Fellaini being included has zero to do with Martial, they play completely different roles and have completely different tasks within the team.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
Fellaini being included has zero to do with Martial, they play completely different roles and have completely different tasks within the team.
You do realise that these players that are currently first choice are having us in 6th place?
Let's disregard scoring 4 goals already 4 times - more than the LVG era? Our longest unbeaten streak since Fergie? This being one of the closest PL seasons ever, so close than Chelsea still has a legit chance at losing the league despite that unreal win streak? Or that there are 22 more games to go?
C'mon man....
It's a bit like the Nani situation. A player with obvious skill and talent being afforded much less room for errors and mistakes than other less talented players. I really hope it's more a case of off field issues influencing Jose here because based on actual performances he should be in the squad at the very least.
Absolutely right, my mistake, I have no idea what I am talking, he once, ALMOST, dribbled past a player who is 3rd choice in The free soup's reserve team and will probably never play above League 2 football again, but maybe i have forgotten the 5or6 chances Tony created against the scousers and the 10 goals he scored, his contribution was immense of course. I am sorry. Are you sure you did not watch the warming-up because I am sure he did score a couple of goals in an empty net then?
The fact that you recognise his game against Reading makes it clear that you lie about watching the game. So it's not a possible for a fact that a manager makes mistakes while the fans criticised the mistakes?
Why is everyone assuming that I've referring to Fellaini as if he took Martial's spot?
It was a comparison because one post before stated that players aren't being picked by their potential.
Therefore i was curious to know what's the criteria by which Fellaini is being picked.
Mate, Reading is a championship team , and in the game against Reading we could have been 5-0 up until the 15th minute. I do not think that this game can be used for deciding his qualities, but ok I accept the Reading game...3 good games in 30....
Humour me will you. Who by your criteria was our best outfield player against Liverpool?
Seems to me you somehow failed to notice that Martial was always marked by 3 Liverpool players which only shows Klopp's idea from where the biggest threat is coming.
Remember once when we played Rafael and Fabio in midfield and sidelined Paul Pogba. Arguably the best manager ever did that. Did not turn out too well did it? Managers are right a lot of the times - but that does not mean the posters/fans are never right or do not understand the game.
Nobody stood out it was a very poor game of football. Basically as funny as it is Fellaini affected the game the most in my opinion because he started winning almost every long ball and we were lucky to equalize...As far as Martial was concerned it is only natural that he was going to be doubled by the opposition having in mind he was playing against their weakest link and nevertheless he did absolutely nothing. I honestly do not understand most of you guys. Is he a great talent? Yes, he absolutely is. What has he done this season to justify his place in the team? 2.5 good games in 30- absolutely nothing! He is not even called up to the national team as of late because Deschamps said he had to change his attitude and improve all aspects of his game...
or two good games in his last three starts going by your criteria. But yeah, one not great performance is fair enough to drop him completely (after also being dropped after each of his previous two starts).
Frankly I don't care how many goals Ibra has scored. Mourinho's job isn't to ensure Ibrahimovic gets the golden boot. His job is to win. He has better players than LvG did so he should be doing better. He isn't because he can't get Martial back to last season's form. With all his new players he isn't doing any better. So I don't see the point.
This is a straw man argument because nobody said anything about one man doing it all. I said managers build their teams to maximise their best players ability.
I don't think it's speculation because everyone can see that they never get taken off and Martial does. How do you know Martial wants to be Mr Big Shot?
He just turned 21 and there are people here want him to be consistent and play his best game every week, God I love it here. If he could perform at his best every week he wasn't a talent he was a superstar. He is 21 and he should be inconsistent. If he is going to reach his potential there should be a faith in him from the manager that even when he doesn't play good stil play him the next game. But even when he does play good, possibly the best we have seen from a player in a game this season, the next game he is not even in the squad. When things doesn't work he is the first player that the manager takes off. When he's had a good run of games he's not even on the bench.
He's young he's raw and he has a lot to do but none of this is possible when the faith from the manager is not there. Young players need to be protected and help them to build their confidence. We took his number and we said shut up you should be fine or you have bad attitude. It's not about the number it's about treating one of your players as a second class citizen. He plays good we put him out of squad and again you should be fine or you have a bad attitude. We don't treat him like a Human we treat him like a superhero, we have some sort of imagination from a most ideal person and mentality and we want him to be that guy not the normal human he actually is.
The inconsistent Cristiano Ronaldo wouldn't be the player he is today if SAF put him out of squad every time he had a bad game which were a lot. He wouldn't be the player he is today without SAF's protection.
at the moment there's a Mourinho love atmosphere and every thing he does is right and should be justified somehow. His treatment to Mkhi, his treatment to Shaw and Martial, frozing Carrick at the start of the season and ect. It's not about Mourinho or Martial it's about Man Utd and the biggest talent they have. If he leaves and does a de Bruyne when the Mourinho love thing is over it will be Man Utd regretting Martial's departure. If he doesn't leave he won't reach his potential with this kind of treatment and lack of faith. Simple as that.
He's young he's raw and he has a lot to do but none of this is possible when the faith from the manager is not there. Young players need to be protected and help them to build their confidence. We took his number and we said shut up you should be fine or you have bad attitude. It's not about the number it's about treating one of your players as a second class citizen. He plays good we put him out of squad and again you should be fine or you have a bad attitude. We don't treat him like a Human we treat him like a superhero, we have some sort of imagination from a most ideal person and mentality and we want him to be that guy not the normal human he actually is.
The inconsistent Cristiano Ronaldo wouldn't be the player he is today if SAF put him out of squad every time he had a bad game which were a lot. He wouldn't be the player he is today without SAF's protection.
at the moment there's a Mourinho love atmosphere and every thing he does is right and should be justified somehow. His treatment to Mkhi, his treatment to Shaw and Martial, frozing Carrick at the start of the season and ect. It's not about Mourinho or Martial it's about Man Utd and the biggest talent they have. If he leaves and does a de Bruyne when the Mourinho love thing is over it will be Man Utd regretting Martial's departure. If he doesn't leave he won't reach his potential with this kind of treatment and lack of faith. Simple as that.
Surely someone must've had a bit more of a standout performance, right?
It is normal that he was going to be doubled but if you seen the game (alternatively if you go and check his highlights) you can see that he was surrounded with 3 or more players almost all the time with no help from Darmian or Pogba. Yet he managed to go past them few times.
I really don't see what is there not to be understood.
Firstly he did not play 30 games this season, secondly not any of our players that are capable of playing in LW position haven't made an impact to claim that LW spot. He had few pretty good games in the last month and he was just raising his form when everytime he gets dropped unexpectedly.
Tell me the name of a player that have made a standout performance in LW spot?
He is doing better.
We have the worst chance conversion rate in the entire league. Unless you think he's coaching players to miss chances you can't blame it on anyone else other than the players.
The fact that some peoples solution is to drop the ONLY player we have who is actually capable of putting the ball in the fecking net is downright bizarre.
I told you to watch the game and you still came back wasting my time
The way how you talk to someone won't surprise me if you won't last long on this forum
.
I'll show you how to talk properly instead of being rude:
5 attempts to take on players, 2 failed and 3 successful. Two attempts tackles both of them were successful, 1 crossing attempt and it was successful, makes 1 interceptions. 1 of the chance that Mkhytaryan had in second half came from his counter attack. He played by himself on the left both offensive and defensive while Darmian gave no support at all.
I'm talking about facts but you spoke about something you believe even though it's wrong.
Your argument was stupid. Martial played good game against Liverpool and doesn't deserve to be dropped from the squad, Mkhi was nothing better yesterday for example than Martial was against Liverpool, so people would have right in complaining if he starts ahead if Martial next game on the left side.
You seem confused. Let me break it down for you:
- Last year, we had a system that played to Martial's strengths and covered his weaknesses : hence, a one man team
- In theory, he should be tearing teams apart considering there's Zlatan and Pogba to take attention from him - but he's not doing that
- He's not going to be prioritized over Zlatan - this guy has led numerous teams to league titles and is well on his way to a Top 3 finish for the Golden Boot
- That being established, he needs to play off Zlatan for now - something he has failed to do effectively so far except for a few moments
- Going back to my point about the elite teams of the past, if we intend to go back to where we were from 06-11, we need to build a team that doesn't just revolve around just one guy - doesn't matter it it's Zlatan or Martial, we need a cohesive team with multiple options
- That he's struggling to thrive in a situation that doesn't completely revolve around him says more about his limitations, mentally/egocentric since he has a ton of talent, than anything else
Again, I love the kid but there's shade of Rooneyism going on here. Not everything can be blamed on someone else.
Maybe if we had better forwards and CMs, but we don't. Even at his lowest, Zlatan physically bullied opposing CBs which opened things up for us (that none of our other attackers, Tony included, capitalized on), Pogba has had some stinkers but again, who's to take his place?
So? Do you not understand English. 3 "consecutive matches" he had good game, he was dropped the next game for each games.
Why bring Mkhi here? I don't give a feck about Mkhi in this case. What is stupid about the argument? Point is he hasn't done anything to guarantee a start, nor does any of our attackers bar Zlatan, and I like that Jose has been firm on this. You play for the team, not the other way around.
There were also a lot of games last season when we missed stupidly simple chances. Nobody made any excuses for LvG.
Also I never said to drop Ibrahimovic. One thing is clear, goals alone is never enough for a striker. See Ruud and Berbatov.
Because the others offer more....I know Mata had a mare but can't see Martial even being there to defend it...
Erm, maybe because we are talking about Martial's status in the team and by the looks of it he is competing with the likes of Mkhi? Who are we going to talk about, Phil Jones?
If he is playing better than his competition then he should start, or should at least be subbed on ahead of the likes of Lingard, simple as it is. You are talking about him being undroppable but can't understand why I am comparing him with other players.
What facts bro, he did not create anything, only one cross to Ibra which was too long, his contribution was close to 0, that is the bottom line. If it was not for him to be born in December 1995, Canto would not have gone on to have such a great season after his ban and help us win the title. Moreover if it was not for Martial Schmeichel would have had such a terrific game against Newcastle at St James' . You are absolutely right.
You can talk whatever you want but neither Deschamps, nor Mou and most surely I do not believe that he has done enough to be in the team. I am not saying he is not a great talent, quite the opposite but his contribution to the team this season is pathetic and those are the facts.
What Mkhi did against Stoke has no bearing on what Martial's been doing so far this season. You want people to call out Mkhi being shit against Stoke? So be it. Again, that doesn't have any bearing on how Martial's been wank for most of the season.
Why should he be guaranteed to start or get subbed on ahead of Lingard? The kid's had about 4-5 good games this season. So that's out of 34-35 games all in all? Please tell me how that should justify him being a sure start.
Let them rotate and fight it out for playing time.
I understand it quite all right but you definitely don't and I have difficulties understanding what you are trying to say...
Lol ok let me break it down.
Ibra plays well whenever he has a team built around him. In theory, with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta around he should be tearing teams apart. The fact that he didn't and had to go back to Italy showed how much of a bottler he was then anything else.
Can we get this guy banned.
Mkhitaryan, Mata, Rashford, and Lingard have contributed more in those positions this season than Martial. Based on that those four deserve more to be playing in the two positions on both flanks and I really regret writing that about LIngard because in my opinion he is not good enough to be in this team but his contribution to the team is bigger than Tony's...
Yep, Zlatan bottled his way to 22 goals, 14 assists a Clasico game winner and the league title. I wish Tony will learn to be as much of a bottler as he is.
But hey, at least you finally acknowledge how that team had so many weapons, not rely on just Messi/Martial. Progress
What?
Did you watch us last season?
In what games did we create loads of chances and not score?
The issue was we didn't create chances last season:
"Van Gaal's side conjured up 312 openings this season - only Watford, Aston Villa and West Brom created fewer chances.
Of those United chances, Opta deem 44 of them to have been 'big' chances. In contrast, Arsenal made twice as many (88)."
This season, as of 6 days ago,
"Mourinho’s side have created 37 big chances this campaign but have managed to score just 12 of them leaving a conversion rate of 32.43%.
The Portuguese boss will be concerned that the conversion rate is the lowest out of all sides in the division especially as they aim for a top four spot."
By Opta stats we've created just 7 less 'big' chances in 22 games than we did in 38 last season. We've gone from creating nothing, but generally doing decently once we worked an opening, to being much better at creating chances, but pissing them away.
The bloke you're arguing against is having a nightmare but your fixed idea that Martial played well in a game where he completely failed in his primary function - creating or converting goal-scoring opportunities - despite playing against a rookie fullback does yourself no favours.
Mate i asked about LW spot, not winger position in general.
Just tell me the names of our players that have made a standout performances in LW position?
Tell me but be honest, what's bothering you the most, he fact that we're contemplating that Martial should be in our 18 men squad or the fact that we're criticising Mourinho for not doing so?
You keep mentioning Mata but you really think Lingard and Rooney offer more than Martial?
Rooney got us a draw yesterday and I think he contributed to the Liverpool goal so that's the last 2 games. Lingard I think works harder and a better team player. Shame as neither are anywhere close to Martial's potential but that's all it is a mo.
Honestly I do not care what most of us are saying. What is bothering me the most is that Martial has a huge talent and that he is not working to develop it and his contribution to the team is close to 0. Whether he plays or he does not play makes no difference whatsoever in our team performances this year and that is what really bothers me. Everybody has his/her right to criticize but I'd rather trust Mourinho than a poster here being that me, you, or someone else. I really do not care what people here and there think, I just want United to win and I am really unhappy that a player of that talent as Martial is ruining his career and not working towards being one of the top players in the world...
As far as "the LW position" in the modern game there are almost no wingers any more. Basically all of those 4 players can play on both flanks and compete to be playing in those two positions and in my opinion this season they have contributed more than Martial...
Great passive aggressiveness in your posts. Have a nice day!!! Bye mate!
Seems to me a lot of people are simply having their preconceptions about Mourinho confirmed; not sure I see any bias against youngsters in his stint with us so far. Seems to me, excepting Zlatan, Pogba and De Gea, he picks the rest of the team on merit. So I would concede but not support an argument that says Martial should be given favourable treatment like those three players I have cited. Martial has not been clearly better than Mkhitaryan nor Mata who started in his stead yesterday, so some of the reactions are bit OTT.
Apart from last season.
Those are some tenuous, extremely short term reasons for selecting players ahead of Martial.
- Status