Arsenal - 2024/25

[Redstain]

Arsenal need to win a major trophy this season. They are now a very expensively assembled and experienced squad.

Same can be said for United and Chelsea.

The difference is unlike either club, Arsenal have one of the best out of the top two managers in the league. So the conversation should alternate on them winning because they have a manager who has the capacity and capability to do so.

 

[GoonerBear]

Arsenal need to win a major trophy this season. They are now a very expensively assembled and experienced squad.

All the squads in the top part of the table are very expensively assembled squads.

 

[eire-red]

Same can be said for United and Chelsea.

The difference is unlike the two Arsenal have one of the best out of the top two managers in the league. So the conversation should alternate on them winning because they have a manager who has the capacity and capability to do so.

All the squads in the top part of the table are very expensively assembled squads.

What I was getting at is that Arteta has gotten a lot of plaudits for what he has done at Arsenal - and rightly so. But surely this is a defining season for him now?

I feel like the level of praise he has gotten has been a factor of things like having a young team, the narrative around those first few years and the journey etc. But no there's no hiding place. They have to win something big this season in my eyes - PL or CL. Otherwise second is just that, second. Nobody will remember in a few years and honestly this squad of players is too good to just have second as an achievement.

Do Arsenal fans not agree?

 

[Art]

Pains me to admit how good Arsenal are these days. So well organized

 

[SilentWitness]

What I was getting at is that Arteta has gotten a lot of plaudits for what he has done at Arsenal - and rightly so. But surely this is a defining season for him now?

I feel like the level of praise he has gotten has been a factor of things like having a young team, the narrative around those first few years and the journey etc. But no there's no hiding place. They have to win something big this season in my eyes - PL or CL. Otherwise second is just that, second. Nobody will remember in a few years and honestly this squad of players is too good to just have second as an achievement.

Do Arsenal fans not agree?

People talk about them now as one of the best teams, it is definitely time that they back that up in some way.

 

[footyfan019]

What I was getting at is that Arteta has gotten a lot of plaudits for what he has done at Arsenal - and rightly so. But surely this is a defining season for him now?

I feel like the level of praise he has gotten has been a factor of things like having a young team, the narrative around those first few years and the journey etc. But no there's no hiding place. They have to win something big this season in my eyes - PL or CL. Otherwise second is just that, second. Nobody will remember in a few years and honestly this squad of players is too good to just have second as an achievement.

Do Arsenal fans not agree?

We should, but city is a freak squad. Half of the teams on that table will roll over for them while we all struggle for points. It's the third season with current squad, players like Saka, Saliba, Odegaard etc are entering prime and will move on to greener pastures if we dont win something significant soon. Arteta knows this and so does the board.

 

[wr8_utd]

People talk about them now as one of the best teams, it is definitely time that they back that up in some way.

They're very very good and I think they'll win the League this season. If not on the pitch, then when City get their points deduction because they're leagues above anyone else.

 

[Daydreamer]

What I was getting at is that Arteta has gotten a lot of plaudits for what he has done at Arsenal - and rightly so. But surely this is a defining season for him now?

I feel like the level of praise he has gotten has been a factor of things like having a young team, the narrative around those first few years and the journey etc. But no there's no hiding place. They have to win something big this season in my eyes - PL or CL. Otherwise second is just that, second. Nobody will remember in a few years and honestly this squad of players is too good to just have second as an achievement.

Do Arsenal fans not agree?

I agree that we're one of the best teams in the country. The second best team, to be exact. So I expect a title title challenge and would be thrilled to go all the way.

 

[Crimson Hunter]

Fecking hell. If we don't buy a striker after this horror show from Havertz, I don't know if we ever will again.
Basically, not doing so would be wasting the time, energy, and massive potential of this squad.

 

[Daydreamer]

People talk about them now as one of the best teams, it is definitely time that they back that up in some way.

Isn't a team taking the title race to the last day backing up in some way that you're one of the the best teams in the country? That's pretty much the definition of being one of the best teams, surely?

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Isn't a team taking the title race to the last day backing up in some way that you're one of the the best teams in the country? That's pretty much the definition of being one of the best teams, surely?

There's other things than the league. 3 other things.

 

[MalaysianRed7]

15 goals less than last season seems impossible honestly, that record will stand for a while
Edu and Arteta need to find somebody to cover for Saka. Finding a Trossard clone on the right would be amazing.

I hate using this word with regards to Arsenal but you just seem invincible defensively. If you defend well as you generally do these days, you don’t concede, and on the odd occasion your defence is penetrated, you only very rarely concede. We also need to remember that a large proportion of the goals you conceded last season were clangers like the Romero NLD goal. Cut those out and you’re on to the record I reckon.

 

[Daydreamer]

There's other things than the league. 3 other things.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Winning the FA Cup doesn’t make you one of the best teams in country. At least, it didn’t when Wenger won 3 in 4 years. Or when Arteta won it within the first few months of his career.

League Cups wins are even less indicative of a team’s quality.

The Champions League is a good barometer. By that yardstick we’re one of the eight best teams in Europe. I’d love us to improve on that this season.

 

[Mogget]

There's other things than the league. 3 other things.

I think we're quite clearly the second best team in the league right now. Winning/not winning an FA cup or the league cup doesn't really change that

 

[eire-red]

We should, but city is a freak squad. Half of the teams on that table will roll over for them while we all struggle for points. It's the third season with current squad, players like Saka, Saliba, Odegaard etc are entering prime and will move on to greener pastures if we dont win something significant soon. Arteta knows this and so does the board.

I take your point, and agree to a certain extent. However, United were dominant to a similar degree when Wenger took charge, and it took him until his second season to win the League and FA Cup double. He did it again 4 seasons later.

In the last two seasons, you were top of the table in the run in. City caught you on both occasions. Wenger used to get jeered about these things when at Arsenal. Under Arteta it's talked about as success.

I get the City narrative, and the "oh well they're just too good". However, I think my point stands. Last two seasons were great achievements. But Arsenal have spent big and have top players now across the board. If Arsenal don't do it this year, I think Arteta will start to run out of goodwill. Other great teams find a way to get over the line when it counts.

 

[SilentWitness]

Isn't a team taking the title race to the last day backing up in some way that you're one of the the best teams in the country? That's pretty much the definition of being one of the best teams, surely?

I think we're quite clearly the second best team in the league right now. Winning/not winning an FA cup or the league cup doesn't really change that

To an extent yes, but winning something certifies it further. Being one of the best teams but winning nothing is just...flat.

It's like us, we are one of the worst teams in the league but just don't get relegated. It's just...sad.

Maybe this season both will give!

I do have you as my pick for the title. Think you've now got the squad for it.

 

[eire-red]

Isn't a team taking the title race to the last day backing up in some way that you're one of the the best teams in the country? That's pretty much the definition of being one of the best teams, surely?

Honest question - Do you ever sit back and think about how good Spurs were under Pochettino? They finished second a couple times? Or at the very least 2 or 3 seasons in the top 3 with mid to high 80's in points tally.

I don't think about them at all. They won nothing, as I'm sure Arsenal fans love to point out when bantering with Spurs fans.

This Arsenal team is now too good not to win something major. The differenxd between success and failure in sport is often slim. I feel Arteta is approaching that this season is my only point.

Interesting to understand Arsenal fans perspective on this.

 

[Daydreamer]

To an extent yes, but winning something certifies it further. Being one of the best teams but winning nothing is just...flat.

It's like us, we are one of the worst teams in the league but just don't get relegated. It's just...sad.

Maybe this season both will give!

I do have you as my pick for the title. Think you've now got the squad for it.

I definitely agree that there's a sadness to to coming up just short to City for two seasons running. Handing Pep Guardiola limitless funds and nearly a decade to build (and rebuild) a squad is practically a cheat code. That's leaving aside the 115 accusation of literal cheating that they're accused of.

I think we've got the squad to compete this year and I expect us to. I just don't expect us to win. Which seems reasonable to me.

 

[Daydreamer]

Honest question - Do you ever sit back and think about how good Spurs were under Pochettino? They finished second a couple times? Or at the very least 2 or 3 seasons in the top 3 with mid to high 80's in points tally.

I don't think about them at all. They won nothing, as I'm sure Arsenal fans love to point out when bantering with Spurs fans.

This Arsenal team is now too good not to win something major. The differenxd between success and failure in sport is often slim. I feel Arteta is approaching that this season is my only point.

Interesting to understand Arsenal fans perspective on this.

Honest answer - I try to think about Spurs as little as possible.

I think you already understand Arsenal fans perspective on this (at least as far as the Gooners in this thread are representative of our fanbase). It just seems that you don't agree. Which is fine.

I think our team is very good, but I don't think it's "too good not to win something major" (by which I think we mean the PL and CL). City are better team than us. Real are a better team than us. Arsenal played pretty damn near their potential last season. The problem is... City did too.

I'm proud of my team. I enjoy the watching them play and everyone connected with the club is doing their upmost to make us successful. Lots of things have gone our way in order for us to assemble the squad, coaching staff and backroom team that we have. One thing has certainly not gone our way is that all of this has happened during Guardiola's tenure at City. Had our last two campaigns not coincided with a juggernaut, we would have two titles to show for it. We've been unlucky in that regard... but not as unlucky as Liverpool.

 

[Zagoon]

What I was getting at is that Arteta has gotten a lot of plaudits for what he has done at Arsenal - and rightly so. But surely this is a defining season for him now?

I feel like the level of praise he has gotten has been a factor of things like having a young team, the narrative around those first few years and the journey etc. But no there's no hiding place. They have to win something big this season in my eyes - PL or CL. Otherwise second is just that, second. Nobody will remember in a few years and honestly this squad of players is too good to just have second as an achievement.

Do Arsenal fans not agree?

No, we do not agree. At least not the sensible Arsenal fans. Arteta "MUST WIN", when we arent even favourites is frankly nonsense.

When MUST United or when MUST Chelsea win the PL? Havent they outspent Arsenal? Isnt Ten Hag a better manager than Arteta?

No.... When evaluating Arsenal, Arteta and what he "must do" this season, first ask yourself these questions.

Who are favourites for the Premier League
Who are the favourites for the Champions League.

Let me humour you and answer them. For the Premier League its City who are clear favourites yet again. For the Champions League its City, Madrid, Bayern, probably Liverpool who are ahead of Arsenal.

So.... No... There is no must win the PL or CL or something should happen. That's nonsense.

Where Mikel will be judged, by the fans and club... is meeting the basic requirements needed to dine at the top top table. And that means we qualify for Champions League every season, and give a strong account of ourselves in the Premier League every season. That's really the best you can do when you fighting against the best manager of all time and a list of the best of all time in Europe.

 

[Sandikan]

They had a couple of 8ths, then a 3rd year nowhere, now look at them.

Fingers crossed we can somehow mirror what they're doing.

Just installing something like their centre back combo would be a start. 2 tough, tall defenders, with pace in there too and great goal threat.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Working under the assumption that City have cheated to assemble a stacked squad with strength in depth that no other team enjoys… and also suggesting Arsenal are a failure if they don’t beat them… is insane.

Klopps 3 seasons with Liverpool where he bested them once, was genuinely impressive. Arteta would do well to match that one in three record.

I’d only say they failed if they finish 5-10 points behind with City on less than 90 points. But even that would indicate a stronger league.

 

[bond19821982]

Patience pays. They were brilliant today. Hopefully this is the blue print we also plan to implement.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Great player, not on the same level as Bruno or De Bruyne as a #10, though. They are two players you can give the keys to and they'll leave you in awe with their creativity and can make it look like a form of art. There's a lot of spontaneity to it as well which makes it unpredictable. They not only create a more, it's also a lot more instinctive and spontaneous. Almost every pass and final ball is dangerous. They can also create these passes and final balls out of nothing, on their own. With Odegaard I've never seen that. Like De Bruyne himself said, it's a "bit more controlled" and feels a bit robotic to me. He's doing his job as part of a well-oiled system very well, but he doesn't have what it takes to run the team's attack like the 2 aforementioned players. Remember Özil? He's another true creator from the past you can build your attack around, just like Bruno or KDB.

Regarding the goal contributions, if you really want to lean on the numbers, Odegaard has been playing for a top 4 team in the world for the last 2 seasons that came very close to winning the league over the best team in the world twice in a row, that's also one of the greatest club sides of all time. Bruno almost matched the Norwegian's numbers whilst playing for a top 4 contender in 22/23, and then for a team that the underlying numbers had at 14th in 23/24. He's never had a team around him like Arsenal 22/23 or 23/24. Not even close. And then KDB matched Odegaard's numbers with a fraction of his minutes played.

Fernandes
PL: 8G+8A=16GA (22/23) + 10G+8A=18GA (23/24) = 34GA in 6440 minutes (71.55 matches). A goal contribution every 189 minutes.
All comps: 14G+14A=28GA (22/23) + 15G+13A=28GA (23/24) = 56GA in 9450 minutes(105 matches). A goal contribution every 169 minutes.

Odegaard
PL: 15G+7A=22GA (22/23) + 8G+10A=18GA (23/24) = 40GA in 6254 minutes (69.48 matches). A goal contribution every 156 minutes.
All comps: 15G+7A=22GA (22/23) + 11G+11A=22GA (23/24) = 44GA in 7457 minutes (82.85 matches). A goal contribution every 169 minutes.

De Bruyne
PL: 7G+18A=25GA (22/23) + 4G+10A=14GA (23/24) = 39GA in 3653 minutes (40.58 matches). A goal contribution every 94 minutes.
All comps: 10G+31A=41 (22/23) + 6G+18A=24GA (23/24) = 65GA in 5435 minutes (60.38 matches). A goal contribution every 84 minutes.

I want to also mention the 20/21 season for Bruno, when he arguably had the best team and environment around him in his United career to date (but 20/21 United still wasn't even close to 22/23 or 23/24 Arsenal's levels):

29 G/A in the league in 3109 minutes (34.54 matches). A goal contribution every 107 minutes.
45 G/A in all comps in 4585 minutes (50.94 matches) A goal contribution every 102 minutes.

I don't even think the stats matter that much in relation to the point I'm trying get across here, but they don't really back you up as much as you try to imply either...

De Bruyne and Fernandes are clearly the two best creation machines in the world. I don't see how it's an absurd take that Odegaard doesn't match them in this aspect. He's a great #10 with a lot of great qualities and an overall very impressive skillset, but you just need to watch all three play and create for their team, and you'll see what I mean.

Arsenal have one attacker that's a true maverick and a true answer to Haaland and KDB at City, and that's Bukayo Saka. A world class player that can mean the difference between 1st and 2nd, and can carry a whole team on their backs when needed. Odegaard isn't that guy, sorry.

Yeah you don’t watch enough Arsenal.

Odegaard has been better than Bruno and KdB across the last two seasons. If for no other reason than he is a defensive animal too. He’s not the passer than KdB is, or the finisher that Bruno is, but he’s Arsenals best player, and easily on the same level as the other two.

To argue otherwise is just mental.

 

[Yorkeontop]

 

[CannonBalls]

I take your point, and agree to a certain extent. However, United were dominant to a similar degree when Wenger took charge, and it took him until his second season to win the League and FA Cup double. He did it again 4 seasons later.

In the last two seasons, you were top of the table in the run in. City caught you on both occasions. Wenger used to get jeered about these things when at Arsenal. Under Arteta it's talked about as success.

I get the City narrative, and the "oh well they're just too good". However, I think my point stands. Last two seasons were great achievements. But Arsenal have spent big and have top players now across the board. If Arsenal don't do it this year, I think Arteta will start to run out of goodwill. Other great teams find a way to get over the line when it counts.

United under Ferguson were nowhere close to the current City. This City team is monstrous. Since his second season only one team has beaten Guardiola. Klopps Liverpool and they had to win 26 games off the first 27 for City to back off.

Yes United were dominant in EPL during Fergie era but that was more like Bayern in Bundesliga (that too to a lesser degree). Domination but still within reach. Needed around 80pts to win the league. Currently we have 2 seasons of Liverpool with 90+ points finishing second. What we are currently seeing in EPL with City is something else.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Saka has probably played about double the amount of matches in the Prem compared to Foden at 22.

 

[Winrar]

They have a solid, young base of players around the pitch that can execute Arteta’s plans well, backed by arguably one of, if not the best CB pairing in Saliba and Gabriel.

If I was an Arsenal fan, I’d be livid if the team fails to win the PL or CL in the next 5 years.

 

[eire-red]

United under Ferguson were nowhere close to the current City. This City team is monstrous. Since his second season only one team has beaten Guardiola. Klopps Liverpool and they had to win 26 games off the first 27 for City to back off.

Yes United were dominant in EPL during Fergie era but that was more like Bayern in Bundesliga (that too to a lesser degree). Domination but still within reach. Needed around 80pts to win the league. Currently we have 2 seasons of Liverpool with 90+ points finishing second. What we are currently seeing in EPL with City is something else.

I always love this line of reasoning. United won 8 titles between '93 and '03. If not for Cantona being suspended, I think we'd have won '95 and that would have been 9 out of 11 seasons, and 5 in a row. How is that not comparable to City's domination?

But wait, it wasn't real domination because sure a few of those we won with 80 points or less. Anyone can do that! I bet the Arsenal, Liverpool, Blackburn and Newcastle fans didn't mind missing out on the league as much, and always felt a greater sense of hope because sure it's only 80 points, can easily get that next season. It's nonsensical to compare eras like that.

It's very hard to compete with City, I'll give you that. But I feel if I was an Arsenal fan I'd want to see some major silverware out of this era, preferably in the next season or two. Otherwise, as a fan I'd look back on it with a very bittersweet feeling, especially considering you've had your destiny in your own hands in a couple of those run-ins.

Clearly resident Arsenal fans on here don't agree, and that's fine - and I get your viewpoint too. It kind of softens the blow knowing City are that good.

 

[Redstain]

Patience pays. They were brilliant today. Hopefully this is the blue print we also plan to implement.

If that's the case than the blueprint would signify that Erik Ten Hag would need to challenge for the league next season. Something that doesn't even look remotely close to being realistic let alone possible.

I also think it's narrow-minded to assimilate Arsenal's resurgence to patience, they have hired a manager with no professional experience who is outcoaching some of the most renowned managers in Europe, time doesn't produce that competency does.

The narrative to me is that they have stumbled across an individual who on current trajectory has the makings of being within an elite status, something only two managers (Klopp / Pep) in the league have achieved in the last decade.

 

[Daydreamer]

I always love this line of reasoning. United won 8 titles between '93 and '03. If not for Cantona being suspended, I think we'd have won '95 and that would have been 9 out of 11 seasons, and 5 in a row. How is that not comparable to City's domination?

But wait, it wasn't real domination because sure a few of those we won with 80 points or less. Anyone can do that! I bet the Arsenal, Liverpool, Blackburn and Newcastle fans didn't mind missing out on the league as much, and always felt a greater sense of hope because sure it's only 80 points, can easily get that next season. It's nonsensical to compare eras like that.

It's very hard to compete with City, I'll give you that. But I feel if I was an Arsenal fan I'd want to see some major silverware out of this era, preferably in the next season or two. Otherwise, as a fan I'd look back on it with a very bittersweet feeling, especially considering you've had your destiny in your own hands in a couple of those run-ins.

Clearly resident Arsenal fans on here don't agree, and that's fine - and I get your viewpoint too. It kind of softens the blow knowing City are that good.

I don’t know if you’re intentionally misunderstanding, but the point is that while obviously United dominated across seasons, City dominate within seasons. They win a ridiculous number of games. In the second half of last season, Arsenal won 17 out of 19 games with a single draw and single loss. The loss was to Villa (who also beat City and came 4th). And the draw was away at City who we beat at home. It was literally our best set of results in the second half to a league season in our entire history. And it still wasn’t enough because City went one better.

I’m in my late 30s. I supported Arsenal throughout the 93-03 period. Arsenal were United’s closest challengers for the vast majority of those seasons. If any fanbase knows first hand the difference between challenging for the league against the two Manchester sides… it’s Gooners in their 30s and above. Trust me - it ain’t the same.

You say that if you were an Arsenal fan you’d want to see silverware. Well I’m an Arsenal fan and I want to see silverware. I haven’t seen any fans on here that don’t want to see silverware. We want it, we hope for it, we’re pretty confident we’re gonna challenge for it. We just don’t expect it. And seeing as we’re not the favourites, that pretty reasonable. I also don’t really see what getting riled up about it would achieve.

 

[BluesJr]

8th, 8th, 5th. Arteta out was trending many times. Worth remembering for some.

 

[CannonBalls]

I don’t know if you’re intentionally misunderstanding, but the point is that while obviously United dominated across seasons, City dominate within seasons. They win a ridiculous number of games. In the second half of last season, Arsenal won 17 out of 19 games with a single draw and single loss. The loss was to Villa (who also beat City and came 4th). And the draw was away at City who we beat at home. It was literally our best set of results in the second half to a league season in our entire history. And it still wasn’t enough because City went one better.

I’m in my late 30s. I supported Arsenal throughout the 93-03 period. Arsenal were United’s closest challengers for the vast majority of those seasons. If any fanbase knows first hand the difference between challenging for the league against the two Manchester sides… it’s Gooners in their 30s and above. Trust me - it ain’t the same.

You say that if you were an Arsenal fan you’d want to see silverware. Well I’m an Arsenal fan and I want to see silverware. I haven’t seen any fans on here that don’t want to see silverware. We want it, we hope for it, we’re pretty confident we’re gonna challenge for it. We just don’t expect it. And seeing as we’re not the favourites, that pretty reasonable. I also don’t really see what getting riled up about it would achieve.

And last year City was not even on full throttle. City with 91 points won by 2 points. But if required they could have gotten even more. They just kept themselves in striking distance all the time.

Dont think some United fans would understand untill they would experience the 97 point runners-up season with United firsthand.

(Not trying to downplay anything United achieved. We Arsenal fans first hand know how good you were aswell during that time)

 

[ArtetaInInIn]

Honest question - Do you ever sit back and think about how good Spurs were under Pochettino? They finished second a couple times? Or at the very least 2 or 3 seasons in the top 3 with mid to high 80's in points tally.

I don't think about them at all. They won nothing, as I'm sure Arsenal fans love to point out when bantering with Spurs fans.

This Arsenal team is now too good not to win something major. The differenxd between success and failure in sport is often slim. I feel Arteta is approaching that this season is my only point.

Interesting to understand Arsenal fans perspective on this.

If your suggesting Arteta should be sacked, then your a million miles off.

 

[ArtetaInInIn]

8th, 8th, 5th. Arteta out was trending many times. Worth remembering for some.

The first 8th place finish is a bit disingenuous because Arteta took over in December 2019 when we were 11th in the league.

When it come to Arteta's full seasons as Arsenal manager. 8th, 5th, 2nd, 2nd.

 

[ScholesyTheWise]

They're a very good football team. in the simple sense of they football they play.
The may be one without winning a PL. They'll be a laughing stock for sure, if they have no trophies to show for their very good football, because that's how it is.

But LVG/Mou's United weren't good football teams and have won trophies. same for ETH's United, or Di Matteo's Chelsea, or many others.

Arse have the misfortune of peaking right next to possibly the most consistently great team the PL has ever seen,
with endless pits of money and who blatantly cheat without paying for it.

It's great as a United fan that they fail to win trophies, I don't mind.

But yeah, they're very good.

 

[mav_9me]

They had a couple of 8ths, then a 3rd year nowhere, now look at them.

Fingers crossed we can somehow mirror what they're doing.

Just installing something like their centre back combo would be a start. 2 tough, tall defenders, with pace in there too and great goal threat.

Patience pays. They were brilliant today. Hopefully this is the blue print we also plan to implement.

Nothing suggests we are trying to do the same.

We don't try to control the games anywhere near like them. We don't have the midfield, we are not even trying to get that type of midfield. We don't value the ball anywhere near like them.

I think the difference between us two teams in possession is summed up by the different play styles of Bruno and Odegaard.

 

[The_Midfielder]

They don't have a striker that can score goals ....
They need somebody to get Salah, Halland goals

 

[The_Midfielder]

Nothing suggests we are trying to do the same.

We don't try to control the games anywhere near like them. We don't have the midfield, we are not even trying to get that type of midfield. We don't value the ball anywhere near like them.

I think the difference between us two teams in possession is summed up by the different play styles of Bruno and Odegaard.

It is not Bruno vs Odegraad..
It is rice vs casemiro
Partey vs mainoo
They are more defensive as these are like playing with 2 DMs
who are good defensively

 

[footyfan019]

I take your point, and agree to a certain extent. However, United were dominant to a similar degree when Wenger took charge, and it took him until his second season to win the League and FA Cup double. He did it again 4 seasons later.

In the last two seasons, you were top of the table in the run in. City caught you on both occasions. Wenger used to get jeered about these things when at Arsenal. Under Arteta it's talked about as success.

I get the City narrative, and the "oh well they're just too good". However, I think my point stands. Last two seasons were great achievements. But Arsenal have spent big and have top players now across the board. If Arsenal don't do it this year, I think Arteta will start to run out of goodwill. Other great teams find a way to get over the line when it counts.

No it's not like Fergie Wenger era, 90-95 points is baseline to win title now. It will need to have a near perfect run to beat city in league. Most clubs are spending high and it doesn't not assure sucess, brighton have spent close to 200m this season. Villa and Chelsea also have spent well and improved their squad.

Arsenal were not in the mix for a decade so competing in back to back title chase is deemed as a sucess. But the board and coach are having higher ambition, club will raise the bar. We are desperate to win PL, it's been 2 decade since we have won it. We don't care much about domestic cups as we have won it enough. PL title and deep run in CL is what we want next.