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2017-18 Performances


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My biggest complaint about him is he always waits for the ball to come to his feet. His movement off the ball is just terrible. Makes him very one dimensional. He needs to work on his movement.

He is still deadly inside the box, so maybe try him as a partner with Lukaku in a 2 striker formation?
 
Contradict yourself. Then condescend and laugh at the other poster who points it out. Some man

Right from the first post I said he had minimal defensive responsibility ( which I said by saying he had 0 defensive responsibility) so not sure where you see contradiction. If anyone thinks Martial game was poor because of his defensive responsibility or he was worried about defensive role then they are just looking for excuses.
 
Has anyone posted a gif of the “tackle” that got him all riled up? They showed a replay on MOTD and it looked horrendous. Knee high and nowhere near the ball. If he’d made a meal of it yer man could have been sent off. In a way he ended up punished for not being a drama queen (and for Lee Mason being crap at his job).

Lee Mason was absolutely horrible he reacted to every protest from the home crowd, never seen anything like that. What a coward.
 
These are just excuses for his poor performance. If we are talking spot about Liverpool game then yes what you said would be correct.

It's not an excuse since it's happening since last year. He is stuggling to adapt and be effective in attack if he's played in a style different to his natural game and strengths. It's not the first and not the last time it will happen under mourinho s 4231.

It's much more than just a excuse for a single game.
 
My biggest complaint about him is he always waits for the ball to come to his feet. His movement off the ball is just terrible. Makes him very one dimensional. He needs to work on his movement.

He is still deadly inside the box, so maybe try him as a partner with Lukaku in a 2 striker formation?
Developing a better movement is possible to improve I'd think and something they would work on in training? He also needs to be smarter and use his head. Fell right into the trap on saturday.
 
Developing a better movement is possible to improve I'd think and something they would work on in training? He also needs to be smarter and use his head. Fell right into the trap on saturday.
Our attackers play as if they are playing with each other for the first time. There is no coordination between them. This is especially true with Martial.

His movement can be improved in training. There needs to be better gelling between our players, which is strange since it's almost November, and most of them have played with each other for a while now.
 
It's not an excuse since it's happening since last year. He is stuggling to adapt and be effective in attack if he's played in a style different to his natural game and strengths. It's not the first and not the last time it will happen under mourinho s 4231.

It's much more than just a excuse for a single game.

It's no kind of an excuse at all. He needs to adapt. He needs to improve. He needs to become competent at playing more than one tailor-made role. He needs to get in positions to get a pass, even if 9 out of 10 times the pass doesn't come. He needs to look at what's working in a match and adapt to it.

He's young, he's got plenty of time to improve. Meanwhile, United have to play two games a week, and get results.
 
My biggest complaint about him is he always waits for the ball to come to his feet. His movement off the ball is just terrible. Makes him very one dimensional. He needs to work on his movement.

He is still deadly inside the box, so maybe try him as a partner with Lukaku in a 2 striker formation?

Not a single one of our midfielders played well enough to get the ball to the attackers. Not one. Mkhitaryan has been fluffing easy through balls all season, Lingard is not up to #10 quality in a league dominated by the likes of Eriksen, DeBruyne, Silva and Coutinho, Mata shit the bed. We are desperately reliant on Pogba and Matic in that department.
 
It's no kind of an excuse at all. He needs to adapt. He needs to improve. He needs to become competent at playing more than one tailor-made role. He needs to get in positions to get a pass, even if 9 out of 10 times the pass doesn't come. He needs to look at what's working in a match and adapt to it.

He's young, he's got plenty of time to improve. Meanwhile, United have to play two games a week, and get results.

If barcelona or Bayern come calling he'll have an easy way out who would be willing to play on his strengths and get absolutely best out of him like lvg did and that could then turn his mind to stick or twist.

He has a elite ceiling which of not reached can make him look elsewhere and again people will have to blame mourinho.

Despite making him adapt for a year and more if he's failing to do so we have an option of utilizing him to his strenghts like playing in a 3412 or 343 as striker which can get him in the box more where he becomes deadly.

Rather than playing on mkhs strenghts we need to play on martial and rashford s strenghts and get the best out of them. Both have a higher celing then mkh.

We need to choose our battle wisely.
 
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The new Nani*, some obvious talent and threat but never going to do it over and over and over.
*Though not as good as Nani.
 
If barcelona or Bayern come calling he'll have an easy way out who would be willing to play on his strengths and get absolutely best out of him like lvg did and that could then turn his mind to stick or twist.

If they come in for him, it'll be because they think they can use him in a way that improves their team. But that's a matter of timing and it'll be driven by their overall team strengths and weaknesses, and creating an XI that gives them results.

Barcelona didn't even play to Neymar's strengths, because that wasn't what they needed from him. There are no free rides in football, even for top talents.
 
If they come in for him, it'll be because they think they can use him in a way that improves their team. But that's a matter of timing and it'll be driven by their overall team strengths and weaknesses, and creating an XI that gives them results.

Barcelona didn't even play to Neymar's strengths, because that wasn't what they needed from him. There are no free rides in football, even for top talents.

And neymar left. Both barcelona and Bayern are desperate for talents. It could become a real possibility if martial fails to adapt, because it will go down as another one mourinho did not make good use of.

He can use all the saf treatment of Ronaldo he likes on martial I don't think he'll have the attitude to stick and keep adapting if it's not working to his strenghts.

Using him on his strenghts is a good solution and I think mourinho should play him as a forward than a wing player.
 
Right from the first post I said he had minimal defensive responsibility ( which I said by saying he had 0 defensive responsibility) so not sure where you see contradiction. If anyone thinks Martial game was poor because of his defensive responsibility or he was worried about defensive role then they are just looking for excuses.
You think minimal and zero mean the same thing?
 
You think minimal and zero mean the same thing?

Player is out of this world, do you think that means he is outside the world?
Player got wand of a left foot, you really think player has a wand in his foot?
 
And neymar left. Both barcelona and Bayern are desperate for talents. It could become a real possibility if martial fails to adapt, because it will go down as another one mourinho did not make good use of.

He can use all the saf treatment of Ronaldo he likes on martial I don't think he'll have the attitude to stick and keep adapting if it's not working to his strenghts.

Using him on his strenghts is a good solution and I think mourinho should play him as a forward than a wing player.
But they gained a lot from not using him at his best so to speak. Teams will always do what suit them most before the player's happiness.
 
The knee jerk reactions in this thread are ridiculous, but expected. Even when he was playing very well up until a few weeks ago his performances were being constantly downplayed, so it's no surprise to see people saying he's fecking garbage and after a couple of poor games.
 
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He's not garbage. And he's not great (as some MUFC fans believe him to be).
What is factually correct is that off the bench, against tired defenders, he is terrific. When he starts games, against fresh defenders, for whatever reason, he is not able to have the same impact.
The only game where he started and played well throughout was against Burton, who were really bad.
 
The knee jerk reactions in this thread are ridiculous, but expected. Even when he was playing very well up until a few weeks ago his performances were being constantly downplayed, so it's no surprise to see people saying he's fecking garbage and after a couple of poor games.
We are constantly being told by the Martial FC brigade that he has to play and that he's a potential Ballon d'Or winner. Obviously when he does play, and is shite, it's going to be pointed out.

I'm glad you edited out the "will never amount to anything" part because I don't think anyone has said that.
 
He's not garbage. And he's not great (as some MUFC fans believe him to be).
What is factually correct is that off the bench, against tired defenders, he is terrific. When he starts games, against fresh defenders, for whatever reason, he is not able to have the same impact.
The only game where he started and played well throughout was against Burton, who were really bad.

Played very well against CSKA Moscow too.
 
We are constantly being told by the Martial FC brigade that he has to play and that he's a potential Ballon d'Or winner. Obviously when he does play, and is shite, it's going to be pointed out.

I'm glad you edited out the "will never amount to anything" part because I don't think anyone has said that.

Meh, I misread a post above.
 
But they gained a lot from not using him at his best so to speak. Teams will always do what suit them most before the player's happiness.

They are a two team league. I don't think so we can afford to loose martial level talent without replacing him who has such skills to break and toy with any defense in the world when used on his strenghts.

It's best for our team as a whole to play martial further forward without defensive duties and not expect him to play a winger role.
 
They are a two team league. I don't think so we can afford to loose martial level talent without replacing him who has such skills to break and toy with any defense in the world when used on his strenghts.

It's best for our team as a whole to play martial further forward without defensive duties and not expect him to play a winger role.
I haven't followed the entire discussion, are you suggesting we use him upfront as a striker or that we should play him out wide but give him no defensive responsibility?
 
The knee jerk reactions in this thread are ridiculous, but expected. Even when he was playing very well up until a few weeks ago his performances were being constantly downplayed, so it's no surprise to see people saying he's fecking garbage and after a couple of poor games.
Who says he's garbage?
 
Who says he's garbage?

Don't ruin my drama queen moment by wanting me to come up with actual evidence.

In all seriousness, no one has been that extreme in his opinion, but there have been some massive overreactions after every single average or poor display from Martial, mostly overstating his inconsistency.

Both him and Rashford are pretty consistent for their age. It all comes down to using them properly.
 
Don't ruin my drama queen moment by wanting me to come up with actual evidence.

In all seriousness, no one has been that extreme in his opinion, but there have been some massive overreactions after every single average or poor display from Martial, mostly overstating his inconsistency.

Both him and Rashford are pretty consistent for their age. It all comes down to using them properly.
Fair enough. I just think he was disappointing yesterday and should have been smarter in the way he handled himself. Getting that stupid yellow and losing his focus a bit is never good.
 
Martial will not shine on the wing under mourinho's tactics. He does not have the natural game suited to it, And he is finding it difficult to adapt to it.

He is a left sided striker who is deadly around the box and needs time to dribble with the ball to create chances, He cant even reach attacking areas with defensive duties asked off him and the ball circulation does not find him in right areas in attack.

Its a no brainer and no surprize his best came in a 343 system in the champions league where he had no defensive duties because of a wing back. He has to be used better. This cant continue. Should be deployed in a 3412 system as a striker along with lukaku.


Is there any elite modern day attacker without defensive duties?

People need to go and watch Messi and Ronaldo carefully. Take your eyes off their attacking and scoring for a whole match and just focus on them defending. You'll be shocked. It's amazing the type of shift those guys put into each game. I watched Ali (not so elite admittedly) and Kane today and I was VERY impressed by their defensive play. This idea that a player can be let off defensive duties in today's 'mass-attack - mass- defence' style of football, is unrealistic. As long as an attacker is not asked to play as a center back, he had better be ready to put in defensive shifts. It's like saying the modern day full back shouldn't go forward and attack. We already see how that is panning out for our team when the full backs can't surge forward and put into defence splitting crosses.

Watch how defenders like Pique, Ramos, etc add to their teams' attacks. As it works with defenders, so does it work with modern day attackers.

As talented as he is, Martial will just have to develop his game all round and that includes his off ball runs, positioning and defending.
 
Is there any elite modern day attacker without defensive duties?

People need to go and watch Messi and Ronaldo carefully. Take your eyes off their attacking and scoring for a whole match and just focus on them defending. You'll be shocked. It's amazing the type of shift those guys put into each game. I watched Ali (not so elite admittedly) and Kane today and I was VERY impressed by their defensive play. This idea that a player can be let off defensive duties in today's 'mass-attack - mass- defence' style of football, is unrealistic. As long as an attacker is not asked to play as a center back, he had better be ready to put in defensive shifts. It's like saying the modern day full back shouldn't go forward and attack. We already see how that is panning out for our team when the full backs can't surge forward and put into defence splitting crosses.

Watch how defenders like Pique, Ramos, etc add to their teams' attacks. As it works with defenders, so does it work with modern day attackers.

As talented as he is, Martial will just have to develop his game all round and that includes his off ball runs, positioning and defending.

Its the go to excuse when he under performs.

You cannot be an elite player playing only one side of the game, you cannot be managed by an elite coach playing one side of the game.

People that say he would be playing amazing under Pep are clueless; Pep demands far more from his players when it comes to positional discipline than Mourinho.
 
Is there any elite modern day attacker without defensive duties?

People need to go and watch Messi and Ronaldo carefully. Take your eyes off their attacking and scoring for a whole match and just focus on them defending. You'll be shocked. It's amazing the type of shift those guys put into each game. I watched Ali (not so elite admittedly) and Kane today and I was VERY impressed by their defensive play. This idea that a player can be let off defensive duties in today's 'mass-attack - mass- defence' style of football, is unrealistic. As long as an attacker is not asked to play as a center back, he had better be ready to put in defensive shifts. It's like saying the modern day full back shouldn't go forward and attack. We already see how that is panning out for our team when the full backs can't surge forward and put into defence splitting crosses.

Watch how defenders like Pique, Ramos, etc add to their teams' attacks. As it works with defenders, so does it work with modern day attackers.

As talented as he is, Martial will just have to develop his game all round and that includes his off ball runs, positioning and defending.

Was watching this video some days ago.



Watch how Messi is defending and pressing the backs and wingers to earn the ball back to his teammates and build a sudden attack on the opposite team. This is part of football. There's no 100% freedom for anyone.

Needless to say if Messi didn't do all of this pressure and tackling no one will ever question him for due to his other contribution but he's doing it for the sake of the team.
 
Is there any elite modern day attacker without defensive duties?

People need to go and watch Messi and Ronaldo carefully. Take your eyes off their attacking and scoring for a whole match and just focus on them defending. You'll be shocked. It's amazing the type of shift those guys put into each game. I watched Ali (not so elite admittedly) and Kane today and I was VERY impressed by their defensive play. This idea that a player can be let off defensive duties in today's 'mass-attack - mass- defence' style of football, is unrealistic. As long as an attacker is not asked to play as a center back, he had better be ready to put in defensive shifts. It's like saying the modern day full back shouldn't go forward and attack. We already see how that is panning out for our team when the full backs can't surge forward and put into defence splitting crosses.

Watch how defenders like Pique, Ramos, etc add to their teams' attacks. As it works with defenders, so does it work with modern day attackers.

As talented as he is, Martial will just have to develop his game all round and that includes his off ball runs, positioning and defending.

The thing is players who have high work rate and off the ball attacking runs have no problem in defensive duties. The players who lack work rate have problem indoing both duties togetherand it affects their performances. Specially young players need freedom to expressthemselves in attacking areas to gain them confidence to take people on, when they can do that properly than you bud defensive duties resposibilities on them. Martialis a young player still along with rashford and he needs that freedom to express himself in attack. Rashford is younger than martial but has a mature atitude to him and much higher work rate , energy and attitude so he is capable of doing both effectively.

Many players with skills will suffer in defensive duties in a 4231 where you need to run 100 m up and down the pitch instead of just 50 askedby some managers.

Antono conte did this with hazard and pedro andillian last season and instantly chelsea's attacking poweress was much better than mourinho's previous season. Similarly sane and sterling have veryless defensive duties to perform , Ronaldo and bale do not defend like mourinho wants in a team.

I am not defending martial's bad performances but this is one of the reason he is not effective one bit. He is better used when he's around the box and he looses the ball before he gets there and no one finds him in the box after wards.

Also teams like barcelona circulate theball much beter and use the space much better than our passing has been which is not very good at all against big sides so martial does not get time and space on the ball when he's too deep at the same time.
 
I haven't followed the entire discussion, are you suggesting we use him upfront as a striker or that we should play him out wide but give him no defensive responsibility?

I am suggesting of either playing him in a 343 out wide and a LWF or in a two man attack up front along with lukaku sohe gets in the box more in something like 3412 or 352 or even a 4312 with attacking fullbacks to provide crosses.

He is attacking talents are completely nullified when playing a 4231 specially against teams who playing attacking football against us and hold the ball much better.
 
He's 21 years old! What standards we set players to is ridiculous. There are many players that end as legends who simply were not as good as he is now at his age. Henry being an example, zidane another. He's our player, we get behind him for better or worse. If anything, the senior players on our team should be held much more accountable to performances such as over the weekend. Mata and Herrera for one, another with Young. They have all been there before. They should lead by example on the pitch.
 
Its the go to excuse when he under performs.

You cannot be an elite player playing only one side of the game, you cannot be managed by an elite coach playing one side of the game.

People that say he would be playing amazing under Pep are clueless; Pep demands far more from his players when it comes to positional discipline than Mourinho.

True, that.
 
Was watching this video some days ago.



Watch how Messi is defending and pressing the backs and wingers to earn the ball back to his teammates and build a sudden attack on the opposite team. This is part of football. There's no 100% freedom for anyone.

Needless to say if Messi didn't do all of this pressure and tackling no one will ever question him for due to his other contribution but he's doing it for the sake of the team.



Amazing video.

Those who think an attacking player should not be saddled with defensive duties should watch this and learn from the master of attacking football himself: Lionel Messi.

In today's football, the attacker must defend and the defender must attack.
 
Amazing video.

Those who think an attacking player should not be saddled with defensive duties should watch this and learn from the master of attacking football himself: Lionel Messi.

In today's football, the attacker must defend and the defender must attack.

Our situation is different to them. Lukaku gets isolated in attack and nullified eaisily if there is no one to feed or share the goal scoring burdrn with him. Its not the time tomake martial defend. we need him to attack create assist and score and should have no hesitation in putting him up front without defensive duties.

We havealready lost a title on goal difference we need more goals as simple as that. Leave the defensive duties on wingbacks in the epl and just make martial and rashford go inside opposition boxes with the ball.
 
He's 21 years old! What standards we set players to is ridiculous. There are many players that end as legends who simply were not as good as he is now at his age. Henry being an example, zidane another. He's our player, we get behind him for better or worse. If anything, the senior players on our team should be held much more accountable to performances such as over the weekend. Mata and Herrera for one, another with Young. They have all been there before. They should lead by example on the pitch.

The only one putting massive pressure on the boy are his cult following that demand he starts and massively overrate his performances whenever he plays (good or bad). Young players have to earn the right to play not play how they want and force the manager to change the team for him. Giggs, Beckham, Ronaldo, Rooney all had to do the dirty work for the team before they were given the trust to lead the attack. Even Messi had to be a hard working winger in his first few years at Barcelona (his famous goal at Getafe started at the half way line, not up the pitch where you would expect an attacker to be).

I have a feeling that LVG was soft on Martial and gave him the keys to our attack, but now he is not the preferred striker by the new manager he is struggling to deal with the demands placed on him. I am not saying to sell him, I am simply saying that there is room for improvement.
 
Is there any elite modern day attacker without defensive duties?

People need to go and watch Messi and Ronaldo carefully. Take your eyes off their attacking and scoring for a whole match and just focus on them defending. You'll be shocked. It's amazing the type of shift those guys put into each game. I watched Ali (not so elite admittedly) and Kane today and I was VERY impressed by their defensive play. This idea that a player can be let off defensive duties in today's 'mass-attack - mass- defence' style of football, is unrealistic. As long as an attacker is not asked to play as a center back, he had better be ready to put in defensive shifts. It's like saying the modern day full back shouldn't go forward and attack. We already see how that is panning out for our team when the full backs can't surge forward and put into defence splitting crosses.

Watch how defenders like Pique, Ramos, etc add to their teams' attacks. As it works with defenders, so does it work with modern day attackers.

As talented as he is, Martial will just have to develop his game all round and that includes his off ball runs, positioning and defending.

Messi doesn't actually do any defending any more so he's not the best example. He'll occasionally press when he thinks he can win the ball or force a mistake but generally he just walks around and lets the other players defend and win the ball back. It's tactical. He's just better than everyone else so they don't waste his energy with defending.

Obviously this has no relevance to Martial who does work hard defensively.
 
Can't be arsed reading through this awful thread. Why are we discussing Martial's defending? Surely that's not something that's being criticised now? He's been quite dutiful in his tracking back under Mourinho.
 
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