[Dobbs]

Exactly! Why the hell should we sacrifice the effectiveness of others for Martial? Because some of you like him so much?

Because as has already been explained it might be best for the team.

 

[arthurka]

He really stank today..

 

[kouroux]

True but maybe we have to look at why that's the reality.

It's easy, Mourinho doesn't fully trust him for whatever reason. He doesn't see him as an undisputable starter.

 

[haram]

Because as has already been explained it might be best for the team.

Based off what? He'll continue doing the same shit. We'll end up taking him off and moving Rashford back to the left mid game.

 

[ti vu]

I got what you are saying, I'm saying it's very defensive oriented with filling gaps and all that. In most games we will be on front foot, so we should be more worried about creating than stopping attacks.

The thing is even the fundamental of even attackI got team would need balanced base (full backs, better third midfielder/no10/SS, to be able to cover transit back to defensive phase. Whoever on the position in the wing need to carry out the duty of that position while the base remain the same. Right now the left back and third midfielder/ no 10/ SS ain't allow us to do this interchanging approach. There was a reason Messi wanted to be the false no 10, instead of being a wide player. It relieved some defensive work as he wouldn't find himself in wide area against players who would need to be kept in check as much. CBs the least to be tracked

 

[crossy1686]

He really stank today..

This is why I prefer Rashford as a starter. When Martial is bad, he's really fecking bad. There's no point in keeping him on past 20 minutes because you know he can't turn it around.

 

[kouroux]

The thing is even the fundamental of even attackI got team would need balanced base (full backs, better third midfielder/no10/SS, to be able to cover transit back to defensive phase. Whoever on the position in the wing need to carry out the duty of that position while the base remain the same. Right now the left back and third midfielder/ no 10/ SS ain't allow us to do this interchanging approach. There was a reason Messi wanted to be the false no 10, instead of being a wide player. It relieved some defensive work as he wouldn't find himself in wide area against players who would need to be kept in check as much. CBs the least to be tracked

I though that was because he mostly wanted to get closer to the goal and increase his ridiculous scoring stats even more.

 

[breakout67]

Based off what? He'll continue doing the same shit. We'll end up taking him off and moving Rashford back to the left mid game.

Its based off the Martial fan club rules; they think if we shoehorn him into the team he'll go on to win the Balondor. Don't dare say that Rashford might be a better striker than Martial, because then the whole delusion goes out of the window.

If we moved to a 352, the only way i see Martial getting into the team is at left wing-back (and that will not go down well here). I won't even entertain the idea of playing Martial as a lone striker over Lukaku because the difference between those two as a lone striker is massive.

 

[roonster09]

The thing is even the fundamental of even attackI got team would need balanced base (full backs, better third midfielder/no10/SS, to be able to cover transit back to defensive phase. Whoever on the position in the wing need to carry out the duty of that position while the base remain the same. Right now the left back and third midfielder/ no 10/ SS ain't allow us to do this interchanging approach. There was a reason Messi wanted to be the false no 10, instead of being a wide player. It relieved some defensive work as he wouldn't find himself in wide area against players who would need to be kept in check as much. CBs the least to be tracked

Martial whenever starts always plays as LW, so even if he moves to RW when swapping position, will he be anymore defensive liability as Mata? I don't think so. That's the reason why I can't agree with your point. We are playing defensively weakest player as RW all season.

Tbh without consistent swapping, Rashford playing as RW and drifting centrally wouldn't be bad idea at all, like how Mbappe plays for PSG or even Mata plays for us. Surely worth a go than non existent RW we have now.

Edit: Lets agree to disagree. Don't think we will be changing opinions, not saying this will work or turn us into some great team but I would rather watch than than Mata as RW and end up with no RW.

 

[ti vu]

I though that was because he mostly wanted to get closer to the goal and increase his ridiculous scoring stats even more.

That the point I am making. The coach and Messi himself would want to maximize his ability energy sticking him central and up front than him being wide and still need to track runner in the rare occasiontere was counter attacking against them.

In the scenario of our team, severely inferior possession team, with would be nightmare to transit back to defensive position this way: Martial on the left with Rashford on the right in attacking phase and Rashford to be on left with Martial moved to the right in defensive phase.

 

[Dobbs]

Based off what? He'll continue doing the same shit. We'll end up taking him off and moving Rashford back to the left mid game.

Why don't we give it a go at least rather than pretending we know in advance? Its not like we've much to lose by doing so.

Find it strange that you don't even want to consider Martial and Rashford on the pitch at the same time.

 

[Dobbs]

It's easy, Mourinho doesn't fully trust him for whatever reason. He doesn't see him as an undisputable starter.

It's not easy. There's no logical reason why a poor performance from Martial is treated differently to a poor performance from other players.

Again I'm not excusing a bad performance. He can doway better than he did today. Just pointing out you'll never get the best of players managing them like that.

 

[ti vu]

Martial whenever starts always plays as LW, so even if he moves to RW when swapping position, will he be anymore defensive liability as Mata? I don't think so. That's the reason why I can't agree with your point. We are playing defensively weakest player as RW all season.

Tbh without consistent swapping, Rashford playing as RW and drifting centrally wouldn't be bad idea at all, like how Mbappe plays for PSG or even Mata plays for us. Surely worth a go than non existent RW we have now.

Edit: Lets agree to disagree. Don't think we will be changing opinions, not saying this will work or turn us into some great team but I would rather watch than than Mata as RW and end up with no RW.

You're missing the point where I explained there are game Rashford is needed on the left especially in defensive phase to cover for our ineffective LB position.

I meant clearly it's better for Martial to be on our right flank with Valencia helping him out in defensive phase. The problem is transition as Martial is favored stay on our left left in attacking phase.

Sure we can agree to disagree.

 

[Lentwood]

This is why I have no sympathy for Martial. Fans whinge at Jose for not selecting certain players and when they do get picked they miss their opportunity. That's the worst I've ever seen Martial play and tbh I'm starting to wonder whether Jose won't just cut his losses in the summer and find a player who wants it more

 

[haram]

Why don't we give it a go at least rather than pretending we know in advance? Its not like we've much to lose by doing so.

Find it strange that you don't even want to consider Martial and Rashford on the pitch at the same time.

With Martial's obvious flaws people still want to push him into the team and move Rashford away from his effective position. That's what bugs me.

 

[crazylegz]

just so inconsistent

 

[Dobbs]

With Martial's obvious flaws people still want to push him into the team and move Rashford away from his effective position. That's what bugs me.

You seem more interested in the Martial vs Rashford thing than you do what's best for the team.

Which would explain why you don't want both of them on the pitch at the same time.

 

[haram]

You seem more interested in the Martial vs Rashford thing than you do what's best for the team.

Which would explain why you don't want both of them on the pitch at the same time.

Is Mourinho also not considering what is best for the team?

Ever considered that Rashford playing on the left is what is best for the team?

 

[kouroux]

It's not easy. There's no logical reason why a poor performance from Martial is treated differently to a poor performance from other players.

Again I'm not excusing a bad performance. He can doway better than he did today. Just pointing out you'll never get the best of players managing them like that.

Maybe there are other things involved, things we do not have access as fans (training sessions, interactions between Mar/Mou). I don't think he does it without a reason in his mind.

 

[Dobbs]

Is Mourinho also not considering what is best for the team?

Ever considered that Rashford playing on the left is what is best for the team?

We've seen Rashford on the left with others on the right. That might be the best way yeah. Given the attacking isn't great though why not try something different?

Easy question. If Martial on the left and Rashford on the right improved us as a team would you like to see it happen?

 

[kouroux]

That the point I am making. The coach and Messi himself would want to maximize his ability energy sticking him central and up front than him being wide and still need to track runner in the rare occasiontere was counter attacking against them.

In the scenario of our team, severely inferior possession team, with would be nightmare to transit back to defensive position this way: Martial on the left with Rashford on the right in attacking phase and Rashford to be on left with Martial moved to the right in defensive phase.

I would go with that too. We should aspire to make teams more concerned about us than the opposite. That is what most big teams do anyway. Besides in certain tough away games, those same players (Rashford and Martial) would also still be able to up their defensive workrate when needed. I hate this so-called bullshit pragmatism from Mourinho.

 

[haram]

Easy question. If Martial on the left and Rashford on the right improved us as a team would you like to see it happen?

Yes, without a doubt.

Our attack is suffering due to Pogba's absence. Well, the whole team is suffering.

 

[Dobbs]

Yes, without a doubt.

Our attack is suffering due to Pogba's absence. Well, the whole team is suffering.

Well then why the big reluctance to at least give it a go for a few games?

If it doesn't work revert back to the two of them duelling it out for the left. Nothing lost.

 

[haram]

Well then why the big reluctance to at least give it a go for a few games?

If it doesn't work revert back to the two of them duelling it out for the left. Nothing lost.

We probably will see it at one point. I just don't see it working. You're making Rashford less effective and playing Martial on the left who isn't as good against teams who sit back.

 

[sammsky1]

Stupidity and immaturity really cost him today. Totally played into the hands of Huddersfield play acting with his yellow card. That anger and emotion affected his concentration for the rest of the half, whereby he was one late tackle away from a red card and had to be replaced.

Needs to grow up.

 

[ti vu]

I would go with that too. We should aspire to make teams more concerned about us than the opposite. That is what most big teams do anyway. Besides in certain tough away games, those same players (Rashford and Martial) would also still be able to up their defensive workrate when needed. I hate this so-called bullshit pragmatism from Mourinho.

I am not against that idea, just saying it may need another major squad surgery to go for that approach. Beside the younger players in question, others with that approach (attacking exchanging and still need to remain discipline carrying out defensive game), Lukaku will need to improve big time and quickly or we will be benched soon enough. We're playing to supplying in our now approach, which as we see, we're not doing it well. We had different approach last season, with our wide attackers were supposed to run in behind while the no.9 fighting to occupy defenders in deeper positions. They just didn't score enough. So in a sense, we're looking to go in circle asking to go back to LVG's approach.

I am saying is at this stage, we should focus in one approach and stick to it, or we end up with endless rebuilding process.

 

[sammsky1]

I find that he's excellent as a sub, but doesn't have that same impact when he starts. I can't understand why.

Because as a sub, he plays against a right back who is knackered, having just chased Rashford around for past 70 mins.
Much like Solskjaer used to exploit tired defenders.

Thought it was quite obvious?

 

[snk123]

One bad game and the haters are out. haram has like 20 posts in this thread since the game.
You would wonder no one else in the team has had a bad game the past 3 months.

 

[arthurka]

This is why I prefer Rashford as a starter. When Martial is bad, he's really fecking bad. There's no point in keeping him on past 20 minutes because you know he can't turn it around.

Totally agree

 

[Dobbs]

We probably will see it at one point. I just don't see it working. You're making Rashford less effective and playing Martial on the left who isn't as good against teams who sit back.

Mourinho has put Rashford on the right even if its just for periods of a game.

Again though rather than wondering and guessing why don't we just give it a go? Its not like we'd be tampering with a fluid, perfectly functioning attacking unit.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Rashford had games like this (eg Everton), Mkhi has been woeful for weeks now but still get played all the same. But I'm guessing after Martial's showing today we wont be seeing him for a while.

 

[littleman]

Damn those Barcelona rumors must be heating up right now
Keeping posters restless and sleepless
Martial > Rashford 4eva


As always, Mourinho knows better than favoring one player over another. Keep them playing against each other and they will grow. Stupid pro-Martial posters and his PR team should just shut the hell up. He must and will prove himself, not slide into the team "just because". And screw the Barcelona rumors. A joke.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Lot of kneejerk in this thread.

As I pointed out earlier in this season, Martial and Rashford are very close to eachother in terms of level. Whilst the majority acted as if Martial is two levels higher and way more talented, now the roles have reversed and more people have been advocating Rashford.

In reality, Rashford can start next match and be horrendous whilst Martial shines when he comes on, or the following start.

We have two brilliant young talents who are inconsistent and have their flaws, it really isnt clear as day to judge who is the better or even if there is a permanent solution.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

He still feels like he is a "fifa loading screen" player. He wants to reset that one vs one in space on the left and running at the defenders every time and not want to play the rest of the game when he doesn't have the ball and the space. I am not sure what we do with him, Jose has a tough assignment on his hands here.

 

[Catt]

One bad game and the haters are out. haram has like 20 posts in this thread since the game.
You would wonder no one else in the team has had a bad game the past 3 months.

Go to their respective threads and see if they don't get any criticism.

 

[haram]

One bad game and the haters are out. haram has like 20 posts in this thread since the game.
You would wonder no one else in the team has had a bad game the past 3 months.

Please do quote what you have a problem with and we can discuss it.

 

[Home&Away]

Exactly! Why the hell should we sacrifice the effectiveness of others for Martial? Because some of you like him so much?

Who are we sacrificing the ability of by playing martial up front with Lukaku?

 

[Dobbs]

Damn those Barcelona rumors must be heating up right now
Keeping posters restless and sleepless
Martial > Rashford 4eva


As always, Mourinho knows better than favoring one player over another. Keep them playing against each other and they will grow. Stupid pro-Martial posters and his PR team should just shut the hell up. He must and will prove himself, not slide into the team "just because". And screw the Barcelona rumors. A joke.

Somebody doesn't understand how opinion forums work.

 

[haram]

Who are we sacrificing the ability of by playing martial up front with Lukaku?

I was referring to dropping Lukaku for Martial or pushing Rashford to the right just to get Martial in the team.

 

[Home&Away]

I was referring to dropping Lukaku for Martial or pushing Rashford to the right just to get Martial in the team.

No - I never said that, Lukaku should play with a partnership be that either martial or rashford in my opinion