I'm fairly clueless on that topic but I have always thought that it's usage was plain weird because it makes me think of crayola.
Argentina players singing racist chant targeting French players after Copa America final
- Thread starter Gandalf Greyhame
- Start date
I'm fairly clueless on that topic but I have always thought that it's usage was plain weird because it makes me think of crayola.
Jaysus, this thread...
(Just browsed the last couple of pages.)
Are there any interesting/relevant updates that pertains to United (our players)?
Do we know if - and/or to what extent - our players were involved in this thing?
(Just browsed the last couple of pages.)
Are there any interesting/relevant updates that pertains to United (our players)?
Do we know if - and/or to what extent - our players were involved in this thing?
they don't really have problem with them. Senna was regular when they needed such player. if Inaki was good enough (strangely, I thought he was), he would have been given more chances as well since they were fairly thin in attack in recent years. Ansu debuted before Nico and Yamal.
I mean, it's not that wild. They did have a lot of free time on their hands from the late 40s onwards.
you will see their threads bumped if that proves to be the case.
Fair.
tbh, I doubt Enzo is going ever going to admit who else participated in singing. it's already bad for him, but if he start snitching... the only support he has goes away.
Probably not. But it might be possible to identify others from the material itself.
Anyway, I completely agree with those who have suggested that this - obviously - wasn't just a random chant that got started by a few individuals (and seriously frowned upon by the rest).
The chant goes back to the 2022 WC and has - clearly - been embraced by the players to some degree.
Feckin' cretins (at best) - hardly surprising, though.
Just look at the replies to that Twitter post. Using a terrible Kenyan politician looking to score really cheap political points based on the same falsity as the Argentinian song doesn't make the Argentinians not racist.
The French team are French - all born in France, went to French schools, speak French and - most importantly - consider themselves French.
Doesn't matter if you're first, second or third generation in a country, the fact is they are born in the country that they represent and are therefore from there. No different to Americans claiming to be Irish/Scottish/Swedish or whatever, they still consider themselves American first.
"to get more granular" 
Why were they singing about France after beating Colombia in a competition that France weren't even in anyway? Makes no sense even before the racism/transphobia. Idiots.
Why don't you get even more granular and look at earlier migration periods to see where we all come from.
Also, the "argument" that this is just about "football folklore" (a ridiculously pompous term - where the feck did that come from?) doesn't fly in the slightest.
"Yeah, they did mock trans people - but that's not 'cause they hate trans people, it's just an...insult! Like when I mock my friend 'cause he's fat! I don't hate the dude, I just mock him 'cause he's fat! And he loves it! Really, he does. He mocks me back 'cause I have slightly uneven teeth!"
No problem there, just "banter".
"Yeah, they did mock trans people - but that's not 'cause they hate trans people, it's just an...insult! Like when I mock my friend 'cause he's fat! I don't hate the dude, I just mock him 'cause he's fat! And he loves it! Really, he does. He mocks me back 'cause I have slightly uneven teeth!"
No problem there, just "banter".
I think it is pretty clear what he meant by "European".
What do you think native means? 1 parent from the same country, or 2? What about grandparents or great grandparents? Is it the surname? Or the appearance of the person? Is it relating to culture or genetics?
What arbitrary factor makes 1 person native and the other not? Is this arbitrary factor constant or does it change over time?
"to get more granular"
If you want to maintain a (delusional) idea about "European purity", it's probably best to stay well away from anything "granular" - because the very idea falls apart utterly very quickly when you get scientific about it.
Then again, people who are worried about purity generally don't like science - it tends to go against their beliefs rather than confirm them.
Yes, to the finer point of where a player belongs to, in my opinion it is important where they learned to pick up the game, but it doesn't have to be limited to that. Some people just feel right at home in a certain town, area or country and that's all there is to it. Really we should respect their wishes whatever they chose to represent if they have a choice. If they want to play for San Marino, and qualify...so be it.
Black Americans still dominate basketball in the States. They are just American as their White counterparts. But one of the reasons they dominate is because it is a relatively cheap sport to get into, and they will grow up with it around them since they are also at the bottom of the economic classes. There is also a cultural preference towards the sport. It is the same with football....it is a relatively cheap sport, and the reason why a lot of the top players pick it up in the poorer areas is because of the fact it is just that ...cheap and ever so present. Poorer minorities will continue to dominate the sport in France. On top of it the French have a very good youth system and a proven track record churning out youngsters.
So black kids will continue to dominate the sport in France. It is not necessarily because of the colour of their skin, but in what social standing they were born. Like with Black American football and basketball players. It is a way out of the poverty. That does not make them any less French or American...This racism against these players is just nuts. They have actually worked harder to get out of their surroundings, and still they are being targeted by some vile junk like Fernandez.
that would be pretty accurate tbh.
Even from a strictly cultural standpoint, it gets dicey very quickly when you have european far right members proud to tell you that their culture is Judeo-christian in the context of looking down at the Middle East. They never spot the issue.
@LDUred Did you delete? It was a good post.
I know. That's why I joked that he meant only players older than 60 can be eligible to play.
I think this an excellent post, but I am gonna guess I’m older, because I remember the fact that Zidane was actually Algerian being brought up quite often.
They don't.
But profound (and in many cases defiant) ignorance is part and parcel of what makes these people what they are.
They represent a sort of non-organized (for the most part) anti-enlightenment in the current era.
And if you point that out to them - they will call you "woke" and think they've done a great service to "true" democracy.
We live in very dangerous times (well, all times have been pretty dangerous, I suppose) - but we live in times that many of us didn't see coming a couple of decades ago (when we kinda thought we had gone past a certain point...but no, we have not, not at all).
I've been to Argentina multiple times and I never saw a black person there which is a bit weird specially when you look at other south American countries where a big part of their population is of African descent. Does anyone know the reason for this? Why is Argentina the exception in this regard compared to their South American neighbour's?
It's rather peculiar that people in here are actually mocking the idea that European ethnic groups exist.
Maybe you could respond to people so they could understand what you really mean but you seem unable to clarify?
Indeed. It'd kind of discrimination turned upside down bc some of those countries taking jabs at it are in essence saying how "pure" they think they are in comparison. Fecked up when you think about it.
I’m curious about this as well? Maybe they meant the actions of specific member countries? Or maybe they are confusing NATO with UN forces?
NATO for nearly 50 years had zero actual actions. Then they have enforced no fly zones and Naval blockades to help put an end to some rather infamous genocidal conflicts; ushering in many of the more notable peace treaties related to European stability we have today.
It's time to get even more granular.
Please take the off topic NATO discussion to the CE
I believe you can say the same about Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay (all right next to Argentina), and in a lesser degree Peru, Bolivia, Mexico. Argentina received slaves although they quickly abolished it. Some of the national heros are afrodescendants. Then in early 1900 they received millions of inmigrants from Spain/Italy and other parts of europe.
There are black people living, although most are migrants, not descendants of people of that era.
I don't think that there is any issue with the idea of European ethnic groups existing at some point a long time ago. The issue is when you state that people in 2024 are actual Europeans and refers to groupings of people that are only relevant if you go back 4000 years ago. And the issue with this is that genetically you will struggle to find people that aren't very mixed because during that period of time there has been a lot of exchanges between Asia, Europe and Africa but more importantly from a cultural standpoint anything that is thousands of years BC is highly irrelevant to 2024. In 2024 a yoruba that has never left Nigeria has more in common with an Irish than anyone from Europe 4000 years ago, they share more culture than the groups you listed.
Lot of words to say white.
Are you guys white?Trying to call someone else backwards and using the term 'coloured'
I'm not and don't have an issue with he word in the context I have used it in.
I was responding to that person specifically.
My apologies to the admins for responding, and I will try to refrain from getting drawn off topic.
But the reason people are bringing stuff like that into the discussion is Argentinas VP, instead of issuing an apology on behalf of her nation , made a big attack statement on not being reprimanded by imperial colonist countries when Argentina has never imposed their beliefs on others the way the French have (I presume it is the French she is referring to)
If you don’t rightly keep it shut down it will spiral into imperialism debates, etc. Which, maybe is what the VP wants, to distract.
What it makes wonder is how isolated and indoctrinated are Argentinians? She made it sound like Argentina had stayed above the whole colonization “thing”, stayed out of everyone else’s business, and by implication were “just/only” Argentinian.
It was a … weird defensive statement to come out with; not by the leader of the football administration, but of their country.
Her whole “We stand by Enzo and his fellow players!” Shtick is NOT going to be helpful.
But the reason people are bringing stuff like that into the discussion is Argentinas VP, instead of issuing an apology on behalf of her nation , made a big attack statement on not being reprimanded by imperial colonist countries when Argentina has never imposed their beliefs on others the way the French have (I presume it is the French she is referring to)
If you don’t rightly keep it shut down it will spiral into imperialism debates, etc. Which, maybe is what the VP wants, to distract.
What it makes wonder is how isolated and indoctrinated are Argentinians? She made it sound like Argentina had stayed above the whole colonization “thing”, stayed out of everyone else’s business, and by implication were “just/only” Argentinian.
It was a … weird defensive statement to come out with; not by the leader of the football administration, but of their country.
Her whole “We stand by Enzo and his fellow players!” Shtick is NOT going to be helpful.
I'm Proto-Indo-European.
I'm ethnically part of the primordial soup.
Not a western hunter gatherer?