Antony (out) | LOAN to Real Betis

Presumably he was highly regarded at Ajax. Technically, they should be on to pay €30m for him if the wages were not obscene. If we can cover half his wages for 2 seasons (length of his contract in the summer), they should be willing to sign him back.

Jesus - I just realised that the season we bought Antony, Ajax sold Gravenberch for 18m and then next season sold Kudus for 41m; Alvarez for 38m and Timber for 40m.

We could have bought any combination of players for the 95m we paid and done quite well for ourselves. Imagine if we had Kudus, Alvarez and Gravenberch.
 
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Roboc7 said:
I don’t think managers care too much about how much someone costs, when Murtough and Arnold agreed the Casemiro and Antony deals it’s just confirmed my suspicions that they were just Woodward 2.0. ETH obviously takes some of the blame but the people who really deserve it are Murtough and Arnold.
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Nor should they really, the only time it should matter is opportunity cost. ‘If we spend this on Antony, you can’t have the full back you wanted as well’, that sort of thing.
 
Sarni said:
So he was never consulted on his valuation and was completely oblivious to the fee we were going to pay?

Genuinely asking as you seem to have been part of the process so will have the knowledge. You were actually there and then when the transfer was closed so will be interesting to hear what really happened.
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He was the one signing it.
 
I think it’s unfair to single out ETH or anyone else, they are collectivity culpable to the highest level. Any other business that wasted and lost that much money would have sacked everyone responsible long before they finally went. It’s ok saying “lesson learned” … but obviously not as it was 1 of many atrocious decisions.

We can only hope the new regime has an ounce of common sense and avoids these absurd transfer decisions.
 
This signing alone should already tell us everything we need to know about Arnold, Murtough and ETH. We shouldn't have wasted 3 years on ETH. The signs were clear. We were slow to realised.
 
Tallis said:
Presumably he was highly regarded at Ajax. Technically, they should be on to pay €30m for him if the wages were not obscene. If we can cover half his wages for 2 seasons (length of his contract in the summer), they should be willing to sign him back.

Jesus - I just realised that the season we bought Antony, Ajax sold Gravenberch for 18m and then next season sold Kudus for 41m; Alvarez for 38m and Timber for 40m.

We could have bought any combination of players for the 95m we paid and done quite well for ourselves. Imagine if we had Kudus, Alvarez and Gravenberch.
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I’d only take Kudus from those options. Alvarez is gash. Gravenberch it’s taken a while to get started. Even Klopp couldn’t get a tune out of him
 
He didn't slide just to ensure he passed it to the keeper, he also made sure that if the keeper somehow couldn't catch the ball, it would result in a goal kick. Double safety for southampton.

So it was a weak shot off target but towards the keeper. You cant make that shit up. Even Messi cant do that while sliding. World class accuracy. Football genius. Timing master.
 
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Thank you so much Betis. Hopefully he does well there so they can sign him permanently. Its going to be a huge financial loss if that happens but I do not care.
 
Same as other first team players we’re trying to loan out like Rashford and Malacia, we could do with him performing there to generate some interest. Right thing to loan him out in the hope he does as it seems there’s no way back here.
 
Sums it up if his final contribution to United was missing an open goal, whilst 1-0 down to the bottom of the league at home.

The genuine worst signing ever.
 
So on a 5 year contract we're still likely to be owing £30 million or so on the books for him in the summer, with his wages we're not going to be getting anything like that.

Just hope he does ok so we can at least loan him out again next season, and this is the last we've seen of him in a United shirt.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
So on a 5 year contract we're still likely to be owing £30 million or so on the books for him in the summer, with his wages we're not going to be getting anything like that.

Just hope he does ok so we can at least loan him out again next season, and this is the last we've seen of him in a United shirt.
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A loan to Betis followed by a loan to Turkey and a last one to Brazil before his contract ends.
 
Don’t really get what we benefit from loaning him. Maybe some wages off the books. I know he’s crap but we’re not exactly overflowing with options on that side.
 
Solius said:
Don’t really get what we benefit from loaning him. Maybe some wages off the books. I know he’s crap but we’re not exactly overflowing with options on that side.
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Agreed he is bad but we literally have no depth in that position unless rashford us reintegrated
 
Idxomer said:
A loan to Betis followed by a loan to Turkey and a last one to Brazil before his contract ends.
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Yes, and that's if we're lucky.

It's mad if we'd paid £80 for an established top player and they'd declined with age quicker than we thought then you'd say fair enough lets loan him out and run his contract down, but Antony is still only 24, so in theory his peak years should be coming up, but he's looking at been passed around until some club picks him up for nothing in a couple of years, and then almost certainly vanishing into obscurity

You want your players to do well, and convince yourself they are great, but if you're honest you could see how limited Antony was after a few games, I just don't know what our scouts were seeing.
 
Solius said:
Don’t really get what we benefit from loaning him. Maybe some wages off the books. I know he’s crap but we’re not exactly overflowing with options on that side.
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I agree! As an attacking substitute to play RWB or AM he has actually added value. Clearly we can do so much better but we are one or two injuries away from an attacking crisis
 
Solius said:
Don’t really get what we benefit from loaning him. Maybe some wages off the books. I know he’s crap but we’re not exactly overflowing with options on that side.
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Jim gets to show how efficient he is in saving cash.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Yes, and that's if we're lucky.

It's mad if we'd paid £80 for an established top player and they'd declined with age quicker than we thought then you'd say fair enough lets loan him out and run his contract down, but Antony is still only 24, so in theory his peak years should be coming up, but he's looking at been passed around until some club picks him up for nothing in a couple of years, and then almost certainly vanishing into obscurity

You want your players to do well, and convince yourself they are great, but if you're honest you could see how limited Antony was after a few games, I just don't know what our scouts were seeing.
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I doubt he has been scouted extensively. EtH was given the full backing and knew him inside out. He would not be here without the manager, so i am not sure why you lay the blame on the scouts, when our ex manager had so much power on transfers. It was obviously not a scout recommendation, but someone our manager wanted and got his wish.
 
Foolsgold21 said:
Sums it up if his final contribution to United was missing an open goal, whilst 1-0 down to the bottom of the league at home.

The genuine worst signing ever.
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When he scored on his debut against Arsenal I was absolutely giddy. Thought we'd bagged ourselves next Brazilian wonder kid. What a massive let down.
 
We'll get absolutely nothing for him. Not a penny. He'll be loaned out until his contract expires.

But at least we'll not see another transfer as monumentally stupid as this again. Not on Ineos' watch
 
izec said:
I doubt he has been scouted extensively. EtH was given the full backing and knew him inside out. He would not be here without the manager, so i am not sure why you lay the blame on the scouts, when our ex manager had so much power on transfers. It was obviously not a scout recommendation, but someone our manager wanted and got his wish.
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I'm sorry but you don't go and pay £80 million on a player without scouting them extensively, or at least I'd like to think not, because what happens if the manager is a terrible judge, and also ends up been a terrible manager, you're then left with a mess to sort out.

If Antony had cost £30 million then maybe at a push you'd just take a chance purely on what the manager says, but this was crazy money, and clearly money we couldn't afford given what's happening now.

If Amorim is wanting Gyokeres, I'd like to think we're turning it inside out before we commit to it.
 
Really poor deal, we have so few players to cover the wing back positions and we will still pay part of his wages.

For what benefit? The hope that he suddenly sets La Liga alight and gets a massive offer? I doubt it.
 
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Solius said:
Don’t really get what we benefit from loaning him. Maybe some wages off the books. I know he’s crap but we’re not exactly overflowing with options on that side.
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It is a bit weird. Malacia and Antony generally offer very little, but what benefit do January loans give us right now?
 
DWelbz19 said:
It is a bit weird. Malacia and Antony generally offer very little, but what benefit do January loans give us right now?
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Agreed, if we don't follow up their exits with some transfers in we're going to run the few options we have in those positions into the ground.

I just have no faith in getting players in despite the desperate need, especially at LWB.
 
Not really sure what the point of a short term loan is. Even as poor as he is, he can be of value just by providing 15-20 minute breaks for some of the starters towards the end of games.

Maybe the hope is that he shines and attracts some serious interest in the summer.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
I'm sorry but you don't go and pay £80 million on a player without scouting them extensively, or at least I'd like to think not, because what happens if the manager is a terrible judge, and also ends up been a terrible manager, you're then left with a mess to sort out.

If Antony had cost £30 million then maybe at a push you'd just take a chance purely on what the manager says, but this was crazy money, and clearly money we couldn't afford given what's happening now.

If Amorim is wanting Gyokeres, I'd like to think we're turning it inside out before we commit to it.
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Have you been living under a rock the last 10 years? We are in a mess for a reason, why do you think our squad is as bad as it is?

There is no way Antony was scouted extensively, because the serious links started with ETH. And that was a couple of months before his arrival. Our first bid for Antony was far lower than 80m, we overspent in the end, to get the man our manager wanted. Ajax did not want to sell after July, and we were desperate and paid the price. No way in hell did anyone at United outside ETH think this guy was worth above 40m. We dont have the best scouts around, but they are not fools either to push for this clown at that price. United always backed their managers if realistic, from Moyes to ETH. That is the one constant in the transfer market, our managers got plenty of players they wanted (outside the pipe dreams like Cesc, Bale etc). Hopefully this will change going forward. Our managers should be coaches, with some inputs, but not full time managers with ridiculous power on various aspects outside the pitch.

Gyokeres is a different matter, because he is arguably the hottest striker around that is not playing at a top club. I think we would be interested in him regardless of Amorim. But Antony was not one of the hottest wingers around. Good and talented player in the Eredivisie, nothing more.
 
Loaning out without option a player who cost 95m € and has another 2 1/2 years on his contract feels like absolutely horrible business. We are not gaining anything from it, and we will still need to replace him without having received anything.
Let's hope he explodes with goals there and some club actually buys him in summer.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
I'm sorry but you don't go and pay £80 million on a player without scouting them extensively, or at least I'd like to think not, because what happens if the manager is a terrible judge, and also ends up been a terrible manager, you're then left with a mess to sort out.

If Antony had cost £30 million then maybe at a push you'd just take a chance purely on what the manager says, but this was crazy money, and clearly money we couldn't afford given what's happening now.

If Amorim is wanting Gyokeres, I'd like to think we're turning it inside out before we commit to it.
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I think Gyokeres wouldn't be a flop like Antony. He is scoring regularly in the league and Champion League. For someone who can put a few goals past City as well as some elite European team, I think his risk is so much lower.
 
Benefit of the loan is the hope that he shines, or does enough to generate some serious interest in the summer. More chance of him looking good there than with United.

Also assuming Betis cover say £120k a week of his wages, then that saves us £3m. Might be more if there is a loan fee as well.
 
Are we just going to loan everyone out and hope they have a good finish to the season to boost interest in the summer?
 
It’s a terrible sign for the state of our squad when we literally struggling to give players away. We paid nearly £90m for this guy and the best suitor is Real Betis!
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
I'm sorry but you don't go and pay £80 million on a player without scouting them extensively, or at least I'd like to think not, because what happens if the manager is a terrible judge, and also ends up been a terrible manager, you're then left with a mess to sort out.

If Antony had cost £30 million then maybe at a push you'd just take a chance purely on what the manager says, but this was crazy money, and clearly money we couldn't afford given what's happening now.

If Amorim is wanting Gyokeres, I'd like to think we're turning it inside out before we commit to it.
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We panicked when buying Antony. We wouldn’t have gone anywhere near him or anyone if we still had MG. We was desperate for a left footed RW, and since they was hard to come by we had to splash a lot of money for one.
 
DeludedOptimism said:
It’s a terrible sign for the state of our squad when we literally struggling to give players away. We paid nearly £90m for this guy and the best suitor is Real Betis!
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We’re just a very poor run club. We love wasting money. I think Mctominay must be the only player we’ve sold in like the past 10 years where we’ve actually made decent profit from. Can’t remember anyone we’ve signed recently and sold for more than we’ve signed them for.
 
izec said:
Have you been living under a rock the last 10 years? We are in a mess for a reason, why do you think our squad is as bad as it is?

There is no way Antony was scouted extensively, because the serious links started with ETH. And that was a couple of months before his arrival. Our first bid for Antony was far lower than 80m, we overspent in the end, to get the man our manager wanted. Ajax did not want to sell after July, and we were desperate and paid the price. No way in hell did anyone at United outside ETH think this guy was worth above 40m. We dont have the best scouts around, but they are not fools either to push for this clown at that price. United always backed their managers if realistic, from Moyes to ETH. That is the one constant in the transfer market, our managers got plenty of players they wanted (outside the pipe dreams like Cesc, Bale etc). Hopefully this will change going forward. Our managers should be coaches, with some inputs, but not full time managers with ridiculous power on various aspects outside the pitch.

Gyokeres is a different matter, because he is arguably the hottest striker around that is not playing at a top club. I think we would be interested in him regardless of Amorim. But Antony was not one of the hottest wingers around. Good and talented player in the Eredivisie, nothing more.
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Yeah well we're idiots aren't we, still Antony seems an outliner even in the mess of the last 10 years, at least all the other big money signings were out there for all to see as top players before we got them so we could justify the money paid,.

If I remember correctly we'd valued Antony at about 25 million, yet paid £80 million, there's backing your manager, and then there's been stupid.

You say that about Gyokeres but this is something we can't get wrong, and it's too simple to just say what worked at Sporting for Amorim with him is sure to work at United, it could very easily not.
 
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