[haram]

Players don't play in fixed positions. They will always move and change positions like how Ronaldo and Giggs swapped sides throughout the games. Rashford played in all possible positions today once he was on.

Martial is one dimensional and his movement isn't good enough. Keep Rashford on the left, he's the better option. Why should we ruin having Rashford on the left just to accommodate Martial.

 

[fellaini's barber]

He was poor today, there's no excuse than can be made about that performance, worst showing of the season so far.

 

[ti vu]

Players don't play in fixed positions. They will always move and change positions like how Ronaldo and Giggs swapped sides throughout the games. Rashford played in all possible positions today once he was on.

Agree to some extend but need context. We have solid full back defending and helping with attack back then. Also not to forget SAF's tactic place heavy emphathy on wing way. Also the conductive SS, third midfielder with ability to play wide help, be it Giggs, Fletcher, Anderson, Rooney, even Cleverley... This means when the wingers, wide attackers swap wing, we maintain the solidity of the team structure. This teams, our no 10 ain't that good in their primary position, let alone stay wide for too long in transition phase. Problem with left back position is huge. The potential ain't fulfulifn theirs. The disciplined defensive sound can't attack. The more balanced is lukeswarm and need stability in system to help them out... thus making it a big miss to constantly swap wide players in game. Rashford is more blanked option on the left which understandably preferred in many of partnership on the left side with our left back.

 

[Home&Away]

This has emotional investment written all over it. Mkhitaryan is a winger playing as a no.10, Mata is a no.10 playing as a winger, Ashley Young isnt even a footballer and is playing at both left back and right wing, Lingard doesnt have a position but runs a lot.

None of this matters when they have a poor performance, because if you are at the right level of quality you don't need the perfect conditions to have a good performance.

If Martial is as good as people claim then he should have no problem playing as a winger, he may not be at his best level but that is no excuse to put in such a poor performance.

That's just so much trash. Would robben play good on the left or Cam? What about Lukaku back at RW at Chelsea? Or de bryune in similar positions. Players play in certain positions that they are suited to; it's got absolutely nothing to do with romance. If you want more examples I'd be glad to continue with players who would struggle more in a certain position compared to others.

 

[In Rainbows]

Martial is one dimensional and his movement isn't good enough. Keep Rashford on the left, he's the better option. Why should we ruin having Rashford on the left just to accommodate Martial.

He's not one dimensional at all. You seem to ignore the fact that he likes to start the 1-2s which are based on a simple pass and go. He's also the guy you want in tight spaces to link up play.

Even in today's game when he was poor there was a chance for him to get played in, but Lingard messed up the pass. He was poor today, but your overreaction is ridiculous. the idea that he's no longer fit to be a starter is based on Liverpool and today's match. Let's be honest. You guys have an extremely short memory.

 

[roonster09]

Martial is one dimensional and his movement isn't good enough. Keep Rashford on the left, he's the better option. Why should we ruin having Rashford on the left just to accommodate Martial.

You underrate Martial a lot. Not sure why you call him one dimensional.

Agree to some extend but need context. We have solid full back defending and helping with attack back then. Also not to forget SAF's tactic place heavy emphathy on wing way. Also the conductive SS, third midfielder with ability to play wide help, be it Giggs, Fletcher, Anderson, Rooney, even Cleverley... This means when the wingers, wide attackers swap wing, we maintain the solidity of the team structure. This teams, our no 10 ain't that good in their primary position, let alone stay wide for too long in transition phase. Problem with left back position is huge. The potential ain't fulfulifn theirs. The disciplined defensive sound can't attack. The more balanced is lukeswarm and need stability in system to help them out... thus making it a big miss to constantly swap wide players in game. Rashford is more blanked option on the left which understandably preferred in many of partnership on the left side with our left back.

What you said is correct, that we need proper structure before we start playing wingers who interchange a lot. Right now we are struggling as our attack from right wing is non existent. Our full backs hardly overlap as it is, so interchanging wingers shouldn't be a problem for them as there is 0 combination play between our wingers and full backs which is a big shame as we had arguably the best when we had Evra.

Right now I can't think of a better team than playing both as we are very much dependent on left winger creating all the chances.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Some are so in love with him that they find offense in criticism of Martial without mentioning others. Every player is getting ripped to shreds in their respective threads.
It ain't a sin to say that he was shit, just like against Liverpool and Benfica.

Every match he keeps getting subbed off, today he just got 45 minutes when there even more useless players in the pitch, who proceeded onto do absolutely nothing. It feels like every time we are under pressure to score a goal, he's the first one to get subbed off. I'm not saying he should be played on however bad he plays but there are other players who were equally bad who could have been substituted. He got a yellow card today early on which in itself was pretty stupid of the referee, shouldn't the manager had the confidence in his player and ask him to refrain from doing any more stupid things? We would have had another good attacker to try and score goals instead of Lingard doing his best impression of running around like a headless chicken.

It's not his fault, it's Mourinho's. He'll be off to Barca in the summer and Mourinho will destroy the club.

It's quite clear that you hate Martial, so quit with the snarky replies.

This has emotional investment written all over it. Mkhitaryan is a winger playing as a no.10, Mata is a no.10 playing as a winger, Ashley Young isnt even a footballer and is playing at both left back and right wing, Lingard doesnt have a position but runs a lot.

None of this matters when they have a poor performance, because if you are at the right level of quality you don't need the perfect conditions to have a good performance.

If Martial is as good as people claim then he should have no problem playing as a winger, he may not be at his best level but that is no excuse to put in such a poor performance.

You point will be valid if the players who you mentioned did well today, but everyone you mentioned played pretty bad today. May be that's what wrong with our attacking play, too many square pegs in round holes?

 

[haram]

Yeah, of course I hate Martial.

Some of you are fecking blind.

Lets push one of our best players in Rashford onto the right just to accomodate Martial! How about Martial gets better as a player and takes Rashford's spot?

He's not one dimensional at all. You seem to ignore the fact that he likes to start the 1-2s which are based on a simple pass and go. He's also the guy you want in tight spaces to link up play.

Even in today's game when he was poor there was a chance for him to get played in, but Lingard messed up the pass. He was poor today, but your overreaction is ridiculous. the idea that he's no longer fit to be a starter is based on Liverpool and today's match. Let's be honest. You guys have an extremely short memory.

Wow! He can do 1-2s! Lets push Rashford to the right and affect HIS game because we want Martial in the team so bad!

 

[Dobbs]

Its very common in this thread. It seems to be never the problem of Martial when he has a poor performance. When Lingard, Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Hererra have a poor performance they are demolished in their performance threads.

What are you reading? There's a shed load of criticism in this thread.

 

[Dobbs]

Yeah, of course I hate Martial.

Some of you are fecking blind.

Lets push one of best players in Rashford onto the right just to accomodate Martial! How about Martial gets better as a player and takes Rashford's spot?



Wow! He can do 1-2s! Lets push Rashford to thr right and affect HIS game because we want Martial in the team so bad.

Or we look at what's best for the team and play both? Rather than continuing this "competition" between the two.

 

[kouroux]

Every match he keeps getting subbed off, today he just got 45 minutes when there even more useless players in the pitch, who proceeded onto do absolutely nothing. It feels like every time we are under pressure to score a goal, he's the first one to get subbed off. I'm not saying he should be played on however bad he plays but there are other players who were equally bad who could have been substituted. He got a yellow card today early on which in itself was pretty stupid of the referee, shouldn't the manager had the confidence in his player and ask him to refrain from doing any more stupid things? We would have had another good attacker to try and score goals instead of Lingard doing his best impression of running around like a headless chicken.

What makes you think he didn't try to do that in the 1st half ? Once he saw that Martial got dangerously close, maybe he didn't wanna risk it? That's a weird thing to criticize Mourinho, Martial was ineffective and he almost got booked a second time. Perfectly understandable to take him off.

 

[breakout67]

That's just so much trash. Would robben play good on the left or Cam? What about Lukaku back at RW at Chelsea? Or de bryune in similar positions. Players play in certain positions that they are suited to; it's got absolutely nothing to do with romance. If you want more examples I'd be glad to continue with players who would struggle more in a certain position compared to others.

It would be great if you did some due diligence before posting. Robben played on the left wing for Chelsea and was nominated for the best player of the season! De Bruyne played as a CAM for wolfsburg now he plays as a CM for city. Lukaku funnily enough has shown more quality on the right wing that any of our other players this season. Good players do not need the perfect circumstances to put in good performances.

You've created a fantasy land where Martial has a set position as a central player. Martial is an inverted forward; even when he plays centrally he has a wide starting position and moves inwards towards the goal. He played both as a striker under LVG then a left winger when Rashford came through. At Monaco he played both as a striker and a left winger.

To suggest that playing a right footed inverted forward on the left wing is mismanagement is ludicrous.

 

[Dobbs]

What makes you think he didn't try to do that in the 1st half ? Once he saw that Martial got dangerously close, maybe he didn't wanna risk it? That's a weird thing to criticize Mourinho, Martial was ineffective and he almost got booked a second time. Perfectly understandable to take him off.

Nah you've got to give players a chance. You're not going to get the best out of a player when you make it abundantly clear they don't have your full confidence. He was subbed off today after a poor first half. He was subbed off against Liverpool before anyone else for no obvious reason. That's when he gets picked in the first place.

His bad half today is on Martial but you've got to give players a chance to turn things around.

 

[ti vu]

You underrate Martial a lot. Not sure why you call him one dimensional.



What you said is correct, that we need proper structure before we start playing wingers who interchange a lot. Right now we are struggling as our attack from right wing is non existent. Our full backs hardly overlap as it is, so interchanging wingers shouldn't be a problem for them as there is 0 combination play between our wingers and full backs which is a big shame as we had arguably the best when we had Evra.

Right now I can't think of a better team than playing both as we are very much dependent on left winger creating all the chances.

I can understand you are talking about transition from defense or recycling possession to (counter) attack, which I don't disagree. I was covering also the transition from losing possession to recover possession, or going back to defensive phase. This is hard to do given Rashford is preferred due to his better overall defensive game, covering for the left back.

 

[Home&Away]

It would be great if you did some due diligence before posting. Robben played on the left wing for Chelsea and was nominated for the best player of the season! De Bruyne played as a CAM for wolfsburg now he plays as a CM for city. Lukaku funnily enough has shown more quality on the right wing that any of our other players this season. Good players do not need the perfect circumstances to put in good performances.

You've created a fantasy land where Martial has a set position as a central player. Martial is an inverted forward; even when he plays centrally he has a wide starting position and moves inwards towards the goal. He played both as a striker under LVG then a left winger when Rashford came through. At Monaco he played both as a striker and a left winger.

To suggest that playing a right footed inverted forward on the left wing is mismanagement is ludicrous.

You said it yourself - Martial has played as a striker but not here for a long time; my set fantasy is being aided by the fact not only do I believe martials worse position is at LW due to his tendency to do the same thing aswell as the fact he hasn't been used at St By José yet.

If he does that & fails playing centrally then by all means I will say I was wrong. Until then it is a fantasy indeed but not a ludicrous one.

 

[spiriticon]

I find that he's excellent as a sub, but doesn't have that same impact when he starts. I can't understand why.

 

[haram]

Or we look at what's best for the team and play both? Rather than continuing this "competition" between the two.

Is pushing one of best forwards onto the right really whats best for the team?

I find that he's excellent as a sub, but doesn't have that same impact when he starts. I can't understand why.

It's pretty simple. When he has come on this season we are already up in the game. Teams aren't sitting back as they have to attack us. Martial exploits the space that is left.

 

[roonster09]

I can understand you are talking about transition from defense or recycling possession to (counter) attack, which I don't disagree. I was covering also the transition from losing possession to recover possession, or going back to defensive phase. This is hard to do given Rashford is preferred due to his better overall defensive game, covering for the left back.

Yeah but Martial isn't lazy either, not exactly like Rashford but for attacking player his work rate is good. Would love to see us playing with more courage rather than worrying about defensive contributions from attackers.

 

[Home&Away]

Is pushing one of best forwards onto the right really whats best for the team?

Better than one on the bench I think if we play them more narrowly.

 

[roonster09]

Is pushing one of best forwards onto the right really whats best for the team?

Mbappe had superb season as striker, signed for 160 Million and he is playing as right attacking player. It's not doing him any harm.

Again why are you worried about starting position which means nothing but just a display on paper? Did you see where was Rashford today? He played as a LW, RW, AM and as CF. He was in every position at various times.

 

[kouroux]

Nah you've got to give players a chance. You're not going to get the best out of a player when you make it abundantly clear they don't have your full confidence. He was subbed off today after a poor first half. He was subbed off against Liverpool before anyone else for no obvious reason. That's when he gets picked in the first place.

His bad half today is on Martial but you've got to give players a chance to turn things around.

No obvious reason ? Are you serious ? Joe Gomez handled him way too easily each time he faced him. Open your eyes man, Martial is being chances, he's taken some and at times he hasn't. He is a great talent but it's not shocking to see subbed so often.

 

[haram]

Mbappe had superb season as striker, signed for 160 Million and he is playing as right attacking player. It's not doing him any harm.

Again why are you worried about starting position which means nothing but just a display on paper? Did you see where was Rashford today? He played as a LW, RW, AM and as CF. He was in every position at various times.

That's because we changed shape and Rashford wasn't playing at LF. Martial isn't better than Rashford at LF. We shouldn't ruin Rashford's effectiveness by putting him on the right just to play someone who has difficulties like Martial.

You can keep saying it's just positions on paper, but the reality is pushing Rashford to the right is doing exactly that.

 

[ti vu]

Yeah but Martial isn't lazy either, not exactly like Rashford but for attacking player his work rate is good. Would love to see us playing with more courage rather than worrying about defensive contributions from attackers.

I am saying Martial is lazy, but some full backs from opposition side, need extra defensive ability to stay with them constantly. They may exploit the gap when we're interchanging position coming into defensive phase. I mentioned the third field, SS, no 10 under SAF because these guys were quite good under SAF, that helps smoothing the transition both way which released Ronaldo. Right now, we have problem for this conductive player, which potentially cause more problem than helping during transition phase.

 

[breakout67]

You said it yourself - Martial has played as a striker but not here for a long time; my set fantasy is being aided by the fact not only do I believe martials worse position is at LW due to his tendency to do the same thing aswell as the fact he hasn't been used at St By José yet.

If he does that & fails playing centrally then by all means I will say I was wrong. Until then it is a fantasy indeed but not a ludicrous one.

You've missed my point completely. Martial has already shown good performances on the left wing. To excuse poor performances by saying he is a striker is nonsense!

We have plenty of evidence from Monaco and his first season here that he can perform at a good level as a LW.

 

[roonster09]

I am saying Martial is lazy, but some full backs from opposition side, need extra defensive ability to stay with them constantly. They may exploit the gap when we're interchanging position coming into defensive phase. I mentioned the third field, SS, no 10 under SAF because these guys were quite good under SAF, that helps smoothing the transition both way which released Ronaldo. Right now, we have problem for this conductive player, which potentially cause more problem than helping during transition phase.

Playing Mata as RW would be contradiction to your argument isn't it as he is very weak defensively, not saying he is lazy but weak. So still I don't see why it would be an issue to play both with Mata as attacking mid. Might suit everyone as our wide players will create chances as they are more or less our best attackers, Mata/Mkhitaryan will have pacey players to release the ball quickly.

 

[roonster09]

That's because we changed shape and Rashford wasn't playing at LF. Martial isn't better than Rashford at LF. We shouldn't ruin Rashford's effectiveness by putting him on the right just to play someone who has difficulties like Martial.

You can keep saying it's just positions on paper, but the reality is pushing Rashford to the right is doing exactly that.

Rashford wasn't playing as LW, he was all over the place in a good way, exactly what I was saying and used as support to my argument.

 

[Home&Away]

You've missed my point completely. Martial has already shown good performances on the left wing. To excuse poor performances by saying he is a striker is nonsense!

We have plenty of evidence from Monaco and his first season here that he can perform at a good level as a LW.

. Just because martial has the ability to cut in on his strongest foot isn't mean it's getting the best out of him. Martial has the ability to dribble directly against the central of defence and take players on which never happens because he consistently stuck out wide trying to beat a fullback by cutting in all the time by making one little maneuver. I watch him play & I know exactly what he is going to do next; whenever he has the ball at his feet & already has some tempo to his stride he is much less predictable & a joy to watch.

Stick him out left he will always cut in and is a pain to watch because how predictable he is. Let him roam around centrally more & he can pull of wide occasionally or directly attack the central defenders with pace. Tell me what he is going to do? Because I don't know - because he becomes unpredictable to defend against.

 

[Dobbs]

Is pushing one of best forwards onto the right really whats best for the team?

Yeah it probably is. I'm guessing you want a team that's a threat from both sides? I don't see any other way of achieving that without playing both of them.

I'm sure Rashford would still be one of our best playing on the right.

No obvious reason ? Are you serious ? Joe Gomez handled him way too easily each time he faced him. Open your eyes man, Martial is being chances, he's taken some and at times he hasn't. He is a great talent but it's not shocking to see subbed so often.

Missed my point. The whole team was being handled yet he, despite probably being the best of our attackers, was taken off first. Other players should have been off before him.

That's just one instance. You don't get the best from players by putting them on a tightrope.

 

[haram]

Rashford wasn't playing as LW, he was all over the place in a good way, exactly what I was saying and used as support to my argument.

In normal circumstances he would be on the left. Today was different and we changed the system which was my point.

 

[kouroux]

Yeah it probably is. I'm guessing you want a team that's a threat from both sides? I don't see any other way of achieving that without playing both of them.

I'm sure Rashford would still be one of our best playing on the right.



Missed my point. The whole team was being handled yet he, despite probably being the best of our attackers, was taken off first. Other players should have been off before him.

That's just one instance. You don't get the best from players by putting them on a tightrope.

While being shit on that day. He was taken off, big deal. Could he play more ? Sure. Is him being subbed a blunder by Mourinho, I don't think so.

 

[ti vu]

Playing Mata as RW would be contradiction to your argument isn't it as he is very weak defensively, not saying he is lazy but weak. So still I don't see why it would be an issue to play both with Mata as attacking mid. Might suit everyone as our wide players will create chances as they are more or less our best attackers, Mata/Mkhitaryan will have pacey players to release the ball quickly.

I meant tracking the opposition RB.

Let's break it down with example:

Martial is preferred to be on the left in attack phase. We lost the ball, which Rashford is preferred on the left track their RB. On our right, Valencia is our best option, and main stay which in defensive phase can cover for even Mata (I didn't dispute this point ever) There would be a gap in our structure which can be exploited.

Mata or Micky wouldn't be ideal to be the conductive to mark the opposition RB, until Rashford to be able to cross the pitch back into position, most of the time.

 

[kouroux]

. Just because martial has the ability to cut in on his strongest foot isn't mean it's getting the best out of him. Martial has the ability to dribble directly against the central of defence and take players on which never happens because he consistently stuck out wide trying to beat a fullback by cutting in all the time by making one little maneuver. I watch him play & I know exactly what he is going to do next; whenever he has the ball at his feet & already has some tempo to his stride he is much less predictable & a joy to watch.

Stick him out left he will always cut in and is a pain to watch because how predictable he is. Let him roam around centrally more & he can pull of wide occasionally or directly attack the central defenders with pace. Tell me what he is going to do? Because I don't know - because he becomes unpredictable to defend against.

Honestly, do you seriously think that central strikers have more opportunities to go 1v1 against defenders than players who play wide ? He'd have less time on the ball.

 

[haram]

I really dont see how Martial would be more effective down the middle.

 

[roonster09]

I meant tracking the opposition RB.

Let's break it down with example:

Martial is preferred to be on the left in attack phase. We lost the ball, which Rashford is preferred on the left track their RB. On our right, Valencia is our best option, and main stay which in defensive phase can cover for even Mata (I didn't dispute this point ever) There would be a gap in our structure which can be exploited.

Mata or Micky wouldn't be ideal to be the conductive to mark the opposition RB, until Rashford to be able to cross the pitch back into position, most of the time.

I got what you are saying, I'm saying it's very defensive oriented with filling gaps and all that. In most games we will be on front foot, so we should be more worried about creating than stopping attacks.

 

[breakout67]

. Just because martial has the ability to cut in on his strongest foot isn't mean it's getting the best out of him. Martial has the ability to dribble directly against the central of defence and take players on which never happens because he consistently stuck out wide trying to beat a fullback by cutting in all the time by making one little maneuver. I watch him play & I know exactly what he is going to do next; whenever he has the ball at his feet & already has some tempo to his stride he is much less predictable & a joy to watch.

Stick him out left he will always cut in and is a pain to watch because how predictable he is. Let him roam around centrally more & he can pull of wide occasionally or directly attack the central defenders with pace. Tell me what he is going to do? Because I don't know - because he becomes unpredictable to defend against.

So instead of a young player developing other aspects of his game we should revolve the whole team around him???

Lukaku is a far better striker than Martial, but he will go to the wings if he is asked for the sake of the team. Rashford broke through as a striker but now he is playing as a LW. Why should Martial get special treatment?

 

[Dobbs]

While being shit on that day. He was taken off, big deal. Could he play more ? Sure. Is him being subbed a blunder by Mourinho, I don't think so.

Not the point I was making if you look back.

It's simply a case of man management. You, me and everybody else knows Martial has zero leeway.

Whoever the player that's not how you get the best out of them. Even more so with a young player.

 

[JohnnyKills]

It's not his fault, it's Mourinho's. He'll be off to Barca in the summer and Mourinho will destroy the club.

Bit of an exaggeration but it is a worry. Hopefully Mourinho won't repeat his error with KDB.

 

[kouroux]

Not the point I was making if you look back.

It's simply a case of man management. You, me and everybody else knows Martial has zero leeway.

Whoever the player that's not how you get the best out of them. Even more so with a young player.

I don't disagree but this is reality he's in. He either swims or he sinks.

 

[haram]

So instead of a young player developing other aspects of his game we should revolve the whole team around him???

Lukaku is a far better striker than Martial, but he will go to the wings if he is asked for the sake of the team. Rashford broke through as a striker but now he is playing as a LW. Why should Martial get special treatment?

Exactly! Why the hell should we sacrifice the effectiveness of others for Martial? Because some of you like him so much?

 

[Dobbs]

I don't disagree but this is reality he's in. He either swims or he sinks.

True but maybe we have to look at why that's the reality.