Half of them against the mighty Burton I guess? It's one thing to score/asists for 3:0 and 4:0, it's another to unlock defences when it is still 0:0 against serious opposition. He was decent vs Leicester and Basle, not excelent by any means.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 11
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
Half of them against the mighty Burton I guess? It's one thing to score/asists for 3:0 and 4:0, it's another to unlock defences when it is still 0:0 against serious opposition. He was decent vs Leicester and Basle, not excelent by any means.
I reckon he'd be even happier if he were a regular to be fair. His 'happiness' has been used as validation a lot, logic would dictate he'd be happier if he played more.
1/3 against Burton. 2/3 against CSKA. These are the games he's been given, mate.
If he starts and scores it's because of shit opposition. If he comes on and scores, it's because the game is open. If he comes on and scores when the game is not open, it was because the defenders were tired.
Do you realise how stupid that sounds?
How many of the starts was his competition 'excellent' in?
It's a pretty short-termist thinking don't you think? When Oscar was preferred and Mourinho was happy enough to sell Lukaku to Everton, many Chelsea fans were thinking the same, now imagine how the Chelsea fans feel right now? It's not that people here have a blind devotion to Mourinho or that they think Martial is bigger than Manchester United, it's just that they see a brilliant young player being reduced as a substitute often.
Martial started the Leicester game, created a penalty which Lukaku missed, MoM against Burton Albion, MoM against CSKA too. How do you think Rashford is more reliable in difficult games? Is it his defensive contribution? Also we are yet to have a difficult game, don't you think Martial should have had a more starts in the PL?
It's a different yard stick for Martial. He has to be excellent in every game you see. Like Mata and Mkhi who have been excellent every game of course.
That's true for any player.
We have 2 excellent youngsters who are pushing each other to improve (as mentioned by Rashford). Ideally would love both to start but 2 young players fighting for a single position for a season won't be bad either.
Rashford contributed to the first goal vs Wham, Leicester, Stoke, Palace and Burton. That's half of our games so far. He's doing a very good job obviously. Jose sees no reason to shake things up.
But are they actually fighting for it ? Considering Rashfords consecutive starts in the league, no matter the performances (Everton and Southampton), it's not much of a competition.
I only focus on facts, the rest is conjectures. Team is playing well and that's the most important thing, not necessarily Martial's fulfilment
Not really. Martial is quite obviously second choice behind Rashford.
Eh? I could reply properly but it's of no use considering your posts and how you argue your points. So yeah, good day.
But it would be so good to see you reply properly for once, I think we'd all appreciate that
Who? Martial FC? Even there you look like a odd man out with your pathetic posts.
These petty and childish nonsense of calling and labelling others names such as "Martial FC" for disagreeing and holding different opinions is also quite pathetic.
I mean how old is the average caftard for nonsenses like that to drag on.
I mean how old is the average caftard for nonsenses like that to drag on.
If he wasn't already here and was producing this form for any non-elite European club, he'd be the top transfer target on the Caf.
We'd be posting YouTube videos every five minutes and saying we'd rather him than Griezmann.
He's so talented it's scary.
We'd be posting YouTube videos every five minutes and saying we'd rather him than Griezmann.
He's so talented it's scary.
Even more pathetic than moaning about player not playing right from the first game? There is a reason why few use Martial FC, for some people Martial >ManUtd.
I just don't see the argument against extending the rotation to more than just Rashford and Martial. If the argument that fighting for a position improves a player has merit (which it does, to some extent) then Mkhi and Mata having to fight for their positions might improve them too.
There is a thread currently "Mkhi must improve", which has been started because Mkhi's recent performances have been rather poor with a lot of turnovers and surrendered possession. Only salvaged by the occasional assist or goal towards the end of the game. Yet he's immune to rotation, while we micro-analyse Rashford and Martial who have both done very well all things considered.
You're actually defending and condoning this behavior?
The same Mkhi who didn't start a game for 2-3 months last season? Forget rotation he wasn't even in the match day squad for so many games.
I agree, whole attacking 3 should be rotated and I have said that many times already. I would love to watch both Martial and Rashford to start as they have superb link up play together.
Which behavior? Using Martial FC? I don't mind people using that as I believe few really care for Martial more than ManUtd.
Martial game time? In the last 9 games both started alternatively. But I want both of them to start rather than one or the other.
Which is a different point altogether.
It's a piss funny debate on so many different levels 
Makes it difficult not to pop in and pull threads.. It's a bit like hating the Kardashians but still watching them on the tv.
There's just so many absurd angles, from the Martial FC claims, the tactical claims depending on opposition, if he comes on and does well it's either because the opposition is tired or because they are shit, if he starts and does well it's because the opposition is shit. No matter what, there's always some absurd reason for it, and it only goes one way.. It's rotation, it's a test because Mourinho has such high hopes, he's giving him the Mkhi treatment because that worked wonders last season.
I have no idea why people feel the need to spout so much rubbish, going off in every possible direction with absurd theories... The reason isn't complicated, there is no scheming Mourinho trying to push buttons.
My claim is still the same (and I don't see it changing soon). There is no rotation. If there was a rotation, Rashford wouldn't have started 6/7 matches in the Premier League vs Martials one against Leicester. Performance wise, he was surprisingly poor against Everton and Southampton, if there was any rotation he wouldn't have started against Southampton and he would've been on the bench for Crystal Palace. Martial wasn't great against Leicester, by all means, but he was hardly poor either, won a penalty, served Pogba on a silver platter but the chance was wasted, and his great performance in the Champions League wasn't awarded with a start for the following match.
Rashford is first choice, it's that simple, and unless he plays poor over a long period of time, he will remain first choice. Overall he's had a very productive start, performances have varied from great to poor, but as long as that continues he'll start in the Premier League which is our main priority.
Makes it difficult not to pop in and pull threads.. It's a bit like hating the Kardashians but still watching them on the tv.
There's just so many absurd angles, from the Martial FC claims, the tactical claims depending on opposition, if he comes on and does well it's either because the opposition is tired or because they are shit, if he starts and does well it's because the opposition is shit. No matter what, there's always some absurd reason for it, and it only goes one way.. It's rotation, it's a test because Mourinho has such high hopes, he's giving him the Mkhi treatment because that worked wonders last season.
I have no idea why people feel the need to spout so much rubbish, going off in every possible direction with absurd theories... The reason isn't complicated, there is no scheming Mourinho trying to push buttons.
My claim is still the same (and I don't see it changing soon). There is no rotation. If there was a rotation, Rashford wouldn't have started 6/7 matches in the Premier League vs Martials one against Leicester. Performance wise, he was surprisingly poor against Everton and Southampton, if there was any rotation he wouldn't have started against Southampton and he would've been on the bench for Crystal Palace. Martial wasn't great against Leicester, by all means, but he was hardly poor either, won a penalty, served Pogba on a silver platter but the chance was wasted, and his great performance in the Champions League wasn't awarded with a start for the following match.
Rashford is first choice, it's that simple, and unless he plays poor over a long period of time, he will remain first choice. Overall he's had a very productive start, performances have varied from great to poor, but as long as that continues he'll start in the Premier League which is our main priority.
For me, Martial is absolutely a confidence player. He needs those goals and assists to keep him going. Right now, Jose's trying to figure out the best way to build up his confidence for the 2nd half of the season, because that's the title charge. Im not surprised that Jose's only playing him in favourable conditions like when the oppo is tired. We don't need him firing on all cylinders now, but he absolutely will have to come feb and march.
Whereas Rashford I think Jose know exactly what he's going to get from him. Whether his confidence is low or whatever, He's still going to give you a certain level of performance. But Martial needs that good start to the campaign. So I think its fine at the moment, if Martial's not starting games by Dec or Jan then there might be something going on.
Whereas Rashford I think Jose know exactly what he's going to get from him. Whether his confidence is low or whatever, He's still going to give you a certain level of performance. But Martial needs that good start to the campaign. So I think its fine at the moment, if Martial's not starting games by Dec or Jan then there might be something going on.
Stop making things up
Well put.
Well, fair enough if you disagree, but when I look at Rashford I feel like his game is a lot more settled or stable than Martial.
With Martial, I think he relies almost completely on beating his man. But with Rashford, he is more clever with his movement and he's more consistent with putting balls into the box (not saying his deliveries are better, just more consistent). And I think Rashford's defending is a lot more reliable than Martial's.
Every player is better with confidence, including Rashford. I just think that Martial needs it a bit more tbh.
He's a young talent, he'll always have ups and downs, he's years away from consistently playing at a high level, as his performances against Stoke, Everton and Southampton easily shows. The "certain level of performance" doesn't exist.
Excellent post.
Maybe I shouldnt' have used the words 'certain level of performance'. I myself, think that Rashford's not the most consistent attacking player. But I do think that when his attacking game isn't going well for him, the other jobs he does like defensive work, off the ball movement, drawing away defenders and keeping possession, he does more reliably than Martial. At the very least, I think Jose trusts him to perform these other
duties more than he trusts Martial.
I'm not saying to never ever start Martial. I'm just saying that I like what Jose's doing with Martial right now, which is slowly building up his confidence by creating good situations that makes it easier for him to show his ability. Maybe later in Dec or Jan we might see Martial starting every game, only Jose knows.
*Out of posts now
.I'll have to disagree with that despite agreeing with the rest of your posts. Too much rotation in the attack will kill any coherence between the players and that was one of our biggest problems and why we were so inconsistent these years, continuous chopping of players while the rivals have a fixed lineup in which players know their teammates so well and know exactly when and where they're moving. In order to build any coherence in our attack and start playing as a team not a bunch of individuals playing together we need to select certain starters and let them play together a lot so that they memorize their teammates movement much better.
Could you perhaps offer us a tactical breakdown, the attacking structure, of the matches against Leicester, Everton, Burton, Southampton, CSKA and Crystal Palace, as to why it suits the different players.
Sounds interesting
I think it's more that when Rashford is struggling with the ball, be it in taking men on or putting away and creating chances, he's still going to give you exceptional movement off the ball and track back and press constantly.
Martial is better than he's given credit for at tracking back, but he's not as good or relentless at pressing to win the ball back. I also feel that when he's having an off day with the ball, be it passing, dribbling, shooting, etc. his body language gets shitty and his effort levels drop more than Rashford's.
Whether or not that's the standard by which Mourinho should be choosing who starts is subjective, but it's fairly absurd that to build either one of these players we have posters knocking the other one down. One is 19 and the other is 21. Both are producing fairly consistently right now and both seem to be quite happy with how Mourinho is managing them. Until that changes this is a whole lot of worrying about a day of reckoning way out on the horizon that has yet to come.
And for the record I prefer Martial to Rashford, I just don't think Mourinho hates Martial or is an idiot for picking Rashford more frequently. Martial has also started both CL matches, so he could also view this as a horses for courses thing where he thinks Rashford is better suited to start PL matches and Martial for CL.
THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSING HIS PERFORMANCES ONLY. GET YOUR MARTIAL VS RASHFORD COMPARISONS OUT OF THIS. I'LL START THREADBANNING PEOPLE.
What you said is correct but we have 2 excellent youngsters so 4 players for 3 positions isn't much of a rotation isn't it?
I think the rotation we're doing currently is fairly well. By the Christmas I think the team will be evolved even more and coherence will be already built so that we can start tweaking in the lineup due to fixture list or injuries without disturbing the coherence already built.
As KDB and Pogba have taught us, sometimes leaving for regular football instead of 'fighting for your place' in a team where the manager does not value you can be the best career decision a player could make. All my years watching football you earn your place in the team by doing your best with what you're given, Martial didn't do this very well last season and my posts in his thread last season was very similar to the 'Martial FC' posts that pervade this thread. But over time I've just had to accept that he seems to be treated differently than our other attackers .This season the lad has taken every opportunity he's been given but it looks like his position as a sub behind Rashford is set in stone regardless of performance. What's particularly annoying is the fact that there's dozens of ways those 2 can be on the pitch together, or the fact that in the more tougher games Lingard is more likely come on ahead of him for some fecking reason. Anyone who thinks he is happy with this just deluding themselves, same way people were deluding themselves that there's any justifiable reason Fergie would play Rafael ahead of Pogba. 'He wasn't ready' was the generally accepted made up reason on here then, but few months later he was ready against much bigger teams in the CL.
A legend has spoken.
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