Arsenal - 2024/25

[ForFuchsSake]

Personally, I hope we don't take the league cup more seriously. I'm not sure our squad is deep enough to really afford a deep league cup run without too many risks the league campaign. Maybe when Pep is gone and if we don't lose any key players to Spain (like Saliba) then next year or the following year we'd be deep enough where a league cup campaign wouldn't potentially hurt us. As I said, I don't buy into the "Arteta must win a domestic cup this year" BS.

I’d say your squad depth in defence is immense. Might sound like hyperbole but it’s arguably the best in Europe.

Looks like you’re adding Merino which gives you good variety in midfield with him, Rice, Odegaard, Partey, Jorginho. Up front is where your depth is pretty light though - if Saka’s out (which never seems to happen) that could hit you hard.

Anyway, Arteta is doing a brilliant job. I don’t understand how he’s still so often derided by rival fans. The progress and development of the squad is so evident and when you’re up against a juggernaut like City, anything less than perfect is the difference - as we saw last season.

Multiple second place finishes will eventually bring question marks but ultimately, he’s only got to outlast Pep and then Arsenal will likely be favourites for the league.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I think points often get lost in these back and forths so I'll just state mine clearly.

Teams participate in multiple competitions every year: league, domestic cups, international cups. Winning the English league is currently very difficult because Manchester City have a near-monopoly over this competition. A manager cannot be judged too harshly for not winning the league against City. However, Manchester City do not have a near-monopoly over domestic and international cups. A manager can be judged more harshly if they don't win any of these titles either.

 

[CannonBalls]

At some point that has to give though. You can't just go season upon season of challenging and winning nothing. At some point something has to change because the likelihood is that team runs out of steam and they're not challenging anymore and they're finishing 4th and 5th.

Honestly this doesn't change much with the FA cup aswell. We have won like 4 FA cups in the last decade or so.
Currently I would still choose a PL push. But I guess if we don't win anything for next 3-4 years then yes that perception can change but as of now PL push it is.

(Or if ManUtd wins 1 more FA cup to make it level at 14)

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I’d say your squad depth in defence is immense. Might sound like hyperbole but it’s arguably the best in Europe.

Looks like you’re adding Merino which gives you good variety in midfield with him, Rice, Odegaard, Partey, Jorginho. Up front is where your depth is pretty light though - if Saka’s out (which never seems to happen) that could hit you hard.

Anyway, Arteta is doing a brilliant job. I don’t understand how he’s still so often derided by rival fans. The progress and development of the squad is so evident and when you’re up against a juggernaut like City, anything less than perfect is the difference - as we saw last season.

Multiple second place finishes will eventually bring question marks but ultimately, he’s only got to outlast Pep and then Arsenal will likely be favourites for the league.

You're right on defense at the moment. Midfield, I feel is shakier though with Partey's injury history and age and Jorginho also getting up there in years. And I agree about up front since there is still just Havertz and Jesus at striker with questions and overall, too reliant on Saka.

 

[mu4c_20le]

As I said, I don't buy into the "Arteta must win a domestic cup this year" BS.

Easy to say now when there's still a chance of winning the league. He could end up being another Poch.

 

[CannonBalls]

I don't want to sound like an Arteta apologist here, but they have no clear cut world class players. Compare this side to the city and Liverpool sides of the past seven years. They are no match on paper.

They are overperforming as it is.

Well actually the days of buying world class player are gone. One has to develop them.

We have a few Saka/Saliba/Odegaard/Rice whi can reach world class level and all are in the 23-25 range. They can reach the same levels as Salah/VVD/Allison if they keep at it. And they are younger than the Liverpool counterpart when Liverpool got them.

That is why most Arsenal fans would say we are at the beginning of the cycle as this core group can stay and grow together for the next 5-7 years.

But as of now you are absolutely correct that we don't have the players of that level. So a case can be made that more than Arteta we need these players to step up aswell.

 

[SilentWitness]

I think points often get lost in these back and forths so I'll just state mine clearly.

Teams participate in multiple competitions every year: league, domestic cups, international cups. Winning the English league is currently very difficult because Manchester City have a near-monopoly over this competition. A manager cannot be judged too harshly for not winning the league against City. However, Manchester City do not have a near-monopoly over domestic and international cups. A manager can be judged more harshly if they don't win any of these titles either.

I agree with this. Arsenal should be expected to be challenging in those other trophies too.

 

[WeePat]

I don't want to sound like an Arteta apologist here, but they have no clear cut world class players. Compare this side to the city and Liverpool sides of the past seven years. They are no match on paper.

They are overperforming as it is.

Saliba is world class imo.

There are maybe 3 CBs at the most you could say are better than him? Van Dijk, Rudiger, Dias aside, who else would people consider better than Saliba? I'm not sure there many 10s in the world better than Odegaard either.

 

[SambaBoy]

I think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest they must start winning trophies. With City around, you need a near perfect season to win the PL - and I don't think you can really say Arteta has failed with the two seasons they've just had.

The CL - yeah definitely it's a trophy you want to win, but it's very hard to do so. Only Madrid dominate that competition, and then it's shared between a lot of teams or contenders so I don't think he'd be a failure for not winning that in the next 2-3 seasons.

On the flip side, if Arteta won the FA Cup and League Cup double for the next 3 seasons, reached the QF of the CL and finished 2nd - would people be giving him a free pass? I very much doubt it. These cups are looked down upon, rightly or wrongly, and not really considered too much when considering elite ability for players/managers.

 

[erikcred]

I think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest they must start winning trophies. With City around, you need a near perfect season to win the PL - and I don't think you can really say Arteta has failed with the two seasons they've just had.

The CL - yeah definitely it's a trophy you want to win, but it's very hard to do so. Only Madrid dominate that competition, and then it's shared between a lot of teams or contenders so I don't think he'd be a failure for not winning that in the next 2-3 seasons.

On the flip side, if Arteta won the FA Cup and League Cup double for the next 3 seasons, reached the QF of the CL and finished 2nd - would people be giving him a free pass? I very much doubt it. These cups are looked down upon, rightly or wrongly, and not really considered too much when considering elite ability for players/managers.

2nd behind ETH, or Ange or Slot? Problem.

2nd to Pep? While winning the domestic cup double three years running? Of course, people would give him a free pass. The reason is literally in the first paragraph of your post.

If he can't do what Pep is doing, the next best thing is to do what Klopp did. Grab some smaller trophies here and there and hope to get a chance to snatch the big two at some point.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest they must start winning trophies.

All big clubs have to win trophies. A trophyless season for a big club is a disappointment. Even in this disastrous Woodward - Murtough, for a club of United’s size to not win a trophy under Ole was abject failure. Unless Arsenal have turned into some mid table club having their 5 minutes in the sun, trophies should always be a requirment. They’re a big club (Europe aside)

These cups are looked down upon, rightly or wrongly, and not really considered too much when considering elite ability for players/managers.

That’s fine and well but Arteta isn’t an elite manager. He’s won very little so far.

 

[SambaBoy]

2nd behind ETH, or Ange or Slot? Problem.

2nd to Pep? While winning the domestic cup double three years running? Of course, people would give him a free pass. The reason is literally in the first paragraph of your post.

If he can't do what Pep is doing, the next best thing is to do what Klopp did. Grab some smaller trophies here and there and hope to get a chance to snatch the big two at some point.

But he's finished 2nd the last two seasons in a row to Pep - and people are questioning him. Do you really think the same scenario but having won the Carabao Cup would have changed that?

I just think it's too easy for people to label someone a failure when in reality, there is a limited amount of silverware available, and about 50% of the silverware is deemed not good enough (by the vast majority).

 

[SilentWitness]

But he's finished 2nd the last two seasons in a row to Pep - and people are questioning him. Do you really think the same scenario but having won the Carabao Cup would have changed that?

I just think it's too easy for people to label someone a failure when in reality, there is a limited amount of silverware available, and about 50% of the silverware is deemed not good enough (by the vast majority).

Yeah, because fans, players and clubs want to win things. Not finish 2nd (or any other position below that).

 

[Bilbo]

Theres no guarantee it’s only going to be Arsenal challenging City for the next 4-5 years.

A key point. I'd say it's a guarantee that it won't be only Arsenal. 2 years is a long time in football, let alone 4-5

 

[Gene Loblaw]

I’d say your squad depth in defence is immense. Might sound like hyperbole but it’s arguably the best in Europe.

Looks like you’re adding Merino which gives you good variety in midfield with him, Rice, Odegaard, Partey, Jorginho. Up front is where your depth is pretty light though - if Saka’s out (which never seems to happen) that could hit you hard.

I think the depth up to is better than people think just because of the versatility of all the players. Trossard can play all across the front line. I liked it when he played as a false nine. So if havertz goes down, he and jesus are good cover. And if Saka goes down, there's obviously no replacing him and what he offers. But Jesus is a good winger and both trossard and matinelli can work on the right as well. I think the club was also wiling to sell smith rowe because Ethan Nwaneri can play on the right wing as well.

I actually think midfield is where the depth is the worst and that's why they're trying to get merino in. Partey can't play a full season. Neither can jorginho. And Viera is only used in an emergency it feels like.

 

[ArtetaInInIn]

I don’t think rivals think Arteta should be sacked, we just rightfully don’t rate a guy who has consistently been unable to get his team over the line as highly as managers that do. Arteta seems a good manager, but post FA Cup in his first season he’s more akin to Solskjaer than Pep, it’s up to Arteta to change that perception.

Except Ole 2nd place finish was 74 points with a goal difference of 29. Our most second placed finish was 89 points with a goal difference of 62.

Arteta is levels above Ole. Ole is basically retired after his stint flamed out at Man United and is considered almost unhirable by any serious club. Where as Arteta is primed for a long career in management.

It constantly amazes me how so many fans see things in black and white only.

LIke I said before, rival fans want Arteta to leave Arsenal, and thats why the pretend its in Arsenals interest to sack him. You may think your being clever & nifty, but I see right though it.

 

[ArtetaInInIn]

A key point. I'd say it's a guarantee that it won't be only Arsenal. 2 years is a long time in football, let alone 4-5

On the basis of who the managers are at Man United and Chelsea, I would discount them. Slot seems the only manager I would consider capable of challenging for the title.

 

[Powderfinger]

As someone pointed out. He has been part of that squad building and in the past 5 years aside from United and Chelsea they've spent the most.

Spurs have actually spent more on transfer fees during this period and if you count wages then both City and Liverpool have spent more too.

Nobody can compete at the top of the PL without spending lots of money. But Arsenal have done it very efficiently under Arteta in relative terms. Depending how you look at it they are 4th, 5th, or 6th highest spenders in this period where he took a crap team and made them title contenders.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

That’s fine and well but Arteta isn’t an elite manager. He’s won very little so far.

And no amount of domestic Cups will elevate Arteta into the elite category. For that he's going to need to win the league or CL.

I'll just say this one more time. It's not that Arteta is an elite manager but he looks like he can grow into one. The last two years have been more exciting for me to watch Arsenal than in about 15 years. Later Wenger years had turned so boring. The club didn't buy well even when it spent money and the teams football grew so predictable that you knew the finish would be top 4 (barely sometimes) but far off the league winner and you knew Wenger would drop points against some predictable rough, park the bus tactics. The last two years have been more fun to watch than Wengers last 8-9 years.

Klopps first trophy for Liverpool was the Champions League. And Klopp won the CL and the PL before he ever won a domestic cup for Liverpool! And Wenger's 3 FA Cups on 4 years meant nothing in the grand scheme, just masked the deeper flaws in the club. I'm not convinced winning domestic Cups means anything about future success.

So no, Arteta is not under pressure to "deliver a trophy". He's under pressure to deliver progress in the league and CL. That's ultimately the only two trophies that matter for how he'll be judged.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

I think this is Arteta's crucial season. I'm friends with a couple of Arsenal fans and they are feeling if he doesn't deliver the League title this season or major progress in the CL, he's got to go. They feel he's gotten as far as he can get them. What they want is the big trophy. I don't think he should be sacked if they have a similar season but I do think he's under pressure to do better in the CL.

So no, Arteta is not under pressure to "deliver a trophy". He's under pressure to deliver progress in the league and CL. That's ultimately the only two trophies that matter for how he'll be judged.

The only more progress he can make in the PL is to win it. I think Arsenal have given him a lot of lee-way, which was a good call because he has them playing like a proper team and they are together as a unit. The lee-way paying off so far.

What do you think would happen if Arsenal win a domestic cup, finish 3rd in the league and they are knocked out of CL in round of 16? Do you think Arsenal have reached where they are going to reach with Arteta? The other thing is, whom do you replace him with. You will probably find yourselves the situation United had this summer and came to the conclusion there's no other better managers available.

I'm only putting these questions because I think it is a crucial season and it will be interesting to see what happens if Arsenal have a worse season than last year. And would you still accept a domestic cup with a slightly poorer league position as not making progress?

 

[sleepehead]

I think this is Arteta's crucial season. I'm friends with a couple of Arsenal fans and they are feeling if he doesn't deliver the League title this season or major progress in the CL, he's got to go. They feel he's gotten as far as he can get them. What they want is the big trophy. I don't think he should be sacked if they have a similar season but I do think he's under pressure to do better in the CL.


The only more progress he can make in the PL is to win it. I think Arsenal have given him a lot of lee-way, which was a good call because he has them playing like a proper team and they are together as a unit. The lee-way paying off so far.

What do you think would happen if Arsenal win a domestic cup, finish 3rd in the league and they are knocked out of CL in round of 16? Do you think Arsenal have reached where they are going to reach with Arteta? The other thing is, whom do you replace him with. You will probably find yourselves the situation United had this summer and came to the conclusion there's no other better managers available.

I'm only putting these questions because I think it is a crucial season and it will be interesting to see what happens if Arsenal have a worse season than last year. And would you still accept a domestic cup with a slightly poorer league position as not making progress?

I think he'd actually get 2 more years to make it work. But I will say by now he should at least be going deeper in cup runs and in the CL. I think if he has another season where they go 2nd but don't get at least semis in any other competition, his seat will definitely be under fire. If Pep does leave at the end of this year and Arteta still is trophy less next season he should be sacked.

 

[SilentWitness]

Spurs have actually spent more on transfer fees during this period and if you count wages then both City and Liverpool have spent more too.

Nobody can compete at the top of the PL without spending lots of money. But Arsenal have done it very efficiently under Arteta in relative terms. Depending how you look at it they are 4th, 5th, or 6th highest spenders in this period where he took a crap team and made them title contenders.

Transfermarkt have you as the 3rd highest over 5 years and 10 years which is what I referenced.

I agree that he's done very well, I just think that sooner or later he needs to make that next step. I think one of those steps, as it seems many others do, to compete better on all fronts and I think your transfer spending is one factor that shows he's been given the tools to help that.

 

[GoonerBear]

Transfermarkt have you as the 3rd highest over 5 years and 10 years which is what I referenced.

I think @Powderfinger just said Spurs have spent more on transfer fees which is true. I think you might be talking about Net Spend?

 

[SilentWitness]

I think @Powderfinger just said Spurs have spent more on transfer fees which is true. I think you might be talking about Net Spend?

Ooo, yeah, my mistake. I think that still shows that he's been given ample tools to assemble a squad to compete on all fronts though!

 

[Rojofiam]

Claiming Arteta isn't an elite manager because of trophy logic is like claiming Pep wasn't already an elite manager in Barca B in 2007, or Klopp wasn't already elite when he was managing Mainz or during his first few years at Dortmund.

Just because you need trophies to personally confirm it, it doesn't mean they're not there already. Arteta most certainly is one of the best managers on the planet.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I think points often get lost in these back and forths so I'll just state mine clearly.

Teams participate in multiple competitions every year: league, domestic cups, international cups. Winning the English league is currently very difficult because Manchester City have a near-monopoly over this competition. A manager cannot be judged too harshly for not winning the league against City. However, Manchester City do not have a near-monopoly over domestic and international cups. A manager can be judged more harshly if they don't win any of these titles either.

Agree with this.

Somehow the point about cup runs has been disingenuously transformed into a "Carabao cup" by the Arsenal posters in here, dismissing entirely the CL for some reason. I also think the FA Cup is being ignored too easily, because it's convenient for a blinkered view on Arteta. Also, beyond even winning these trophies, actually competing in them would be nice. They haven't done that for a while now.

Arteta most certainly is one of the best managers on the planet.

He's currently at best a very good coach. Of course you need trophies to confirm your status, that is how success (and therefore elite status) is measured in football.

You're trying to make this point that he's the same manager whether he wins or not using a weird hypothetical parallel with Pep (who no one considered "the best manager of the planet" when he was at Barca B), getting a team over the line and getting them to win things is one of the elements that makes you a top manager. Re-motivating them, getting them to compete year after year is another. Managing to compete on multiple fronts, in several competitions, is yet another. Arteta is nowhere near that level yet.

 

[SilentWitness]

He's currently at best a very good coach. Of course you need trophies to confirm your status, that is how success (and therefore elite status) is measured in football.

You're trying to make this point that he's the same manager whether he wins or not using a weird hypothetical parallel with Pep (who no one considered "the best manager of the planet" when he was at Barca B), getting a team over the line and getting them to win things is one of the elements that makes you a top manager. Re-motivating them, getting them to compete year after year is another. Managing to compete on multiple fronts, in several competitions, is yet another. Arteta is nowhere near that level yet.

It's also a funny argument because Pep proved his talent instantly by winning a treble in his first season in 'senior' management.

 

[Rojofiam]

parallel with Pep (who no one considered "the best manager of the planet" when he was at Barca B)

And yet he was already the best in the world? That's my point. You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. The chances of Arteta winning no major trophy in the next 5-10 years is miniscule anyway. It's such a weird logic.

XY is not an elite manager, but as soon as he wins PL/CL, he suddenly is. So before the final game he wasn't? If Pep leaves City at the end of the season, and they hire Ange, and then he goes on to win the PL in his first season, does that mean that right now, 24 months earlier, he isn't an elite manager? No, it means the masses didn't realize it, but he obviously was already one.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

And yet he was already the best in the world? That's my point. You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. The chances of Arteta winning no major trophy in the next 5-10 years is miniscule anyway. It's such a weird logic.

XY is not an elite manager, but as soon as he wins PL/CL, he suddenly is. So before the final game he wasn't? If Pep leaves City at the end of the season, and they hire Ange, and then he goes on to win the PL in his first season, does that mean that right now, 24 months earlier, he isn't an elite manager? No, it means the masses didn't realize it, but he obviously was already one.

Yours is the logic that is weird! One of the criteria of being an elite manager is winning trophies - you can still be a good coach otherwise, but you're not in the top bracket if you don't win, it's fairly straightforward and easy.

Pep acquired his status as an elite manager when he won things with Barca's first team, which was instantly basically. That's not the case of Arteta, so it's a stupid parallel to make.

It's also a funny argument because Pep proved his talent instantly by winning a treble in his first season in 'senior' management.

It's a very very strange comparison to make indeed.

 

[Rojofiam]

Yours is the logic that is weird! One of the criteria of being an elite manager is winning trophies - you can still be a good coach otherwise, but you're not in the top bracket if you don't win, it's fairly straightforward and easy.

Pep acquired his status as an elite manager when he won things with Barca's first team, which was instantly basically. That's not the case of Arteta, so it's a stupid parallel to make.

It's a very very strange comparison to make indeed.

You're focusing too much on what Pep achieved in his first season. I'm comparing Pep and Arteta in the sense that Pep was obviously already one of, if not the best manager on the planet whilst not even managing in a top 5 European league in 2007. The same goes for many current managers, Arteta definitely being one of them. There are many, many elite managers out there with empty or unimpressive CVs. That's why big clubs often hire them instead of Mourinho or Conte for example, two managers with world class CVs. The trophy logic is never ever something that makes sense. Do you think Harry Kane isn't one of the best players in the world? It's just a very surface-level way of looking at things, for both managers and players. It's like you don't even want to delve deeper into things, but just dismiss the whole thing with "no trophies, don't care" basically...whilst if you've closely followed Arteta's career since 2019 so far, it's crystal clear he's one of the best.

Also, you don't get this close to winning the Premier League against one of the best club sides of all time, managed by the greatest manager of all time, without being one of the best managers in the world...whilst also having a subpar squad...twice in a row.

 

[B20]

LIke I said before, rival fans want Arteta to leave Arsenal, and thats why the pretend its in Arsenals interest to sack him. You may think your being clever & nifty, but I see right though it.

It works the other way too. There were loads on here trying to convince Liverpool fans that Roy Hodgson was a good manager whom we should stick with, we were being unfair, etc. Some of them seemed to genuinely believe what they were saying, which makes me wonder if they are even aware of why they were doing it.

 

[Rojofiam]

Saliba is world class imo.

There are maybe 3 CBs at the most you could say are better than him? Van Dijk, Rudiger, Dias aside, who else would people consider better than Saliba? I'm not sure there many 10s in the world better than Odegaard either.

Saliba, Rice and Saka are all world class. Odegaard isn't. Havertz could be world class IMO if he was playing solely as a striker. As a midfielder I think he's far from it, but as a #9 his numbers are definitely world class level.

However, they don't have an answer for Haaland and De Bruyne. Those two and, well, Pep are the three difference makers for City.

Also, Saliba is easily better than Dias and Rüdiger. Those two really tend to get overrated, not just by their own fans, when discussing the best centre backs in the world. They play in really good defenses and are great defenders, but clearly not on van Dijk's or even Saliba's level. Inferior profiles.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Claiming Arteta isn't an elite manager because of trophy logic is like claiming Pep wasn't already an elite manager in Barca B in 2007, or Klopp wasn't already elite when he was managing Mainz or during his first few years at Dortmund.

Just because you need trophies to personally confirm it, it doesn't mean they're not there already. Arteta most certainly is one of the best managers on the planet.

It's more like saying Messi was the best player in the world in 2004.

 

[Nish115]

Some people are massively underrating Odegaard, find it crazy.

Guy presses like mad, is a leader, can create magic from nothing, is amazing to watch, and has 40 g/a in the past two seasons in the league. 20 g/a per season from a midfielder is world class level output, especially considering everything else he brings to the table.

 

[Rojofiam]

Some people are massively underrating Odegaard, find it crazy.

Guy presses like mad, is a leader, can create magic from nothing, is amazing to watch, and has 40 g/a in the past two seasons in the league. 20 g/a per season from a midfielder is world class level output..

"is amazing to watch" Is exactly why he's overrated.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

And no amount of domestic Cups will elevate Arteta into the elite category. For that he's going to need to win the league or CL.

I'll just say this one more time. It's not that Arteta is an elite manager but he looks like he can grow into one. The last two years have been more exciting for me to watch Arsenal than in about 15 years. Later Wenger years had turned so boring. The club didn't buy well even when it spent money and the teams football grew so predictable that you knew the finish would be top 4 (barely sometimes) but far off the league winner and you knew Wenger would drop points against some predictable rough, park the bus tactics. The last two years have been more fun to watch than Wengers last 8-9 years.

Klopps first trophy for Liverpool was the Champions League. And Klopp won the CL and the PL before he ever won a domestic cup for Liverpool! And Wenger's 3 FA Cups on 4 years meant nothing in the grand scheme, just masked the deeper flaws in the club. I'm not convinced winning domestic Cups means anything about future success.

I think some of the discrepancies in this chat are because some people are talking about Arteta's career up to now and some are talking about hypothetical futures.

We know, with the benefit of hindsight, that Arsenal's 3 FA cups meant 'nothing' in the grand scheme of things. But it wasn't that obvious at the time. They'd added some really good players like Ozil and Sanchez, and saw some improved performances in the league. Just as we know, with the benefit of hindsight, that Klopp's high point at Liverpool was many years ago (2018-2020) and that they'd never reach those heights again, despite winning some domestic cups. But this wasn't obvious either, and up to the end people thought that he'd finish with another league title and/or a Europa League.

The same applies to Arteta, he has done a very good job so far, but improving league performances, improving the squad, being more fun to watch, etc. will not matter much in the hypothetical future in which Arsenal don't win the league or CL.

It's just a long-winded way to say that you can until everything's over, all takes on a managerial reign are subject to revision.

 

[ArtetaInInIn]

When people suggest sacking Arteta. I Interpret it as nose bleeding an Antonio Conte appointment & thinking you are showing ambition.

Ignore the false messiahs and fake tough guys who think they have 'high standards'.

 

[Nish115]

"is amazing to watch" Is exactly why he's overrated.

What does this even mean? He clearly is a silky footballer, but with end product too.

 

[Rojofiam]

What does this even mean? He clearly is a silky footballer, but with end product too.

It means some footballers who have aesthetically pleasing playstyles get way too overrated sometimes...Odegaard, Foden, etc.

That doesn't mean they're bad players, obviously, but this "Foden is the best player in the league" or "Odegaard is levels above Bruno" discourse makes me want to vomit sometimes. Widely accepted casual narratives that couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Nish115]

It means some footballers who have aesthetically pleasing playstyles get way too overrated sometimes...Odegaard, Foden, etc.

That doesn't mean they're bad players, obviously, but this "Foden is the best player in the league" or "Odegaard is levels above Bruno" discourse makes me want to vomit sometimes. Widely accepted casual narratives that couldn't be further from the truth.

I mean who is saying both those things.

Foden isn't the best player in the league at all. Odegaard and Bruno are in a similar bracket. I'd much rather take Odegaard though.