[breakout67]

That’s decent from Lukaku but even he is probably a good bit below the best players in the league. If you combine goals and assists you’d expect a top attacking player to get close to 1.0, surely? The rest of them are miles off the pace.

For comparison

Salah - 1.21 per start
Kane - 1.02 per start
Aguero - 1.09 per start
Sterling - 0.94 per start
Firmino - 0.90 per start
Alli - 0.71 per start
Mane - 0.70 per start

I think Lukaku is the only one at the required standard, and even then he should improve. However, based on the service he gets it's quite difficult for him. He takes less shots per 90 mins than Martial, Rashford and Pogba and he gets into good positions a lot of times. There have been game where he has served lots of chances on a plate for others which they didnt convert (Leicester and Newcastle for example).

 

[bosnian_red]

Goals/minutes always look good for players that score goals coming off the bench. Morata had similarly great stats at Madrid, for the same reason. Giroud would be right up there too, in any other season. His goal/minute stats were better than Harry Kane’s at some point last season. Martial’s biggest problem this season has been an inability to look as threatening in games he starts as he does in games when he comes on as a sub. If we compared productivity in 90 minute performances he’d probably be miles away from all those players (and Sané)

Think the problem with him is he'd still generally be productive, but the productivity would mask very inconsistent performances and only coming alive now and then instead of being a threat throughout. Which isnt the worst thing on the world I guess, but where a lot of frustrations with him lie, as he can deliver key passes and score goals, but doesnt use his talent as much as he can (anywhere near).

 

[BombayBadBoy]

well yes, since we played completely different, none of our winger are getting in 1v1 situations anymore because they play way too deep, and that is taking away Martial strenght. Hes good at holding the ball up, quick layoffs,good burst of pace, deadly in 1v1 situations and a good finisher, when he almost plays behind the midfield line how are we getting use of hes abilities? he will probably be replced by a workhorse winger and when mourinho is gone and we realise we have to play pro active football Martial would be missed.

I don't know why people are turning on Martial, guy saved our face 3 years ago and its obvious his ability/potential is one of the highest in upcoming footballers.
Even Mourinho said it himself in a postmatch conference not too long ago that, when martial 'is 1v1, the RB is in trouble'.

Of course he can improve, that's where coaching comes in. Mourinho's tactics are to blame here more than the players themselves imho.

He came out after West Brom talking about how he put the team in a good position by 'setting up how to defend'.. Subtly indicating that was his responsibility going into the game thus leaving the attack to ________ a mythological coach i guess.

I really want the journalists to dig into his attacking tactics a little more to truly find out what his objectives / plans are and where the players fail to reach those and thus, placing the blame on them and rightly so.

I personally think Mou's attacking tactics are just rubbish and the players don't really have any tactical plan when they attack.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Think the problem with him is he'd still generally be productive, but the productivity would mask very inconsistent performances and only coming alive now and then instead of being a threat throughout. Which isnt the worst thing on the world I guess, but where a lot of frustrations with him lie, as he can deliver key passes and score goals, but doesnt use his talent as much as he can (anywhere near).

Yeah, agreed. Of course, he is “yong and lernin”. Having Mkhitaryan flop and Sanchez not settles has really messed us up. We were crying out for someone in his prime to help Lukaku out at the sharp end. Jesse is the right age and has bailed us out but, if we’re honest, is a level below what we needed/expected from Mkhi/Sanchez.

 

[bosnian_red]

Yeah, agreed. Of course, he is “yong and lernin”. Having Mkhitaryan flop and Sanchez not settles has really messed us up. We were crying out for someone in his prime to help Lukaku out at the sharp end. Jesse is the right age and has bailed us out but, if we’re honest, is a level below what we needed/expected from Mkhi/Sanchez.

When you see Mkhitaryan flop, Sanchez and Pogba struggle for any sort of consistency, after seeing Martial and Rashford really struggle for consistency which many put down to being young... I think that more points toward the system in place not getting the best out of them, rather then the players individually being the problem. Of course, there are valid things that each of them could do to improve, but all of them would improve in a better system. The question is how much and just how good they really are and how consistent they'd be. Sanchez was bordering world class last season and when he plays for Chile he is usually quality. What does it say that he's had basically the same impact in our squad as what either Martial or Rashford were doing in the same position all season? So it's kinda like gauging how good they really are now, is it just the system not suiting them and they would show their true level somewhere else, or is this really where they're at and the inconsistency is something that is here to stay.

My opinion is that even though both Rashford and Martial are young and learning to the point where you expect inconsistency, I do think that both are top, top talents and if either leave and go to a club that suits them, they'll show their quality and turn into top players and we'll all be wondering why we let them go/why they didn't show that here or whatever else. Of course there's plenty of space to improve, but I think both are far better then what they're showing over the course of a season, while also Sanchez is much better then what he's shown. Even Lukaku, has generally been good this season, but last season had 10 goals more while also getting more shots per game, playing for Everton managed by koeman. So even he can improve IMO, and it's not fully down to personnel.

 

[Damien]

That’s decent from Lukaku but even he is probably a good bit below the best players in the league. If you combine goals and assists you’d expect a top attacking player to get close to 1.0, surely? The rest of them are miles off the pace.

For comparison

Salah - 1.21 per start
Kane - 1.02 per start
Aguero - 1.09 per start
Sterling - 0.94 per start
Firmino - 0.90 per start
Alli - 0.71 per start
Mane - 0.70 per start

I think Lukaku is the only one at the required standard, and even then he should improve. However, based on the service he gets it's quite difficult for him. He takes less shots per 90 mins than Martial, Rashford and Pogba and he gets into good positions a lot of times. There have been game where he has served lots of chances on a plate for others which they didnt convert (Leicester and Newcastle for example).

Worst thing is, in comparison to the other attacking players nobody comes near to his games completed percentage.

Spoiler

And I think it could be an issue for us. Like imagine during Lukaku's barren streak if we had subbed him off and given Martial or Rashford 10-20 mins or so up front we might not be in this situation where we're talking about Martial leaving, and if it continues into next season with Rashford not getting that much time up front bar cup games he might be thinking the same.

That table sorted by % completed, four of our six players are in the bottom seven - with Lukaku and Pogba in the top three.

 

[TsuWave]

 

[breakout67]

Worst thing is, in comparison to the other attacking players nobody comes near to his games completed percentage.

And I think it could be an issue for us. Like imagine during Lukaku's barren streak if we had subbed him off and given Martial or Rashford 10-20 mins or so up front we might not be in this situation where we're talking about Martial leaving, and if it continues into next season with Rashford not getting that much time up front bar cup games he might be thinking the same.

That table sorted by % completed, four of our six players are in the bottom seven - with Lukaku and Pogba in the top three.

Martial 'struggles with accumulation' according to the manager, so I'm assuming that him coming off has to do with that. We also have to give Rashford minutes.

I thought him being taken off regularly for Rashford was working great until Rashford's form nosedived. That's what eventually happens with young players; there is a learning process for them.

Subbing on Martial just to make him more happy is quite dangerous when we are still not clearly winning the game. Martial is not a full fledged CF, so relying on him in tough situations is difficult.

 

[bosnian_red]

Martial 'struggles with accumulation' according to the manager, so I'm assuming that him coming off has to do with that. We also have to give Rashford minutes.

I thought him being taken off regularly for Rashford was working great until Rashford's form nosedived. That's what eventually happens with young players; there is a learning process for them.

Subbing on Martial just to make him more happy is quite dangerous when we are still not clearly winning the game. Martial is not a full fledged CF, so relying on him in tough situations is difficult.

Them rotating constantly and being subbed for each other was definitely working fine for both I think in terms of their happiness. Both know they are young but both want to get regular minutes - which they were getting. Both were having huge impacts and were our main threats. Sure, Rashford lost form, but Martial got more consistent and then when he lost form, Rashford picked it up for a few games so it would've been fine if it continued. Problem was both just went to the bench and neither have been used much since January/February, and over the last 3 months, both have probably had less and less game time then before. So it makes sense both would be unhappy.

 

[breakout67]

Them rotating constantly and being subbed for each other was definitely working fine for both I think in terms of their happiness. Both know they are young but both want to get regular minutes - which they were getting. Both were having huge impacts and were our main threats. Sure, Rashford lost form, but Martial got more consistent and then when he lost form, Rashford picked it up for a few games so it would've been fine if it continued. Problem was both just went to the bench and neither have been used much since January/February, and over the last 3 months, both have probably had less and less game time then before. So it makes sense both would be unhappy.

I felt we had a good thing when we played the 3-4-1-2 with Martial and Lukaku as a strike partnership. I think it also suited Young and Valencia who are converted wingers and so would be more comfortable with the positions of a wingback.

But I think the Arsenal game spooked the manager. We were good for 20 minutes, and then were camped in our box for most of the game. De Gea made some ridiculous saves to stop them from getting back into the game.

 

[Kazi]

Meh highlights package tbh

 

[bosnian_red]

I felt we had a good thing when we played the 3-4-1-2 with Martial and Lukaku as a strike partnership. I think it also suited Young and Valencia who are converted wingers and so would be more comfortable with the positions of a wingback.

But I think the Arsenal game spooked the manager. We were good for 20 minutes, and then were camped in our box for most of the game. De Gea made some ridiculous saves to stop them from getting back into the game.

Agree as I think that brings the best out of both Martial and Lukaku (and the fullbacks as you say, since they're our main width anyway), while also getting Sanchez/Lingard in a free attacking #10 role which suits. Plus 3 center backs for added security. The problem was that Matic-Pogba in a midfield 2 doesn't really work. Just don't think we tried that quite enough, but also not convinced in that being a long term formation.

If we had SAF in charge with this group of players, I have no doubt that he'd get a 4-4-2 sort of formation to work with them, and get 3 of the 4 (sanchez, martial, rashford and Lukaku) always on the pitch starting, then the other subbing in for any of the 3. That's the big issue IMO. Lukaku is untouchable and never gets subbed even if he is playing like trash, so neither Rashford nor Martial get any game time in what's probably their best position. Lukaku is pretty much always the lone striker, so both have to come on the wing, when neither are wingers. Then Mourinho only plays with 2 of those 4 often. It's not the signing of Sanchez that is the problem, or shouldn't be, but the way Mourinho uses them, it makes it a problem. He puts Sanchez on the left and he always drifts inwards and never holds wide (since that's his game), so we end up with no width. So instead of having a balanced side where the manager isn't worried about resting players, isn't worried about subbing people out and gives sufficient game time to the promising younger players, we are at a situation where both are unhappy because neither gets enough game time and pretty much no game time in their best positions. How many times could Mourinho have subbed off Lukaku when we were 2 up against some shit team, brought on Rashford as the striker or Martial as the striker and given random players game time to really develop, and instead just doesn't change anything (and goes defensive, to give us headaches in the games themselves).

 

[TsuWave]

Meh highlights package tbh

quite good for me, and it’s all this season only no? a season in which he’s not really had a regular place yet remains one of the most efficient members in the squad

 

[Kazi]

quite good for me, and it’s all this season only no? a season in which he’s not really had a regular place yet remains one of the most efficient members in the squad

Mate there was a deflected goal and they showed a replay of it

 

[TsuWave]

Mate there was a deflected goal and they showed a replay of it

so like most compilations then?

 

[Andersons Dietician]

The other day someone mentioned his dribbling ability was a myth and he’s never seen him have anyone on toast. He sat down that Stoke player who used to play for us but that bit where he stops the ball for a second just to let the player go by then roll it forward again. That’s silky.

Also at the weekend I mentioned he constantly got free on the edge of the box and his shouts were ignored. Think 3 of his goals in that package are from where he was standing at the weekend.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Mate there was a deflected goal and they showed a replay of it

Wasn’t that Lingard, it was Martial who set it up. Lingard hit it, that was the deflection goal I saw in that package. Was there another?

 

[Bobski]

Some great moments and he was a refreshing change from Sanchez dropping deep and coming inside every time,

Stayed high, kept the width, was direct in attacking his man.

 

[KM]

Proper Meh performance. Did well two or three times to get in the box but the final ball was awful.

 

[Ban]

He's good and it would be a mistake to sell him but I don't see a Ballon D'or potential some see in him.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

Threat all game, but nothing outstanding.

I still will be upset if we let him go. We all know how talented he is.

 

[el3mel]

Kinda of a mixed performance. Some dangerous dribbling but sloppy passing and disappeared at some point. Expected more at least during second half tbh.

 

[breakout67]

Decent game from him, very good flick on for Pogba. All the people fawning over his dribble; the reality is that he over complicated it and should have cut on his right and got an easy goal.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Bit of a mixed bag. Still so bizarre off the ball, refusing to run in behind when we have the ball in our own half. A few times players brought the ball out down the left and if he made a run into the opponents half while we had the ball he'd have been one vs one with a covering CB which is his bread and butter. Just weird.

The one time he did actually play the ball in and make a run bloody Blind blongo'd the ball out to the far touch line, so at times he can't win.

 

[3KDré]

Proper Meh performance. Did well two or three times to get in the box but the final ball was awful.

I thought he was pretty good.

 

[KM]

I thought he was pretty good.

Maybe I was expecting to perform a bit better considering Mourinho basically said pre match that anyone who performed well in this match would be in the lineup for Spurs, even if Jose was bluffing, I'd have liked to see a better performance from him and Rashford.

 

[roonster09]

Decent game from him, very good flick on for Pogba. All the people fawning over his dribble; the reality is that he over complicated it and should have cut on his right and got an easy goal.

So hard to praise Manutd player, especially one who isn't on good terms with Jose.

 

[bosnian_red]

Final ball lacking today, and would want him to be more selfish at times and just burst in the box searching for that goal more often. All the ability in the world to get in the positions, though to be fair to him, he does always play with his head up and is constantly looking to actually pick someone out rather then aimlessly playing it in. Which is good, and I do think a big part of the lack of final ball is down to system and lack of committing enough players in the box. Very often we just have 1 or 2 players in there up against 4 or 5 defenders, leading to it being very difficult to pick anyone out. Commit more players in the box, have them just know patterns of play and where to run when players are in certain positions and keep everything moving quickly and those positions martial gets himself into would yield way more rewards. Instead, the midfielders hang back, the other wide player hangs out wide and we just have Rashford in the box surrounded by oppo players. So it's hard to blame him too much for lack of final ball in games like today, when it's more a systemic issue.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

Frustrating today. Poor touches on several occasions. He seemed to be playing quite high up the pitch with less defensive duties, so can't blame the tracking back part.

He did show how talented he is too though. You can just feel that when he gets it all together, he will be a fantastic player.

 

[KM]

Final ball lacking today, and would want him to be more selfish at times and just burst in the box searching for that goal more often. All the ability in the world to get in the positions, though to be fair to him, he does always play with his head up and is constantly looking to actually pick someone out rather then aimlessly playing it in. Which is good, and I do think a big part of the lack of final ball is down to system and lack of committing enough players in the box. Very often we just have 1 or 2 players in there up against 4 or 5 defenders, leading to it being very difficult to pick anyone out. Commit more players in the box, have them just know patterns of play and where to run when players are in certain positions and keep everything moving quickly and those positions martial gets himself into would yield way more rewards. Instead, the midfielders hang back, the other wide player hangs out wide and we just have Rashford in the box surrounded by oppo players. So it's hard to blame him too much for lack of final ball in games like today, when it's more a systemic issue.

We can blame the system for him final ball when he was whizzing in crosses and there was no one to meet them. Instead he was playing loopy crosses which was cleared easily by the defender.

 

[Canagel]

There's a very good player in there. Not everything he does will come off but no question he gives us much better balance than Sanchez. The players have a better understanding with Martial. Please give this guy a run of games. I think he's potentially our best attacker. His close control and dribbling is a nightmare for defenders. Much harder to stop than Sanchez who drops into midfield and gets in the way of everyone.

 

[breakout67]

So hard to praise Manutd player, especially one who isn't on good terms with Jose.

Not even close. Martial took too many touches and moved it onto his left, when he had already got the player on toast and had the license to cut inside for a tap in.

 

[Nick7]

Average today. He's much better than he showed out there.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I thought he should have done more.

Pretty mixed bag. That pass to Pogba that was key in our 2nd was good tbf.

But so many moments of almost with him.

 

[Jim Beam]

He wasn't so good with the ball, especially first half, but he kept width and we seemed in much better shape going forward (think it also allowed Pogba more space in the game). Also looked more dangerous with him on the counter. That second goal was something that's been regular during the first half of the season.

 

[roonster09]

Not even close. Martial took too many touches and moved it onto his left, when he had already got the player on toast and had the license to cut inside for a tap in.

What tap in are you taking about? Martial's dribbling unsettled their defense, his final ball was inconsistent today though but your post sound as if he missed easy chance.

 

[Sing you a song]

Yet another missed opportunity for martial , given a start and produces another hit and miss performance.
Rashford was similar but shows more desire and commitment.
Best martial can hope for is a place on the bench on saturday

 

[Irrational.]

Some flashes of brilliance, but I don't think he's done enough to win a place in the team for Saturday.

 

[El Jefe]

I'm a big fan of his and thought he was poor.

Looks like a man who knew he had no chance starting in the cup semi final and has his heart set on leaving the club.

 

[breakout67]

What tap in are you taking about? Martial's dribbling unsettled their defense, his final ball was inconsistent today though but your post sound as if he missed easy chance.

My post was talking about the dribble Martial did that killed the Bournemouth defender's ankles late in the second half, then he took the ball on to his left and did a looped cross which was too high for Lukaku.

It had people in the match day thread going crazy, even though it was the wrong decision. The player was already committed to the left and was not covering the cut inside. Martial could have had a tap in cutting inside since the other defender was pre-occupied with Lukaku.