Nothing new. He's lively when he has the ball, but his lack of mobility without the ball is so frustrating.
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Does he not know about off the ball movement? You know the kind of things that Rashford and Jesse do?
So much hyper analysis, it's getting annoying now, he's the only one that has to do everything perfectly, every time, gosh. It's almost like an agenda now. I think we should just sell him so that some of you can have your peace and enjoy consistent world class talent like Lingard.
No agenda here. He's very good as long as he has the ball but at the same time his off ball movement is non existent and it's clear to anyone. When he doesn't have the ball he doesn't move or make himself for a pass hence he can go absent in big portions of the game.
This is a constant problem in the way he plays and he needs to develop it if he's aiming to become world class.
I get your point, but I can look at every one of our players, even Pogba and De Gea who are world class and tell you something they don't do very well, but you don't see people consistently posting such after every game including 20 minutes cameo. Trust me, people are genuinely fixated on Martial, it's a bit pathetic now. Every move, pass, movement, body language, everything is hyper analyzed. It's like we have accepted that other players have faults, but we can't accept it with Martial.
Sounds a bit like people having a go at Rooney for the last few seasons to me....
Fair point but as you know, people have high hope for him so I think it's a more of "tough love" than an agenda.
Fair point but as you know, people have high hope for him so I think it's a more of "tough love" than an agenda.
I don't think it's an agenda, not sure what it is, just find it odd.
Something like that.
I agree. He only wants to play with the ball at his feet and he'll do a bit defensively to avoid criticism. There were counter attacks that came to nothing yesterday but he didn't even try to get in a position where he could offer anything.
His aspirations to effect the game need to improve sharpish.
Big fan off his but his off the ball movement and his lack of maturity in reading the game is worrying. I know he is just 21 but when you compare him with rashford, his reading of the game looks childish. He has to learn to take the game by the scruff.
However, one thing I will defend him for his our players seems to have very less connection with him. Like there was one instance at the 92nd minute where he was free and was ahead of Barca's fullback but fellaini instead of passing the ball to him which was a simple pass chose to pass it backwards. I have seen on many occasions where his teammates don't see him. Jose has to address that.
However, one thing I will defend him for his our players seems to have very less connection with him. Like there was one instance at the 92nd minute where he was free and was ahead of Barca's fullback but fellaini instead of passing the ball to him which was a simple pass chose to pass it backwards. I have seen on many occasions where his teammates don't see him. Jose has to address that.
The day Mourinho opened his mouth and decided to publicly criticize him is the day doom spelled on the lad on these boards. Same with Shaw. People on these boards love eating whatever a manager throws out there, so much that they'd be willing to rewrite history and forget sublime talent which gave them joy just a little over a season ago.
This forum has become all about seeing players running, working hard(while doing very little with the ball) rather than seeing genuine talent with actual footballing skills, abilities. Mourinho has spoken and the mass ate whatever came out of his mouth.
Martial has clearly become a scapegoat(which is a shame) and at this point i agree with a poster above that he should maybe get sold and give piece of mind to some in here. Being rated less than the likes of Lingard, Rashford is just telling quite honestly. Disregarding solid talent for "hardwork, runs a lot etc" is frankly appalling.
And it seems more that he doesn't matter what he does people will always find something to point negatively to and Mourinho will always prefer his hardworkers over him(Lingard, Rashford).
Kid deserves better. I hope something works out for him, be it Mourinho finally getting some sense, or him finding a way out.
This forum has become all about seeing players running, working hard(while doing very little with the ball) rather than seeing genuine talent with actual footballing skills, abilities. Mourinho has spoken and the mass ate whatever came out of his mouth.
Martial has clearly become a scapegoat(which is a shame) and at this point i agree with a poster above that he should maybe get sold and give piece of mind to some in here. Being rated less than the likes of Lingard, Rashford is just telling quite honestly. Disregarding solid talent for "hardwork, runs a lot etc" is frankly appalling.
And it seems more that he doesn't matter what he does people will always find something to point negatively to and Mourinho will always prefer his hardworkers over him(Lingard, Rashford).
Kid deserves better. I hope something works out for him, be it Mourinho finally getting some sense, or him finding a way out.
Did well last night when he came on. Looked lively, running off the ball and in behind the full back, always in position defensively. He also continued to try things and created a good opening at the death for Rashford when he blazed his shot over the bar.
I'm feeling a bit more confident about his future under Mourinho after this pre season. He's found a way to make sure Martial is defensively sound but also in those high positions to receive the ball in attack. I think Mourinho will like what he's seen, particularly over the last two games (he enjoyed his performance against Madrid, though i thought it was his least impressive on tour apart from the assist).
I'm feeling a bit more confident about his future under Mourinho after this pre season. He's found a way to make sure Martial is defensively sound but also in those high positions to receive the ball in attack. I think Mourinho will like what he's seen, particularly over the last two games (he enjoyed his performance against Madrid, though i thought it was his least impressive on tour apart from the assist).
Good observation agree with almost everything you have mentioned in the post though slight disagreement about Mourinho always preferring Lingard and Rashford over him , not much doubt they would start the season over him but if they don't produce like last season I can't see Mourinho being indulgent and generous with their game time he would simply discard them because If we don't make top 4 this time he is simply out no Europa league to bail him out this time.
Ps I don't see us making top 4 if Rashford and Lingard are regulars this season in the league.
He has flaws but a brilliant player with the highest ceiling out of all of our young players.
Even Ronaldo and Rooney had flaws at 21.
Martial will get better.
Even Ronaldo and Rooney had flaws at 21.
Martial will get better.
Well Lingard started 6 or 8 consecutive games on the back of bad performances. Rashford was atrocious for 3/4 of last season until he got some form. He got trusted to play on despite not performing well until the tail's end of last season. While Martial sometimes got benched on the back of brilliant performances(Boro) and benched for many games after putting in average performances.
Different treatments.
Needs to work on off the ball movement more but I thought he did well too. Shame he didn't get a shot on target but like Rashford he was looking at attacking the fullbacks. Would like to see the three (Martial, Lukaku, Rashford) start a game together but don't think it'll happen.
This is why I sadly think it won't work out for him at united, unless of course he goes on a ridiculous scoring run. People are hyper analysing him and it's too much. People make excuses for lesser players but as you said, everything he does has to be perfect.
I remember the Fellaini moment - it was ridiculous the way he turned back and saw Martial's frustrations, especially since we needed to attack at that point no matter what. And it wasn't just Fellaini, there were 2 other moments, once with Darmian who had a wide open Martial out wide had he just played a first time ball and the other was Lukaku had received the ball at the top of the box with back to goal and even turned to where he could have played the ball out to Martial out wide who was open but, didn't for whatever reason.
I get people being critical of Martial's movement because I feel that way but, watching the way we played last night and the rest of the pre-season games, I think this has to be something that is absolutely part of the coaching / game plan. Martial's role is not unlike Valencia's, which is stand way out there and give an option - one that may get used a handful of times in a full game, less in a 20-30 min cameo. Reflecting upon the few times Martial has played upon the right, he drifts around as much as any of the others but, not when he is stationed on the left, so to me that has to be something that is coached.
I am optimistic for him for the upcoming season - he looks hungry and when he is on the ball, that excitement level, get me on the edge of my seat feeling is back. Bodes well for the team.
Good to hear.
I think people have to fundamentally change the way they think he should play.
Comparing his off the ball movement to Rashford is, imo unfair on Martial.
They're very different players.
Rashford is an out and out attacker. It's becoming clear, Martial isn't.
They way I see it, martial will develop into a kind of Frank Ribery player rather than a Thierry Henry.
When you look at it that way, the way people assess his game will change.
Looking at the games Mourinho has praised him, his off-the ball movement hasn't been that much different to the games he has been judged to have been poor.
The games he's been praised have come when he has been aggressive when he has the ball, rather than be passive I think Mourinho wants him to carry the ball with more purpose.
I saw on my timeline that he had a good cameo, that's why i bumped this thread to confirm if it was true.
Mourinho's recent comments gives the impression he has for from lost patience. I think that's all that matters.
I agree Mourinho mismanaged Martial last season but this season if we don't reinforce our attacking option and Mourinho rely on players like Lingard and Rashford as regular he would simply get sacked if we fail to achieve top 4 which is the most likely scenario with them as starters. So it's in Mourinho's and our best interest that he supports Martial and help him realise his huge potential because as I mentioned in my earlier post as well there is no Europa league to fall back upon this season.
The most micro-analysed player these boards have seen. He quite literally can't have a bad touch without attracting a barrage of criticism, existing simply to further pedal pre-conceived agendas.
He comes into a game against one of the best sides in club football and makes a positive difference, immediately becoming one of the most dangerous attackers on the field. He nearly scored within minutes when he had the audacity to hit the ball a few inches over the bar from thirty yards.
Honestly, it's daft, and I forward what @Santoryo says about Mourinho's criticism. From that day on Martial has been micro-analysed. Shaw, likewise. Literally every movement these lads make is going to be scrutinised and it isn't conducive to playing with any kind of confidence. Thankfully, Martial is having a good pre season.
He comes into a game against one of the best sides in club football and makes a positive difference, immediately becoming one of the most dangerous attackers on the field. He nearly scored within minutes when he had the audacity to hit the ball a few inches over the bar from thirty yards.
Honestly, it's daft, and I forward what @Santoryo says about Mourinho's criticism. From that day on Martial has been micro-analysed. Shaw, likewise. Literally every movement these lads make is going to be scrutinised and it isn't conducive to playing with any kind of confidence. Thankfully, Martial is having a good pre season.
Agree with regards to Martial. With Luke Shaw though I feel that everyone would welcome even a one-legged Shaw back if it means benching Blind. At least that's how I feel.
I see no reason why he shouldn't get criticism for his movement. I hope the coaches and players are making him aware of it, but I've seen zero evidence he's learned or even tried to add this to his game. I wonder if he is even aware of it. It's frustrating because we all know if he added it to his game he'd be so much better.
I couldn't agree more. It's ironic that his great first season with us didn't allow him more leeway compared to players who haven't contributed much and instead created expectations that are extreme relative to other players. Mourinho's treatment, of course, added to it.
Do you really think coaches at Utd can't see what an average caftard can?
Agreed. Thats why he's always on the bench.
Usual suspects will still say he's not doing anything wrong and Jose's a cnut.
Did well when he came on. Don't see how people cannot see this.
Offered more than lingard and mhki did imo.
We look more dangerous with him playing but we need a left back ffs sake as our left winger is left out to dry ecery game.
Offered more than lingard and mhki did imo.
We look more dangerous with him playing but we need a left back ffs sake as our left winger is left out to dry ecery game.
First thing I thought when I saw him was how similar he is to Luis Ronaldo while dribbling....then you see his workrate off the ball....and he's identical to the chubby post-injuries Ronaldo at Real circa 2005 too. Difference is, he hasn't got the excuse of 3 serious knee injuries or prior reputation to vindicate it.
Great talent but needs to change his mentality.
Great talent but needs to change his mentality.
His lack of off the ball work and positioning should be something easily enough identified and remedied by our coaching staff, if Martial isn't a bit thick he should be able to iron that part of his game out.
Of course he won't ever be a brilliant and natural mover like you see a young Mbappe being, but still he should be able to take a step up from where he is at now, which quite frankly is sub-par.
Of course he won't ever be a brilliant and natural mover like you see a young Mbappe being, but still he should be able to take a step up from where he is at now, which quite frankly is sub-par.
That's the part that is in doubt two years into his Man Utd career. This season will most likely answer that for us.
What I think is interesting about Martial is how he is such a polarizing figure on these boards. There are some who will trash him at every turn, and others who will claim he is potentially as good as Messi and should start every game. I actually joined this forum when Martial joined United because I was excited about his talent and when he scored against Liverpool I became a fan.
However, the off the field issues affected him, combined with past comments on his work ethic from his previous coaches, to the lack of clear progression (it's actually been a regression last season, nowhere more than in his confidence) is a concern. I've been excited about many talents like Martial that didn't pan out, and it's a complete possibility with him as well. He IS only 21, but he has been in United since 19 and those talents that do pan out, you see consistent progress year after year. Last year could have been a bump in the road which happens with young players, but this season is make or break in my eyes because there is so much at stake for him with the world cup coming up and if he isn't doing everything he can to get better, then he is a thick lad that probably will have a mediocre career filled with 'what ifs'.
This off the ball movement issue is being overstated and people are now just repeating it like parrots.
Yes he's not the best off the ball mover out there but the way people are over emphasising it is a bit ridiculous.
It now has become about finding something to criticise and this off the ball stuff is the go to thing people jump on given there isn't much to criticise about his footballing abilities and talent.
And like someone mentioned it, people have to start looking at what type of player he us before parroting the same off the ball issues they like bringing up. For some reason people want him to start running around everywhere like a Lingard or Rashford as if that's the standard he should aspire to.
Martial has his game and if his off the ball isn't something that stands out then he has a tone more going for him to easily overcompensate that issue which again has been overblown.
Like I said, the day Mourinho opened his mouth, that was it for the lad when it comes to your typical Caf posters fickle opinions and mind.
Yes he's not the best off the ball mover out there but the way people are over emphasising it is a bit ridiculous.
It now has become about finding something to criticise and this off the ball stuff is the go to thing people jump on given there isn't much to criticise about his footballing abilities and talent.
And like someone mentioned it, people have to start looking at what type of player he us before parroting the same off the ball issues they like bringing up. For some reason people want him to start running around everywhere like a Lingard or Rashford as if that's the standard he should aspire to.
Martial has his game and if his off the ball isn't something that stands out then he has a tone more going for him to easily overcompensate that issue which again has been overblown.
Like I said, the day Mourinho opened his mouth, that was it for the lad when it comes to your typical Caf posters fickle opinions and mind.
Transplant Cristiano Ronaldo's brain/mentality into his head and he'll become one of the best players in the world.
I say just give him some game time, support him and encourage him and he'll show once again why he's one of the biggest talent in Europe.
He did it in his first season with us just fine without any of these hypothetical x player brains or off the ball movement.
All the kid needs is to be trusted, given a fair crack and being treated fairly. It's as simple as that.
Basically being managed right.
He did it in his first season with us just fine without any of these hypothetical x player brains or off the ball movement.
All the kid needs is to be trusted, given a fair crack and being treated fairly. It's as simple as that.
Basically being managed right.
And you sound like Fellaini's barber. You have unlimited posts in the mains, use it efficiently and make useful comments.
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If he had the same workrate and dedication as Messi or Ronaldo, he'll become the best player in the world, reason why I really hope Mourinho does recognise his talent and persist with him.
This. Sometimes people forgot that he's still a kid and need some kind of specific management to help him develop further.
Dribbling is coming off.
Such an asset.
We need more players doing that. One is not enough.
Such an asset.
We need more players doing that. One is not enough.
I like him as part of a front two.
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