[AFC NimbleThumb]

but he needs to be accountable for being a below average footballer. He contributes nothing much going forward. I really think it is easier to convert him to a left back rather than a proper forward

Just as EtH needs to be accountable for being a shite manager.

Yes the club is not set up to boss the league anymore but the ‘it’s not their fault’ narrative around people who are doing terribly at their jobs needs to stop.

Antony just like EtH shouldn’t be here next year. Ineos need to set standards & examples.

I feel like opportunities have been missed to turn him into a decent player, he has some attributes that are overlooked, his general tenacity, willingness to tackle and win the ball, running at players these could and should be nurtured and his obvious faults like cutting inside to use his left foot to blast a wayward pot shot, his inability to connect with a striker need to be ironed out, severely ironed out. He's the worst of both worlds poor player, very poorly managed, I don't have a huge problem with his price, we over payed, we usually do, most teams do, I have an issue with our manager having two opportunities to cultivate this player into something and failing.

Good points.

Further reasons to question EtH. Since when we’re coaches allowed to pine over their left sided centre back so much that they are allowed to not coach & improve players at their disposal.

The fact Antony is still so predictable is a massive sign he isn’t being coached properly.

Yeah you're right about that but it doesn't make him good enough to be like we should have kept him

Common sense would dictate that had United been managed better & Zaha played in a better team with better players then he would have exceeded what we saw at Palace.

He was the exact type of talent that a club like ours should be signing & turning into stars.

Look at Bellingham. He was a talent at Birmingham, went to Dortmund getting better & now he’s bidding it at Madrid. Had he come to us under OgS would he be crap?

Zaha’s career is one of a missed opportunity for player & ourselves, he should have been kept & coached.

 

[UnitedRepublic]

Antony is a good player, its not his fault he is playing in a disfunctional team with no real number 9.

He’s played with Rashford as a striker , Højlund as a striker and Martial as a striker. Are you saying we should build the team around Antony and try get someone that can unlock Antony ? Maybe then he can go on his right foot and cross, maybe then he can start sprinting with the ball and use close controll dribbling instead of going around in circles maybe then He might be able to cross or maybe then he will be able to start shooting anywhere except torwards that far corner.

 

[lex talionis]

I’m in the camp that believes Antony is shite, but is it possible that he’s been coached into making shite decisions?

 

[RedRonaldo]

I think the stick Antony gets from his own fans is completely unjustified, yes we overpaid for him but to make claims like "he is the worst signing in our history" is really unfair.

Antony's output goalwise and assist wise has been hampered both by his managers tactics and the players around him not being good enough.

Put Antony in a side with proper attackers alongside him and tactics that dont stifle the attacking phase and you'll see a much better output.

Funny way to put it but Antony is actually the one who is not being good enough.

 

[DJ Jeff]

Just as EtH needs to be accountable for being a shite manager.

Yes the club is not set up to boss the league anymore but the ‘it’s not their fault’ narrative around people who are doing terribly at their jobs needs to stop.

Antony just like EtH shouldn’t be here next year. Ineos need to set standards & examples.

Good points.

Further reasons to question EtH. Since when we’re coaches allowed to pine over their left sided centre back so much that they are allowed to not coach & improve players at their disposal.

The fact Antony is still so predictable is a massive sign he isn’t being coached properly.

Common sense would dictate that had United been managed better & Zaha played in a better team with better players then he would have exceeded what we saw at Palace.

He was the exact type of talent that a club like ours should be signing & turning into stars.

Look at Bellingham. He was a talent at Birmingham, went to Dortmund getting better & now he’s bidding it at Madrid. Had he come to us under OgS would he be crap?

Zaha’s career is one of a missed opportunity for player & ourselves, he should have been kept & coached.

Ah no mate can't give you that level of sympathy - he was an average player who achieved average things.

 

[In Rainbows]

Antony's output goalwise and assist wise has been hampered both by his managers tactics and the players around him not being good enough.

Put Antony in a side with proper attackers alongside him and tactics that dont stifle the attacking phase and you'll see a much better output.

Why would you say that? What part of his game makes you believe that? You don't just get to say that based on nothing. You could literally say the same thing for every other player at the club because you haven't provided an argument.

Is it his crossing? Is it his unwillingness to probe 1-2s for better attacking opportunities? Is it his through ball ability? Is it his decision making? Is it his dribbling? What about his ability makes you believe he will do better with better attackers?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Ah no mate can't give you that level of sympathy - he was an average player who achieved average things.

Not asking for sympathy just rationale.

Zaha would have been a better player at Manchester United had he been coached by Sir Alex, I’m not giving you the sympathy of entertaining a conversation if you can’t gather such basics.

 

[DJ Jeff]

Not asking for sympathy just rationale.

Zaha would have been a better player at Manchester United had he been coached by Sir Alex, I’m not giving you the sympathy of entertaining a conversation if you can’t gather such basics.

No I see your point and I phrased my response wrong but I just mean he was never good enough to be truly what we needed, while he was better than a lot of what we've had over the years.

 

[flappyjay]

I think the stick Antony gets from his own fans is completely unjustified, yes we overpaid for him but to make claims like "he is the worst signing in our history" is really unfair.

Antony's output goalwise and assist wise has been hampered both by his managers tactics and the players around him not being good enough.

Put Antony in a side with proper attackers alongside him and tactics that dont stifle the attacking phase and you'll see a much better output.

Except he doesn't have a history of being an attacking force even for Ajax his numbers were average for a dominant team. 9 goals and 8 assits is his best Dutch Eredivisie record. His poor numbers are not surprising.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Not his fault he's played every game he's available for. Not his fault he was bought for stupid money. Not his fault that his output is shit as it was shit in the Dutch league as well. Blame the whole structure at United for such a stupid transfer and the same will be said about Mount.

I never understand this not his fault mentality. Is there any other job that the employee doesn't take accountability? With this line of thinking then its not Ten Haags fault, its not Murtaugh's fault, its not anyone's fault. Next time your boss has a go at you for not doing your job try it and see where it gets you. Well its not my fault. You hired me. And its not my fault you pay me so much. If you are hired to do a job and you are sht then you need to take some responsibility. The likes of Keane etc would be embarrassed to be so sht. They wouldn't blame Sir Alex for it. They would work like dogs and of that didn't work they would ask for a transfer.

 

[Jeffthered]

Antony is rubbish, a player who has become an example of the extended hype that surrounds football nowadays. Antony is what happens when you think you assess players with stats, data and all that nonsense. People still say he is good 'technically'. He isn't. Because he isn't a good footballer, which requires a game intelligence that he simply does not have. Compare Antony with say Thiago Silva. Or our very own Eriksen, Luke Shaw. Who are technically a better players?

Flicks, drag-backs, chops (remember that ridiculous 360 circle move he used to do?) All pointless madness and embarrassing. Garnacho has done more in a couple of apperances on the right, than Antony has all year.

But... I do think if Antony was playing under Pep, Klopp.. even Ange, Emery, Moyes.. they would get some (only some..) more out of him. ETH does not make any, and I mean any, of our players better. Look at us. He is no football coach, just a manager who loves the sound of his own voice and his place in the spotlight.

 

[Borys]

I’m in the camp that believes Antony is shite, but is it possible that he’s been coached into making shite decisions?

His decisions are direct results of his limitations - mainly Sunday League level passing ability. Notice he can only make a pass with his body in this weird "crab" shape. Every time he tries something more complicated, the ball goes in random direction and the pass is under / overhit.

He has adapted very well to his limitations, playing wide midfielder / ball progressor role. But his passing is truly awful.

 

[Telsim]

Antony is rubbish, a player who has become an example of the extended hype that surrounds football nowadays. Antony is what happens when you think you assess players with stats, data and all that nonsense. People still say he is good 'technically'. He isn't. Because he isn't a good footballer, which requires a game intelligence that he simply does not have. Compare Antony with say Thiago Silva. Or our very own Eriksen, Luke Shaw. Who are technically a better players?

Flicks, drag-backs, chops (remember that ridiculous 360 circle move he used to do?) All pointless madness and embarrassing. Garnacho has done more in a couple of apperances on the right, than Antony has all year.

But... I do think if Antony was playing under Pep, Klopp.. even Ange, Emery, Moyes.. they would get some (only some..) more out of him. ETH does not make any, and I mean any, of our players better. Look at us. He is no football coach, just a manager who loves the sound of his own voice and his place in the spotlight.

Antony's stats and data back at Ajax were kind of terrible, though. And there wasn't really any hype. I don't remember any other club vying for his signature. The only reason he was brought was because he was Ten Hag's guy. And maybe he would have been somewhat more useful if we were aspiring to play like that Ajax team, but we are not (coach's words, not mine). So, this transfer makes no sense whatsoever. The point is it has nothing to do with stats, data, and hype. Just nepotism and incompetence.

 

[Borys]

Antony is rubbish, a player who has become an example of the extended hype that surrounds football nowadays. Antony is what happens when you think you assess players with stats, data and all that nonsense. People still say he is good 'technically'. He isn't. Because he isn't a good footballer, which requires a game intelligence that he simply does not have. Compare Antony with say Thiago Silva. Or our very own Eriksen, Luke Shaw. Who are technically a better players?

Flicks, drag-backs, chops (remember that ridiculous 360 circle move he used to do?) All pointless madness and embarrassing. Garnacho has done more in a couple of apperances on the right, than Antony has all year.

But... I do think if Antony was playing under Pep, Klopp.. even Ange, Emery, Moyes.. they would get some (only some..) more out of him. ETH does not make any, and I mean any, of our players better. Look at us. He is no football coach, just a manager who loves the sound of his own voice and his place in the spotlight.

That's bs, first of all his stats were nothing amazing. Secondly - that's a weird thing to say considering Antony was clearly brought here by the manager who worked with him for 2 years.

It's just clueless manager doing random moves, it's not even like he wants us to play like Ajax.

 

[Drifter]

 

[Devil81]

Zaha was never a starter for us. He only ever shone in an average-at-best Crystal Palace.

It's also fine logic to suggest we shouldn't have kept him.

You get rid of inadequate players (of which, Zaha was one), and try to replace them.

You replace the replacement if they're also inadequate. That doesn't make getting rid of the original player an "illogical" decision.

Zaha didn't settle in Manchester. I think he was that unhappy it destroyed his time with us.

Playing wise he's been more than good enough to be part of our playing squad over the last 10 years. That said Sir Alex would have let him go as well, he never kept unsettled players to protect the harmony in the group.

 

[Glorio]

Clearly, ETH has seen more of Antony than what we are seeing. Maybe its the bright lights of OT that shrink him so he hesitates to show a wider range of talents or skills.

He seems to stick to one trick consistently now. I remember, not sure correctly, that he offered a little wider range of play when he first got here.

He really didn't - in fact, the going excuse when we all got shocked at how one-dimensional he was, read something like he needed time (a season or so) to get used to the pace of the league, and then he'd have the confidence to show what he was about

 

[sglowrider]

He really didn't - in fact, the going excuse when we all got shocked at how one-dimensional he was, read something like he needed time (a season or so) to get used to the pace of the league, and then he'd have the confidence to show what he was about

If that's the case it's all on ETH. Our scouts reported valued him at 25m.
But ETH must have insisted on him being a high priority regardless of price.... When we had Sancho, amad, pellestri all there.

 

[statpadder]

I think the stick Antony gets from his own fans is completely unjustified, yes we overpaid for him but to make claims like "he is the worst signing in our history" is really unfair.

Antony's output goalwise and assist wise has been hampered both by his managers tactics and the players around him not being good enough.

Put Antony in a side with proper attackers alongside him and tactics that dont stifle the attacking phase and you'll see a much better output.

You are not allowed to speak sense here. I guess you didn’t receive the memo. This thread has to go only one way = bashing Antony.

We have a bunch of clowns here who’ve never kicked a ball saying stuff like: He’s a championship player, he’s the worst Utd player of all time, Bebe was better.

There is no use in arguing with such people. He is a scapegoat and will remain the same until we start winning games by 3 goals and he has a goal or assist in every game.

People just don’t like his face or whatever. Just a bunch of idiots with no objectivity in their posts. I mean he gave a pass on a plate to Garnacho the other game. If he finishes that, Antony gets an assist and all the 348 mins per xG BS stat reduces by a lot.

People want him to produce in a team that has the one of the lowest goals, no patterns of play, has no movement, no overlapping fullbacks, are clueless in attack, rely on individual brilliance.

He is a modern player, a cog in a machine, not an individual player like these Utd fans want to see. He will never be good enough for them. Will probably be phenomenal in a well functioning side.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

We should try him at LB.

 

[AndySmith1990]

You are not allowed to speak sense here. I guess you didn’t receive the memo. This thread has to go only one way = bashing Antony.

We have a bunch of clowns here who’ve never kicked a ball saying stuff like: He’s a championship player, he’s the worst Utd player of all time, Bebe was better.

There is no use in arguing with such people. He is a scapegoat and will remain the same until we start winning games by 3 goals and he has a goal or assist in every game.

People just don’t like his face or whatever. Just a bunch of idiots with no objectivity in their posts. I mean he gave a pass on a plate to Garnacho the other game. If he finishes that, Antony gets an assist and all the 348 mins per xG BS stat reduces by a lot.

People want him to produce in a team that has the one of the lowest goals, no patterns of play, has no movement, no overlapping fullbacks, are clueless in attack, rely on individual brilliance.

He is a modern player, a cog in a machine, not an individual player like these Utd fans want to see. He will never be good enough for them. Will probably be phenomenal in a well functioning side.

Thanks for the input, Antony

0 goals, 0 assists

Rubbish

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I haven’t forgotten the think pieces from our resident ‘experts’ on how he’d be part of the radical shift to a possession based team and all the balance he’d offer. At the end of the season there were still some blaming everyone else for his poor form be it now overlapping RB or no striker. This lad could have Cafu playing behind him and Van Basten up front and still be shite.

It's a good example of people trying to be so smart about football that they circle back around to being dumb.

 

[Captmfla]

Antony is a great dribbler and has a lethal left foot. Once he finds his confidence and form, he will start scoring again.

 

[RedRocket9908]

You are not allowed to speak sense here. I guess you didn’t receive the memo. This thread has to go only one way = bashing Antony.

We have a bunch of clowns here who’ve never kicked a ball saying stuff like: He’s a championship player, he’s the worst Utd player of all time, Bebe was better.

There is no use in arguing with such people. He is a scapegoat and will remain the same until we start winning games by 3 goals and he has a goal or assist in every game.

People just don’t like his face or whatever. Just a bunch of idiots with no objectivity in their posts. I mean he gave a pass on a plate to Garnacho the other game. If he finishes that, Antony gets an assist and all the 348 mins per xG BS stat reduces by a lot.

People want him to produce in a team that has the one of the lowest goals, no patterns of play, has no movement, no overlapping fullbacks, are clueless in attack, rely on individual brilliance.

He is a modern player, a cog in a machine, not an individual player like these Utd fans want to see. He will never be good enough for them. Will probably be phenomenal in a well functioning side.

Its really silly that people blame him for not getting any assists when he doesnt really have anyone to assist as when he gets in position to assist someone Hojlund is usually a couple of steps behind the play, Martial is usually still jogging forward somewhere near the halfway line, and if he gets it to Rashford he'll normally try to dribble it past the defence and lose possesion to the first person he comes up against.

 

[Black Adder]

We should try him at LB.

We should try him at another club.

 

[Insanity]

Antony is a great dribbler and has a lethal left foot. Once he finds his confidence and form, he will start scoring again.

We should have signed that Antony then.

 

[lex talionis]

Antony has already surpassed Sanchez as the worst high profile transfer in the history of the club. We all get poor form spells but we’ve seen from Antony from the beginning of his ensure at OT is inability to beat a defender 1v1, which is the singular attribute above all else a winger must have in his locker.

 

[Paul778]

Antony has already surpassed Sanchez as the worst high profile transfer in the history of the club. We all get poor form spells but we’ve seen from Antony from the beginning of his ensure at OT is inability to beat a defender 1v1, which is the singular attribute above all else a winger must have in his locker.

... well that and crossing, he's nonexistent at that too. Beckham couldn't beat a name, but his chance creation was off the charts.

 

[El Jefe]

Its really silly that people blame him for not getting any assists when he doesnt really have anyone to assist as when he gets in position to assist someone Hojlund is usually a couple of steps behind the play, Martial is usually still jogging forward somewhere near the halfway line, and if he gets it to Rashford he'll normally try to dribble it past the defence and lose possesion to the first person he comes up against.

Rashford scored 30 goals last season and Antony didn’t assist him once.

Antony has 3 assists in 65 matches for us but I’m sure you’ll find a way to spin that as positive. He’s a creative black hole regardless of who plays with him.

 

[SER19]

Ive defended Antony here for a long time. In recent weeks though, he's not only far off the level needed, but is no longer showing any of the real promise I saw last season. I think most people at this time would kill for the version we had last season - when I thought alot of the criticism was unfair. In the latter stages of the season he was actively trying to be more direct and going on the outside more, and he had a great cup final running Newcastle ragged. It's a huge disappointment, as he's actually a clever player with a great work rate and nice quick passing which wide players sometimes lack, but when it comes down to what he ultimately is there for - creating- he's been so poor. Its a huge step backwards, possibly so far back that it's too far to recover from, though obviously I hope to be proven wrong there.

I can't pinpoint it, but he seems to be overthinking absolutely everything in an attacking sense now, dribbling when he should cross, crossing when he should take a man on, and going back more often than neccesary probably out of fear and lack of confidence. I'd be telling him to do nothing but get the ball into the box as quickly as possible for his next few games, leaving it up to the strikers. A couple of assists would be a good shot in the arm.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Ive defended Antony here for a long time. In recent weeks though, he's not only far off the level needed, but is no longer showing any of the real promise I saw last season. I think most people at this time would kill for the version we had last season - when I thought alot of the criticism was unfair. In the latter stages of the season he was actively trying to be more direct and going on the outside more, and he had a great cup final running Newcastle ragged. It's a huge disappointment, as he's actually a clever player with a great work rate and nice quick passing which wide players sometimes lack, but when it comes down to what he ultimately is there for - creating- he's been so poor. Its a huge step backwards, possibly so far back that it's too far to recover from, though obviously I hope to be proven wrong there.

I can't pinpoint it, but he seems to be overthinking absolutely everything in an attacking sense now, dribbling when he should cross, crossing when he should take a man on, and going back more often than neccesary probably out of fear and lack of confidence. I'd be telling him to do nothing but get the ball into the box as quickly as possible for his next few games, leaving it up to the strikers. A couple of assists would be a good shot in the arm.

Agree with this. Really disappointed with him this season.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ive defended Antony here for a long time. In recent weeks though, he's not only far off the level needed, but is no longer showing any of the real promise I saw last season. I think most people at this time would kill for the version we had last season - when I thought alot of the criticism was unfair. In the latter stages of the season he was actively trying to be more direct and going on the outside more, and he had a great cup final running Newcastle ragged. It's a huge disappointment, as he's actually a clever player with a great work rate and nice quick passing which wide players sometimes lack, but when it comes down to what he ultimately is there for - creating- he's been so poor. Its a huge step backwards, possibly so far back that it's too far to recover from, though obviously I hope to be proven wrong there.

I can't pinpoint it, but he seems to be overthinking absolutely everything in an attacking sense now, dribbling when he should cross, crossing when he should take a man on, and going back more often than neccesary probably out of fear and lack of confidence. I'd be telling him to do nothing but get the ball into the box as quickly as possible for his next few games, leaving it up to the strikers. A couple of assists would be a good shot in the arm.

Yeah, good summary. The Antony of last season was getting a crazy amount of unfair criticism. This season he’s regressed to a point where that over the top criticism is getting closer and closer to being accurate.

 

[Baneofthegame]

Ive defended Antony here for a long time. In recent weeks though, he's not only far off the level needed, but is no longer showing any of the real promise I saw last season. I think most people at this time would kill for the version we had last season - when I thought alot of the criticism was unfair. In the latter stages of the season he was actively trying to be more direct and going on the outside more, and he had a great cup final running Newcastle ragged. It's a huge disappointment, as he's actually a clever player with a great work rate and nice quick passing which wide players sometimes lack, but when it comes down to what he ultimately is there for - creating- he's been so poor. Its a huge step backwards, possibly so far back that it's too far to recover from, though obviously I hope to be proven wrong there.

I can't pinpoint it, but he seems to be overthinking absolutely everything in an attacking sense now, dribbling when he should cross, crossing when he should take a man on, and going back more often than neccesary probably out of fear and lack of confidence. I'd be telling him to do nothing but get the ball into the box as quickly as possible for his next few games, leaving it up to the strikers. A couple of assists would be a good shot in the arm.

Good post, for me it’s his 1vs1 that really holds us back, I have no confidence he will ever beat his man in a 1vs1 he seems content to delay and pass back rather than be positive.

 

[711]

Ive defended Antony here for a long time. In recent weeks though, he's not only far off the level needed, but is no longer showing any of the real promise I saw last season. I think most people at this time would kill for the version we had last season - when I thought alot of the criticism was unfair. In the latter stages of the season he was actively trying to be more direct and going on the outside more, and he had a great cup final running Newcastle ragged. It's a huge disappointment, as he's actually a clever player with a great work rate and nice quick passing which wide players sometimes lack, but when it comes down to what he ultimately is there for - creating- he's been so poor. Its a huge step backwards, possibly so far back that it's too far to recover from, though obviously I hope to be proven wrong there.

I can't pinpoint it, but he seems to be overthinking absolutely everything in an attacking sense now, dribbling when he should cross, crossing when he should take a man on, and going back more often than neccesary probably out of fear and lack of confidence. I'd be telling him to do nothing but get the ball into the box as quickly as possible for his next few games, leaving it up to the strikers. A couple of assists would be a good shot in the arm.

I would try him as defensive mid. We are desperate for one after all, and the qualities he has seem to suit, he reads the game, tackles, keeps possession well and is press-resistant, with the energy we need to boot. I obviously don't know if it would work out but I'd give it a try.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

We should try him at another club.

That too

 

[Castia]

Apparently he's on 200k a week here. He was on 25k a week at Ajax

20m player at best, he'd do well to forge a career at Everton or Fulham

Awful player

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Apparently he's on 200k a week here. He was on 25k a week at Ajax

20m player at best, he'd do well to forge a career at Everton or Fulham

Awful player

Would like to know who's the genius behind offering him 8x of his salary at the time.

 

[Marwood]

Ive defended Antony here for a long time. In recent weeks though, he's not only far off the level needed, but is no longer showing any of the real promise I saw last season. I think most people at this time would kill for the version we had last season - when I thought alot of the criticism was unfair. In the latter stages of the season he was actively trying to be more direct and going on the outside more, and he had a great cup final running Newcastle ragged. It's a huge disappointment, as he's actually a clever player with a great work rate and nice quick passing which wide players sometimes lack, but when it comes down to what he ultimately is there for - creating- he's been so poor. Its a huge step backwards, possibly so far back that it's too far to recover from, though obviously I hope to be proven wrong there.

I can't pinpoint it, but he seems to be overthinking absolutely everything in an attacking sense now, dribbling when he should cross, crossing when he should take a man on, and going back more often than neccesary probably out of fear and lack of confidence. I'd be telling him to do nothing but get the ball into the box as quickly as possible for his next few games, leaving it up to the strikers. A couple of assists would be a good shot in the arm.

Do you not think it coincidental that he was getting a lot of criticism last season you felt unfair but now think is somewhat justified? As in Antony is now living up to the criticism you felt was was wrong. What are the chances?

Could it be people some fans last season could see the writing on wall just a bit quicker than yourself?

 

[Robbie Boy]

Zaha would have been a better player at Manchester United had he been coached by Sir Alex.

Absolutely.

 

[utdalltheway]

We should have signed that Antony then.