I agree. It may not sound logical but I refuse to believe that even LVG was that stupid to rely on Rooney completely unless his hand was forced somehow. Got to be the contract given to Rooney.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 11
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
I agree. It may not sound logical but I refuse to believe that even LVG was that stupid to rely on Rooney completely unless his hand was forced somehow. Got to be the contract given to Rooney.
I think all the Thierry Henry talk has confused how we think about him a bit. Looking back more carefully, he's not all that much like Henry, who was very direct, who used his pace aggressively, who was best running in behind, particularly in that channel between FB and CB. That's more Rashford than Martial.
If Martial asked who he should be looking to emulate, I'd say Ribery. Fast, but not lightning, and not really equipped to burn people off with pace. His dribbling is more about his incredibly tight close control, especially when running, and fast reactions allowing him to improvise his way through a bank of defenders. He's more of a winger who scores goals than a striker who can come from wide positions (like Henry, or indeed Rashford), because his strength is in the dribbling, in getting the ball into the dangerous positions, rather than letting others put him there using pace and movement off the ball. Does most of his hard work on the ball, and not that much off it (runs, finding space etc).
If Martial asked who he should be looking to emulate, I'd say Ribery. Fast, but not lightning, and not really equipped to burn people off with pace. His dribbling is more about his incredibly tight close control, especially when running, and fast reactions allowing him to improvise his way through a bank of defenders. He's more of a winger who scores goals than a striker who can come from wide positions (like Henry, or indeed Rashford), because his strength is in the dribbling, in getting the ball into the dangerous positions, rather than letting others put him there using pace and movement off the ball. Does most of his hard work on the ball, and not that much off it (runs, finding space etc).
Martial also scored 17 goals in his first season at United, which also happened to be his first season in England. Mkhitaryan was the BuLi player of the year, who was responsible for the Europa league win. Give them time, they are mercurial talents. And they bith
On Point
Even if he's like Ribery rather than Henry that'll do me just fine. Big fan of Ribery in his prime.
That assist for the goal was like that run he did for his debut goal vs the Scouse.
That makes sense actually. I think he also is better when he's looking to provide assists and not just putting the blinkers on when he gets within sight of goal.
I am not a fanboy of Martial, I'm just defending a talented player who is harshly and wrongly treated by Mourinho and his fan club group on here but at the same time they are hyping and over rating Rashford to the level he doesn't belong. The problem is people are blindly following Mourinho now, for many he can't be wrong despite the fact his past tells us different story; people have completely rewrite history about Martial just to prove Jose is right; some are even blaming Woodward, the man who transform out club into financial monster and who bought Falcao, Di Maria, Pogba, Zlatan, Schneiderlin, Bastian, Mkitharyan, Martial,..., just because Jose moaned to the press; and we mock Liverpool fans for worshipping their manager, I think we're not different from rawk in that aspect.
I think he praised and backed Rashford because he's a local boy and an academy product, nothing to do with talent as Rashford was frustrating most of the time last season; the man gave Lingard a new contract at 100M/w ffs. Mourinho want to prove something, I'm pretty sure after the debacle he caused at Chelsea, he wouldn't want to be the man who benched the shiny new toy who freshly came from the academy; I think he just played politic there. The reality is that he now bought another striker to play at Rashford's position, which shows how much he does rate him; I'd not be surprised to see Rashford spending most of his time at the bench and being loaned next summer.You give Martial credit for leading us to an FA cup and a Europa League spot, but don't give Rashford any credit for winning the Europa League and getting us into the Champions League? Using that logic, the Europa League is also Martial's level as that's essentially where he led us to, when the team was built around him. Baffling logic. Stats are such a pointless concept, Rashford is 19 years old and was obviously struggling at the start of the season, he didn't come alive until the later stages of the sesaon. Also using his goals over the course of the season is questionable. Ibrahimovic was our main striker and played nearly every game up until his injury which was towards the end of the season, Rashford was playing as a wide forward just as Martial was, so your excuse for Martial playing out wide is moot.
Statistics mean feck all considering Rashford was competing with Martial for the same position (he wasn't playing as a striker), he's 19 and was obviously struggling in the early stages of the season and was learning a completely new position. The teams they played against, the performance of their team mates etc. are all factors that need to be considered when evaluating players purely on statistics, it's not as black and white as you claim it is. With your obsession with statistics, you'd probably argue Hazard had an average season too.
Mourinho doesn't trust Rashford? You're having a laugh mate, he's had nothing but praise for Rashford and it's obvious why he was preferred over Martial last season and until something changes, will continue to do so.
Martial might be a tiny bit more talented, fair enough, but I would not be surprised at all if by the end of their careers Rashford has had a better career. He's got a far better mentality and whether you want to believe it or not, is superior to Martial in more than a few aspects of the beautiful game. There's more to players than their ability on the ball. With your constant praise for dribbling, you would have defended Ben Arfa to the death had he ever been a United player.
Rashford average? Christ
By the way, you are making too many excuses for Rashford, the reality is that he isn't that good and I'm seeing him, in the future, playing for the like of Southampton or Westham. Great players don't need excuses, they show their talent on the pitch and shut down people like us who doubt them.
Fixed that for you.
Hehehe, you seem frustrated. Rashford or Mourinho fanboy?
I think for Mou a lot of things are about attitude. If he has a great talent on hand who only shows half the commitment of a lesser talented player then the lesser talented player will be preferred. Time and time again Mou has criticized some of our most talented players commitment and work ethic last year. He is probably doing this tough love routine to get more out of his most talented players and those who fold under the pressure and can't cut it aren't made for his teams anyways so he doesn't see a loss in treating players his way. So in essence I think he totally realizes that Martial is probably the most talented of our young attackers but he questions his attitude and commitment to being as good as he could be and I think in the long run this can only be something that benefits the players and our team.
Just someone who thinks anyone using the term fanboy in a discussion is too shit to take seriously.
You're daft as a brush.
And this type of management is the reason why we finished 6th last season. Building a team of hardworkers and average players will lead us to nowhere and we'll continue to struggle. It worked at Chelsea for 1 season because he had 2 keys (Hazard and Costa) players who carried the team and won the league for him but got bored with that management and booted him out; the same happened at Madrid; I fear the same will happen again here.
Anyway, how is buying Lukaku (Zlatan's direct replacement) any kind of indictment on Rashford (a teenager whose consistency no top level manager, such as Jose, will bank on despite it being remarkable for his age).
Once again you're contradicting yourself. You say last season he didn't want to bench Rashford, then claim it'll be different this season because he brought in a striker. He brought a striker in last season too and Rashford still got plenty of game time. What's the difference now? Rashford will still play as a wide forward as he did for the majority of last season, or in a two striker system like he employed him against Chelsea. He absolutely trusts Rashford more than he does Martial, it's why Rashford was preferred up top when Ibra was injured, it's why Rashford was opted for in the game against Chelsea etc.
Also you say great players don't need excuses, they just perform, which is quite interesting as all you've done is make excuses for Martial's form, what a turn of events that is.
You're going to be very disappointed if you think Jose doesn't rate Rashford, he loves the kid.
I don't see why people have to put down one of our players to show appreciation to another. Rashford and Martial are great talents with differing attributes. I expect both of them to get a lot of game time this season.
Thank you.
Because he brought Zlatan (a short term solution) to help the team and Rashford transition into a ready made striker, but after 1 season he seems to have abandon that idea and went for a young and ready made striker Lukaku for an astronomical fee who, in my view, will be the club main striker for the next 5 years; I don't see Rashford getting game time as I don't he'll be used as a winger again this coming season, he was atrocious there last season. I think Rashford will get the Rooney's treatment.
Anyway, how is buying Lukaku (Zlatan's direct replacement) any kind of indictment on Rashford (a teenager whose consistency no top level manager, such as Jose, will bank on despite it being remarkable for his age).
Let wait and see. I bet Rashford will be either a bench warmer or sold at a midtable club.
@LoveFootball sounds like the guys on United facebook feed, or youtube comments section
We really are the richest club in the world!
First of all, what happened at Chelsea has no relevance to this scenario. Secondly, he did bench Rashford for the first period of the season. It was Rashford who won his way into the starting XI, partly because he was working hard, but he was also helped by the fact that Mkhi and Martial were severely under-performing.
What shows that Mourinho DOES rate him, is that we didn't go in for a Chicharito or striker of similar vein. Rashford is 19, let that sink in a second. It's far too much pressure to put on a 19 year old when we're expecting to fire on all fronts this season. Not to mention he's not at the required level currently. Lukaku is better at the moment, and a more reliable source of goals so it makes perfect sense to buy him. But he wants Rashford as the second option so clearly Jose has a lot of faith in Rashford because Lukaku will not score all the goals by himself and if, god forbid he gets injured suddenly the responsibility is on Rashford. Luckily for us, every time that's happened so far he's stepped up to the plate.
Would be nice to see Mourinho give him some public praise after that amazing piece of skill.
Pity he isn't English. If it were Rooney, it would be the first question the press posed to Jose.
Pity he isn't English. If it were Rooney, it would be the first question the press posed to Jose.
He sort of did and does from time to time.
He did
They would ask Mourinho questions about a player from another club creating an assist?
Aren't you a clever one.
That's good to hear, I went through this thread looking for a tweet, clip or comment and saw none.
Am I wrong ?
I think it's time to rename this thread as rashford fan boys v. Martial fanboys.
You bet, now that's a strong word buddy.
Not even really, just one fool who thinks Martial is the best player at the club.
I think Martial has a higher ceiling than Rashford (not by much, hes just more naturally talented) but up until now, Rashfords desire and work ethic has been far superior, although recently Mourinho has come our and said that Martials work in training has improved, if he can keep it going, we're going to have two fantastic players on our hands.
Which is an accurate representation. Martial is a little more talented but people claiming that the difference is so big that they're not even comparable are having a laugh imo.
"Obviously we want more consistency in his talent. I think today was positive for him, that is why I left him for 90 minutes on the pitch. He was enjoying it, he was trying new things, and it is important in these friendly matches to try new things, which he did. That is important for his confidence. Young players still need time to learn and time to improve. It is also his personality. I can say that he is training better than before, he is working harder than before, his ambition is to try to bring his talent in a consistent way."
Great to read that stuff. Confidence seems such a key factor with Martial. For all his flaws, Van Gaal really believed in him, and I don't get the impression he has the same ease with Mourinho. The fear of being dropped for any average showing is likely to weigh heavy. Of course, you should never be fully comfortable in your place, but the security in knowing your manager has trust in you must be helpful for a young player.
Would love for him to become a star here. We need him to become just that.
I dont really think LvG did anything more than Jose is doing.
I think we should take into consideration that his personal life was really affected and then the club changing his jersey no when he had just started some commercial deals with no 9 had an effect too. His last season was a combination of many factors.
End of last season and summer, Jose seems to have given him the confidence that the spot is his if he can work hard and be consistently good. If he is really the real deal, he should be able to have a far better season than the last one.
Unfortunately for him, Utd can't wait too long given the competition levels nowadays. I have hopes for him though.
That's fair.
With regards to your last sentence, I think the curiosity is with the double standards in terms of others being afforded opportunities without delivering. Martial seemed to hav a much shorter string than some.
Well, to be fair, his position has competition. Add to it that one of the competitors is an academy product whom we all want to see successful.
Well the latter isn't really the manager's concern. You could also argue that one (Martial) cost a massive outlay and we more urgently require a return on that.
Also, in my thinking, games invested in Martial have a far greater potential yield than games invested in Lingard. Lingard was basically a first choice player last year. He still had a low output, and obviously doesn't have the same quality as Martial anyway. I'd argue that it is in our better interests to have Martial at his best as opposed to Lingard.
Then, Martial's precious performances should also be taken into consideration. He has already performed at a brilliant level, consistently, for United. That ends the debate as to whether Martial can actually perform for us. We've seen him do it. I think it is one of the most important responsibilities of the coaching staff to get Martial playing well, as the team desperately needs a 15+ goal wide player. So far, he's the only one who has shown he can do that. Having him at his best will raise the team massively. If not sell him and get someone who you hope can deliver what he was supposed to, instead of just playing players we know are incapable of it.
Did he play and how did he perform?
I love him but sometimes, he makes me so angry.
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