[Home&Away]

He's definitely better as a wide forward than a central one, problem is that Jose really demands a lot from his wide players defensively and this is the big difference for Martial compared to last season.

Same position on paper but being asked to do a very different role. He's not a Jose wide player at all. Nor is he a Jose centre forward... Get my drift?

It wasn't the same position. Martial's influence on the game took a huge hit when Rashford was introduced centrally & was made to move to LW semi-permanently by LVG because it was too deep in to the season to change formation and play 2 up top. Another season with LVG and they would both be playing centrally and Lingard behind them - as even he was only played as a RW because it was too late to change everything that late in to a season.

People seem to be confused about this a lot and seem to thing his best performances came at LW ; which is not true but if they did - he always played with a fluid front 3 who had tactical freedom to do what they want in the final 3rd.

All this rubbish is just Jose's way of doing his traditional dishes at his clubs.

 

[3KDré]

People seem to be confused about this a lot and seem to thing his best performances came at LW ; which is not true but if they did - he always played with a fluid front 3 who had tactical freedom to do what they want in the final 3rd.

All this rubbish is just Jose's way of doing his traditional dishes at his clubs.

Did you even watch us play last year?

 

[Home&Away]

Did you even watch us play last year?

Yeh- What did I get wrong?

Martial, Rashford & Lingard were all forwards that dribble & have relative experience on the various channels - that's what makes it a fluid front 3 which defers to playing with a target man.

Secondly - possesion and positioning was strictly kept in the first 2/3 of the pitch and in the final 3rd, players were allowed to be more relaxed with such restraints. That's what possesion football is about and stated by pep and Lvg. Whether they were particularly successful/entertaining or not is different to the actual implication of the tactic.

The whole team now has more freedom to attack across the pitch but the actual wide forwards have to do much more positioning and defending right compared to last year now we have no where near the same amount of possession moving the ball.

What did I get wrong?

 

[3KDré]

What did I get wrong?

Our front three was never fluid. Granted they didn't have to defend much but no part of the entire team had fluid movement.

 

[Home&Away]

Our front three was never fluid. Granted they didn't have to defend much but no part of the entire team had fluid movement.

A front 3 of martial, Lingard and Rashford have more fluidity to interchange position than say Martial Ibrahimpvic and Rashford. The first 3 are able to move at the same pace- particularly by dribbling at the defence, are able to interchange positions and are keeping the ball on the floor - at this time martial was more of a wide forward than a wide midfielder.

For vast majority of the season - we had Ibrahimpvic up front as the central striker and our target man - Martial's priority isn't to dribble at the defence and move in to vacant spaces as Rashford or Lingard would complement but his main priorities lie in maintaining width, providing crosses to the target man and defending whenever we don't have the ball.

A wide forward to a wide midfielder.

 

[Adisa]

Has three games to prove he should be ahead of Lingard in the final. Hope he takes it.

 

[3KDré]

A front 3 of martial, Lingard and Rashford have more fluidity to interchange position than say Martial Ibrahimpvic and Rashford. The first 3 are able to move at the same pace- particularly by dribbling at the defence, are able to interchange positions and are keeping the ball on the floor - at this time martial was more of a wide forward than a wide midfielder.

They could have interchanged more, but it was clear as day they didn't do it that much because of the way LVG made them play. The difference between then and now is that Martial and Lingard and Rashford were always a lot higher up the field so they have to track back less because we played the game essentially in one half.

 

[el3mel]

A front 3 of martial, Lingard and Rashford have more fluidity to interchange position than say Martial Ibrahimpvic and Rashford. The first 3 are able to move at the same pace- particularly by dribbling at the defence, are able to interchange positions and are keeping the ball on the floor - at this time martial was more of a wide forward than a wide midfielder.

For vast majority of the season - we had Ibrahimpvic up front as the central striker and our target man - Martial's priority isn't to dribble at the defence and move in to vacant spaces as Rashford or Lingard would complement but his main priorities lie in maintaining width, providing crosses to the target man and defending whenever we don't have the ball.

A wide forward to a wide midfielder.

It'll be terrible. Some formations just appear good on paper but on the field never work. Their styles of play are contradicting each other clearly.

Martial wants to stick the ball to his leg and dribble through defenders till crossing and shooting, while Rashford wants to move behind defenders and utilize space behind them while Lingard is moving aimlessly on the field and when he gets the ball he will also only want to dribble.

There will be no coherence and link between them and don't expect any interchanging. They'll appear together as 3 brainless chickens running for no purpose.

 

[kouroux]

Has three games to prove he should be ahead of Lingard in the final. Hope he takes it.

Way too late, unless he scores a hat trick or something or injuries. Mourinho has a certain number of players he trusts.

 

[Home&Away]

It'll be terrible. Some formations just appear good on paper but on the field never work. Their styles of play are contradicting each other clearly.

Martial wants to stick the ball to his leg and dribble through defenders till crossing and shooting, while Rashford wants to move behind defenders and utilize space behind them while Lingard is moving aimlessly on the field and when he gets the ball he will also only want to dribble.

There will be no coherence and link between them and don't expect any interchanging. They'll appear together as 3 brainless chickens running for no purpose.

No I'm not talking about a new formation; I'm talking about the difference between what martial was doing last season and now including who he was playing with.

I don't believe half the things about his work rate and attitude that's all and I have heard it all before from Jose about some other class players.

Martial is asked to play as a left midfielder now and not as a forward. You have some people who will state that he doesn't do enough or good enough defensive work and then also the fact he doesn't score goals like he did last season.

Fact is - last season he didn't have to do defensive work since we retained possession and LVG's tactics in theory was that the front 3 have freedom to do what they want in the final 3rd as long as they started off in the right position.

Now we have Jose who wants martial to stick to the left channel, provide crosses, retract defensively & maintain width on the attack. It's all very confusing and none of which suits his abilities. You compare this to last season where he could cut in from the left, didn't have to cross the ball as everything was on the ground coupled with the fact he played with similar styled players - i don't understand why the first thing people seem to think is there's something wrong with his work rate or attitude.

I mean is this the same work rate and attitude that mata, de bryune, Lukaku didn't have? Because it was getting to the time last season where hazard was having the same sort of problems under Jose. Either way I think Woodward should make sure we keep martial in our books whether Jose rates Martial or not.

 

[el3mel]

No I'm not talking about a new formation; I'm talking about the difference between what martial was doing last season and now including who he was playing with.

I don't believe half the things about his work rate and attitude that's all and I have heard it all before from Jose about some other class players.

Martial is asked to play as a left midfielder now and not as a forward. You have some people who will state that he doesn't do enough or good enough defensive work and then also the fact he doesn't score goals like he did last season.

Fact is - last season he didn't have to do defensive work since we retained possession and LVG's tactics in theory was that the front 3 have freedom to do what they want in the final 3rd as long as they started off in the right position.

Now we have Jose who wants martial to stick to the left channel, provide crosses, retract defensively & maintain width on the attack. It's all very confusing and none of which suits his abilities. You compare this to last season where he could cut in from the left, didn't have to cross the ball as everything was on the ground coupled with the fact he played with similar styled players - i don't understand why the first thing people seem to think is there's something wrong with his work rate or attitude.

I mean is this the same work rate and attitude that mata, de bryune, Lukaku didn't have? Because it was getting to the time last season where hazard was having the same sort of problems under Jose. Either way I think Woodward should make sure we keep martial in our books whether Jose rates Martial or not.

Hmmm what the relation of all this to my post ? You was talking about how Martial, Rashford and Lingard together will be interchangeable and great and I said this combination will be terrible. I'll still replay anyway.

What you're saying still not enough to justify his terrible performance through the season imo, because when you bring a manager with different philosophy than the previous one, the players have to adapt to his style. If each player will complain " oh the new manager style isn't suited for me " then no player will remain in a club 2 years in a row because of continuous changing of managers. Pep has a complete different philosophy than Heynckes when he arrived at Bayern but no player complained and were trying to adapt. Manager isn't forced to change his style to suit one player, he can chop him and bring players that can apply his system. Simple. It's the players duty to try and fill the role the manager give them efficiently.

And I'll be honest and say I have never seen a player having all these excuses for his terrible performance before, well except for Rooney. This year we have blamed managers tactics, manager not playing him regularly, Zlatan not passing to him, Darmian not helping him and everything else for any bad performance for him while other players are slaughtered for the slightest mistakes, even Rashford. We know the player is talented but he is criticizable as any other player. He must hold responsibility for his performance on the pitch.

For me Martial's problem was that he was the center of our attack last season, LVG built the attack on him completely and all balls must pass through him in any of our attack. Under Jose this isn't happening anymore. He's not the center of attacks and there are other attacking players as Pogba and Zlatan taking this role from him. Under Jose he turned from the one and only engine of the team to a part of a system with certain roles and instructions. He has to adapt to this, otherwise he will have to move to a club with a manager who builds the attack completely on him, which isn't going to happen here.

 

[TehRed]

We'll get more out of Martial if we play him centrally. He's got pace and the ability to beat a man but I feel he's happier when played centrally and he is a player who needs to be happy and confident or he wont play well.

I'm hoping he gets games in the league now and Rashford gets at least a bit of a rest for the Europa League final. Hopefully he can be involved in a couple of goals in that time.

I'm rather worried that any striker we sign will leave Martial languishing on the bench, unhappy and out of confidence, and that he won't do well when he does get chances.

 

[Sammyjunn]

He underwhelms me almost every time he plays lately, I dont know what exactly he adds. He works hard, and he occasionally dribbles past defenders but it looks like nothing is coming out of it. I want the old Martial back.

 

[Garethw]

Give Monaco £60 million and Martial for Mbappe.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

After reading some of the recent posts...

Last Season under LVG, the front three (Martial---Rashford---Lingard) weren't that fluid and doesn't interchange their positions. If I recall correctly. Heck, even Rashford was scolded by LVG during half time team talk for diverting away to the wide area and told to stay in his designated area, more centrally. Martial mostly play on the left wing area and sometimes on the right often after Depay is subbed on, and he rarely drifted to the central striker zone except during like crosses where the wingers are coached to run to their first goal posts. I don't quite remember him playing as striker except the few games after his debut.

In LVG's formation, every players have their "zone of play". It's quite strict but for possession sake, it's efficient enough. It's like playing Chess of keeping the ball the most and increase the 'lovely' stats of possession until reaching ecstasy. Thing is, opponents just let us have it, and end the match often letting it end with draw, at least got one pt. Rarely was there any interchangeable positions except the constant covering interchanging between the 2 CDMs and the defenders position. Again, if I remember correctly, hard to focus seeing the match last seasondoze off very quickly.

Anyhow, I'm sure Martial will improve eventually. He seems to be a slow learner, maybe, despite having superb physique and natural football ability. Just need to improve his football understandings like the off-the-ball movements, running upfront into spaces and improving workrate etc. Under Mourinho, I'm sure Anthony will learn plenty. Well, if he planned to be a better player at least or have higher ambition like being one of the best players, then he should know listening to a winning manager does make sense. I'll be worried if he's satisfied with his current football capabilities.

 

[RuudTom83]

Martial hasn't progressed at all, in fact he has gone backwards which is a worry.

 

[Rajeev]

Another player who needs to really shape up in the next season or be shipped out. He was a really good hard worker and showed his talent in the first season. A big reason why he has had a poor second season is because he did not stay grounded and the fame has got to him. Not to mention personal life also affects the form of a footballer.
Footballers these days have half a good season and they get insane wages and then their form drips. Martial has loads of talent but he has looked lazy and uninterested this season. I would love for him to be part of United for the next 5-6 years but for that, he really needs to rediscover the Martial of old. I'm not convinced at all by his excuses so far that he's only 21 years old, he has to prove it sooner than later.

 

[Rajeev]

Give Monaco £60 million and Martial for Mbappe.

There is no guarantee Mbappe will be a success here in the long term and he will be on insane wages like Pogba's if he comes here.
Let him go to Real like he wants, I would rather buy Kane who has had a few good seasons.

 

[VorZakone]

You can discuss positions and tactics all you want but if Martial isn't 100% focused on his game it's meaningless. He needs to sort out his personal life.

 

[Rajeev]

You can discuss positions and tactics all you want but if Martial isn't 100% focused on his game it's meaningless. He needs to sort out his personal life.

Amen, you are so right. Personal life has so much of an impact on the form of a footballer. Look at Mata, Herrera and De Gea, all of them settled and are so disciplined. The likes of Depay, Martial and Lingard have no discipline whatsoever. All have loads of talent and can be top notch but they instantly get massive wages after playing well only for half a season. This is what's wrong with football these days, too much money thrown around and wasted just like anything.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Amen, you are so right. Personal life has so much of an impact on the form of a footballer. Look at Mata, Herrera and De Gea, all of them settled and are so disciplined. The likes of Depay, Martial and Lingard have no discipline whatsoever. All have loads of talent and can be top notch but they instantly get massive wages after playing well only for half a season. This is what's wrong with football these days, too much money thrown around and wasted just like anything.

How does lingard have no discipline whatsoever?

And de gea is hardly settled. He has wanted to be in Madrid for how long now. Nor has he been that good this season.

 

[Litch]

I think Jose has a problem as was last season success just because he was unknown and playing without pressure or is this the real Martial. Honestly whilst I'm excited about signing young players, I can understand why you have a team of 27+ years olds. There's no surprises and generally by that age, you know what they are and you know what they aren't....

 

[ilovethisgameahahah]

Amen, you are so right. Personal life has so much of an impact on the form of a footballer. Look at Mata, Herrera and De Gea, all of them settled and are so disciplined. The likes of Depay, Martial and Lingard have no discipline whatsoever. All have loads of talent and can be top notch but they instantly get massive wages after playing well only for half a season. This is what's wrong with football these days, too much money thrown around and wasted just like anything.

Are you a coach at United? To say Depay, Martial and especially Lingard have a bad attitude to justify Martial been tossed in and out of the fist team is nonsensical.

Last season Martial was ice cold and this season he has a terrible attitude according to the body language experts, nothings changed though. Martial has been set up to fail this season by being dropped from the team regardless of how well he performs whilst other first teamers can keep their spot regardless of how consistently bad they are, especially Jose's signings. Martial is potentially our best player but he has the same problem as many forwards under Jose suffer, he's being converted into a defensive winger/2nd left back when he has none of the attributes of one. We should have built the team around him and Rashford together, especially after Zlatans injury.

 

[3KDré]

Amen, you are so right. Personal life has so much of an impact on the form of a footballer. Look at Mata, Herrera and De Gea, all of them settled and are so disciplined. The likes of Depay, Martial and Lingard have no discipline whatsoever. All have loads of talent and can be top notch but they instantly get massive wages after playing well only for half a season. This is what's wrong with football these days, too much money thrown around and wasted just like anything.

Depay? Lingard? Memphis didn't last here simply because he wasn't good enough, if his attitude wasn't good enough Mourinho would have called him out on it, just as he did with Mkhitaryan/Martial/Shaw. And Lingard is one of the most disciplined players in the team. That's why he starts the big games- because Mourinho knows he will carry out exactly what's asked of him.

 

[OohAahMartial]

Jose's current demands of him don't suit his natural skill set. I say current because potentially with a better LB behind him and CB pairing he can get further up the pitch and have less defending responsibility. Next season will be make or break for him. He simply has to form a productive partnership with the new LB. I have seen signs of him trying to develop himself more defensively, but its alarming how he has regressed in some areas (finishing), looks found out or limited in others (dribbling) and still seems lazy. I've gone from optimistic to pessimistic as to his success with us. LVG signings and Jose just don't mix.

 

[Pexbo]

Jose's current demands of him don't suit his natural skill set. I say current because potentially with a better LB behind him and CB pairing he can get further up the pitch and have less defending responsibility. Next season will be make or break for him. He simply has to form a productive partnership with the new LB. I have seen signs of him trying to develop himself more defensively, but its alarming how he has regressed in some areas (finishing), looks found out or limited in others (dribbling) and still seems lazy. I've gone from optimistic to pessimistic as to his success with us. LVG signings and Jose just don't mix.

It's an odd label to put on Martial in my opinion. He's never been seen as a typical Van Gaal player by any stretch and was apparently a club scouting effort that Van Gaal agreed to go with which is very much the same as Herrera who is flourishing under Mourinho.

 

[OohAahMartial]

It's an odd label to put on Martial in my opinion. He's never been seen as a typical Van Gaal player by any stretch and was apparently a club scouting effort that Van Gaal agreed to go with which is very much the same as Herrera who is flourishing under Mourinho.

Certainly seemed much happier under LVG.

Herrera is like a Jose mini-me.

 

[Rajeev]

Depay? Lingard? Memphis didn't last here simply because he wasn't good enough, if his attitude wasn't good enough Mourinho would have called him out on it, just as he did with Mkhitaryan/Martial/Shaw. And Lingard is one of the most disciplined players in the team. That's why he starts the big games- because Mourinho knows he will carry out exactly what's asked of him.

We got lucky against Celta at OT because their striker missed a open goal. I haven't understood his contribution in big games and don't tell me having off the ball movement counts for him. Lingard is a liability and he has missed countless open and easy goals and he doesn't belong to Man United if we want to have ambition of winning the PL and CL. If we are okay with fighting for top 4 for the next 5 years, Lingard fits us to a T. If he was disciplined then he would know to carry the ball and create chances which is what his job in the team should be but he constantly gives the ball away and even if he has it, he doesn't know what to do with it.
Although, Depay seems to be doing fine in Lyon right now. My point is these players have all the talent in the world but they instantly get paid high wages if they have half a good season and then they go crap.

 

[Adisa]

I feel for him to be honest. He has limited opportunity to impress before the season runs out. These kind of matches with these tactics will do nothing for him and his confidence. People forget he's still a very young player.

 

[Minimalist]

Martial needs to be a striker. Even when we're cack, he always looks dangerous.

 

[Adisa]

Martial needs to be a striker. Even when we're cack, he always looks dangerous.

He's playing up front on his own.

 

[El Zoido]

I wish he didn't constantly look like the weight of the world is on his shoulders.

 

[100]

This is the kind of match he'll come under criticism for not making an impact when he's trying to feed off Chris Smalling's hot potato impressions

 

[Minimalist]

He's playing up front on his own.

I know, I'm saying I think he looks miles better there than on the left.

 

[cj_sparky]

I feel sorry for him, sod all service and a lack of speed around him to help press as well.

 

[Godfather]

Sod all service? Yes. Should he still do better? Definitely. The players that has regressed the most under Mourinho.

 

[AndyJ1985]

The players around him are garbage but Martial should still be doing a lot better. Very disappointed in him this season.

 

[AXVnee7]

I could've sworn he was a lot quicker with the ball? Referencing the run in when the Spurs player caught up and shrugged him off the ball.

 

[Kevin]

Huge Martial fan but he has regressed. Totally lost that spark he had from last season. That ball through around the 40th minute, last season's Martial would trouble the defender and get a shot off. Today and for most of last season you knew he would somehow feck it up, nothing that requires more than the average is working for him.

 

[DWelbz19]

Huge Martial fan but he has regressed. Totally lost that spark he had from last season. That ball through around the 40th minute, last season's Martial would trouble the defender and get a shot off. Today and for most of last season you knew he would somehow feck it up, nothing that requires more than the average is working for him.

It's almost like, he's playing without confidence anymore, man.