[Litch]

Find it difficult to believe Martial is being dropped for footballing reasons. It is a 'mentality' issue. IMO Mourinho wants the lad to be more humble and not think he has already made it and Martial thinks he should be treated like a star (or is being fed stuff by his agents about how he should have a higher status in the side after his exploits last year). There is also the subplot, which no one mentions but I am sure Martial has spoken about how his long term desire is to be a 9 and how his idol is Ronaldo.. this conversion into a left wing forward, I am sure.. isn't something he is super happy with either.

Mourinho has a poor track record in this regard, not in the sense he is always wrong in isolating a young player and selling them.. (only KDB was a mistake) but that he doesn't quite master the art of challenging a young player but also knowing when to bring them back into the fold and make them feel loved too. Right now Martial probably just thinks the guy is a cnut and if his mindset is like that, the chances of him being receptive to what Jose has to say is going to be lower.

For the club's sake, we need them both to get on because based on that first 20 minutes vs Liverpool, forget Pogba or Zlatan.. Martial is the biggest big match talent we have at this club when he is on form and hungry, and we'd be idiots to destroy his confidence and sell him on. Kid's got lots of talent, and we should be getting that out of him.

There's been other big talents here but to succeed they always have the Man Utd mentality first as without it doesn't matter about your ability. None of us really know what's happening but for certain something isn't right. Might be controversial but I think this lad has the belief he should be treated better than he is. Again I feel this is a case of too much money and profile too soon. The lads profile couldn't be any different than when he signed both personally and professionally. His private life should be his own but it's unrealistic to suggest they don't impact on each other. Just saying the lad arrived with a young partner and child. Within 12 months of being here, that ends and has model girlfriend. Yep it's a moralistic view but this lad needs grounding and a reminder that he's achieved nothing here as yet IMO and I think Jose is testing him to see if he can be.

Don't be surprised if Martial isn't here in the summer.....

 

[Jazz]

He actually started 15 and came off the bench 14 times in his first year. Even with special talents, you really have to phase them into the squad. Last year's Martial was an outlier that was a ridiculous risk to take for LVG. He could've flopped and had his psyche damaged.

That's true, but he didn't flop. He showed what he can do. The thing for us is to get him to move on, that's all I want to see. Alienating him won't help us and we will regret losing him. The club really needs to ensure we don't lose a young talented player.

 

[Slavkov]

Really no need for you to be condescending. If you had actually read my comment you'd see that i suggested that "you not seeing things from their angle" is more probable.

If you can't see what's contradictory in those past comments of mine than I'm afraid there's not much i can do. I have already pointed all out and explained it.

Martial haven't played 30 games but 21 as @Damian has pointed out and he had great impact in game like vs Stoke, Middlesbrough, Reading, West Ham he was also very good against Arsenal, Liverpool etc.

Mind you the same manager that took Gignac to EURO instead of Lacazete and also is playing Pogba as right holding MF, is the one that shunned Martial.

Again please tell me which players did more in LW position or will you just keep ignoring it?

I still cannot see the contradiction, I guess my English is not as good, for which I am sorry...

I told you 55 times that Rashford, Mata, Miki, and Lingard have contributed more playing on both flanks.

Martial was tragic against the scousers and average at best against Arsenal, he did not score the equalizer against Stoke but the first goal of the game in the far corner, people who use statistics like you should watch the games and remember them as well

 

[Raees]

There's been other big talents here but to succeed they always have the Man Utd mentality first as without it doesn't matter your ability. None of us really know what's happening but for certain something isn't right. Might be controversial but I think this lad has the belief he should be treated better than he is. Again I feel this is a case of too much money and profile too soon. The lads profile couldn't be any different than when he signed both personally and professionally. His private life should be his own but it's unrealistic to suggest they don't impact on each other. Just saying the lad arrived with a young partner and child. Within 12 months of being here, that ends and has model girlfriend. Yep it's a moralistic view but this lad needs grounding IMO and I think Jose is testing him to see if he can be.

Don't be surprised if Martial isn't here in the summer.....

Agree that if it is a case of Martial not being able to knuckle down, then yes he will not be here long term. Would be a huge shame though if Mourinho can't weave his magic and get the lad playing for him.

 

[Dr Pavel]

He actually started 15 and came off the bench 14 times in his first year. Even with special talents, you really have to phase them into the squad. Last year's Martial was an outlier that was a ridiculous risk to take for LVG. He could've flopped and had his psyche damaged.

Lol but he didn't flop. In fact he is flopping right now because he isn't playing.

Alex Ferguson was clearly mistaken, he should've let Ronaldo stay in Portugal for a few more years, what if he came to United and flop.

 

[Damien]

You even did not watch the game against Stoke I guess. Allen scored the equalizer, Tony scored the fi

Okay, I was wrong about him "scoring the equaliser" but he still had an impact and put us ahead in the game. I did watch it so less of the snidey condescending remarks to everyone please. I just remembered things a bit wrong.

 

[Dr Pavel]

I agree. By Martial's own admission, he got annoyed when LVG kept going through his mistakes with him, but he said LVG told him he wants him to be 'the best' or words to that effect. He also said that he knew LVG only shouted at him because he wanted him to be better. Now from those utterings, it sounds to be me that Martial had complete belief that LVG wanted what was best for him. I actually think Jose should try this with him as he will respond.
Playing mind games (or whatever Jose is doing) won't work with the kid I don't think.

Can you post the story please?

 

[Fracture90]

Don't be surprised if Martial isn't here in the summer.....

This is exactly what's bothering all of us because we know wherever he goes, if treated right he'll be a world beater.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

That's true, but he didn't flop. He showed what he can do. The thing for us is to get him to move on, that's all I want to see. Alienating him won't help us and we will regret losing him. The club really needs to ensure we don't lose a young talented player.

He's a young and fantastic talent but the club should not be held hostage by anyone, especially someone who hasn't proven anything yet here. Again, I really like him but the onus is on him to earn his place. Just because he had his way last year with LVG's 'system' (if you can even call it that), doesn't mean it'll always be like that. With SAF gone, we're going to have new managers every 4-6 years - possibly shorter - now, just like all the other big clubs. He can't just mope when things aren't going his way.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

Lol but he didn't flop. In fact he is flopping right now because he isn't playing.

Alex Ferguson was clearly mistaken, he should've let Ronaldo stay in Portugal for a few more years, what if he came to United and flop.

What part of gradually phase in do you not understand?

He is flopping because, so far, he's only proven to be effective when the entire team is geared to play to his strengths.

 

[Amar__]

Who do you seriously see replacing Pogba?

Mkhi's been our best outfield player after Zlatan and Valencia since he came back from the grave - a few off games and he's already worse than a Martial who's been wank all season?

Mkhi's far from special ever since the injury, he has just one assist and zero goals in last 5 starts, and yet continues to start games, while Martial is in better form lately.

I myself disagree with Jose's call on this, but I'm guessing he prefers Rooney's workrate over Martial's laissez faire attitude about defense

Bringing Rooney two times in a row in attacking positions while we are chasing games because he prefers Rooney defensively workrate over Martial? Seems logic!

He was decent at best against Liverpool, no need to exaggerate. Oh, and Boro and Reading aren't exactly world beaters.

So he is at fault because he didn't play against better teams? Why didn't our other players play better than him in these games then?

Lately meaning one month? Mkhi's been more consistent (again, Martial hasn't even been average this year), plus his peaks are higher considering he's in his prime. Not sure why the Martial United brigade think we want him to feck off already; he's a kid, there was always bound to be some growing pains.

You do realise one month is literally half of Mkhi's carrer here. Martial is also involved in far more goals, and that's exactly what we lack.

Can you explain again why Martial deserved to be dropped yesterday and not try to answer just some unimportant things I mentioned?

 

[MounchesterUtd]

The bottler thing was a joke. I don't imagine that Ibrahimovic when he signed for Barcelona could think he would be fecked off out of the club after 1 year. It shows that sometimes too many cooks can ruin it. It would be great if players didn't have ego and self interest, but they do. And Ibra has a huge one. If bringing a 35 year old in means Martial gets sideline then I would rather not. It's not like we are killing it with Ibra in in the team either.

We're not killing it, not because of Ibra but because no one aside from Ibra is giving us any goals consistently. Ibra is dragging us up, not the other way around. I shudder to think where we'll be in the table if we used Martial as the focal point of our attack.

 

[Fracture90]

I still cannot see the contradiction, I guess my English is not as good, for which I am sorry...

I told you 55 times that Rashford, Mata, Miki, and Lingard have contributed more playing on both flanks.

Martial was tragic against the scousers and average at best against Arsenal, he did not score the equalizer against Stoke but the first goal of the game in the far corner, people who use statistics like you should watch the games and remember them as well

You see that highlighted part is what tells a lot. When you lack any evidence of facts to support your claims you resort to attacking the poster himself.

Same was the way you entered this thread with guns blazing, calling people whiners, underestimating everyone's opionion and excluding everyone. At one point you started arguing with yourself.

Mata haven't played LW, Mikhi played half of one game good on LW and that was against Feyenoord, Lingard haven't had a single good performance on LW, whilst Rashford had few good cameos and few terrible ones.

Against both Liverpool and Arsenal he was our best player on the pitch and the only reason he was subbed is because Mourinho never subs Zlatan and he needs to bring Rashford in. And we all know Rashford can't play RW.

Also quote me the part where I've said that he had scored an equaliser vs Stoke?

 

[Jazz]

Can you post the story please?

This one he's talking about Louis shouting at him but knowing he wants him to do well or whatever:
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...tial-says-he-laughs-when-louis-van-gaal-yells

Here they talk about the interview with L Equipe
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...Jose-Mourinho-Premier-League-France-Euro-2016
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...s/manchester-united-martial-van-gaal-11747323

 

[Litch]

Agree that if it is a case of Martial not being able to knuckle down, then yes he will not be here long term. Would be a huge shame though if Mourinho can't weave his magic and get the lad playing for him.

I agree but I think Jose is limited in working with young players. I don't think it's the ability to bring their game on, it's that he's not the patience to wait for them to develop emotionally. He expects boys to have an adult mentality and that you earn the right to have an opinion. He expects men to be men and not hide behind others. Jose's failings has always been not bowing down to players demands irrespective of their standing. He will cut his nose off to spoil his face every single time....

Honestly don't think he's a Jose type player and he's not been afraid to let other big young talents go who then developed 'a set' elsewhere lol

 

[Jazz]

He's a young and fantastic talent but the club should not be held hostage by anyone, especially someone who hasn't proven anything yet here. Again, I really like him but the onus is on him to earn his place. Just because he had his way last year with LVG's 'system' (if you can even call it that), doesn't mean it'll always be like that. With SAF gone, we're going to have new managers every 4-6 years - possibly shorter - now, just like all the other big clubs. He can't just mope when things aren't going his way.

It's not a system with the kid. You can't ignore his talent. SAF would have made allowances for someone with talent. It's not like Martial is acting up like Ravel was. Of course I want him to have manners, knuckle down and work hard, but I don't get the impression this is the problem with him.
If I'm honest, my feeling is he doesn't trust Mourinho for whatever reason.

 

[Jazz]

I agree but I think Jose is limited in working with young players. I don't think it's the ability to bring their game on, it's that he's not the patience to wait for them to develop emotionally. He expects boys to have an adult mentality and that you earn the right to have an opinion. He expects men to be men and not hide behind others. Honestly don't think he's a Jose type player and he's not been afraid to let other big young talents go who they developed 'a set' elsewhere lol

But unfortunately for Jose he has to get with the programme here. The club have invested a lot in this kid. It's part of our philosophy to develop talent if at all possible, and Jose has to adapt to this I'm afraid. He can't come in to the club and change every single thing.

Whatever happens, we better make sure of a buy back clause.

 

[Fracture90]

Whatever happens, we better make sure of a buy back clause.

Considering we splashed 50 million for him, only few clubs in the world would be able to afford him and don't think they would accept any buyback clause tbh.

 

[Castia]

The problem is every time he's had a good game this season he's been dropped for the following fixture, he needs a run of games not play 1 miss the next 3.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

Mkhi's far from special ever since the injury, he has just one assist and zero goals in last 5 starts, and yet continues to start games, while Martial is in better form lately.

Mkhi's been involved in most of our positive build ups. His running with the ball causes gaps to open. His decision making when it comes to either pass, dribble or take on his man is impeccable. That said, you're right - the stats just aren't there for him yet.

Bringing Rooney two times in a row in attacking positions while we are chasing games because he prefers Rooney defensively workrate over Martial? Seems logic!

It's like defensive work rate doesn't leads to chances on the other end. Wow, it's almost like you're playing dumb at this point or just blatantly ignoring everything said because you're deadset on the whole 'Jose hates young players' bullshit.

You do realise one month is literally half of Mkhi's carrer here. Martial is also involved in far more goals, and that's exactly what we lack.

And in those two months of his, he's already outplayed Martial this year who's been so garbage that even the goals can't save him.

Can you explain again why Martial deserved to be dropped yesterday and not try to answer just some unimportant things I mentioned?

I already answered you, but you refuse to listen. For the last time, he's been wank this season. Yes, he's had his moments, but mostly against bad teams and the other guys have displayed more consistency - yes, even Mkhi and Rooney.

 

[Litch]

But unfortunately for Jose he has to get with the programme here. The club have invested a lot in this kid. It's part of our philosophy to develop talent if at all possible, and Jose has to adapt to this I'm afraid. He can't come in to the club and change every single thing.

Whatever happens, we better make sure of a buy back clause.

I agree. The worlds changing and he's already got sacked from Chelsea due to player power. Jose's strengths are his weaknesses but if he wants to here for any length of time, he needs to work out how to manage certain young footballers as he can't have a team of 27 - 35 year olds.

 

[Dr Pavel]

This one he's talking about Louis shouting at him but knowing he wants him to do well or whatever:
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...tial-says-he-laughs-when-louis-van-gaal-yells

Here they talk about the interview with L Equipe
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...Jose-Mourinho-Premier-League-France-Euro-2016
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...s/manchester-united-martial-van-gaal-11747323

Thanks. I've always thought that they must have a great relationship because it shows on the pitch imo. These stories confirm it.

Now we've spent a bunch of money on 2 players whose strengths are completely different to Martial's. Shame.

 

[Litch]

But unfortunately for Jose he has to get with the programme here. The club have invested a lot in this kid. It's part of our philosophy to develop talent if at all possible, and Jose has to adapt to this I'm afraid. He can't come in to the club and change every single thing.

Whatever happens, we better make sure of a buy back clause.

I agree, he can't have a team of 27-35 year olds here. Honestly I think one of the things that managers are motivated by is seeing young players develop, but I think Jose expects them to come emotionally ready made even if they are young men. Mikki came here an older player but with a weak mentality....he learnt the hard way. Forget he was strengthing his body, I think it was more about strengthing his mind.

Tony if your looking for the arm round the shoulder, it's not coming.

 

[Jazz]

Thanks. I've always thought that they must have a great relationship because it shows on the pitch imo. These stories confirm it.

Now we've spent a bunch of money on 2 players whose strengths are completely different to Martial's. Shame.

Yes they had a good relationship. Sorry, I couldn't find the link in English to the interview which was a bit more explicit.
Consider he's the only first teamer that's been vocal about something positive with LVG, and I wonder if that hasn't done him any favours. In any case, I hope it works out.

 

[BIGbadBOO4]

I agree. By Martial's own admission, he got annoyed when LVG kept going through his mistakes with him, but he said LVG told him he wants him to be 'the best' or words to that effect. He also said that he knew LVG only shouted at him because he wanted him to be better. Now from those utterings, it sounds to be me that Martial had complete belief that LVG wanted what was best for him. I actually think Jose should try this with him as he will respond.
Playing mind games (or whatever Jose is doing) won't work with the kid I don't think.

That's what I believe as well, mind games won't work on Martial. His personality is not suited to them. Martial probably already upset because he is always dropped after a game. So mind games will make it worse.

 

[El-Manos]

Why are people panicking, what happened?

 

[Fracture90]

Tony if your looking for the arm round the shoulder, it's not coming.

Unless you have last name "Fellaini" on the back of your shirt.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

Thanks. I've always thought that they must have a great relationship because it shows on the pitch imo. These stories confirm it.

Now we've spent a bunch of money on 2 players whose strengths are completely different to Martial's. Shame.

The first one is probably Zlatan but who is the second? If this is Pogba, you're most definitely on a wum and not even doing a good job at it.

 

[Jazz]

I agree, he can't have a team of 27-35 year olds here. Honestly I think one of the things that managers are motivated by is seeing young players develop, but I think Jose expects them to come emotionally ready made even if they are young men. Mikki came here an older player but with a weak mentality....he learnt the hard way. Forget he was strengthing his body, I think it was more about strengthing his mind.

Tony if your looking for the arm round the shoulder, it's not coming.

Yes agree. The club needs to talk to him about this or get SAF to have a word. I'm positive that Jose would take the hint as where else does he have to go after United? Plus, someone like Griezemann is already at his optimum level, but Martial has the potential to be truly great. It would be a shame to let him go and a big mistake by the club.

What Martial's agent should be advising him to do is kiss Jose's and Ibra's asses

 

[Fracture90]

Why are people panicking, what happened?

Martial handed in a transfer request!












Joking ofc.

 

[Damien]

Why are people panicking, what happened?

Mourinho said he dropped Martial against Stoke. No injury or illness, so naturally after him being dropped against West Ham and Hull too and the links to Griezmann some are concerned he's going to be pushed out of the club.

 

[Jazz]

Unless you have last name "Fellaini" on the back of your shirt.

Fellaini knows how to play the 'politics' game and stroke the 'egos' Probably tells Jose he's better than his missus

 

[Fracture90]

Fellaini knows how to play the 'politics' game and stroke the 'egos' Probably tells Jose he's better than his missus

 

[Slavkov]

You see that highlighted part is what tells a lot. When you lack any evidence of facts to support your claims you resort to attacking the poster himself.

Same was the way you entered this thread with guns blazing, calling people whiners, underestimating everyone's opionion and excluding everyone. At one point you started arguing with yourself.

Mata haven't played LW, Mikhi played half of one game good on LW and that was against Feyenoord, Lingard haven't had a single good performance on LW, whilst Rashford had few good cameos and few terrible ones.

Against both Liverpool and Arsenal he was our best player on the pitch and the only reason he was subbed is because Mourinho never subs Zlatan and he needs to bring Rashford in. And we all know Rashford can't play RW.

Also quote me the part where I've said that he had scored an equaliser vs Stoke?

Excuse me but those are your facts not mine, I completely disagree with everything you say. I stated 500 times that those 4 players contributed more to the team than Martial and my opinion is based on what I have seen this season. We can create another 590 posts but the result will not change, I will not change my opinion and obviously you won't change yours.
You quoted a poster and I thought you were quoting what he said and not 1/3 of it...

The bottom line for me is that Martial has been very inconsistent, does not contribute to the team enough and does not affect games as much as he should be and this diacussion resembles one of a world class player and he is definitely not there. He has the talent but he has been very poor this season, I have said it many times and there is no point saying one and the same thing 50 times...

 

[Fracture90]

Excuse me but those are your facts not mine, I completely disagree with everything you say. I stated 500 times that those 4 players contributed more to the team than Martial and my opinion is based on what I have seen this season. We can create another 590 posts but the result will not change, I will not change my opinion and obviously you won't change yours.
You quoted a poster and I thought you were quoting what he said and not 1/3 of it...

The bottom line for me is that Martial has been very inconsistent, does not contribute to the team enough and does not affect games as much as he should be and this diacussion resembles one of a world class player and he is definitely not there. He has the talent but he has been very poor this season, I have said it many times and there is no point saying one and the same thing 50 times...

Exactly those are mine facts, facts which you lack. You say others have been better in LW spot yet you fail to name those players and games respectively.

I've said he had big impact in Stoke game.

Like you said it's quite pointless to prolong this any further since you conveniently ignore parts of my posts that doesn't suit you.

Let me quote your saying from before, "Have a nice day".

 

[Slavkov]

Exactly those are mine facts, facts which you lack. You say others have been better in LW spot yet you fail to name those players and games respectively.

I've said he had big impact in Stoke game.

Like you said it's quite pointless to prolong this any further since you conveniently ignore parts of my posts that doesn't suit you.

Let me quote your saying from before, "Have a nice day".

Absolutely I said it like 5 times but you chose not to read it...Have a nice day

 

[Fracture90]

Absolutely I said it like 5 times but you chose not to read it...Have a nice day

Nope. All you did was repeating yourself saying Mikhi, Mata, Lingard and Rashford all did better than him but failing to specify which ones exactly outperformed Martial in LW position and when.

But oh well…

 

[Amar__]

It's like defensive work rate doesn't leads to chances on the other end. Wow, it's almost like you're playing dumb at this point or just blatantly ignoring everything said because you're deadset on the whole 'Jose hates young players' bullshit.

That's one of the most stupid things I've ever heard. Rooney being brought on against Liverpool when we are chasing a game because he is better defensively. As a striker.

As for the rest of your post, I never said or even implied something like that. I am not sure I ever criticisised here Mourinho for the youth thing. That's me done here. Bye bye.

 

[NoLookPasser]

Yeah, he's played 21 games and even then he's had more than "2.5 good games". Scored equaliser against Stoke off the bench, brace against West Ham too. He's only finished 90 minutes of a game four times this season. Mourinho doesn't trust him as much as others.

The time he was selected to start three consecutive games for us was at the start of the season (August 14th-27th).

So, statistically he has been our most productive player from the wing per minute and there are still some posters trying to justify his exclusion from the squad. This is truly bizarre and possibly concerning due to the emphasis Mourinho puts on statistics.

Here is a qoute from De Bruyne which he gave in an interview a year ago: http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...ed-to-prove-i-wasnt-good-enough-a3226946.html

"He [Mourinho] called in all the attacking midfielders. He showed us the stats of his six players - assists, goals, passing percentage, key passes, dribbles. He wanted to prove I didn't perform on the level of the others'

There are no footballing reasons why he shouldn't even be in the squad. Some of you are talking about his defensive work rate but I can't remember a time when he has not tracked back or let a full back go past him which even Rashford failed to do against Arsenal and Spurs.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

That's one of the most stupid things I ever heard. Rooney must be so good at pressing that he makes chances at other end, against Liverpool that is defending. Playing as a striker. Great stuff.

As for the rest of your post, I never said or even implied something like that. I am not sure I ever criticisised here Mourinho for the youth thing. That's me done here. Bye bye.

It's like winning the ball back isn't a valued thing anymore in football. Such visionary football thinking. How hipster of you.

fecking hopeless imbecile