remember when we finished 8th and won the FA Cup. It was great, we were able to banter Spurs, but deep down I knew we were far away. Likewise when Wenger won 3 FA cups in 4 years, I knew Wenger was past his sell by date and still needed replacing.
Pep is leaving in 2025. So if you have your houses in order the window is opening for the PL. When Pep goes, he will retire his championship belt and it will be up for grabs. I think Arteta is the number one contender. Moreover I think we can win the league this coming year - Man City only won the league by 2 points. We were also one point shy of 90. Arteta is absolutely a manager who can crack 90 points. He has drilled the best defensive unit in the league.
So forget ETH winning the FA and League Cup. United fans should be asking can ETH get 85 points minimum and get a GD of at least 50? Thats the only quesiton you shoudl be asking yourself. Because you do not want to torch an opportunity to put yourselves in the mix in the post Pep era.
Chelsea, Tottenham even Newcastle fans are all asking if they can prep their teams for an 85 point season in 25-26. If United are to keep ETH, it needs to be for other reasons than winning the FA Cup & League Cup
Pep is leaving in 2025. So if you have your houses in order the window is opening for the PL. When Pep goes, he will retire his championship belt and it will be up for grabs. I think Arteta is the number one contender. Moreover I think we can win the league this coming year - Man City only won the league by 2 points. We were also one point shy of 90. Arteta is absolutely a manager who can crack 90 points. He has drilled the best defensive unit in the league.
So forget ETH winning the FA and League Cup. United fans should be asking can ETH get 85 points minimum and get a GD of at least 50? Thats the only quesiton you shoudl be asking yourself. Because you do not want to torch an opportunity to put yourselves in the mix in the post Pep era.
Chelsea, Tottenham even Newcastle fans are all asking if they can prep their teams for an 85 point season in 25-26. If United are to keep ETH, it needs to be for other reasons than winning the FA Cup & League Cup
Think Atreta is hugely overrated. He’s got a good bunch at the moment but for 2 seasons they’ve been runners up and if you don’t strike when your hot then you inevitably fade again - much the same as Liverpool’s second places to City.
I honestly think that they’ve (Arsenal) missed their chance. Chelsea and United will definitely improve and create much stiffer competition.
Arteta will always be remembered as the bridesmaid, never the bride.
I honestly think that they’ve (Arsenal) missed their chance. Chelsea and United will definitely improve and create much stiffer competition.
Arteta will always be remembered as the bridesmaid, never the bride.
I hope that you do improve and provide stiffer competition, because 1 way that this league stops becoming a procession for City is if more teams take points off them. Weve been the most guilty of not doing that, only managing to do so this season.