Maybe, just maybe Mourinho doesn't rate the lad as highly as some of you do. I know it's difficult to comprehend the manager having different ideas for the team, but it's something to consider.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
Than those 2 posts you made are a bit contradictory to one another, would you agree?
In 2011 Berbatov was our top scorer and also the premier league's top scorer.Yep, Zlatan bottled his way to 22 goals, 14 assists a Clasico game winner and the league title. I wish Tony will learn to be as much of a bottler as he is.
But hey, at least you finally acknowledge how that team had so many weapons, not rely on just Messi/Martial. Progress
Yet he was left out of the CL final.
If you think that golden boots and scoring records are more important than a team playing well, you are very much mistaken.
All chances aren't the same. Does taking pot shots from outside the box count as a "big" chance?
In what sense?
If they are fighting for positions then they all deserve to be rotated, but if Martial plays decent game against Liverpool and gets dropped from the squad entirely in the next game while other players who have replaced him do worse than he did in the previous game, then I don't understand why he shouldn't start next game again? Starting Mkhi wide left yesterday was probably mistake by Jose because Martial wouldn't do any worse than he did, that's the only point people are trying to make. But many of you for some reason think that means "oh my God, Martial is undropable, he should start every game blah blah".
He should start or be subbed on ahead of Lingard simply because he isn't any worse than him this season, and he is in general better and far more promising player than him. And this is coming from someone who rates Lingard far highly than majority of caf.
You can't just pick Martial in the hope that he'll eventually figure it out or because you're scared he'll leave the club. Granted, Jose doesn't have a good record with youth, I just can't understand how a player he rates (he tried buying Martial at Chelsea) will suddenly go down in his estimation for no good reason. Martial has had his moments, but Mkhi, Rashford, Mata, Lingard and (ironically) Rooney have all been more consistent than him this year. I do hope that Jose will exercise a lot of patience with him, but TM has to double down and take his place back.
Obviously.
Which is why Opta split it into 'chances' and 'big chances'.
The answer to your question is obviously not.
Well those are your words there and i have already highlighted them in my previous comment.
Thank you for admitting that he was just decent against Liverpool. That's simply not enough. He's been bad this season with the exception of some moments, a decent performance isn't enough to mask a season's worth of inconsistency. Let him earn his place again. If he's the real deal, he'll come good. It's that simple.
Mkhi's been on fire since coming back from oblivion, definitely way better than Martial, not to mention he's of a different pedigree having been one of Europe's best players last year at Dortmud, and even Lingard has been a lot more consistent than Tony. Again, start-stop season for the kid.
Can you let me know where I can see these stats?
Didn't know he tried to buy Martial at Chelsea? Is that confirmed?
He's too small for Mourinho's type of striker IMO and he already had Hazard on LW.
And what is the contradiction? I really do not understand half of the posters here who are always whining and think they know everything about the game and I really do not care what they are saying and I really do want United to win...I cannot see the contradiction to be honest...
Might be right but the big problem is what else is there. It's unfair for those not to play whilst waiting for Martial to catch fire. We have a deep squad everywhere except midfield so if you don't crab your chance, you might find yourself rapidly down the pecking order. Not gonna get any easier as I believe we'll sign Griezmann in the summer too to play in the forward 3.
What the hell?
I don't care about Zlatan winning whatever individual award he won at Spain. You said he was a bottler = He won the league, he delivered great numbers, he scored the winner in El Clasico. You're obviously wrong.
A manager choses players for a number of reasons. Lingard gives better workrate om the flanks and hence Jose may be preferring him to Martial. That said, Martial shows more courage than Lingard as he actually tries to make things happen instead of passing it five yards to the man next to him and then wait for a cross or a pass inside the box.
Ok. On my question of whether you're more bothered by the fact that people are contemplating that Martial should always be part of 18 men squad or the fact that Mourinho is being heavily criticised for not doing so, you answered that those things aren't bothering you.
Yet in your first comment you stated how you don't understand how can people question Mourinho's decisions? You also stated that he's the best manager in the world.
Now i don't know what you mean by "not being able to understand". Is it the language barrier or that you can't see things from their angle? I take the latter is more probable.
It's as confirmed as planned transfers that didn't go through can get. Probably bought him with the intention to convert to something else. #10 maybe to replace Oscar?
How we didn't start against glen Johnson baffles me, could have torn him apart. To not even make the bench is worrying. I also think Mhki's performances since returning from injury have been overrated on here.
Yeah, he's played 21 games and even then he's had more than "2.5 good games". Scored equaliser against Stoke off the bench, brace against West Ham too. He's only finished 90 minutes of a game four times this season. Mourinho doesn't trust him as much as others.
The time he was selected to start three consecutive games for us was at the start of the season (August 14th-27th).
Who exactly was any better than him against Liverpool? Why wasn't Pogba or Mkhi dropped after that game, they were worse than him? Rooney came in as a sub and was terrible, only to be subbed on yesterday while Martial is dropped completely from the team? Where is the fighting for positions logic there, can you explain that?
He was good against Middlesborough, only to be dropped in the next game. Then he was great against Reading, by far our best player, only to be dropped for the next game against Hull. Then he was given start against Liverpool where he did good while majority of our team played like shit, only to be dropped from the squad completely in the next game. What exactly is he supposed to do?
Mkhi is average for weeks now, Martial is in far better form lately, and he actually has better numbers this season. Mkhi also missed two very good chances in last two games and put average performances. I couldn't really care less about him being one of Europe's best players last season(which is subjective anyway) when he couldn't get a start this season for us. Lingard has mostly been average this season with few good performances, definitely worse than Martial, and as I said, Martial is better player in general, and has higher potential so should be starting ahead of him when they are in similar forms anyway.
Last edited:
The bottler thing was a joke. I don't imagine that Ibrahimovic when he signed for Barcelona could think he would be fecked off out of the club after 1 year. It shows that sometimes too many cooks can ruin it. It would be great if players didn't have ego and self interest, but they do. And Ibra has a huge one. If bringing a 35 year old in means Martial gets sideline then I would rather not. It's not like we are killing it with Ibra in in the team either.
Might be right but I think it's more about Lingards more disciplined or Martial maybe has more ability in certain situations. Not sure we can question Lingards courage when you think about his contribution in big games namely last years final.....that's pretty ballsey if you ask me.
yep, Us City PSG Barca and Chelsea were in for him, the others had an eye on him for the future we battered them away by paying the highest and he also wamted to come to us over the others.
Okay.
Lord this man was never good at playing players in their actual positions.
Among all the bickering I'm scared we're going to lose Martial, would serve us right infact, play him down the left out of position, he has already said he see's his future as a central striker. Not building around his needs, very obviously will be world class unless injuries take over his career. I love me some Ibra but we should be playing around Pogba and Martial IMO. We saw what he can do when we play around him, the difference is now, we can have Ibra, Mkhi, Pogba as alternate options. Seriously this kid is hella talented and would hate to see him leave but at this rate I am fearful. I'm not one to knee jerk (check my past posts) and this is a personal feeling, I understand he hasn't been amazing, but he hasn't been terrible either, he's young and needs to play the crap out of his game. No one else remotely challenges him for his role because no one is good enough.
We've seen Mata play down the right for ages now and I hate it, I also hate moving to a 4-2-3-1 with Pogba, also including Mata pushes Mkhi to the left, he's better on the right and it's clear to see. Rashford has shown glimpses of absolute brilliance and has a lot of energy but would he have that starting on the left and not coming off the bench? Sure play Martial down the left but definitely have plans to move him centrally in the future but for right now, I understand why we are playing around Ibra and Pogba but I feel like, whilst losing points we should play around Martial since we've lost too many points playing around Ibra. Hindsight is 20/20 though. Just imagine how many Martial could score up top for us with Rashford backing him up off the bench/playing across the front 3. If you're upset with my post please recheck yourself, this is my personal opinion towards the matter, I am up for a good debate/discussion as to why you disagree with me though if you do!
We've seen Mata play down the right for ages now and I hate it, I also hate moving to a 4-2-3-1 with Pogba, also including Mata pushes Mkhi to the left, he's better on the right and it's clear to see. Rashford has shown glimpses of absolute brilliance and has a lot of energy but would he have that starting on the left and not coming off the bench? Sure play Martial down the left but definitely have plans to move him centrally in the future but for right now, I understand why we are playing around Ibra and Pogba but I feel like, whilst losing points we should play around Martial since we've lost too many points playing around Ibra. Hindsight is 20/20 though. Just imagine how many Martial could score up top for us with Rashford backing him up off the bench/playing across the front 3. If you're upset with my post please recheck yourself, this is my personal opinion towards the matter, I am up for a good debate/discussion as to why you disagree with me though if you do!
I doubt it to be honest, I have studied in London for a long time so I hope that my English is not so bad. I still see no contradiction whatsoever in what I am saying. I think that Mou is the best manager in the world, I definitely do. I still do not understand how can people question his decision about Martial, I have never said his decisions as a whole. I definitely do not understand how can half of the people here always whine no matter what and I do not understand why they think they know better than Mou. Therefore I try as hard as I can, even though it is very difficult to ignore some of the stuff that some people here say and it is only natural that the only way to do that is to ignore what those people who are always negative say all the time. Can you please use your brilliant knowledge of the English language and explain to me where the contradiction is in my line of thoughts...
Again what I also do not understand is that Martial is having an awful season, he was dropped from the national team, he is as inconsistent as he can be and has only had three, ok I agree, three good games for the whole season ( two of those games were as good as over very very early). He has contributed almost nothing to the team and I definitely think that those 4 players I mentioned, who are contributing more to the team than him should be above Tony in the pecking order, even though as far as ability is concerned, Martial is a much better player than any of them apart from Miki.
I would be more than grateful if you can explain to me where the contradiction is... Thanks in advance.
Yeah, he's played 21 games and even then he's had more than "2.5 good games". Scored equaliser against Stoke off the bench, brace against West Ham too. He's only finished 90 minutes of a game four times this season. Mourinho doesn't trust him as much as others.
The time he was selected to start three consecutive games for us was at the start of the season (August 14th-27th).
Exactly. And yet everytime he starts getting his form up he gets dropped unexpectedly.
Truly mind-boggling how some players are allowed to be poor, yet they get a pat on the back and unconditional support by our manager.
Yet others get shunned away after actually performing quite good.
His innate talent, his performances last season, the handful of recent performances where he's actually been alright. The notion that you give players a chance to play into form. The lack of consistency and chance grabbing from all the other wing options.
I'm not too worried though, I'm sure it'll end up alright.
Yeah, he's played 21 games and even then he's had more than "2.5 good games". Scored equaliser against Stoke off the bench, brace against West Ham too. He's only finished 90 minutes of a game four times this season. Mourinho doesn't trust him as much as others.
The time he was selected to start three consecutive games for us was at the start of the season (August 14th-27th).
So he has better numbers than others, scores more goals than others from the wing, is in good form lately and people still can't understand why some of us want him to start?
No point even arguing.
Who do you seriously see replacing Pogba?
Mkhi's been our best outfield player after Zlatan and Valencia since he came back from the grave - a few off games and he's already worse than a Martial who's been wank all season?
I myself disagree with Jose's call on this, but I'm guessing he prefers Rooney's workrate over Martial's laissez faire attitude about defense
He was decent at best against Liverpool, no need to exaggerate. Oh, and Boro and Reading aren't exactly world beaters.
Lately meaning one month? Mkhi's been more consistent (again, Martial hasn't even been average this year), plus his peaks are higher considering he's in his prime. Not sure why the Martial United brigade think we want him to feck off already; he's a kid, there was always bound to be some growing pains.
If Lingard's been shit, Martial's been worse. At least Lingard works his socks off whenever he does play. That's guaranteed with him. Martial's been so moody this year.
Disagree with playing Martial just because he has a higher potential. What good is potential if he doesn't use it? Prove it at practice and actually boss a game against quality opposition. We saw him do it last year; just hasn't worked this year. Needs to go back to basics.
Find it difficult to believe Martial is being dropped for footballing reasons. It is a 'mentality' issue. IMO Mourinho wants the lad to be more humble and not think he has already made it and Martial thinks he should be treated like a star (or is being fed stuff by his agents about how he should have a higher status in the side after his exploits last year). There is also the subplot, which no one mentions but I am sure Martial has spoken about how his long term desire is to be a 9 and how his idol is Ronaldo.. this conversion into a left wing forward, I am sure.. isn't something he is super happy with either.
Mourinho has a poor track record in this regard, not in the sense he is always wrong in isolating a young player and selling them.. (only KDB was a mistake) but that he doesn't quite master the art of challenging a young player but also knowing when to bring them back into the fold and make them feel loved too. Right now Martial probably just thinks the guy is a cnut and if his mindset is like that, the chances of him being receptive to what Jose has to say is going to be lower.
For the club's sake, we need them both to get on because based on that first 20 minutes vs Liverpool, forget Pogba or Zlatan.. Martial is the biggest big match talent we have at this club when he is on form and hungry, and we'd be idiots to destroy his confidence and sell him on. Kid's got lots of talent, and we should be getting that out of him.
Mourinho has a poor track record in this regard, not in the sense he is always wrong in isolating a young player and selling them.. (only KDB was a mistake) but that he doesn't quite master the art of challenging a young player but also knowing when to bring them back into the fold and make them feel loved too. Right now Martial probably just thinks the guy is a cnut and if his mindset is like that, the chances of him being receptive to what Jose has to say is going to be lower.
For the club's sake, we need them both to get on because based on that first 20 minutes vs Liverpool, forget Pogba or Zlatan.. Martial is the biggest big match talent we have at this club when he is on form and hungry, and we'd be idiots to destroy his confidence and sell him on. Kid's got lots of talent, and we should be getting that out of him.
I hope there really isn't a problem. It's quite depressing to think Mourinho would alienate the kid. He's super talented and you have to make allowances. I'm sure SAF treated Ronaldo differently as he could see his talent. You just have to be a little nuanced when dealing with different personalities.
I said it as a joke, but I really wonder if Martial is not playing the 'kiss Jose ass' game? How else do you explain others getting ahead of the kid when they don't deserve to?
I said it as a joke, but I really wonder if Martial is not playing the 'kiss Jose ass' game? How else do you explain others getting ahead of the kid when they don't deserve to?
I honestly believe this is not about his ability and more an attitude thing. I have no way of substantiating it, just all the other reasons don't make sense. Jose only allows a selective few who unconditionally will play irrespective of form and currently that consists of 5 players IMO. I don't think he thinks the rest have earned the right yet and I think some are still playing for their careers here. If your no prepared to die for the result, Jose won't rate you irrespective of your potential. Potential isn't a science, and most never deliver to their full potential and Jose seems to me to be a manager that trusts in what he sees rather than someone's crystal ball.
Martial needs to come off the pitch looking like he's been in a game rather than someone who's just done the warm up.
Martial needs to come off the pitch looking like he's been in a game rather than someone who's just done the warm up.
Martial grabbed his chance against Middlesbrough, was then benched against West Ham. He grabbed his chance against Reading, ended up being a sub against Hull. He tried against Liverpool. Wasn't fantastic but was triple marked and still played a part in one of the best chances of the game and was dropped from the squad against Stoke. Even when he grabs his chance he gets punished and then people say he's had '2.5 good games out of 30' when he's played 20 games this season and had 2 very good games in his last 3 games alone.
Agreed about Griezmann, and I fully believe he'll be signed with the intention of taking Martial's spot in the team.
SAF did just that with Ronaldo. Have you forgotten how frustrating Ronaldo was initially? I actually think Martial is far more composed than Ronnie was when he came to us. You just have to weigh things up and find a way to get the best out of a talented individual, however frustrating it is at times.
Really no need for you to be condescending. If you had actually read my comment you'd see that i suggested that "you not seeing things from their angle" is more probable.
If you can't see what's contradictory in those past comments of mine than I'm afraid there's not much i can do. I have already pointed all out and explained it.
Martial haven't played 30 games but 21 as @Damian has pointed out and he had great impact in game like vs Stoke, Middlesbrough, Reading, West Ham he was also very good against Arsenal, Liverpool etc.
Mind you the same manager that took Gignac to EURO instead of Lacazete and also is playing Pogba as right holding MF, is the one that shunned Martial.
Again please tell me which players did more in LW position or will you just keep ignoring it?
I am not really sure what's going on between Jose, Martial and his agent. But I am a little concerned by Martial treatment. For me Martial would be the player I would really be worried about playing against. As demonstrated by teams who usually double or triple team him. He has so much ability and with that also comes some inconsistency. When a player can do so much it means they can be infuriating. Martial needs to work on a few things I.e. movement and teamwork but we are and will be a better team with him in the side.
Some people prefer safe team players thus have less time for players like Martial but some people love flair players because they can do magical things. It's seems like here we have why people are disagreeing. I don't know Martial personally nor Jose but I believe putting an arm around martial and telling him how great he CAN become with hardwork and the right attitude may help. I been saying this for months but Martial has not been helped by our poor left back position. Imagine Evra in his prime behind Martial, he would be shining right now.
Some people prefer safe team players thus have less time for players like Martial but some people love flair players because they can do magical things. It's seems like here we have why people are disagreeing. I don't know Martial personally nor Jose but I believe putting an arm around martial and telling him how great he CAN become with hardwork and the right attitude may help. I been saying this for months but Martial has not been helped by our poor left back position. Imagine Evra in his prime behind Martial, he would be shining right now.
He actually started 15 and came off the bench 14 times in his first year. Even with special talents, you really have to phase them into the squad. Last year's Martial was an outlier that was a ridiculous risk to take for LVG. He could've flopped and had his psyche damaged.
I think the left backs have been instructed to hold back, while Valencia has been given more freedom. Only thing I can think of, which is a shame. If we had someone like Valencia on the left with the same level of freedom, it'd be perfect and would help Martial a lot.
I agree. By Martial's own admission, he got annoyed when LVG kept going through his mistakes with him, but he said LVG told him he wants him to be 'the best' or words to that effect. He also said that he knew LVG only shouted at him because he wanted him to be better. Now from those utterings, it sounds to be me that Martial had complete belief that LVG wanted what was best for him. I actually think Jose should try this with him as he will respond.
Playing mind games (or whatever Jose is doing) won't work with the kid I don't think.
- Status