[redIndianDevil]

I don't think Pogba would be not suited for any tactic against any teams. He is complete midfielder, which mean he can change gear, roles. If he can't be productive near opposition goal, he can still pretty much well pulling string deep or a side play maker... Valencia is a proper wide player. He was done as winger but since he is very capable defensively was transformed as fullback. His responsibility is pretty much same. You don't see him to asked to play as side CB in 3 at back system. Just because Valencia is our best full back, doesn't mean he can play on left side.

Here with Martial, he is a forward by trade. The role Rashford was doing the last couple games were not Martial's taste. Our main forward is now Lukaku and the team is and should be supposed to work to bring out his best.

Martial doesn't switch gear into a proper winger, nor an attacking midfielder or replacing the way Lukaku play (aerial ability, presence). He ain't as effective on right wing. Martial style is suited to play either with Rashford or Lukaku centrally. Rashford & Lukaku are direct competition playing centrally. Both prefer running behind. It's inbalance having 2 central players running in behind especially when there is no width. Lukaku ain't slowpoke. He is to start if his fitness permits. Rashford would be pretty a wide player as long as Lukaku is to start.

Until we solved the left wing issue with a proper winger or lb who can cover the whole wing, Martial unless a miraculous development (becoming more like a winger), is still tactical constrained for the sake of team balance. The team balance is often neglect. SAF won the league fielding some underwhelming names quit often while higher profile player could benched when HE saw it fits.

What a load of tosh. There aren't proper old school wingers anymore in the world(they have become fullbacks or wingbacks). The very few old school wingers play for bottom half teams and they are there to spam long balls and crosses. I don't think Rashford will ever be prolific if he starts on the wing, his purple patch of goals came when he played centrally as a striker but he won't ever replace Lukaku now as Mourinho prefers a big strong forward.

What I'm more worried about is the reasons people give for benching Martial, now that he's done well as a sub he should remain a sub? where is the fecking logic in that? I'm afraid that in one of our games Rashford isn't going to do anything for 70 mins and Martial will come on for 10 min and would not be able to do anything and people will still criticize Martial for not doing anything against tired defenders or some crap reason.

 

[snk123]

Yep, a certain poster who has been spam-posting babble the last few pages and a few others really need to take a leaf out of this quote.

Great problem to have both of them.

That would make sense if we were using them both efficiently. As it stands, Martial has played 25 minutes - while Rashford has played over 175 minutes even though Martial had the better preseason. Martial also didn't get to play a minute in the Real Madrid tie even after humiliating Carvajal.

Posters have a right to vent out their frustration because Martial is just not given the same opportunities as other less talented players.

 

[Adisa]

Personally, think both Martial and Rashford's threads should have bans for comparing the two. So I know to avoid that thread.
Becoming like the Chicha Vs Berbatov nonsense.

 

[Footyislife]

Rashford has demonstrated a wider range of finishing. He's scored goals from different positions (angles), headers, free kicks etc. Most if not all of Martial goals are the same, he cuts inside to his right and curls them with the side of his right foot.

And Martial hasn't? Martial has scored with both feet and his head. Also Martial has played most his minutes on the left unlike Rashford, so if you think about it, he really has one angle to score. Not sure where you were going with that. Take a look at what you saw today when both players had their chance,. If you are not convinced by one game, then how about the statistics for 2016/17 showing Martial has better shot on target ratio, or the fact that Martial had more assists/goals than Lingard+Rashford with less playing time.

The reality is both are exciting prospects with different skill sets and playing styles. Rashford is better at his off ball movement, free kicks, pace, workrate, and tactical discipline. Martial is better at everything else. We know what Mourinho values most, and hence Rashford sees more game time. Though if my team were struggling to score, Martial would play over Rashford. And Rashford would play in games or situations were better tactical discipline is required.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

The Caf 16/17 when Martial didnt score or assist when he came on as sub: 'He needs to do better to earn his start'

The Caf 17/18 when Martial scored and assisted when he came on as sub: 'Keep him there. If it aint broke why fix it yadda yadda'

Flawless logic there.

 

[Adnandos]

Martial has earned it so why not let him play the first 70 minutes and let Rashford come on for him then. If Rashford scores, we definitely have a conversation here.

I don't think Mourinho will change anything though, knowing him. Two 4-0 wins, why would you change a thing really

 

[Bratone]

I don't think Mourinho will change anything though, knowing him. Two 4-0 wins, why would you change a thing really

Tbh Martial contributed a lot to these score lines. Goal and assist vs. West Ham and a goal yesterday.

 

[Vaibhav Raj]

In the spirit of not trying to fix what's not broken, I am okay with Rashford starting a few more games and Martial coming off the bench to wreak havoc. It remains to be seen how effective Martial will be if he starts the game. Rashford's keep trying until you succeed attitude often turns his poor performances into a decent ones, while, I feel, Martial is the type of flair player who would let failed dribbles or inaccurate shots get to his head a little. Moreover, Rashford's somewhat aimless yet many a times effective kick and run policy arms him better against fresh players who are pressing hard whilst Martial likes close control and is overly technical at times which is devastating when he comes on against tired legs but can lead to him losing possession against fresh players. Still feel Rashford is a better option to start the game with, not only because of the aforementioned reasons but also, like I said, to keep things unchanged until we really need to shuffle things around.

Having said this, Rashford was making some poor choices last game whilst Martial was up for it when he came on. Martial passed it around better, got up quickly when he fell down and tried to win the ball back and of course, his finishing in the box remains top notch. Shuffling things would be a good idea if Rashford gives another headless chicken performance in the next one or two games.

 

[redIndianDevil]

In the spirit of not trying to fix what's not broken, I am okay with Rashford starting a few more games and Martial coming off the bench to wreak havoc. It remains to be seen how effective Martial will be if he starts the game. Rashford's keep trying until you succeed attitude often turns his poor performances into a decent ones, while, I feel, Martial is the type of flair player who would let failed dribbles or inaccurate shots get to his head a little. Moreover, Rashford's somewhat aimless yet many a times effective kick and run policy arms him better against fresh players who are pressing hard whilst Martial likes close control and is overly technical at times which is devastating when he comes on against tired legs but can lead to him losing possession against fresh players. Still feel Rashford is a better option to start the game with, not only because of the aforementioned reasons but also, like I said, to keep things unchanged until we really need to shuffle things around.

Having said this, Rashford was making some poor choices last game whilst Martial was up for it when he came on. Martial passed it around better, got up quickly when he fell down and tried to win the ball back and of course, his finishing in the box remains top notch. Shuffling things would be a good idea if Rashford gives another headless chicken performance in the next one or two games.

A kick and rush aimless dribbling is better against fresh players? What a stupid logic is that. There is a reason why players like Hazard, Asensio, Neymar, Sane, Mane, Robben etc. are playing for top clubs and players like Townsend, Zaha, Walters, Lennon etc are at bottom half teams.

As for Martial letting failed dribbles and shots getting to his head, that is just your opinion and not a fact. You or myself don't know what goes on inside his head, you just assume because of Martial's demeanor but I'm not one to judge a book based on it's cover.

 

[Vaibhav Raj]

A kick and rush aimless dribbling is better against fresh players? What a stupid logic is that. There is a reason why players like Hazard, Asensio, Neymar, Sane, Mane, Robben etc. are playing for top clubs and players like Townsend, Zaha, Walters, Lennon etc are at bottom half teams.

As for Martial letting failed dribbles and shots getting to his head, that is just your opinion and not a fact. You or myself don't know what goes on inside his head, you just assume because of Martial's demeanor but I'm not one to judge a book based on it's cover.

Those are players at the top of their game. Not comparable at all with Martial's dribbling ability. I can say being direct is a very effective way to play football and you will come up and call that stupid and give Barca's tiki taka football as an example? Behave.

Who is here to state facts? You? What are forums meant for? Stating facts? Or stating opinions? You just assumed that I assumed things based off of Martial's demeanor which is not a fact and only your opinions so I am not going to pay any attention to it and call it a stupid statement. Sounds about fair eh?

 

[Eric Chin]

In the spirit of not trying to fix what's not broken, I am okay with Rashford starting a few more games and Martial coming off the bench to wreak havoc. It remains to be seen how effective Martial will be if he starts the game. Rashford's keep trying until you succeed attitude often turns his poor performances into a decent ones, while, I feel, Martial is the type of flair player who would let failed dribbles or inaccurate shots get to his head a little. Moreover, Rashford's somewhat aimless yet many a times effective kick and run policy arms him better against fresh players who are pressing hard whilst Martial likes close control and is overly technical at times which is devastating when he comes on against tired legs but can lead to him losing possession against fresh players. Still feel Rashford is a better option to start the game with, not only because of the aforementioned reasons but also, like I said, to keep things unchanged until we really need to shuffle things around.

Having said this, Rashford was making some poor choices last game whilst Martial was up for it when he came on. Martial passed it around better, got up quickly when he fell down and tried to win the ball back and of course, his finishing in the box remains top notch. Shuffling things would be a good idea if Rashford gives another headless chicken performance in the next one or two games.

I'd beg to differ though.

Now Martial is performing well so his confidence is high.But do you think he can maintain his confidence when he just play 15min as back up even though he's performing well?

The chinese have a saying 'forge the steel while it's still hot'.So give Martial more minute to perform while his confidence is high.

How long can we expect Martial to come on the 75 minute and perform like he did right now?What if he come on and can't contributed anything?

 

[ti vu]

A kick and rush aimless dribbling is better against fresh players? What a stupid logic is that. There is a reason why players like Hazard, Asensio, Neymar, Sane, Mane, Robben etc. are playing for top clubs and players like Townsend, Zaha, Walters, Lennon etc are at bottom half teams.

As for Martial letting failed dribbles and shots getting to his head, that is just your opinion and not a fact. You or myself don't know what goes on inside his head, you just assume because of Martial's demeanor but I'm not one to judge a book based on it's cover.

Cherry picking at its finest. Pedro, Luiz Suarez, Cavani, Diego Costa, Rooney (in his best form), Valencia the winger used to be... were/are at the top clubs doing well while don't possess the stylist dribbling close control skill. All those guy you mentioned were coming from smaller teams. Hindsight is 20/20

What a load of tosh. There aren't proper old school wingers anymore in the world(they have become fullbacks or wingbacks). The very few old school wingers play for bottom half teams and they are there to spam long balls and crosses. I don't think Rashford will ever be prolific if he starts on the wing, his purple patch of goals came when he played centrally as a striker but he won't ever replace Lukaku now as Mourinho prefers a big strong forward.

What I'm more worried about is the reasons people give for benching Martial, now that he's done well as a sub he should remain a sub? where is the fecking logic in that? I'm afraid that in one of our games Rashford isn't going to do anything for 70 mins and Martial will come on for 10 min and would not be able to do anything and people will still criticize Martial for not doing anything against tired defenders or some crap reason.

Did you even read, mate? The problem is we don't have the left back to support Martial, at least until Young (not that promising); Shaw (injuries may be niggling) come back. Rashford doesn't need to be exact prolific. He can contribute by stretching play, drawing defenders outside, create a little space for other player with ability to create (Mata, Mickhi). We saw that in game vs West Ham. It's not like Rashford was doing nothing all game. If Rashford were to be dropped after the performance against West Ham, then it's either it's a bad joke or someone who don't even watch the whole game. It's a myth Mourinho only want big strong forward. He was pushing for Eto'o all that time when he already have Drogba. As explained Rashford served a different tactical need. Even if he's not directly producing the goal, he make impact in games to some extend.

I asked again, whether you read what I wrote? If you did, you should see that I think Martial would start against Leicester who left plenty of space in between the wide players & their central players for someone like Martial who has the ability & the liking to cut inside and shoot. That's even if Martial failed to register a goal this game.

Instead of being insecure now, about a time when Martial would be undeservingly criticized, how about waiting till then and come defend him with proper argument? I was here after the Barcelona game pre season where Martial was not productive, the tactic that game was not suited for him: Darmian as left back; Martial himself was isolated out width; to say that his overall display was sharp & I was not worried about him. Some people might not see it and not acknowledge the point back then, but it's showing Martial is completely on different level in term sharpness compare to last season.

 

[Z_Wolf]

And Martial hasn't? Martial has scored with both feet and his head. Also Martial has played most his minutes on the left unlike Rashford, so if you think about it, he really has one angle to score. Not sure where you were going with that. Take a look at what you saw today when both players had their chance,. If you are not convinced by one game, then how about the statistics for 2016/17 showing Martial has better shot on target ratio, or the fact that Martial had more assists/goals than Lingard+Rashford with less playing time.

The reality is both are exciting prospects with different skill sets and playing styles. Rashford is better at his off ball movement, free kicks, pace, workrate, and tactical discipline. Martial is better at everything else. We know what Mourinho values most, and hence Rashford sees more game time. Though if my team were struggling to score, Martial would play over Rashford. And Rashford would play in games or situations were better tactical discipline is required.

Martial is the more lethal finisher right now but my point was about their range of scoring rather than their conversion rate.

 

[Oscie]

Personally, think both Martial and Rashford's threads should have bans for comparing the two. So I know to avoid that thread.
Becoming like the Chicha Vs Berbatov nonsense.

They're effectively competing for the same place. Should there be thread bans for comparing defenders, midfielders or other attacking players too?

If thread bans are to be handed out, my vote would be for people who get pathetically precious when people want to discuss the performance of a player in a thread with 'Performance' in the title. It makes these threads relentlessly shit and just a pitched battle between "OMG, not United quality!" unless someone scores a hattrick and "Haterz!" from those who fear they'll not look a 'Top Red' unless they pretend everyone is great.

 

[Adisa]

They're effectively competing for the same place. Should there be thread bans for comparing defenders, midfielders or other attacking players too?

If thread bans are to be handed out, my vote would be for people who get pathetically precious when people want to discuss the performance of a player in a thread with 'Performance' in the title. It makes these threads relentlessly shit and just a pitched battle between "OMG, not United quality!" unless someone scores a hattrick and "Haterz!" from those who fear they'll not look a 'Top Red' unless they pretend everyone is great.

The debate is becoming poisonous with people feeling the need to deride either player.
As I said earlier, Mourinho has to find a way to get both playing at the same time.

 

[Kevin]

The Caf 16/17 when Martial didnt score or assist when he came on as sub: 'He needs to do better to earn his start'

The Caf 17/18 when Martial scored and assisted when he came on as sub: 'Keep him there. If it aint broke why fix it yadda yadda'

Flawless logic there.

Shocking isn't it. If Mourinho thinks the same way this guy needs to be smart, like some other big players that have made difficult decisions and flourished since then, and get the hell out of here if he knows whats good for him.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Shocking isn't it. If Mourinho thinks the same way this guy needs to be smart, like some other big players that have made difficult decisions and flourished since then, and get the hell out of here if he knows whats good for him.

The 'it's easy to score against tired legs' brigade would all sing a different tune at various points in their Caf history, about how a youngster needs persisting with even if he makes some mistake and shouldnt be benched, I'd wager.

 

[Kevin]

The 'it's easy to score against tired legs' brigade would all sing a different tune at various points in their Caf history, about how a youngster needs persisting with even if he makes some mistake and shouldnt be benched, I'd wager.

Yap, because it's not normal logic (how can it be? it basically means no matter what you do please stay as a sub forever or leave because you're crap at being a sub), it's logic used in specific situations. I am just hazarding a wild guess but in this case it might be because a player they luv luv luv and came through our ranks is in direct competition with his spot. Another reason might be because some posters have invested too much in taking him apart during the past season that they are simply being stubborn because I have only seen one person ever admitting his mistake on here during my decade of the caf and that's me.

 

[AgentP]

Martial has to start for me. The only decision Jose has to make is whether to drop Rashford or Mata. Mata has not directly contributed to any goal but he keeps the ball well and moves it around. Rashford has been creating chances but could he do it on the right wing too is a question. I'd drop Rashford because he'll be a good option to bring on later on in the game and use his pace against tired defenders. Bringing Mata on as a sub won't really make much of a difference.

 

[Litch]

Rashford was superb last season and is playing well but let's not turn this season into a Rash v Tony debate. The TEAM won last two games, neither Rashford or Martial were the single reason for this so don't see why it needs to be changed. Why change a winning side especially when the performance was great too. Martial will get his chance but sorry not at the expense of any other player 2 games in.

 

[Adisa]

Rashford was superb last season and is playing well but let's not turn this season into a Rash v Tony debate. The TEAM won last two games, neither Rashford or Martial were the single reason for this so don't see why it needs to be changed. Why change a winning side especially when the performance was great too. Martial will get his chance but sorry not at the expense of any other player 2 games in.

Rashford wasn't superb last season.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Rashford wasn't superb last season.

Very true.

I don't know why I've seen more and more people post this lately.

He had great moments(mainly towards the end of the season), but to say he was superb the entirety of the season is a massive exaggeration. Superb is someone like Van Persie in 2012-2013, Ronaldo in 07-08, etc.

 

[Litch]

Rashford wasn't superb last season.

Me and Jose think he was....

 

[Litch]

Very true.

I don't know why I've seen more and more people post this lately.

He had great moments(mainly towards the end of the season), but to say he was superb the entirety of the season is a massive exaggeration. Superb is someone like Van Persie in 2012-2013, Ronaldo in 07-08, etc.

No you've just defined what you think is superb and then added 'the entire season' to make your point with the 'massive exaggeration' which is ironic as that's exactly what you just done.....

 

[Moonred]

Confidence and rhythm is the key. He will get his start soon. Loads of quality and the application is happening again.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

No you've just defined what you think is superb and then added 'the entire season' to make your point with the 'massive exaggeration' which is ironic as that's exactly what you just done.....

I think plenty on here would agree with that definition of mine and agree Rashford didn't have a superb 2016-2017 season. On what grounds did he have a superb season? He wasn't even our best attacking player.

Unless you're judging Rashford through different standards.

 

[Litch]

I think plenty on here would agree with that definition of mine and agree Rashford didn't have a superb 2016-2017 season. On what grounds did he have a superb season? He wasn't even our best attacking player.

Unless you're judging Rashford through different standards.

On here isnt my barometer as some people only use hindsight to share their opinions. Match day posts are great, Player is rubbish to isn't he great in a couple of pages once he's scored. I'm about context and key moments in seasons. The goals and moments that mean something as they are the most important.

That's my standard and not the standard as like I said, you can choose your own.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Deserves to start the next game now as Rashford wasn't as good as the previous week and Martial has really staked his claim.

This is how it should be, the two of them pushing each other on to better things. Long may it continue.

 

[Scorpy]

The Caf 16/17 when Martial didnt score or assist when he came on as sub: 'He needs to do better to earn his start'

The Caf 17/18 when Martial scored and assisted when he came on as sub: 'Keep him there. If it aint broke why fix it yadda yadda'

Flawless logic there.

When he inevitably has a poor game: 'Loan him to Luton with an option to buy'; 'Should have taken Spurs' offer of 1.35 million + a bag of potatoes when we had the chance' etc.

 

[Dante]

I'm not sure if this is the Martial thread or the anti-Rashford thread.

Both are potential worldies. Be happy we have them.

 

[MadMike]

Personally, think both Martial and Rashford's threads should have bans for comparing the two. So I know to avoid that thread.
Becoming like the Chicha Vs Berbatov nonsense.

How to turn the caf into rawk 101

 

[Dante]

Martial doesn't have the intelligence to do that against organised defences. But he can do it when it becomes the easy option. That's why he needs to play more centrally. The more initiative you ask of him, the trickier he finds it to get into the game. Play him on the "left" with Shaw behind him and he'll be amazing. Ahead of Blind, Rashford is the better option, at the moment.

 

[Adisa]

Martial doesn't have the intelligence to do that against organised defences. But he can do it when it becomes the easy option. That's why he needs to play more centrally. The more initiative you ask of him, the trickier he finds it to get into the game. Play him on the "left" with Shaw behind him and he'll be amazing. Ahead of Blind, Rashford is the better option, at the moment.

Like Martial hasn't scored good goals against packed defences before.

 

[Adisa]

Not going to get involved in a debate about who starts but this idea, that Martial can only play well or score goals like that in certain situations is nonsensical.

 

[Dante]

Like Martial hasn't scored good goals against packed defences before.

He only scored 4 in the league last season. Zlatan's (lack of) movement was a hindrance to the people who were around him. With Lukaku, he has more space. But coming from wide left, he doesn't have the nous to make a chance from out of nothing. When the game is stretched, it's a lot easier for the lad. That's why he's second choice at the moment. Hopefully, when Shaw comes back, Martial will have a renaissance.

 

[Litch]

I'm not sure if this is the Martial thread or the anti-Rashford thread.

Both are potential worldies. Be happy we have them.

Amen to that...

 

[Dante]

Not going to get involved in a debate about who starts but this idea, that Martial can only play well or score goals like that in certain situations is nonsensical.

Why did he only score 4 last season?

 

[Adisa]

He only scored 4 in the league last season. Zlatan's (lack of) movement was a hindrance to the people who were around him. With Lukaku, he has more space. But coming from wide left, he doesn't have the nouse to make a chance from out of nothing. When the game is stretched, it's a lot easier for the lad.

Martial did not sign for us last season. Stop using it to judge his entire game. There were games last season where we faced a team who came to defend and we didn't have space and he was still very good. Stoke of the top of my head.
Under LVG, we were up against packed defences all the time with our slow build up play, our inability to get the ball up the pitch on time and he was still amazing.

 

[Dante]

Martial did not sign for us last season. Stop using it to judge his entire game. There were games last season where we faced a team who came to defend and we didn't have space and he was still very good. Stoke of the top of my head.
Under LVG, we were up against packed defences all the time with our slow build up play, our inability to get the ball up the pitch on time and he was still amazing.

Not going to get involved in a debate about who starts but this idea, that Martial can only play well or score goals like that in certain situations is nonsensical.

So...

 

[Adisa]

Why did he only score 4 last season?

Young kid has a below par season. What so hard to believe?
People are over analysing why he didn't play well.