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2017-18 Performances

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6.1 Season Average Rating
Appearances
45
Goals
11
Assists
11
Yellow cards
1
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BluesJr said:
Even more tedious is the people who argue Rashford is more talented.
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Both sides have become tedious. There is no new ground to cover, and so we keep repeating the already-discussed-till-death stylised premeditated points about each of them. Whereas the reality is both of them are dynamically developing players and so even performances 6 months before may not be appropriate benchmark.

Looking at them without any bias, I see both of them seemed have improved a lot over the same time last season (Rashford more in technical sense, Martial seems much more mentally focused). So I am only hoping to enjoy their development and not worry about who is better than whom.
 
Z_Wolf said:
Rashford has demonstrated a wider range of finishing. He's scored goals from different positions (angles), headers, free kicks etc. Most if not all of Martial goals are the same, he cuts inside to his right and curls them with the side of his right foot.
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People really do have a short term memory. Rashford a better header of the ball than Martial? Hah! I think the only header he scored was on his PL debut vs Arsenal. He hardly ever wins the ball aerially even though he is around 2 inches taller than Tony. Though Martial is no Lukaku, he is surely much better in terms of winning headers than Rashford and scored a peach of a headed goal vs. CSKA. Angles? I remember a Martial's goal(don't remember oppo. Though) where the ball had almost crossed the line behind. Not too terrible, I think. Buddy, just go through Martial's goals in his first season before making such senseless comments.

For a guy taking so many FKs and corners, he has scored only one though. People are just looking for excuses to trash Martial. Don't get wrong, Rashford is a terrific talent, but Martial is and has always been a level above in almost everything.
 
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Z_Wolf said:
I don't know why some people think he's a CF tbh. His greatest strength is his dribbling and ability to run at defenders which is better utilized from the wings. His poor movement and hold up play also make him less suited to play CF. I think people complaining about Martial not playing down the middle are making excuses for him tbh. He's mostly played LW even at Monaco.
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If he his greatest strength is to dribble and run at defenders - play him as a support striker instead.

You say that these abilities make him a good winger but what else can he do? Can he cross? Nah - he can barely hug the touch line. His short passing, dribbling directly at the defenders and beating his first man is some of his strongest abilities and can easily bring the best out of someone like lukaku and vise versa.

Look at the goal he scored; an accurate finish from a central position by taking the ball across the central defenders; this was something I consistently saw at CF in his first season & why everyone loved him at the time. Ever since his move to LW he has become readible by me on TV never mind the defenders.

As stupid as this sounds; there was a reason he was nicknamed as anptgrr version of henry & henry could play at LW but boy would he be repetitive and readible compared to how he played centrally.
 
The fact that there is a discussion comparing and likening Martial and Rashford talent shows how bizarre people can get.

Look Rashford is a good talent, has abundance of pace and shown quite the steady improvement which is a great positive to take but Martial is just clearly a different level talent wise to Rashford. I mean how has this even turned into a back and forth debate when the obvious superior talent shouldn't even be put into question.

You mean to tell me it's not THAT obvious Martial is clearly the far more talented player of the 2 to some?

The recent benching by Mou has clearly misguided some it seems. Reminder even Lingard had/has been preferred over Martial by Mourinho, let's also argue about his comparable talent to Martial.
 
Santoryo said:
The fact that there is a discussion comparing and likening Martial and Rashford talent shows how bizarre people can get.

Look Rashford is a good talent, has abundance of pace and shown quite the steady improvement which is a great positive to take but Martial is just clearly a different level talent wise to Rashford. I mean how has this even turned into a back and forth debate when the obvious superior talent shouldn't even be put into question.

You mean to tell me it's not THAT obvious Martial is clearly the far more talented player of the 2 to some?

The recent benching by Mou has clearly misguided some it seems. Reminder even Lingard had/has been preferred over Martial by Mourinho, let's also argue about his comparable talent to Martial.
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What are you basing that on? Rashford is the better talent in my eyes.

Martial has good close control but that's about it. Rashford beats him in everything else.
 
Martial is obviously the more talented player.

At least one good thing about the Martial vs Rashford nonsense, is that they're both ours.
 
Jaybomb said:
What are you basing that on? Rashford is the better talent in my eyes.

Martial has good close control but that's about it. Rashford beats him in everything else.
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I have observed you don't like Martial.
He is the better finisher, dribbler and passer, is obvious to see. Rashford has the better shot and set piece ability and that's about it.
Mourinho's preference does not change it. You are just been biased.
 
Martial vs Rashford is so tiresome, two great players with immense potential. It is impossible to tell which of them will turn out the better player, there are so many factors involved. Just be happy we have them both, and there are plenty of reasons to start one of them ahead of the other. Just chill, things will work out perfectly fine.
 
Let's just stick to debating who deserve more playing time, or who is on form and such. Subjects about their potential and talent level shouldn't be up for debate, they're sounding stupid given how obvious who is clearly the better talent.

Heck discussion about who'll turn out better would make much more sense given one can't definetely tell with absolute certainty how they'll each turn up. But who's the bigger talent? Completely baffled by seeing a discussion over this.
 
Z_Wolf said:
I don't know why some people think he's a CF tbh. His greatest strength is his dribbling and ability to run at defenders which is better utilized from the wings. His poor movement and hold up play also make him less suited to play CF. I think people complaining about Martial not playing down the middle are making excuses for him tbh. He's mostly played LW even at Monaco.
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Nah. The best CF of all time for me, Ronaldo, was a beast at dribbling and running at defenders. In my opinion....

Desirable winger attributes: Speed, dribbling, crossing, passing, high work rate
Desirable forward attributes: Speed, dribbling, finishing, strength, movement

Even if his movement is not the best, Martial ticks way more boxes as a forward than as a winger. He is fast, strong, a dribbler and calm in front of goal. But his crossing, passing and work-rate are nothing to write home about.

He might be better suited as a left forward than a straight out CF, but he's still a forward. Not a winger.
 
E-mal said:
I have observed you don't like Martial.
He is the better finisher, dribbler and passer, is obvious to see. Rashford has the better shot and set piece ability and that's about it.
Mourinho's preference does not change it. You are just been biased.
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Why would I be biased? I want all our players to do well but Rashford has been clearly more impressive of the two. He's scored in bigger games aswell.

As for being a better finisher... what's that based on? Both of them have their moments where they miss clear cut chances. Martial takes too long to shoot sometimes and is often blocked.

Better passer? Look at Rashford's assist to Lukaku's first goal. You make it sound like Marcus can't create or something.

If I had to sell one, I wouldn't even have to think twice. It would be Martial.
 
By the way when people talk about Martial's passing as a flaw, is it in the sense he doesn't have a Pogba like range of passing or are we just talking about typical forward players passing.

Because if it's the latter, Martial passing seems fine to me. Sure we get sloppy balls like every other players from time to time but his passing is pretty solid to me. In fact he's shown a bit of variation in his passing with his dinking of the ball from time(I remember he almost set up a ridiculous assist to Lingard in a City game at OT) and I've seen him pull it off many times too.

Personally I think Martial can play well as a Striker, SS and winger. He's pretty good in all of them. He had dribbling abilities, ball skills, control, pace and finishing to play in all those position just fine which he's already done so.

I also agree that just because Martial excel at dribbling his ideal position shouldn't be as a winger. Like already mentioned there's been strikers before with insane dribbling abilities with the most famous the one and only Phenomenon.

If Martial could work on his movement and be willing to go through even those wasted runs(sometimes good runs opening up oneself to a good position doesn't always result in a team mate feeding you the ball) then that'd be a big plus and improvement on his part.

Martial has the deadliness but lack the movement to get himself in those sort of areas to finish.

On the other hand Rashford uses his pace and willingness to be on the move constantly to find himself in those dangerous and goalscoring positions. Despite him not being as lethal he gets more opportunities and I could see why he's favored as a striker over Martial and I would favor him too.

I'd gamble on Rashford to keep getting himself in goalscoring opportunities despite not always being the most clinical. It's important to have those chances first.
 
We have two great talents, enjoy watching them. It doesn't have to always end in comparison.

They both combined really well under Van Gaal, shame Jose rarely played them together.
 
MadMike said:
Nah. The best CF of all time for me, Ronaldo, was a beast at dribbling and running at defenders. In my opinion....

Desirable winger attributes: Speed, dribbling, crossing, passing, high work rate
Desirable forward attributes: Speed, dribbling, finishing, strength, movement

Even if his movement is not the best, Martial ticks way more boxes as a forward than as a winger. He is fast, strong, a dribbler and calm in front of goal. But his crossing, passing and work-rate are nothing to write home about.

He might be better suited as a left forward than a straight out CF, but he's still a forward. Not a winger.
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There are way more boxes a player has to tick in order to be trusted to play CF by Mourinho. Like: hold up play, aerial prowess, work-rate, intelligence etc..


Martial imo doesn't tick any of those boxes.


Also, It's not like Martial has never been given a run of games at CF to show himself. Van Gaal has played him there for 10 games or so and he'd proven to be less effective down the middle.
 
Z_Wolf said:
There are way more boxes a player has to tick in order to be trusted to play CF by Mourinho. Like: hold up play, aerial prowess, work-rate, intelligence etc..
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There's many types of forwards. You're describing a target man. Neymar has neither aerial prowess nor hold up play but he is one of the best forwards of his generation.

And again, you can be a wide/inside forward but still a forward and not a winger. A winger is someone who usually plays down the touchline with good delivery and link up play, like Giggs, Beckham, Kanchelskis, Sharpe etc.

Martial might be better coming off the left side of the attack but he's still forward, both in style of play and skillset. Not a winger.
 
MadMike said:
There's many types of forwards. You're describing a target man. Neymar has neither aerial prowess nor hold up play but he is one of the best forwards of his generation.

And again, you can be a wide/inside forward but still a forward and not a winger. A winger is someone who usually plays down the touchline with good delivery and link up play, like Giggs, Beckham, Kanchelskis, Sharpe etc.

Martial might be better coming off the left side of the attack but he's still forward, both in style of play and skillset. Not a winger.
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We agree then? I was arguing Martial is better suited to a wider role rather than playing center forward.
 
Dante said:
Yeah, probably. I don't have the stats to hang but, pleasde, convince me otehwise.
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Just watch them. Rashford is actually quite poor in front of goal, that's his only weakness really. Martial is far more clinical.
 
Hate this debate, I do think very highly of Martial and I really think his ceiling was higher than Rashford's. Now, the thing with Rashford is that he learns. People seem to equate that to "hard work" but it's more an ability to understand what didn't go well and improve. Young players who are confident on the ball tend to stick to it and not pass when it matters. In the first goal against West Ham, Rashford makes the penetration, but he knows that he should pass at some point and he does. I fear that Martial still has a reflex to think too much or try by himself.

But he's insanely talented and will get his chances. People don't have to think Rashford is "lucky" because he's less talented, the kid is also clearly talented. My dream is to see a flowing team with Martial, Rashford and Lukaku altogether. And they just go and bang goals, with the support of Mkhitaryan/Mata/Pogba/Herrera/Peirera.
 
Z_Wolf said:
We agree then? I was arguing Martial is better suited to a wider role rather than playing center forward.
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Sorta. The reason why I get so militant about Martial not being a winger is because Mourinho plays him more like a winger than a wide forward and it kinda does my head in. Mourinho expects his wide forwards track all the way to the edge of the box and provide width and so on. He doesn't afford them the same freedom wide forwards are afforded at other clubs.

For example if you looked at Real or Barca last season (teams that play with wide forwards), you didn't see Neymar or Ronaldo dropping back and chasing right backs. You don't see them hugging the line and giving width because their LBs won't cross the halfway line. You just see them being direct, taking players on and getting in the box to grab goals like forwards.

I'm not saying that Martial is a Neymar or Ronaldo. But at 19yo under LVG he was granted that freedom and he scored 18 goals and 11 assists from that wide forward position. He carried our attack. Saddled with the responsibilities of a winger under Mourinho he has struggled. And yeah, the player is to blame too. I don't absolve him from blame. But I also see how he is used differently than before. Or at least he was last season, we'll see about this one.
 
Needs to start. I'd love to see him tear Swansea a new one tomorrow and kick on from that.
 
LennonNL said:
Needs to start. I'd love to see him tear Swansea a new one tomorrow and kick on from that.
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Personally I'd rather see him start at Old Trafford against Leicester. I'd go 4-3-3 against Swansea with Rashford and Mkhi wide.
 
MadMike said:
Personally I'd rather see him start at Old Trafford against Leicester. I'd go 4-3-3 against Swansea with Rashford and Mkhi wide.
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I'd be alright with that, I just want to see him get some starts under his belt as soon as possible. He's clearly one of our most talented players. Perhaps an impact sub appearance vs Swansea and a well earnt start vs Leicester?
 
LennonNL said:
I'd be alright with that, I just want to see him get some starts under his belt as soon as possible. He's clearly one of our most talented players. Perhaps an impact sub appearance vs Swansea and a well earnt start vs Leicester?
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So long as Lingard doesn't start ahead of him, I'm easy. Rashford has very high work rate so if it was me I'd give him plenty of starts in away games where you don't know how the game will go. In home games where you expect to dominate possession, I'd give more starts to Martial and even play him up top when Lukaku could use a rest. There's plenty of games for both to play, even without considering injuries. We could well have a 60 game season.
 
MadMike said:
Personally I'd rather see him start at Old Trafford against Leicester. I'd go 4-3-3 against Swansea with Rashford and Mkhi wide.
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I'd be expecting 433 also. I've already popped a trio of Matic, Herrera and Pogba in the centre - with a front 3 of Martial, Lukaku and Mkhitaryan. I just reckon, as impressive as Rashford was, his cameo has earned him a start tomorrow.
 
el3mel said:


Encouraging words from Jose about Martial.
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“I have faith in him,” Mourinho said of Martial. “Probably, the player I was looking at [in the transfer market] was not a pure winger, because I have pure wingers. The player I was looking for would allow me to play three at the back and do the wing-backs. As a pure attacking player, Martial is a good player.

“He is one of the players who will have a better season than last season. I look at my players and I am sure some will be better than they were last season, and Anthony is one of those, for sure.”



Good stuff.
It seems Jose sees him as a winger so he should get plenty of game time this season.

It seems we were after Perisic to play LWB due to better workrate, but it's encouraging to read that Jose rates Martial as a pure attacker. Hopefully he gives him a free role to focus on attacking.
 
Never understood the notion that Mourinho doesn't rate him.
Mourinho isn't blind.
 
Come on, Marty!

Why can't people be happy we have two great talents at Utd in Rashford & Martial?
 
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