[Brightonian]

The thing is, even if Rashford isn't scoring goals his running and dribbling are a constant threat in every game. Martial has absurd dribbling in his locker but it shouldn't be missed that Rashford can beat a man for fun too, and does, every time he gets on the pitch.

Martial fans shouldn't worry - he'll get at least the sort of minutes he got against West Ham in every game, and if he does the same amount with it, he'll displace someone in the starting XI. Goals will always get you in the team eventually.

At some point, we will end up with the lovely problem of two players who both indisputably deserve to start and oh god what do we do. Then eventually one of them goes to PSG because the other one just keeps winning the Balon d'Or and he doesn't feel like he's getting a fair shot at that sort of individual glory while he's playing in the same side, despite the multiple CL trophies he's won us.

It's distressing, I know.

 

[pocco]

Rashford didn't have a good season last year in my opinion. He had a good game at Chelsea but missed a great chance. Then he lived off that performance for a while before scoring a good free kick in the EL. The rest of the time he was no better than Martial.

 

[luke511]

Martial gives you one half-decent dribble per 90 minutes. Rashford is better at everything else as things stand.

You have a really short memory

 

[Silas]

Rashford has outperformed Martial for literally 6 months now, I love them both but Rashford is better.

Apart from movement and industry, I wouldn't rate Rashford higher than Martial in any other field tbh.

 

[luke511]

Martial's managed to match Lingard's goal and assist league total from last season in 10 minutes

 

[Womp]

Apart from movement and industry, I wouldn't rate Rashford higher than Martial in any other field tbh.

Football intelligence, speed, more varied finishing (Martial only seems to be able to finish with that side foot finish, rarely ever see him shoot with power), ability to get into and work the channels? It's debateable but maybe even vision. For eg. had Martial started yesterday, I don't see him making the run that Rashford made for the opening goal nor the pass. He could have obviously created a goal in a different way though.

Martial is a better dribbler so everyone instantly thinks he's on another level to Rashford, he's not. The difference between the two is minimal, with both edging eachother out in certain areas.

 

[Dante]

You have a really short memory

And you have a very selective one.

 

[Womp]

Rashford didn't have a good season last year in my opinion. He had a good game at Chelsea but missed a great chance. Then he lived off that performance for a while before scoring a good free kick in the EL. The rest of the time he was no better than Martial.

What? His moments of individual brilliance and goals in the Europa is the only reason we are in the Champions League this season. The FK, the goal in the dying minutes where he cut across in the box surrounded by defenders and cooly slotted the ball into the net (can't remember who it was against).

You don't need to discount Rashford's talents to try and justify your preference for Martial. That seems to be a common theme around here. Martial is a better dribbler, is foreign and cost a lot of money, so instantly Rashford shouldn't even be in the discussion to challenge him, it's rubbish. Both are great talents and it really isn't that shocking to understand why some people would prefer one over the other, the difference isn't that big either way.

 

[dichinero]

Martial, for me is the more talented player but Rashord's application and industry is just more suited for José.

 

[Silas]

Football intelligence, speed, more varied finishing (Martial only seems to be able to finish with that side foot finish, rarely ever see him shoot with power), ability to get into and work the channels? It's debateable but maybe even vision.

Martial is a better dribbler so everyone instantly thinks he's on another level to Rashford, he's not. The difference between the two is minimal, with both edging eachother out in certain areas.

They're both rapid so I wouldn't say the difference in speed is of significance. Martial's a far better finisher in general, so it doesn't really matter that Rashford tries different techniques if they don't come off consistently. Composure is an important quality that he lacks at the moment. I'm a big fan of Marcus, but I can't imagine him carrying a team like Martial did in the 15/16 season.

 

[Womp]

They're both rapid so I wouldn't say the difference in speed is of significance. Martial's a far better finisher in general, so it doesn't really matter that Rashford tries different techniques if they don't come off consistently.

Might not be significant, but neither is the difference between the two. People need to remember Rashford is also 2 years younger, with less top flight experience in him than Martial. It's also a lot easier to work on finishing than it is to learn the fundamentals of the game (movement etc.) in my opinion anyway.

On your point about Rashford not being able to carry a team like Martial did - what exactly did Martial carry us to? An FA cup finish and the Europa League? We didn't qualify for the Champions League, we didn't win the Premier League etc. He was very good that season, don't get me wrong, but he had the whole team built around him, playing to his strengths (giving the ball into his feet). I could argue Rashford carried us to the Europa League final, allowing us to get a European trophy and qualifying us for the CL. Also, if anything this proves another thing Rashford is superior to Martial at - the ability to adapt to different tactics and expectations.

Consistency is a moot point, they're both kids, neither of them are going to be consistently excellent. Fact of the matter is Rashford is faster, even if it is a little and he has more variation to his game and finishing, even if it might not be as consistent.

I understand why some people would prefer Martial and it's true he is better than Rashford at certain aspects of the game, but the reverse is also true. I'd be happy to see both or either start, but I understand that it's not exactly practical (maybe it is, who knows). I'm just happy to have two very talented youngsters battling it out.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Martial will get his chance when injuries occur and then he must take his chance.

 

[Member 5225]

You are relentless.

hehe

 

[Womp]

Martial will get his chance when injuries occur and then he must take his chance.

He will get heaps of chances regardless of injuries. It's a long season, he will start a lot of games, as well as play a lot off the bench, as will Rashford.

 

[Silas]

Might not be significant, but neither is the difference between the two. People need to remember Rashford is also 2 years younger, with less top flight experience in him than Martial. It's also a lot easier to work on finishing than it is to learn the fundamentals of the game (movement etc.) in my opinion anyway.

Consistency is a moot point, they're both kids, neither of them are going to be consistently excellent. Fact of the matter is Rashford is faster, even if it is a little and he has more variation to his game and finishing, even if it might not be as consistent.

I'm not throwing Rashford under the bus, I just believe at this point in time Martial is the better player. Not sure. If us as fans can understand the value of movement and creating space, I can't imagine the concept would be too hard for a professional to grasp.

Of course, I was talking in terms of converting chances though.

 

[HeckneyNoodo]

Martial is the new Kagawa
Someone had to say it

Mad Winger will like to have a talk with you

 

[Red Dreams]

Martial looks on fire. My concern is he may want to leave.
Would be gutted.

Jones had to make him smile there.

 

[jungledrums]

Feck it, 4-4-2. Martial left, Mkh right, and Rashford and Lukaku up top.

 

[Frank Grimes]

He will get heaps of chances regardless of injuries. It's a long season, he will start a lot of games, as well as play a lot off the bench, as will Rashford.

Rashers is first choice.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

Rashford has outperformed Martial for literally 6 months now, I love them both but Rashford is better.

Nein. Martial has better stats in lesser number of minutes.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

The talent level is not even close when it comes to Martial and Rashford. Martial has a much higher ceiling imo, you don't score 17 goals in the English top flight at 19, otherwise.
It's just that Rashford excels in a few department that makes Mourinho prefer him more.

If I were Martial, I'd contemplate a move elsewhere for sure.

 

[Red_toad]

He lack of celebration is worrying......his confidence is at all time low

He simply needs to start. Given the easy fixtures from now till ~Sep, it's now or never.

I understand why Jose prefers Rashford. But now is definitely the time to take some risk in believing your player, let him express himself.

Just fecking start him

When has he ever celebrated a goal toward the end of a game where it's already game over? People are simply putting how they'd react onto Martial, we aren't all the same.
As for him lacking confidence? Players who lack confidence do not perform like he did!

 

[AR87]

If I were Martial, I'd contemplate a move elsewhere for sure.

Glad you're not him then

 

[Striker10]

Martial is still young. People have big faith in Martial and that is why you get people pushing him. Also last season, he was for the most part timid and that isn't him. That is the reason he didn't start week after week. He started timid. You have to take your chances. We've seen Martial look like a player again recently and so the solutions are within him. He don't have to go anywhere. Thinking of going away is not accepting your own dip in performance. Thinking that he's too big and that we should ignore last season. If you step up to the plate, you have to at the minimum do what got you there. If defenders got wiser - then you have to adapt but I think there seemed to be a cloud over him. So it would be stupidity to ask or think of a loan away.

As for his lack of celebration, he's kinda that way and he's not dumb. The game was pretty much won. Why would it have said if he celebrated like a mad man? lol. Every goal helps and now he's off the mark - which is a big plus. But there will be bigger challenges and moments and that's when you might see a proper celebration. If it had have been 0-0 with that time left - we probably would have seen more but we were pretty comfortable.

 

[Santoryo]

Nein. Martial has better stats in lesser number of minutes.

Just shows you how ridiculous this place is. Rashford kept being played last season even after putting in poor performances and finally at the tail end of the season he managed to put in decent performances but even then he still couldn't match Martial numbers despite being favored, given far more leeway and trust by his manager.

Martial numbers last season were superior to both Lingard and Rashford combined yet his season is called poor while Rashford is called consistent. People know how to throw a joke.

Then you also hear some claim that Rashford is Martial caliber talent, I mean are we for real now.

No matter what some to believe Martial is more potent and lethal than Rashford which is how an attacker should be justified and judged, not by the amount of running. Unfortunately Rashford and Lingard have hit the jackpot and have a manager who seem to value workrate over true genuine attacking threat and talent. Any other manager would probably and likely never play Lingard or Rashford over Martial.

The guy has been putting better number than Rashford at United even last season where he is criticised while Rasher praised and in less time and less favorable circumstances.

Heck even from this pre season alone despite less time and 1 start Martial has still put better numbers than Rashford. We also saw Martial put better numbers in 10 minutes than Rashford in over an hour. But he's not going to be favored over Rashford and some people will claim that Rashford has consistently outperformed him just because he gets picked regardless.

Being favored by one manager doesn't equate to being a better player, especially an unfortunate one in Martial cases with Mou not appreciating his contribution as much as he should.

 

[AgentP]

Jose needs to manage him well till the CL and cup competitions start. After that, he'll get plenty of chances due to rotation. I would start him against Swansea.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

Glad you're not him then

I'm glad too. Thanks for the insight

 

[ti vu]

And that's all well and good but the true measure for an attacking player is their productivity. Rashford and Lingard combined contributed 9 goals+ assists in the league. Martial had 10.

I would be feeling dejected as well if I were him.

No. The team is the most important thing. Benzema was not that productive yet, he is more valuable as he is better foil for a better goal scorer in Ronaldo. Clearly Lukaku should be that main goal scorer for us now.

Check out Drogba goal scoring record. That's hardly productive. Yet quite few of those not so productive seasons, I recalled Drogba played key role for Chelsea seasons. People often said Rooney best seasons were when he got more goals & assists, but IMO & few more when he showed more desire and did more sacrifice work for the team to enable other players was his best seasons.

The thing is, even if Rashford isn't scoring goals his running and dribbling are a constant threat in every game. Martial has absurd dribbling in his locker but it shouldn't be missed that Rashford can beat a man for fun too, and does, every time he gets on the pitch.

Martial fans shouldn't worry - he'll get at least the sort of minutes he got against West Ham in every game, and if he does the same amount with it, he'll displace someone in the starting XI. Goals will always get you in the team eventually.

At some point, we will end up with the lovely problem of two players who both indisputably deserve to start and oh god what do we do. Then eventually one of them goes to PSG because the other one just keeps winning the Balon d'Or and he doesn't feel like he's getting a fair shot at that sort of individual glory while he's playing in the same side, despite the multiple CL trophies he's won us.

It's distressing, I know.

Agree. It is a healthy competitive situation. Everyone have chance if they apply themselves. They're pushing each other to improve. Game time should be earned by effort, not freely given.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

Just shows you how ridiculous this place is. Rashford kept being played last season even after putting in poor performances and finally at the tail end of the season he managed to put in decent performances but even then he still couldn't match Martial numbers despite being favored, given far more leeway and trust by his manager.

Martial numbers last season were superior to both Lingard and Rashford combined yet his season is called poor while Rashford is called consistent. People know how to throw a joke.

Then you also hear some claim that Rashford is Martial caliber talent, I mean are we for real now.

No matter what some to believe Martial is more potent and lethal than Rashford which is how an attacker should be justified and judged, not by the amount of running. Unfortunately Rashford and Lingard have hit the jackpot and have a manager who seem to value workrate over true genuine attacking threat and talent. Any other manager would probably and likely never play Lingard or Rashford over Martial.

The guy has been putting better number than Rashford at United even last season where he is criticised while Rasher praised and in less time and less favorable circumstances.

Heck even from this pre season alone despite less time and 1 start Martial has still put better numbers than Rashford. We also saw Martial put better numbers in 10 minutes than Rashford in over an hour. But he's not going to be favored over Rashford and some people will claim that Rashford has consistently outperformed him just because he gets picked regardless.

Being favored by one manager doesn't equate to being a better player, especially an unfortunate one in Martial cases with Mou not appreciating his contribution as much as he should.

Rashford places his shots into row Z and no one bats an eyelid, he hits the post and everyone loses their minds. Martial simply gets on with the job with barely any credits from the fans or the manager.

 

[Santoryo]

Rashford places his shots into row Z and no one bats an eyelid, he hits the post and everyone loses their minds. Martial simply gets on with the job with barely any credits from the fans or the manager.

This place is truly bizarre.

Somehow people(some) have convinced themselves that Rashford has more in his locker than Martial the one dimensional. I mean this place can be random at time.

Martial play making skills get underrated for some reason in here. The guy has no problem playing in the middle as a second striker who can drop deep, move the ball, run with it(not kick and rush) pick a pass and so. But somehow some have convinced themselves that Martial is only good at dribbling, it doesn't get any funnier than that.

 

[kouroux]

The talent level is not even close when it comes to Martial and Rashford. Martial has a much higher ceiling imo, you don't score 17 goals in the English top flight at 19, otherwise.
It's just that Rashford excels in a few department that makes Mourinho prefer him more.

If I were Martial, I'd contemplate a move elsewhere for sure.

Also add as a foreign player who knew zero english.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

No. The team is the most important thing. Benzema was not that productive yet, he is more valuable as he is better foil for a better goal scorer in Ronaldo. Clearly Lukaku should be that main goal scorer for us now.

Check out Drogba goal scoring record. That's hardly productive. Yet quite few of those not so productive seasons, I recalled Drogba played key role for Chelsea seasons. People often said Rooney best seasons were when he got more goals & assists, but IMO & few more when he showed more desire and did more sacrifice work for the team to enable other players was his best seasons.

The part about Rooney is just bollocks unfortunately. In his best 2 personal seasons, the team ballsed it up. In his 'sacrificial seasons', he had a certain Balon D'Or winner next to him.

Last season we finished 6th in the league because no one besides Zlatan could hit a barn door, yet a guy with 4 goals and 6 assists in 18(7) appearances is often benched in favour of the 5 goals 1 assist in 16(16) and 1 goal 1 assist in 18(7).

There's no other way to slice it. Had Martial started a full season in the first XI he'd more than likely hit double digits in both goals and assists, without being the focal point of the team, personal problem and all.

 

[gajender]

This place is truly bizarre.

Somehow people(some) have convinced themselves that Rashford has more in his locker than Martial the one dimensional. I mean this place can be random at time.

Martial play making skills get underrated for some reason in here. The guy has no problem playing in the middle as a second striker who can drop deep, move the ball, run with it(not kick and rush) pick a pass and so. But somehow some have convinced themselves that Martial is only good at dribbling, it doesn't get any funnier than that.

You make a very good point Martial could be devastating as a second striker , does have serviceable playmaking ability and as Mourinho was chasing Griezman who himself is more of a support striker than a classical No10 he should try playing Martial centrally more often where he truly comes alive with bit more support and trust from his manager he could be lethal there.

Maybe there is merit in pursuing Perisic or other winger for the right side and playing Martial alongside Lukaku who knows that might have been Mourinho's plan to rotate Rashford and Martial alongside Lukaku .

 

[ti vu]

The part about Rooney is just bollocks unfortunately. In his best 2 personal seasons, the team ballsed it up. In his 'sacrificial seasons', he had a certain Balon D'Or winner next to him.

Last season we finished 6th in the league because no one besides Zlatan could hit a barn door, yet a guy with 4 goals and 6 assists in 18(7) appearances is often benched in favour of the 5 goals 1 assist in 16(16) and 1 goal 1 assist in 18(7).

There's no other way to slice it. Had Martial started a full season in the first XI he'd more than likely hit double digits in both goals and assists, without being the focal point of the team, personal problem and all.

I don't want to restart the Rooney debate, so would just summarize my opinion. Rooney as productive force is quite predictable & limited dimensional in his play. When he is not burdened by the main man responsibility, he played with more aspiration & did thing more unpredictable.

You know in football, you don't even need to touch the ball to make contribution. If somebody can get the gif of Rashford goal vs Blackburn last season, it's helpful to explain, what Lingard did. Thanks in advance. Another example is Rivaldo goal vs England in WC 2002. Ronaldo didn't touch the ball, but he completely occupied Rio which left a England defense in awkward situation thus leading to Rivaldo having that much of space to score. B Iliana run from Ronaldinho of course, but those off ball work is also important part of football. This one is clearly what Martial come short to other players. It's easy to see in game unless one doesn't watch game but go by having highlight.

 

[Footyislife]

Just shows you how ridiculous this place is. Rashford kept being played last season even after putting in poor performances and finally at the tail end of the season he managed to put in decent performances but even then he still couldn't match Martial numbers despite being favored, given far more leeway and trust by his manager.

Martial numbers last season were superior to both Lingard and Rashford combined yet his season is called poor while Rashford is called consistent. People know how to throw a joke.

Then you also hear some claim that Rashford is Martial caliber talent, I mean are we for real now.

No matter what some to believe Martial is more potent and lethal than Rashford which is how an attacker should be justified and judged, not by the amount of running. Unfortunately Rashford and Lingard have hit the jackpot and have a manager who seem to value workrate over true genuine attacking threat and talent. Any other manager would probably and likely never play Lingard or Rashford over Martial.

The guy has been putting better number than Rashford at United even last season where he is criticised while Rasher praised and in less time and less favorable circumstances.

Heck even from this pre season alone despite less time and 1 start Martial has still put better numbers than Rashford. We also saw Martial put better numbers in 10 minutes than Rashford in over an hour. But he's not going to be favored over Rashford and some people will claim that Rashford has consistently outperformed him just because he gets picked regardless.

Being favored by one manager doesn't equate to being a better player, especially an unfortunate one in Martial cases with Mou not appreciating his contribution as much as he should.

And then the same manager complains he doesn't get enough goals. It's silly stuff, play your best players in their best roles. Allow Martial to attack the inside left channel rather than waste his talents forcing him into a double team out wide with poor full back overlap. Rashford has better workrate than Messi, Ronaldo, Robben, Hazard, Dembele, Mbappe etc. Would still be stupid to pick Rashford over any of those players.

Most English players are widly overrated. Yes Rashford works hard and can run very fast, but the end product is often unpolished. His finishing was poor when he came in for Zlatan, and he really struggles to create with 10 men behind the ball. Granted there are inconsistent moments of brilliance from Rashford, but he's far to raw for us to rely on him as the LW if we want to win the PL or CL.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

@ti vu Have we descended to the Scousers level of the 'assist's assist'?

Martial' game is not perfect, he needs to be more proactive in working the space, adds more variety to his finishing and be more economical with the ball, but the fact remains that he's clearly more productive and more talented than his counterparts for the same position and should be allowed the game time to iron out his weaknesses. Where would we be now if we keep benching Ronaldo because he ran into blind alleys or wasteful with his finishing/end game? It's easier to make a talented footballer work hard than to make a hard working player talented.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

@ti vu Have we descended to the Scousers level of the 'assist's assist'?

Martial' game is not perfect, he needs to be more proactive in working the space, adds more variety to his finishing and be more economical with the ball, but the fact remains that he's clearly more productive and more talented than his counterparts for the same position and should be allowed the game time to iron out his weaknesses. Where would we be now if we keep benching Ronaldo because he ran into blind alleys or wasteful with his finishing/end game? It's easier to make a talented footballer work hard than to make a hard working player talented.

And that sums it up perfectly.

[PS: I wish I could post more than 5 times a day]

 

[ti vu]

This place is truly bizarre.

Somehow people(some) have convinced themselves that Rashford has more in his locker than Martial the one dimensional. I mean this place can be random at time.

Martial play making skills get underrated for some reason in here. The guy has no problem playing in the middle as a second striker who can drop deep, move the ball, run with it(not kick and rush) pick a pass and so. But somehow some have convinced themselves that Martial is only good at dribbling, it doesn't get any funnier than that.

I am not sure your thinking regarding play making. Link up play, Martial is not bad. Play making, he's average. Easy to see in France squad, Griezmann is superior in less linking up play; Payet & Pogba are way superior. Stretching play out wide, getting cross in Dembele & Koman are superior. If Martial level,of play making is good for you then Welbeck is very good play maker. Of course, Welbeck is not.

Martial strength is when he's running with the ball between the defense at speed. I agree He can play behind a target like Lukaku who can hold up play & prefer stay with the CB and run in behind than a Zlatan who like to drop back and made less run in behind.

 

[itso 7]

@ti vu Have we descended to the Scousers level of the 'assist's assist'?

Martial' game is not perfect, he needs to be more proactive in working the space, adds more variety to his finishing and be more economical with the ball, but the fact remains that he's clearly more productive and more talented than his counterparts for the same position and should be allowed the game time to iron out his weaknesses. Where would we be now if we keep benching Ronaldo because he ran into blind alleys or wasteful with his finishing/end game? It's easier to make a talented footballer work hard than to make a hard working player talented.

Sums it up perfectly.

 

[11101]

@ti vu Have we descended to the Scousers level of the 'assist's assist'?

Martial' game is not perfect, he needs to be more proactive in working the space, adds more variety to his finishing and be more economical with the ball, but the fact remains that he's clearly more productive and more talented than his counterparts for the same position and should be allowed the game time to iron out his weaknesses. Where would we be now if we keep benching Ronaldo because he ran into blind alleys or wasteful with his finishing/end game? It's easier to make a talented footballer work hard than to make a hard working player talented.

@ti vu has a point though. Martial's game is currently entirely centred around what he can do when he has the ball. He needs to learn the value of making runs when he wont get the ball, and to position himself to create space for others. Only the coaches know if he is picking this stuff up in training.

If Ronaldo was still running down blind alleys 10 years on he wouldn't be half the player he is now. He learned and Martial must too.