The structure of previous Mourinho teams and his brand of football in general is why many of us are worried that Martial is simply not his type of player. And it would be a huge shame to lose him the same way Chelsea lost De Bruyne for the same reason. I'm not sure why this is that hard to grasp for many people. I understand that the club is bigger than Martial - but others should understand that it's bigger than Mourinho, too. We should not sacrifice one of our greatest assets for him. Let's hope he eventually shows some flexibility in this matter.
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Season Average Rating
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Well put.
Agree with the Pogba comments. I was mortified that SAF insisted upon leaving him out. I don't see any resemblance in the case of Martial though. It's early in the season, he's getting a fair amount of game time and there's no evidence to suggest he won't be relied upon for significant contributions when the big games come along. I think it's just way too early to get riled up about the starting lineup. You can't say that Rashford isn't producing decent performances, or that Mata/Mkhitaryan don't offer something different. I'm sure Jose is excited as you are about having a resurgent Martial up his sleeve.
Do you think that whatever Rashford,Mkhi and Mata are offering is so much better than Martial's that they should be ahead of him and Martial always on the bench? The guy has equal or even better output than players with much more playing time than him, how else is he suppose to earn his place as a starter if what he's doing right now isn't enough?
Wait for the biggest important games, and we'll see.
We've already seen that, those are the games even Lingard comes in ahead of Martial for his defensive contributions
Would y'all trade Marshall for griezman? If that was an option?
The whole Martial FC comments coming from some posters don't realize just how much they sound like Mourinho/Rashford FC themselves. To not comprehend how some have an issue with Rashford starting almost ever PL games (which is the priority this season) and that Martial should be happy being the player of the month and coming off for 20-30 minutes at the end of games and get his starts in the CL is simply being dense. There are some pretty clear case of Mourinho screwing up in recognizing the talent he has at his disposal which resulted in losing those players, as well as eventually getting fired down the line, with the club regretting no longer having those players.
Without a much more balanced rotation where Martial can start more in the Premier League, whether it's instead of Rashford/Mata/Mikhi, then I have no issue with him looking to force a move out, especially if his current situation winds up costing him a place in the world cup. It is still early, but there's already shades of mismanagement by Mourinho in regards to Tony. Mou is obviously dangling a carrot in front of him but if his current performances already have him over a thousand minutes behind Rashford in total playing time and it's not changing soon, I think Martial will tell him where he can stick that carrot and find an alternative. One player shouldn't drastically change a coach's gameplan; if it does then it's the coach's fault, not the player. There are more difficult jobs in football than winning by starting Martial and/or Rashford in a more balanced way so you keep everybody motivated instead of clearly favoring one who really doesn't bring much more than the other at all, or even worse rotate the two for Mata or Mikhi who have had very inconsistent games despite Mikhi's assists.
Without a much more balanced rotation where Martial can start more in the Premier League, whether it's instead of Rashford/Mata/Mikhi, then I have no issue with him looking to force a move out, especially if his current situation winds up costing him a place in the world cup. It is still early, but there's already shades of mismanagement by Mourinho in regards to Tony. Mou is obviously dangling a carrot in front of him but if his current performances already have him over a thousand minutes behind Rashford in total playing time and it's not changing soon, I think Martial will tell him where he can stick that carrot and find an alternative. One player shouldn't drastically change a coach's gameplan; if it does then it's the coach's fault, not the player. There are more difficult jobs in football than winning by starting Martial and/or Rashford in a more balanced way so you keep everybody motivated instead of clearly favoring one who really doesn't bring much more than the other at all, or even worse rotate the two for Mata or Mikhi who have had very inconsistent games despite Mikhi's assists.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I love how posters on an internet forum are getting riled up and blaming Mourinho for mismanagement when the player himself is happy and satisfied with his situation.
We're Joint top of the league, Top of our CL group and haven't lost a game and yet people want to break a winning formula because somehow they believe their favourite player is being mismanaged?
No chance
Yeah true, as we've won all the games that Fellaini's started, I'm looking forward to Pogba becoming a super sub once he returns too. Imagine how effective he could be against tired legs after Fellaini runs them ragged.
Our manager doesn't rate him all that much, same as he didn't Kevin De Bruyne. Nothing wrong with it as managers do tend to get that sort of thing wrong from time to time.
People need to stop comparing KDB case with Martial's one. KDB was always either an unused sub or out of the team sheet completely. That's not similar to Martial at all, as he's always used either a starter or as a sub.
If Martial is still used as an impact sub in the league come May, he may think about leaving. What can change that is United reaching the CL final with Martial playing a big role. Early days still but he is turning 22 in 2 months and it would suck for him if he isn't a regular starter at that age. Maybe Jose has to rotate him and Rashford in the league more often.
This. If he puts up the numbers and performances he will be hoping to start more often than not. I could see a Morata situation with him if his not given the games, his love for the club won't matter in the end
Well Mourinho did try to bring in Perisic, if Perisic had joined us then Martial would have been an unused sub or out of the team sheet completely.
Definitely, coz Mourinho is never going to love Martial and Griezman is better suited to Mourinho's style. But I don't think Atl. Madrid are that stupid, they'd probably ask Martial + 100m in the current market rate.
We'd pay his release clause so wouldn't be up to them to ask for anyone.
What ?
I would also not swap Martial with AG. I think Martial is arguably our most improved player this year (along with Jones) and his ceiling is very high. He also seems to love the club. One of the few players who will go to social media and squash rumours when they begin in the media, as he did last year. Admirable.
He's playing with joy in the capacity he is being used. I think he is being managed well given his output and attitude. I fully expect to see him become increasingly integrated in the fielded 11 and get more and more minutes as the season goes on.
Special player and a joy to watch.
He's playing with joy in the capacity he is being used. I think he is being managed well given his output and attitude. I fully expect to see him become increasingly integrated in the fielded 11 and get more and more minutes as the season goes on.
Special player and a joy to watch.
And how did you know that ? You entered Mourinho's mind or something ?
Not sure which part of my post you are not clear on. Mourinho not preferring Martial is clear, if you don't think then you are kidding yourself. Sure Mourinho will not come out say directly that he doesn't prefer him, but action speaks louder than words and Martial has got less minutes, less support when not in form. Mourinho and Simeone IMO have similar style, they both are defence first managers who expect their forwards to press and Griezmann has been very good for Atletico, so he will fit Mourinho perfectly well.
We might as well shutdown RedCafe if you need to enter Mourinho's mind to post something here. It's a discussion forum, people post their opinions here.
Where do you get that Mourinho doesn't prefer Martial. Has it occurred to you that he may be developing him as a long term player ?
I didn't prevent you from listing your opinion, but you stated that Martial will be unused sub if Perisic joined as a fact, as if you know what Mourinho will do this exactly.
I can jump in the same boat and say that Perisic will take Rashford's place on the left and him and Martial will be rotating on the left while Rashford will be the sub striker for Lukaku and will be the one damaged most from this transfer. See ? it's easy.
There are about 116 pages worth of comments in this thread discussing whether Mourinho prefers Martial or not, I don't have anything new to add. From what I'm seeing it's clear to me that Martial is decidedly second choice under Mourinho. We just have to agree to disagree if you think Mourinho is developing Martial as a long term player.
P.S. Mourinho in his entire career so far has never thought about long term.
I never said my post was a fact, it's my opinion based on watching Manchester United under Mourinho so far. Feel free to disagree with it but you questioned whether I knew the inner workings of Mourinho's mind as if it's a requirement to post a opinion here.
There's no such thing as second choice. Mourinho has simply found a formula this year that is working at the moment. Once it stops working he will change things around. Rotating players is a critical component of avoiding fatigue over a long season where we are often playing 2 games a week.
Re-read your post again and you'll see you write it as a fact.
Anyway I don't to drag it longer, and we have brought here multiple times before quotes from Mourinho himself saying he wanted Perisic as a wingback when he goes for 3. Will you believe the manager himself then ?
Furthermore , wouldn't Perisic be playing on the right? Martial is usually deployed on the left.
No. He plays on the left.
I see. So he's would be playing where Young is right now, presumably.
From the look of thing Mourinho initially wanted to go with 3 at the back as his main formation going into the season which is why I suspect he urgently bought another central defenders and wanted a Perisic like player while didn't bother looking for a LB despite it being a problem we've had.
Though with things not going according to plans(failing to acquire Perisic) he had to make due with what he had and has preferred going with 4 at the back because that suit our personel.
Had we acquire Perisic I suspect he'd have been the LWB with Lukaku and Rashford as our front 2. Of course the rest in the likes of Mata, Martial and Co would play when we'd sometimes adopt a style different to the 352 but I suspect it was going to be the predominant formation for his season.
His targets list tell the story.
Though with things not going according to plans(failing to acquire Perisic) he had to make due with what he had and has preferred going with 4 at the back because that suit our personel.
Had we acquire Perisic I suspect he'd have been the LWB with Lukaku and Rashford as our front 2. Of course the rest in the likes of Mata, Martial and Co would play when we'd sometimes adopt a style different to the 352 but I suspect it was going to be the predominant formation for his season.
His targets list tell the story.
He wouldn't be a LB in a back four. He'd either play where Rashford does, or there'd be a formation change to 3 at the back like Mourinho has said previously, with Perisic as LWB.
Well in that case I'm glad he didn't come.
The rotation thing is just an excuse, we have already lost Pogba most likely due to fatigue, Matic is playing every match, Mourinho has openly stated that Lukaku will not be rotated until Ibra comes back, Valencia, Miki are all starting every week. Mourinho is not known to rotate his squad, he pretty much sticks small pool of players.
if perisic had come in we would most likely be playing 3-5-2 as the main formation, Martial would still have been backup to Rashford IMO. And by the way pretty much all posts in RedCafe are opinions, the only facts are numbers.
Rotation is actually very important when you are dealing with a grueling 50-60 fixture season where players get fatigued, lose form, get injured, suspended etc. You can't logically take the first few fixtures this year and extrapolate that into some sort of sensical argument that this is how it will be for the entire year. It won't. Zlatan will come back, Rojo will come back, other players will get injured and different combinations of players will be used in a variety of roles. That's just how football is today.
Its a bit odd some posters can't accept a manager not really rating a player as highly as you'd expect. It's always happened. Always will.
One could've also said the same about Mkhitaryan for the first few months of last year. I don't see it as not rating a player, but rather as Mourinho slowly developing Martial into something he wants out of him.
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