[Mr.Ridiculous__]

Work rate is not just a defensive term

I've repeated myself so many times in this thread

Someone in here, please explain to me why Rashford gets picked over Martial then, if not for the reasons I have explained. The idea that he gets picked because he is better defensively is fecking horse shit, because at 0-0, the teams we are playing are more defensive. We need to break teams down. Why on earth would you try to break a team down by playing 'defensive' players. Why on earth would we be breaking these teams down if Rashford is a 'defensive' player.

The utter and complete delusion in here is hilarious. People are trying to dumb this down to a matter of defensive work rate. Maybe Rashford is pretty fecking good going forward? Maybe he offers movement which Martial cannot? Honestly, someone explain this to me.

The same reason why Oscar was first choice over KDB. Which resulted in the far superior player joining their rivals.
Is it really that tough to comprehend?

 

[OL29]

Did Jose use those to justify Rashford's selection? Why should any fan justify Rashford's selection?

Problem if you Martial FC just can't see that we have 2 superb youngsters rather than just 1. It's not like Rashford isn't scoring and creating.

Radford and Martial both should start. Problem is few fans are so narrow minded and lose their shit whenever Rashford starts.

This phrase is unbelievably petty and doesn't really help your argument.

 

[roonster09]

This phrase is unbelievably petty and doesn't really help your argument.

It isn't petty and it isn't used as any support to my argument.

 

[Siorac]

It's very strange to keep one of your best players on the bench for 70 minutes. I don't buy 'he's better off playing 20 minutes than 90 minutes', that literally never works like that.

Yeah, exactly. Cristiano Ronaldo would be a great impact sub for sure - but it would be insane to keep him on the bench for that.

The whole 'Martial is better as a sub' thing is incredibly odd anyway and requires a considerable amount of mental gymnastics to actually believe it.
1) He was just fine as a starter in his first season. People can harp on about how he was the 'main man' and our 'outlet' and the 'team was built around him' - that is just rubbish. He regularly had to play against packed defences sitting very deep, because we were so slow in the buildup. He was just fine in breaking these down, in a team that was desperately short on creativity otherwise.
2) He has better close control and is thus superior at dribbling in tight spaces compared to Rashford. He generally has a more assured level of technique - again, that is something that actually makes him more suitable than Rashford against defences sitting very deep.

Mourinho doesn't like him very much, that is clear, he has to do more than other players. All managers have their style, have their favourites, have 'preferred types'. No need to justify that with copious amounts of bullshit.

 

[Sarni]

Yeah, exactly. Cristiano Ronaldo would be a great impact sub for sure - but it would be insane to keep him on the bench for that.

The whole 'Martial is better as a sub' thing is incredibly odd anyway and requires a considerable amount of mental gymnastics to actually believe it.
1) He was just fine as a starter in his first season. People can harp on about how he was the 'main man' and our 'outlet' and the 'team was built around him' - that is just rubbish. He regularly had to play against packed defences sitting very deep, because we were so slow in the buildup. He was just fine in breaking these down, in a team that was desperately short on creativity otherwise.
2) He has better close control and is thus superior at dribbling in tight spaces compared to Rashford. He generally has a more assured level of technique - again, that is something that actually makes him more suitable than Rashford against defences sitting very deep.

Mourinho doesn't like him very much, that is clear, he has to do more than other players. All managers have their style, have their favourites, have 'preferred types'. No need to justify that with copious amounts of bullshit.

Indeed. I would not read too much into his consistent exclusion from the first team and his status as a back up player, there is no deep analysis needed to understand why this is the way it is. He is a rotation player here and will fill in when first team players need to rest, it doesn't matter what he does because that is his status and Mourinho has made the decision based on his observations and preference. It's probably going to be fine for 2 or 3 more years but eventually Martial will get first team spot, it just will not be here. For now he's better off being here.

If Rashford gets injured Martial might get the chance to compete with Lingard for the spot.

 

[barmyarmy]

http://www.manutd.com/en/Fanzone/Ne...ker-anthony-martial-is-something-special.aspx

UNITED SUPPORTERS HAVE CAUGHT MARTIAL FEVER
The fervour surrounding Anthony Martial among the Manchester United faithful at the moment really is something special.

The Old Trafford public are usually pretty shrewd judges and there appears to be a growing belief that the sky is the limit for the fabulous Frenchman. In Moscow, his name was chanted during the UEFA Youth League tie ahead of the main event against CSKA. During the Champions League tie itself, there was a prolonged airing of his song during the half-time break.

On home turf, Marcus Rashford was selected on the left flank for the visit of Crystal Palace and, during the first real attack of the game, did brilliantly in beating Joel Ward to tee up Juan Mata's early opener. The England international followed it up with a driven free-kick for Marouane Fellaini to head home a third on the day before making way for Martial for the last 20 minutes or so.

There was a deserved ovation for Rashford but also a rousing reception for the substitute, who had already been cheered to the rafters every time he warmed up along the touchline. The fans appreciate both players are in top form and providing excitement every time they step on the field.

Sat in the Stretford End, there was a real buzz when Martial was brought on to torment an already well-beaten Palace side. It brought back memories of when Cristiano Ronaldo was on the bench during his first season at the club, with a sense of genuine expectation spreading through the stand. His first involvement was to trick Jason Puncheon with an outrageous nutmeg that bordered on being cruel and, every time he received the ball, the anticipation was palpable.

The 21-year-old's display against Burton Albion in the Carabao Cup had whetted the appetite as an individual performance to savour. This time around, he was only denied a sixth goal of the season by Wayne Hennessey's smart save, from Ander Herrera's fine through ball, but he managed to rack up another assist by setting up Romelu Lukaku's late fourth.

Martial has always been hugely popular, scoring a key goal against Liverpool on your debut is always going to endear yourself to the United fans. Yet the current buzz surrounding the forward has been ratcheted up to a whole new level. Jose Mourinho's men have been thrilling to watch but there is a sense that Martial is on the brink of taking his game to the next level.

With more challenges to come in October, starting at Anfield next time out, there will be the hope that the expectation and hype is justified. A recall for France should also be in his sights and, despite their embarrassment of riches, he could soon be impossible to overlook.

During the height of the silly season, during the transfer window, there were tabloid reports of Tottenham tabling a £25million bid for his services. Whether it was ever true or not it would surely be a criminal (and laughable) under-valuation of such a gifted young talent.

Fifty million down the drain? Fifty million's a bargain.

 

[yfoFC]

Yeah, that happens when you take the argument too literally. Pogba is only out because he's injured, and Fellaini has stepped up well in his spot. So of course Fellaini will, or should, be dropped when Pogba is fit again. Unless we're going into big games with a change of formation, or someone else needs resting/rotating.

That's just a fancy way of saying the argument doesn't hold much water and only used to put down some players while others get a pass. If it doesn't work for everyone then it should never be used in a discussion in the first place, simple.

 

[Ish]

That's just a fancy way of saying the argument doesn't hold much water and only used to put down some players while others get a pass. If it doesn't work for everyone then it should never be used in a discussion in the first place, simple.

Please show me where and which player I "put down" with that argument, whilst giving someone else a pass?

I was having a discussion with ivaldo about reasons maybe why Jose is not starting both Rashford and Martial. Contra to what you might assume, I'd actually prefer Martial starting over Rashford, but as long as the team is winning, I'm happy. And I can understand why Mourinho might be reluctant to change things up just yet, whilst his rotation of the 2 seem to be reaping rewards for the team.

And you did take it too literally, to try and prove your point because you tried to use a injured player as an example against the phrase.

 

[Scorpy]

Yeah, exactly. Cristiano Ronaldo would be a great impact sub for sure - but it would be insane to keep him on the bench for that.

The whole 'Martial is better as a sub' thing is incredibly odd anyway and requires a considerable amount of mental gymnastics to actually believe it.
1) He was just fine as a starter in his first season. People can harp on about how he was the 'main man' and our 'outlet' and the 'team was built around him' - that is just rubbish. He regularly had to play against packed defences sitting very deep, because we were so slow in the buildup. He was just fine in breaking these down, in a team that was desperately short on creativity otherwise.
2) He has better close control and is thus superior at dribbling in tight spaces compared to Rashford. He generally has a more assured level of technique - again, that is something that actually makes him more suitable than Rashford against defences sitting very deep.

Mourinho doesn't like him very much, that is clear, he has to do more than other players. All managers have their style, have their favourites, have 'preferred types'. No need to justify that with copious amounts of bullshit.

Spot on. There's some absolute nonsense being spouted in this thread.

 

[Adisa]

One of the reasons he's so popular is that for long periods, he was the only reason to watch us play under LVG.
He excites fans.

 

[P-Nut]

What do you mean by getting a pass? Being direct here means that they are very bold with their supply. A long ball a cross over the top which mean you have to battle out with the full back to win it. You have to stay shoulder to shoulder and eager to run in behind... to gain the edge. Lukaku, Rashford are better in this style. Martial prefers the ball at his feet to ulitize his dribbling. It's harder for Martial when the other team keep their shape and had man tightly mark Martial.

Your previous point is that to help Martial to less getting double teamed, we need to pass around more and quick, which is not suitable for our team compact at the moment. It's similar to LVG approach where the system was built to help giving Martial more chance to run 1 on 1 against a defender. We didn't reach the state when we move the ball quickly enough, may it be the personnel or simply LVG is not that good at teaching. Point is this team despite at time have lot of possession is not built on that philosophy so they ain't that comfortable to with heavy possession. They prefer going more direct having the front man battle it out with opposition defenders

I am just trying to explain my take on the matter than saying who is right or wrong. It's opinion game so I respect different opinion. I am not fussed over who start either. I am not supporting individual player. Cheers.

What I meant by getting a pass was... You claimed that Martial needs to be less direct, then stated that Mkhi, Pogba, Lukaku etc were all direct so we needed something different from Rashford. I meant why is it OK for those players to be the direct ones.

Also my previous point wasn't about passing it around more to get the best out of Martial, it was saying that due to Martial being double teamed, there must be space somewhere else on the pitch as he has 2 markers meaning someone else must have none.

 

[Joga Bonito]

http://www.manutd.com/en/Fanzone/Ne...ker-anthony-martial-is-something-special.aspx

UNITED SUPPORTERS HAVE CAUGHT MARTIAL FEVER
The fervour surrounding Anthony Martial among the Manchester United faithful at the moment really is something special.

The Old Trafford public are usually pretty shrewd judges and there appears to be a growing belief that the sky is the limit for the fabulous Frenchman. In Moscow, his name was chanted during the UEFA Youth League tie ahead of the main event against CSKA. During the Champions League tie itself, there was a prolonged airing of his song during the half-time break.

On home turf, Marcus Rashford was selected on the left flank for the visit of Crystal Palace and, during the first real attack of the game, did brilliantly in beating Joel Ward to tee up Juan Mata's early opener. The England international followed it up with a driven free-kick for Marouane Fellaini to head home a third on the day before making way for Martial for the last 20 minutes or so.

There was a deserved ovation for Rashford but also a rousing reception for the substitute, who had already been cheered to the rafters every time he warmed up along the touchline. The fans appreciate both players are in top form and providing excitement every time they step on the field.

Sat in the Stretford End, there was a real buzz when Martial was brought on to torment an already well-beaten Palace side. It brought back memories of when Cristiano Ronaldo was on the bench during his first season at the club, with a sense of genuine expectation spreading through the stand. His first involvement was to trick Jason Puncheon with an outrageous nutmeg that bordered on being cruel and, every time he received the ball, the anticipation was palpable.

The 21-year-old's display against Burton Albion in the Carabao Cup had whetted the appetite as an individual performance to savour. This time around, he was only denied a sixth goal of the season by Wayne Hennessey's smart save, from Ander Herrera's fine through ball, but he managed to rack up another assist by setting up Romelu Lukaku's late fourth.

Martial has always been hugely popular, scoring a key goal against Liverpool on your debut is always going to endear yourself to the United fans. Yet the current buzz surrounding the forward has been ratcheted up to a whole new level. Jose Mourinho's men have been thrilling to watch but there is a sense that Martial is on the brink of taking his game to the next level.

With more challenges to come in October, starting at Anfield next time out, there will be the hope that the expectation and hype is justified. A recall for France should also be in his sights and, despite their embarrassment of riches, he could soon be impossible to overlook.

During the height of the silly season, during the transfer window, there were tabloid reports of Tottenham tabling a £25million bid for his services. Whether it was ever true or not it would surely be a criminal (and laughable) under-valuation of such a gifted young talent.

Fifty million down the drain? Fifty million's a bargain.

Think it was Townsend wasn't it? Or did he nutmeg Puncheon too?

 

[yfoFC]

Please show me where and which player I "put down" with that argument, whilst giving someone else a pass?

I was having a discussion with ivaldo about reasons maybe why Jose is not starting both Rashford and Martial. Contra to what you might assume, I'd actually prefer Martial starting over Rashford, but as long as the team is winning, I'm happy. And I can understand why Mourinho might be reluctant to change things up just yet, whilst his rotation of the 2 seem to be reaping rewards for the team.

And you did take it too literally, to try and prove your point because you tried to use a injured player as an example against the phrase.

Oboy, I get where you're coming from and maybe I'm taking it too literal but the way I see it, it boils down to "the team is performing so no need to change" and currently we are winning with fellani and without pogba

Anyways, I guess it's a subjective area and a point of view that I can't relate to but everyone is entitled to their opinions and I can respect that even if I don't agree with it

 

[Ish]

Oboy, I get where you're coming from and maybe I'm taking it too literal but the way I see it, it boils down to "the team is performing so no need to change" and currently we are winning with fellani and without pogba

Anyways, I guess it's a subjective area and a point of view that I can't relate to but everyone is entitled to their opinions and I can respect that even if I don't agree with it

No harm, no foul bud. It's what these boards are for anyway.

For the record, I want martial to get more starts. But I also think it should be mata who's sacrificed.

Guess we'll see how the season develops.

 

[kouroux]

And therein lies the rub. He has some of the best stats for an attacker in the league but finds himself on the outside looking in. It's not sustainable long term.

It's not even about him vs Rashford. Rashford's doing very well also. They are actually the only two being rotated, Mkhi and Mata seem to have their places nailed and are immune to rotation.

It is fecking weird but it seems to be working and weirdly Martial seems happier than ever before so mayb we are making too much of it ?

 

[Womp]

It is fecking weird but it seems to be working and weirdly Martial seems happier than ever before so mayb we are making too much of it ?

We absolutely are. I want them both to start, but with 90% of teams in the league parking the bus against us, the extra creativity, passing ability and movement (who Mata is the best in the team at) provides really helps breaking them down. Especially as Mkhi can either be brilliant or largely underwhelming. Not to add, Mourinho spoke to Martial about his role this season and Martial seemed more than happy with it. He's smiling more than I've ever seen him.

I'd like to see him get a few more starts as the season goes on obviously, rotating with Rashford but it's still relatively early days, once we are playing 2-3 games a week consistently I'm sure we will see much more of him.

The whole team are high on confidence and seem happy. They all look like good mates, Jose looks happy and we are winning games and are thoroughly in the title challenge. Only people who are negative are the fans.

 

[MadMike]

It is fecking weird but it seems to be working and weirdly Martial seems happier than ever before so mayb we are making too much of it ?

Yeah but he could be happier because his personal life is getting better or because he's mates with most people at the club or things are working out for him on the pitch. From a professional standpoint his current situation is better than last year undoubtedly, but it's a stepping stone, it won't be forever good for him. I mean which young player doesn't want to be playing regularly and to get called up in his national team for a world cup?

I'm not saying it's a problem now necessarily, but if by the end of the season the situation doesn't change there will be questions. Especially if (hopefully) he keeps performing like that.

 

[MadMike]

We absolutely are. I want them both to start, but with 90% of teams in the league parking the bus against us, the extra creativity, passing ability and movement (who Mata is the best in the team at) provides really helps breaking them down. Especially as Mkhi can either be brilliant or largely underwhelming. Not to add, Mourinho spoke to Martial about his role this season and Martial seemed more than happy with it. He's smiling more than I've ever seen him.

I'd like to see him get a few more starts as the season goes on obviously, rotating with Rashford but it's still relatively early days, once we are playing 2-3 games a week consistently I'm sure we will see much more of him.

The whole team are high on confidence and seem happy. They all look like good mates, Jose looks happy and we are winning games and are thoroughly in the title challenge. Only people who are negative are the fans.

I actually disagree with your point.

Firstly because having watched Martial this season, he offers excellent movement up front. I can accept the fact that, while he does his defensive shift, he doesn't bust a gut to try to win a ball or chase down a full-back like Rashford does. But the "Martial has no good movement" doesn't hold up to scrutiny this season. Not when I see his movement in the goals, assists and chances he's participated in. And they are loads.

Secondly, If Mkhi is underwhelming maybe he can rotate with Mkhi and we bring Mata centrally. I find it hard to reject the notion that Rashford and Martial could work out, without having seen it first. I'm not doubting the usefulness of Mata and Mkhi, I'm just saying that Martial could be better but it's not been tried. Yet people are rejecting it out of hand.

Finally, we can talk about Mata all day but and how helpful he is to unlock defences, but the lad has had 1 goal and 0 assists in 9 games. Martial has had 5 goals and and 6 assists in nearly half the minutes. Mata had 6 assists in all of last season, across all competitions. There comes a point where preconceptions based on historic evidence need to be re-evaluated as the situation changes. I don't dislike Mata at all by the way, I am a fan. In the past he has been great, a lethal finisher for us. But his output has steadily declined since his Chelsea peak and on the other hand we have a young talent on a hot streak. Without suggesting benching Mata permanently, the least we can do is include him in the rotation every now and then and see how it pans out.

 

[Womp]

I actually disagree with your point.

Firstly because having watched Martial this season, he offers excellent movement up front. I can accept the fact that, while he does his defensive shift, he doesn't bust a gut to try to win a ball or chase down a full-back like Rashford does. But the "Martial has no good movement" doesn't hold up to scrutiny this season. Not when I see his movement in the goals, assists and chances he's participated in. And they are loads.

Secondly, If Mkhi is underwhelming maybe he can rotate with Mkhi and we bring Mata centrally. I find it hard to reject the notion that Rashford and Martial could work out, without having seen it first. I'm not doubting the usefulness of Mata and Mkhi, I'm just saying that Martial could be better but it's not been tried. Yet people are rejecting it out of hand.

Finally, we can talk about Mata all day but and how helpful he is to unlock defences, but the lad has had 1 goal and 0 assists in 9 games. Martial has had 5 goals and and 6 assists in nearly half the minutes. Mata had 6 assists in all of last season, across all competitions. There comes a point where preconceptions based on historic evidence need to be re-evaluated as the situation changes. I don't dislike Mata at all by the way, I am a fan. In the past he has been great, a lethal finisher for us. But his output has steadily declined since his Chelsea peak and on the other hand we have a young talent on a hot streak. Without suggesting benching Mata permanently, the least we can do is include him in the rotation every now and then and see how it pans out.

He offers excellent movement on the ball. To suggest his movement off the ball is even close to Mata, who is superior to everyone else in the squad in that aspect isn't even close to correct. Mata's influence on the team shouldn't be judged with goals and assist, the same way Matic shouldn't. Players like Mata make us better. His ability to play in the channels, his link-up play, his movement etc. are all very underrated and under-appreciated aspects of his game. Taking him out of the team in favour of one of Rashford or Martial might work, the same way it might not. Shoe-horning young, inexperienced players into a position both aren't comfortable in just for the sake of it, especially when every single game is of the up-most importance if we want to challenge for the title is a risk that a manager like Jose won't feel comfortable taking. Not this early in the season anyway. We're at the stage of the season where consistency is key. Not many managers will change their line-ups too often this early. Once we get further into the season and see more games a week, that's when the opportunity for testing and experimenting comes in. Those are the times we'd probably see Rashford and Martial together. We are neck to neck with City, we need to maintain the pressure.

I agree on your point about Mkhitryan, he's been underwhelming more often than not this season, yet by your logic he should still be in the team as he's getting assists. I do believe he will get dropped soon if his performances don't improve, most likely in favour of one of Rashford or Martial.

There's more to goals and assists. Lukaku isn't scoring much more than Ibra, yet his movement in the final third has improved our attack. Matic isn't scoring or assisting more than Herrera was, yet his forward passing and ability to win the ball back has improved our attack. Goals and assists don't document the play or the sequences prior to the goal or final ball. If Messi scored half the goals he does, he'd still be one of the two greatest players on the planet, due to the other qualities he provides the team. Now I'm not saying Mata is anywhere near as good as Messi, but you get the point.

Jose Mourinho doesn't give a shit about any of the players at Manchester United, he cares about winning titles. He will always prioritise winning games and titles over any player in the squad. That being a moot point anyway, as we are winning games, we are in the title race and all the players look the happiest they have been in years.

Like I said - there's a time for rotating some of your most reliable and consistent players, (who Mata is, he might not be superb every game, but he's never bad) this early in the season is not the time, not for me anyway.

 

[breakout67]

I've learnt from this thread that Martial has no weaknesses in his game; he is the real life manifestation of a maxed out player on a video game.

When he dribbles over and over again without any end product he is the best player on the pitch and an eventual Balon'dor winner, while Lingard and Rashford are shite for doing the same. When he does well in a game he deserves a run of games regardless of other players performances, or the balance of the team.

CL games also don't count as starts, and coming off the bench doesnt change your performance either. Martial would be on 20 goals and assists already if he was starting every game because thats how football works. And of course, if only Mourinho listened to the people on here we would be top of the league instead of 2nd behind city . The ultimate pragmatist manager has the 2nd coming of Pele on the bench and he is mis-managing him .

 

[kouroux]

Yeah but he could be happier because his personal life is getting better or because he's mates with most people at the club or things are working out for him on the pitch. From a professional standpoint his current situation is better than last year undoubtedly, but it's a stepping stone, it won't be forever good for him. I mean which young player doesn't want to be playing regularly and to get called up in his national team for a world cup?

I'm not saying it's a problem now necessarily, but if by the end of the season the situation doesn't change there will be questions. Especially if (hopefully) he keeps performing like that.

I wouldn't speculate about makes him happy but I do realize that this situation isn't ideal in the long term for either Rashford and Martial

 

[jungledrums]

I've learnt from this thread that Martial has no weaknesses in his game; he is the real life manifestation of a maxed out player on a video game.

When he dribbles over and over again without any end product he is the best player on the pitch and an eventual Balon'dor winner, while Lingard and Rashford are shite for doing the same. When he does well in a game he deserves a run of games regardless of other players performances, or the balance of the team.

CL games also don't count as starts, and coming off the bench doesnt change your performance either. Martial would be on 20 goals and assists already if he was starting every game because thats how football works. And of course, if only Mourinho listened to the people on here we would be top of the league instead of 2nd behind city . The ultimate pragmatist manager has the 2nd coming of Pele on the bench and he is mis-managing him .

What a ridiculous post. I get that you're exaggerating for the sake of 'humour', but it's still nonsense. I see a lot of posters speaking positively of Martial's development this season, and posting of desire to see him start. What is wrong with that?

Not that there's any point refuting anything you've said, but Martial is our most productive player per minute in the squad (so far this season). Even last season, during his form slump, he produced 8 goals and 8 assists. Let's not forget his first season with us, either...
Aside from thinly veiled sarcasm, what point are you actually trying to make?

 

[pocco]

I've learnt from this thread that Martial has no weaknesses in his game; he is the real life manifestation of a maxed out player on a video game.

When he dribbles over and over again without any end product he is the best player on the pitch and an eventual Balon'dor winner, while Lingard and Rashford are shite for doing the same. When he does well in a game he deserves a run of games regardless of other players performances, or the balance of the team.

CL games also don't count as starts, and coming off the bench doesnt change your performance either. Martial would be on 20 goals and assists already if he was starting every game because thats how football works. And of course, if only Mourinho listened to the people on here we would be top of the league instead of 2nd behind city . The ultimate pragmatist manager has the 2nd coming of Pele on the bench and he is mis-managing him .

Most of these feckers probably didn't give Martial a second thought when we were linked to Neymar.

 

[Treble]

It's fairly simple about Martial's future at the club. If come May he is still only a (super) sub and doesn't travel to Russia with France, he will be seriously worried about his career. Not even making the squad for France because of younger than him players would feel really bad. Conversely, if makes the squad, he'll be happy.

 

[Womp]

It's fairly simple about Martial's future at the club. If come May he is still only a (super) sub and doesn't travel to Russia with France, he will be seriously worried about his career. Not even making the squad for France because of younger than him players would feel really bad. Conversely, if makes the squad, he'll be happy.

Don't think him making the France squad has much to do with his performances here tbh. If so, he would have been called up to the recent squad. Deschamps just doesn't seem to rate/prefer him.

 

[kouroux]

Don't think him making the France squad has much to do with his performances here tbh. If so, he would have been called up to the recent squad. Deschamps just doesn't seem to rate/prefer him.

He does, he's just very stubborn. Said that Martial won't be a sub for him because he's better than that or all his main attacking players are available. Weird logic but it is what it is.

 

[Mr PG]

From ESPN
http://www.espnfc.com/club/manchest...-match-eden-hazard--now-hes-happy-expect-more

There is, however, a feeling at Old Trafford that those qualities are still underrated. Those who watch him train at Carrington every day will tell you he is better running at pace with the ball at his feet than Rashford. He is a better finisher, too.

Eden Hazard, whom Mourinho knows well from their time together at Stamford Bridge, is considered one of the best players in the world, one of those occupying that imaginary level between everyone else and Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo.

Yet, in the last three seasons, Hazard has scored 20 goals and recorded eight assists in 71 Premier League appearances. In the same time, Martial has scored 18 goals and recorded 12 assists in 62 appearances.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

From ESPN
http://www.espnfc.com/club/manchest...-match-eden-hazard--now-hes-happy-expect-more

There is, however, a feeling at Old Trafford that those qualities are still underrated. Those who watch him train at Carrington every day will tell you he is better running at pace with the ball at his feet than Rashford. He is a better finisher, too.

That's very obvious to us also.

 

[prtk0811]

With no surprize martial best under mourinho came under a 343 with no defensive duties.

 

[Adisa]

That's very obvious to us also.

I thought that part was funny. Like it was a secrete in the squad.

 

[redIndianDevil]

I think the entire Martial v Rashford debate is pretty much pointless at this time coz Mourinho seems fixed that Rashford is a safer and better bet than Martial especially for the PL.

I'd rather we replaced Miki with Martial in the middle and let Rashford and Mata in the flanks. Miki has been horrendous in the last two matches, against Palace he didn't make one good pass and lost possession countless number of times. Martial could play off Lukaku through the middle. Let Rashford and Valencia stretch the opposition defence thin and let Lukaku and Martial tear it up through the middle. Miki's passing isn't all that good, yes he has a good eye for a brilliant pass but overtime Martial could also learn that I think. Additional advantage is that we would have two excellent finishers playing in the middle, Miki's shooting and finishing is also very bad.

There are some suggestions in this thread that Mata should be the one who should be replaced because he doesn't have numbers, that would be foolish thing to do IMO, a front three of Martial, Rashford and Miki will lose possession a lot of times and would put pressure on our midfield and defence, Mata is good at the link up play and his passing is very good, he is also good at scoring a decent number of goals, he may have had a scratchy start so far, but he took his shot brilliantly against Palace, he has much to offer.

 

[Rossa]

Mods @Raoul : could we please have a Rashford vs Martial thread like we do with Messi and Ronaldo? The Martial and Rashford threads are just about comparing the two players by now.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Mods @Raoul : could we please have a Rashford vs Martial thread like we do with Messi and Ronaldo? The Martial and Rashford threads are just about comparing the two players by now.

We already have such a thread. The intriguing battle.

 

[breakout67]

What a ridiculous post. I get that you're exaggerating for the sake of 'humour', but it's still nonsense. I see a lot of posters speaking positively of Martial's development this season, and posting of desire to see him start. What is wrong with that?

Not that there's any point refuting anything you've said, but Martial is our most productive player per minute in the squad (so far this season). Even last season, during his form slump, he produced 8 goals and 8 assists. Let's not forget his first season with us, either...
Aside from thinly veiled sarcasm, what point are you actually trying to make?

There is an endless amount of evidence that some posters in this thread have developed a fetish for Martial, bordering on worship. Similar to how certain posters have a hatred for Fellaini that they refuse to acknowledge his contribution; there are certain posters that refuse to acknowledge any thing that doesn't paint Martial in their twisted hyperbolic version of reality.

Its also extremely arrogant (and probably from a point of idiocy) to think that a top manager like Mourinho (a pragmatist manager) would play Rashford just because he's english, or he wouldnt play Martial because he doesn't like him; these type of justifications only come about because of their emotional investment in Martial.

Everytime someone talks about tactical considerations for playing Martial the same posters come in to deflect or play devils advocate just so they can keep their cognitive dissonance in check. There is no consideration for the system and requirements of the left winger for the balance of the team; just play Martial and everything will be ok.

Tactical analysis of the 4-2-3-1, the attacking structure of previous Mourinho teams, the qualities of Martial based on manager's comments and stats. All these things and more are irrelevant because Martial must play or he'll leave and win the Balon'dor somewhere else.

If the team is winning and Martial leaves because he isnt getting game time, then good riddance. However, it looks like Martial is hungry and willing to fight for his place. No player is bigger than the club; the team winning always comes first.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

There is an endless amount of evidence that some posters in this thread have developed a fetish for Martial, bordering on worship. Similar to how certain posters have a hatred for Fellaini that they refuse to acknowledge his contribution; there are certain posters that refuse to acknowledge any thing that doesn't paint Martial in their twisted hyperbolic version of reality.

Its also extremely arrogant (and probably from a point of idiocy) to think that a top manager like Mourinho (a pragmatist manager) would play Rashford just because he's english, or he wouldnt play Martial because he doesn't like him; these type of justifications only come about because of their emotional investment in Martial.

Everytime someone talks about tactical considerations for playing Martial the same posters come in to deflect or play devils advocate just so they can keep their cognitive dissonance in check. There is no consideration for the system and requirements of the left winger for the balance of the team; just play Martial and everything will be ok.

Tactical analysis of the 4-2-3-1, the attacking structure of previous Mourinho teams, the qualities of Martial based on manager's comments and stats. All these things and more are irrelevant because Martial must play or he'll leave and win the Balon'dor somewhere else.

If the team is winning and Martial leaves because he isnt getting game time, then good riddance. However, it looks like Martial is hungry and willing to fight for his place. No player is bigger than the club; the team winning always comes first.

Good post.

 

[Tomuś]

It's only here on the Caf and Phil Neville that Rashford get ridiculously overrated and likened to talent obviously far superior than him.

I noticed Rashford status increase by him being compared to superior talent than him. At first it just sounds silly then after it get brought over and over it start becoming a Caf truth.

The notion of comparing Rashford to Martial itself is silly due to the mere fact that Martial is obviously a far more talented player, that much is obvious to anyone who is being objective in regard to those two. Heck outside the Caf and Phil Neville you'd be hard pressed seeing anyone even entertaining such ideas.

Comparisons with Martial have been made and brought up many times on the Caf that some have started to believe they might actually be close and a case can be made for Rashford.

I'm sorry but this is one pile of self-righteous rubbish. Don't know what is worse - you claiming that 'one would be hard pressed seeing...' (which is absurd) or the pretentious manner in which you speak about it.

 

[Treble]

I do not have a preference towards Rashford or Martial but I tend to agree with Jose that Rashford is more reliable in difficult games.

Martial's stats this season are great but how many of his goals/assists came when United didn't have a lead already? Genuine question.

 

[Rossa]

We already have such a thread. The intriguing battle.

So why not keep that discussion there? It's annoying that whenever a post is made it is instantly replied to with comments on the other player.

 

[MadMike]

I do not have a preference towards Rashford or Martial but I tend to agree with Jose that Rashford is more reliable in difficult games.

Martial's stats this season are great but how many of his goals/assists came when United didn't have a lead already? Genuine question.

Kind of a stupid question when he's on the bench for most games and comes on as a sub towards the end, don't you think?

He's had 1 start in the league (against Leicester) 2 in the CL and 1 in the cup. In 4 starts he's got 2 goals and 4 assists. All good performances too.

 

[Ish]

There is an endless amount of evidence that some posters in this thread have developed a fetish for Martial, bordering on worship. Similar to how certain posters have a hatred for Fellaini that they refuse to acknowledge his contribution; there are certain posters that refuse to acknowledge any thing that doesn't paint Martial in their twisted hyperbolic version of reality.

Its also extremely arrogant (and probably from a point of idiocy) to think that a top manager like Mourinho (a pragmatist manager) would play Rashford just because he's english, or he wouldnt play Martial because he doesn't like him; these type of justifications only come about because of their emotional investment in Martial.

Everytime someone talks about tactical considerations for playing Martial the same posters come in to deflect or play devils advocate just so they can keep their cognitive dissonance in check. There is no consideration for the system and requirements of the left winger for the balance of the team; just play Martial and everything will be ok.

Tactical analysis of the 4-2-3-1, the attacking structure of previous Mourinho teams, the qualities of Martial based on manager's comments and stats. All these things and more are irrelevant because Martial must play or he'll leave and win the Balon'dor somewhere else.

If the team is winning and Martial leaves because he isnt getting game time, then good riddance. However, it looks like Martial is hungry and willing to fight for his place. No player is bigger than the club; the team winning always comes first.

I was going to quote that first post #4575 of yours and say you're exaggerating, if only for jest/dramatic affect, but this post I quoted above is good. And I'm one of those who has a slight preference for Martial > Rashford - if only marginal.

As much as I'd prefer Martial starting (hell, both Rashford and Martial should be starting based on their early season form), as long as we're winning and the morale/spirit is excellent, no complaints from me. Team > individual. But if they both keep this up, I'd be more worried about my starting place if I was Mata.

And as is mentioned often enough, he'll get his game time. The season is but an infant.