I don't recall him taking a lot of shots and putting the majority wide of the goal or hitting tame efforts straight at the keeper.
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- 2
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It's not as bad as that it's why I said pretty shit. It's just different skills imo. Some players can have a top first touch, great pass etc. but at the same time quite shit with his shooting. Shooting is basically all about power and precision imo. Ozil had the precision but not the power I think. That's why he didn't take lot of shot but prefered to pass it to someone who can shoot like Ronaldo.
Not only Ozil but I'd say Mata as well. Great technique, a true baller but can't say the same about shooting.
Mata was a pretty good set piece taker and that requires a good striking technique and an accurate one.
I said he's pretty the same with Ozil that means he also had the precision but not the power. His shooting was a bit weak imo. Especially when he started to lose his legs a bit.
Antony has a really nice touch, excellent close control and his passing is not bad either. But his shooting lacks both power/precision. If my memory serves me right I also said that last year after his first couple matches as well.
Antony looked best last season playing with a striker near his debut.
I think it’s something that he needs the most - the movement, hold up and positioning of a striker.
Then things like his passing could/should improve.
I think it’s something that he needs the most - the movement, hold up and positioning of a striker.
Then things like his passing could/should improve.
I think the chance he had wasn't really a shot. It was 50 50 between a pass and a shot. He hesitated.
After he scored that screamer against City?
Imo it was a shot looking at his body movement. He took the right option, went to the other corner to surprise the keeper. Just the execution was so shit.
If it was not a shot I'd seriously question his football brain as well. Sancho was already way offside by the moment he touched the ball.
Yes. It's a beautiful goal for sure but if you watch it again the shooting was still a bit weak, the ball didn't travel really fast imo. And then how many similar shots he took that didn't even hit the goal?
Anyway imo you got a bit too personal and defensive with your opinion here so we should agree to disagree then I think. It's just pointless to continue.
To me the lack of power suggests one of those moments when you change your mind mid shot. Happens to me several times. His foot is doing one thing but his brain another. But yeah in actual matches thats inexcusable. I dont think his shot is actually that crap though.
Agree maybe. That might explain how bad it was imo. Tbh my first thought after watching that was it's even worse than amateur level. Most of us would do better imo.
Close. He goes for curlers because he knows his passing/crossing is piss poor. So he sticks to one thing that he is pretty good at - not shooting in general, but curlers. And tries too hard to convert from any situation to a possible curler shooting position.
When he runs with the ball you know he will cut back because there is no pass he is capable of making.
Utterly limited player. He looks like he spent the entire career up to now training 2/3 aspects of the game and neglecting every other aspect. I admire some people's positivity if they think he can just "work" on those weaknesses, because a youngster he is not.
He's been here a year so I guess we can already think about which aspects of the game he improved upon in that time. Anyone?
"got a bit too personal"
How so?
I still believe in his potential but he needs to learn from Saka that you get more success coming inside if you are a legitimate threat round the outside.
He's awful. I'm honestly amazed at what some see in him that think he can be a top player. His limitations are much bigger than his actual strengths.
His best attribute is probably his intensity in the press and tracking back. That's the only quality that's of any real value to us. Well that and having a left foot.
I said it last season, people hide behind the lack of striker but no attack at this level will be dangerous if he's occupying one of the front three positions. Can't create, dribble into threatening positions and is a poor finisher. This puts an unreal amount of pressure on the others to make up the slack for Antony.
He's like the new version of Fred where half thought he was shit (the correct half) and the other half swore he was a top player. Just like in the case of Fred, the Antony believers will have nowhere to hide after another underwhelming season where he shows the same limitations.
His best attribute is probably his intensity in the press and tracking back. That's the only quality that's of any real value to us. Well that and having a left foot.
I said it last season, people hide behind the lack of striker but no attack at this level will be dangerous if he's occupying one of the front three positions. Can't create, dribble into threatening positions and is a poor finisher. This puts an unreal amount of pressure on the others to make up the slack for Antony.
He's like the new version of Fred where half thought he was shit (the correct half) and the other half swore he was a top player. Just like in the case of Fred, the Antony believers will have nowhere to hide after another underwhelming season where he shows the same limitations.
Really really really needs to step it up.
If he has a poor 2nd season, we need to look for a new RW.
That’s how ruthless we need to be to progress.
If he has a poor 2nd season, we need to look for a new RW.
That’s how ruthless we need to be to progress.
I have my doubts about him as a player of sufficient quality for a club like Manchester United.
He's going to be ETH's Maguire isn't he, hell it might even be worse if this continues considering the first eleven is starting to look really good now and his game has a lot of weaknesses. Seriously stuck out like a sore thumb every time he would get the ball against a set defense yesterday with 2 or 3 United players around him making runs and he just did what he always does and curled it wide. That's precisely what teams want to happen ffs.
Can tell already it’s going to be a rough season with him. I couldn’t watch the game against Arsenal but his scuffed shot early on just about sums him up, end product is virtually nonexistent but he’s a really bad finisher and with Wan Bissaka at RB we are going to be severely lacking a threat on the right.
Buying him for that price tag was such a mistake from all involved.
Buying him for that price tag was such a mistake from all involved.
Do people sign up for this forum just to spout this stuff now?
Horrific player, especially relative to his price tag.
Him and Mount raise serious question marks about Ten Hag’s talent identification. Both fall into the expensive mediocrity bracket.
Him and Mount raise serious question marks about Ten Hag’s talent identification. Both fall into the expensive mediocrity bracket.
Mount is a good player there is no doubt there. Antony on the other hand.
Mount hasn't even played a real game for us yet
I don't rate him very highly and since last season I've made my peace with his talent level being "just okay" and nothing exceptional. That's not to say he won't improve on some things - at least I hope he does - but expecting him to become a dominant world class RW will most likely never happen and I pity those who are.
What I would like to see however, is for us as a team to move the ball quicker from side to side giving him some isolation with the fullbacks. Essentially what Arsenal do with Saka. Watching us play it almost looks like we get the ball to him when his side of the pitch is crowded, and with him not trusting his dribbling abilities pass it back to AwB or tries to cut inside for the curler.
I think if he's isolated more frequently with the LB then he will get a bit more confident in taking them on, maybe even use his right foot as well when the space opens us.
Big next season for him.
What I would like to see however, is for us as a team to move the ball quicker from side to side giving him some isolation with the fullbacks. Essentially what Arsenal do with Saka. Watching us play it almost looks like we get the ball to him when his side of the pitch is crowded, and with him not trusting his dribbling abilities pass it back to AwB or tries to cut inside for the curler.
I think if he's isolated more frequently with the LB then he will get a bit more confident in taking them on, maybe even use his right foot as well when the space opens us.
Big next season for him.
I'm not seeing any signs of him being able to step it up. And after he's continued to spend another season dragging down the team's attack it could have already been costly.
If you really want ruthless then there's a quality left-footed finisher at the club already.
Post like these drive me up the wall.
as if the Antony was great last year and we are coming for him for his Pre Season form.
He wasnt great last year and has equally been as bad in pre season. For our sake I hope he turns it around but I just dont see it in him. His lack of pure speed is a killer given his other deficiencies.
And posts like yours drive me up the wall. Typical, impatient, knee jerkism. Give the lad a couple of seasons before losing your shit. Christ.
Good for you. Keep waiting a couple season.
I dont expect a team to pay such a high price for a player and wait for them to develop to being useful. Unless the team is already winning like Man City, we dont have that luxury.
I understand calls for "knee-jerkism" after first few months but he's been here for a season and I think it's fair to make judgment at this point, don't you think?
The problem with Antony is his weaknesses are not exactly going away at his age. Apart from decision making I don't think we should expect him to improve significantly in other areas.
He doesn't set his own fee, everyone knows we paid way too much.
Seems like a ridiculous assumption to make. A player who is 23 Can improve enormously in terms of decision making, composure and reading of the game, to name just three traits that can fundamentally transform performance levels. On top of that, he has one season under his belt in a top league, and that in a foreign country, new team, learning the language etc. You don’t spend 80m on a 22 year old and write him off, or say he can’t develop any more after one season. That’s just ridiculous.
Will he improve? I don’t know. But the point is, neither do you, or anyone else. We should reserve judgement until this season is over. No one is saying limitless patience, but it’s far too soon to be jumping to the sort of conclusions that people have in here. Especially when we’ve seen him play very well in brief spells already.
Why? Why should we reserve judgment until the season is over? Should we lock the thread until 2025?
Sorry but this is ridiculous approach. He's been here for a season, we know exactly what kind of player he is, what he does well and what are his weaknesses.
I am one of his biggest critics, I rate him very low (as an attacker) and this has been the case for a while - the reason for that is because it will be very very difficult for him to overcome those deficiencies. It's just unfair to expect him to improve his weak foot/passing to acceptable level, get faster, or better at dribbling. Those things don't change at his age and I think it's only fair to assume that. He will improve his decision making but to be honest, I think this "he makes bad decisions" is overblown when it comes to Antony. His decisions are driven by his limitations, to which he adapted quite well.
Long story short - all those players which struggled at his age and then became superstars always had "the tools" - Antony does not. TBH I don't blame him, I think he's doing very well considering how limited player he is, it's just someone made a very questionable decision to bring him to United.
He's a useful supporting player to have, just not an effective attacker and that is far from a controversial opinion. But again, I don't get why we should "reserve judgment" at this point.
100%.
Hes definitely got a lot of improvements to do but he actually had a decent enough season, and his workrate was always top notch. Moving to a new country, new culture and new type of football, he should be giving time in an ideal world, but this isn't an ideal world, if he starts slow he will be thrown to the wolves. Even Messi struggle in his first season in France.
What people tend to forget is the player's don't set the price that the buying club pays. United chose to pay the fee, nothing to do with him.
Let his transfer fee go lads. He's so yesterday. Declan Rice is where it's at.
I'm very fond of him to be honest, I find the general reaction to his performances to be uncalled for , im sure he'll improve even further not to mention the last season being his first in a very demanding league which used to be foreign to him, he's pretty much nailed on to only get better from here on out.
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There's a reason clubs don't sign random 17 years olds and say "he might improve".
Antony has had more than enough games for us to assess his current ability and potential.
This 'wait 2 seasons to assess' stuff is nonsense. Do you apply that rule to every player for every club?
This is pretty much my issue with Antony. In my opinion he settled really well, he's come to the PL and doesn't look like he's struggling with the intensity or pace in the way Sancho or VDB have.
He doesn't look a shell of himself. I didn't see much of him at Ajax but from the little I did see he looks the same player for us as he does with the Brazil NT, this is just what he is. Of course there is adjusted difficulty in PL.
The thing about potential is it needs to be shown before I can believe in it. Garnacho gives me belief he can be a good finisher because of the variety in his goals with both feet for example. I have zero faith in Antony being a good finisher as he seems to only be able to shoot in one way and unlike Robben he's not anywhere near as good at it.
His creativity is the one area where most of my frustration is centred when it comes to Antony. Take away his decision making and its still an ability issue. He cannot cross at all, he probably put in less than 5 good crosses all of last season. He is where counter attacks go to die, whenever we're on the break and the ball goes to Antony, I'm expecting him to do something that reduces the possibility of a goal scoring opportunity. Lastly his inability to see the open man and shoot on goal has led to so many potential chances being squandered. Even when he sees the pass its often over or underhit which messes up the chance.
I never usually jump all the way out the window on our players. Even those that I'm not necessarily a fan of I recognise their value to the team. In my opinion I've seen enough to say he's not good enough and never will be. I could be wrong but I doubt it.
Unserious footballer
There’s so much missing from this post. Firstly Antony is 23. Do you know how much footballers can potentially I prove between 23 and 25? It’s a staggering amount. It’s typically the age range where good footballers tend to put it all together. The players who are world class by 22 are the exception, not the rule. None of this is to say Antony will completely figure it out or become world class, but it’s an essential data point to counterbalance your reactionary position. Cristiano exploded between 22 and 24. Scholes and Iniesta didn’t become first team regulars, as in nailed on starters, until they were 22/23 and really started to excel at 24/25. History is full of them.
Secondly Antony has had one season, in a new league and a new country, at a higher level than he’s used to. We’ve also, thirdly, spent nearly 90m on him. All of that is to say that it would make sense to see how he develops and performs over a second season before declaring him shit or not good enough. History is littered with people writing off young players, only to end up with serious egg on their face. The movement to sell Rashford or release him on a free just 12-18 months ago is a beautiful case study in fan stupidity.
So my advice to you is to just chill out.
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