[Womp]

The few times he got in good positions he couldn't get the better of a defence that were absolutely knackered.

 

[3KDré]

Mourinho just said that he trusts Rashford because of his work ethic and mentality, and some other players don't understand this. Perhaps he is referring to Martial? I don't know but I would understand.

 

[BringNaniBack]

Again - seems like people really want a headless chicken. He did his job perfectly - even got a great tackle in - held the ball with great chest control and kept possession. What the feck was he supposed to do?

I'm a big fan of Martial but he was just strolling around or standing still for the majority of the time he was on the pitch tonight. When we were hanging on and defending for our lives he was just standing there not even attempting to help out the defence.

 

[el3mel]

He wasn't bad but wasn't special.

Jose favoring him over Rooney in a crucial game like this should put an end to any silly argument talking about him not trusting Martial.

 

[AR87]

I thought he was poor when he first came on but he looked much better in the 2nd half of extra time. He always seems to need 10-15 minutes before he gets up to the pace of a game.

 

[Silas]

I'm a big fan of Martial but he was just strolling around or standing still for the majority of the time he was on the pitch tonight. When we were hanging on and defending for our lives he was just standing there not even attempting to help out the defence.

Wouldn't be surprised if he was instructed to stay further up, so he could act as an outlet in the case of us winning the ball back. Makes sense considering he was relatively fresh.

 

[CM]

I thought he was pretty good in the second period of extra time, he made a couple of runs to beat players and would've scored if the timing of his run was a little better. He didn't do a lot of running or defending but Ibrahimovic wasn't before he went off either.

 

[Santoryo]

Seems like the "lazy" tag has become something of a default criticism some just want to throw around about him.

This is going to continue until God knows when.

 

[DWelbz19]

Seems like the "lazy" tag has become something of a default criticism some just want to throw around about him.

This is going to continue until God knows when.

It really will. Does anyone actually have the average distance covered per 90 minutes, or something like that? I'm sure stats can be found by those savvy enough to do so.

 

[Fracture90]

Seems like the "lazy" tag has become something of a default criticism some just want to throw around about him.

This is going to continue until God knows when.

That and "he's off the ball movement" and "he's not making runs" when were trying to break the bunker...

 

[VorZakone]

What annoys me the most about this is that out of all the players it just had to be Martial who doesn't have a good working relationship with Mourinho for whatever reason. The most talented player in the squad who should have contributed much more this season.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Mourinho just said that he trusts Rashford because of his work ethic and mentality, and some other players don't understand this. Perhaps he is referring to Martial? I don't know but I would understand.

Yea i think he is referring to Martial. Rashford keep moving when we have the ball and then if we lose it, he tracks back forcefully. Martial doesnt do those two things.

 

[Ace of Spades]

He was okay, not great but also not shit.

 

[CM]

It really will. Does anyone actually have the average distance covered per 90 minutes, or something like that? I'm sure stats can be found by those savvy enough to do so.

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...bottom-of-premier-league-for-distance-covered

Manchester United defender Eric Bailly covers 7.99 km per 90 minutes on average

A host of his team-mates are among the league's least mobile players, including Phil Jones (8.89km), Zlatan Ibrahimovic (8.95km), Anthony Martial (9.16km) and Chris Smalling (9.21km).

 

[Eckers99]

The few times he got in good positions he couldn't get the better of a defence that were absolutely knackered.

Yeah, that was really frustrating. Should've had their full back on toast but just couldn't make an impact. Sorely lacking confidence right now.

 

[Dobbs]

Again - seems like people really want a headless chicken. He did his job perfectly - even got a great tackle in - held the ball with great chest control and kept possession. What the feck was he supposed to do?

Agree. These sub performances are being massively over analysed.

I think part of the problem is that he's directly compared to Rashford which is unfair. Not all players are the same, different styles, different way of doing things. A young Ronaldo wasn't the same as a young Fletcher.

Of course if Martial hasn't got the crazy work ethic Rashford has then he has to produce more on the ball, that's the trade off. Right now it's not happening but he was fine tonight.

 

[Santoryo]

That and "he's off the ball movement" and "he's not making runs" when were trying to break the bunker...

Yep. This thing has suddenly took off lately and your typical lazy and bandwagoners Caftards are just repeating it over and over, especially given they've seen it become a bit of a trend.

The reason you see these lots with claims such as "Martial was lazy"," lack of effort", etc is because they know it's the current trendy and hipster thing to say about Martial and expect a ship following of equally ignorant posters who'll claim the same and back such argument by default.

This has gotten a bit out of hand. These type of talks never get picked by your expert Caftards until they hear it from someone and suddenly they start pretending they've held such opinions and would spam it over and over.

Such blatant ignorance around these boards.

If Martial doesn't light the place on fire and merely has an Ok game, it's an excuse for that lot to claim he was lazy. It's quite embarrassing.

 

[DWelbz19]

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...bottom-of-premier-league-for-distance-covered

Cheers. Does seem like he does cover a lot less ground, then.

 

[OldTrevil]

He was getting better and better once he got into the rhythm of the game, he really battled and got stuck in which was great to see. I had a feeling he would score as time went on and it almost happened but he was too eager to make the run for the through ball at the end. He will get more opportunities.

 

[Devil may care]

Looked up for it when he came on and almost got on the scoresheet, protected the ball well.

 

[pocco]

@Santoryo if you think Martial has been anywhere near his best or anything like that then you don't quite understand exactly what the guy is capable of. Everybody wants to see him push himself to become what he is capable of. If everyone took your view he would never achieve his potential and will never be good enough to be a permanent starter for United.

United fans love the guy so stop being so defensive of him.

 

[Marcelinho87]

What annoys me the most about this is that out of all the players it just had to be Martial who doesn't have a good working relationship with Mourinho for whatever reason. The most talented player in the squad who should have contributed much more this season.

I think Rashford is more talented to be honest, some of the shit he was pulling off tonight such as cruyff turns and rabonas was crackers.

 

[Sylar]

TBH, I thought he deserved that bollocking at ET HT. He came on and he just looked... yeah. You would think he would have the most energy, coming on facing a team where the majority played 90 minutes. he really should have been the most fresh out of the players, especially with his pace to exploit them.

He did better in that second half though. Shame he was offside. I really hope he sticks at it and keeps working.

 

[JG3001]

Yep. This thing has suddenly took off lately and your typical lazy and bandwagoners Caftards are just repeating it over and over, especially given they've seen it become a bit of a trend.

The reason you see these lots with claims such as "Martial was lazy"," lack of effort", etc is because they know it's the current trendy and hipster thing to say about Martial and expect a ship following of equally ignorant posters who'll claim the same and back such argument by default.

This has gotten a bit out of hand. These type of talks never get picked by your expert Caftards until they hear it from someone and suddenly they start pretending they've held such opinions and would spam it over and over.

Such blatant ignorance around these boards.

If Martial doesn't light the place on fire and merely has an Ok game, it's an excuse for that lot to claim he was lazy. It's quite embarrassing.

I've given him a grilling this season, but I'm not criticising him on lack of effort or laziness... it seems he's lost some of that knack to switch things up and confuse defenders, which he did for fun last season. It's more frustration that he looks almost like he's forgotten how to take a man on, whether it be with or without the ball.

Watching him, he genuinely looks like he's trying, but the failures are outweighing the successes, and it has definitely knocked his confidence, which is being made worse by the Mourinho comments (I don't think he can hack the Mou brand of criticism, which can be unforgiving)

 

[Dobbs]

Yep. This thing has suddenly took off lately and your typical lazy and bandwagoners Caftards are just repeating it over and over, especially given they've seen it become a bit of a trend.

The reason you see these lots with claims such as "Martial was lazy"," lack of effort", etc is because they know it's the current trendy and hipster thing to say about Martial and expect a ship following of equally ignorant posters who'll claim the same and back such argument by default.

This has gotten a bit out of hand. These type of talks never get picked by your expert Caftards until they hear it from someone and suddenly they start pretending they've held such opinions and would spam it over and over.

Such blatant ignorance around these boards.

If Martial doesn't light the place on fire and merely has an Ok game, it's an excuse for that lot to claim he was lazy. It's quite embarrassing.

Agree with all that. Happens across the board. If Martial was genuinely lazy he wouldn't be getting anywhere near the team.

What I would say is that as well as just generally playing better I feel he needs a little more fire about him. I'm not a fan of this ice cool demeanour, it just doesn't lend itself to football. Even the most talented are better players for having a bit of aggression.

Ultimately though he just needs confidence and rhythm.

 

[Santoryo]

Agree with all that. Happens across the board. If Martial was genuinely lazy he wouldn't be getting anywhere near the team.

What I would say is that as well as just generally playing better I feel he needs a little more fire about him. I'm not a fan of this ice cool demeanour, it just doesn't lend itself to football. Even the most talented are better players for having a bit of aggression.

Ultimately though he just needs confidence and rhythm.

Currently he certainly needs confidence, especially for the type of player he is. Dribblers often need that confidence and spark back in order to be daring with no second guessing.

I'm also critical of his off the ball movement sometime which hasn'tbeen the strongest part of his game, even last season but such thing as movement can be learned and improved upon.

Problem with this board, beside those who just want to whine about Martial for whining sake(the current trendy thing to do on this board) is that some are confusing a weakness with laziness and lack of effort.

This sudden narrative about Martial just stepping on a pitch and not being arse or willing to do anything is just some of the most ridiculous thing one would hear on the Caf among many other absurdities.

 

[limerickcitykid]

I think Rashford is more talented to be honest, some of the shit he was pulling off tonight such as cruyff turns and rabonas was crackers.

As well as Pogba is more talented, Ibra is, I'd say Mkhi too and even Mata. I don't how he is somehow labelled most talented like Pogba is just clearly more talented.

 

[snk123]

I think Rashford is more talented to be honest, some of the shit he was pulling off tonight such as cruyff turns and rabonas was crackers.

As Ibra said about Messi and Ronaldo, Martial is natural, Rashford is trained. There are not many players with close control that Martial has and it is just selective memory loss when people try to put Rashford above him.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

Thought he was fine.

Needs to take his chance with Ibra being out.

 

[Red_toad]

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...bottom-of-premier-league-for-distance-covered

Id certainly be Looking at a winger to cover far more ground than Smalling per game. Seems the lazy tag is being earned. Ibra and the centre halfs are pretty static when we play, lord knows how Martial isn't putting in more movement.

 

[ti vu]

Again - seems like people really want a headless chicken. He did his job perfectly - even got a great tackle in - held the ball with great chest control and kept possession. What the feck was he supposed to do?

Nonsense. Headless chicken is when where overstepping other players position when leaving your own zone. There is a lot of space a fresh pacy attacker to attack. He simply lacks off ball movement to lose his marker and run into this space helping relieve pressure/ stretch play. You would expect attacker coming on at that time fresh to run and dominate the zone near corner flag in opposition's half thus prevent other team to play out. Not more than half of the time turn his back & pass back to the players behind in his team's own half.

 

[Red_toad]

As Ibra said about Messi and Ronaldo, Martial is natural, Rashford is trained. There are not many players with close control that Martial has and it is just selective memory loss when people try to put Rashford above him.

If the game was on pure talent, Rav would be playing in our midfield. But it's about application, following the managers instructions, being disciplined and dedicated to your profession.
The one thing I have never seen from Rashford is him failing to put in a shift, plays wherever he's asked to and gives 100%. No wonder Jose loves him.
Martial may have more natural talent, but he's going to have to apply himself better. On current form, he's not in the same league in terms of actually effectiveness on the pitch as Rashford and that's what all players should be judged on.

 

[Bubz27]

Turbulent summer last year that went completely against Martial.

His recent positive words about the fans give me hope that a proper summer off and a proper pre-season and we can see him back to his best next year. He could be perfect to get those 15+ goals from the left we've lacked this year.

I hope he gets that chance, and then it's up to him to take it.

 

[Mockney]

What annoys me the most about this is that out of all the players it just had to be Martial who doesn't have a good working relationship with Mourinho for whatever reason. The most talented player in the squad who should have contributed much more this season.

He's now had one high confidence season looking like a world beater, and one low confidence season looking like he can't beat a man to save his life. The idea that only one of them should count towards an appraisal of his quality is how we ended up putting too many of our eggs in the Januzaj basket.

He's undoubtedly got a high ceiling, but the idea he's the most talented player in the squad seems very generous to me. Pogba, for all his faults, has at least looked the biz for more than one season.

None of us knew who the feck he was when we signed him. We now have fans turning on the manager because he's failed to inspire him to a decent second term. It all seems a bit misplaced to me. At some point it's got to be at least partially down to him.

 

[breakout67]

Nonsense. Headless chicken is when where overstepping other players position when leaving your own zone. There is a lot of space a fresh pacy attacker to attack. He simply lacks off ball movement to lose his marker and run into this space helping relieve pressure/ stretch play. You would expect attacker coming on at that time fresh to run and dominate the zone near corner flag in opposition's half thus prevent other team to play out. Not more than half of the time turn his back & pass back to the players behind in his team's own half.

When someone thinks Martial did his job perfectly in this game then you know they are beyond reasoning. He started off slow and then became better with time. It was an ok performance.

It is the hallmark of being wrong when someone doubles down on their position when presented with evidence that goes against them. Rashford is given the most time as a wide forward despite not scoring or assisting very much; this tells us that wide players are expected to do other things first. He is playing out of position and outperforming Martial as a wide forward when being a wide forward is Martial's preferred position.

But, some fans do not want to admit that their golden boy is not meeting the manager's demands so they concoct up a fantasy world where Martial's preferred position is as a striker despite his attributes being best suited to a wide forward and his most common movements (receiving the ball and running at the fullback or right sided defender, cutting inside into the box) suit a wide forward. Martial's heatmap for most games is in wide areas; he does not occupy central areas very often.

Martial has the ability to do what is expected of Mourinho from his wide players, he is an intelligent footballer that can make intelligent runs and combine with central players (for example when he scored against everton in the FA cup) but it is not instinctual for him. Guardiola challenged Aguero to contribute more to the team earlier this season and I saw a clear change in Aguero's play. Aguero is also known as being unenthusiastic in training but he applied himself and became a more rounded player. Aguero is a Citeh legend but Guardiola was not afraid to ask him questions.

 

[Ali Dia]

I wonder when we were signing him,did Monaco think we were definitely taking the best young player from their squad for an offer they couldn't refuse or were they happily taking as much money as possible and wondering why we weren't actually going for someone else in their team? Especially given the success they've had without him anyway. Was he really that highly rated there or are Monaco just getting good at marketing their players (through good football mostly) He came out of nowhere but it sounded like all the big clubs were sniffing around too. Big clubs are probably in for most of their other exciting players now too though. It seems they've bought and coached really well over the past few years.

I hope Martial doesn't turn out to be another LVG signing that just doesn't work out. if he goes on to star for us in the future he'll almost be the exception in that respect (I'm giving him rojo and martial) .... LVGs transfers were all over the shop in hindsight.

Martial looked really talented last year but in our worst side for ages. We are going to improve either way with or without him. Let's hope he can get back to having much more influence on games next year. I think he can still be an important player for us and a dominant player in the league next year. Shaw can too. It's up to them if they really want to buy into what the coach is doing. If they don't they'll eventually be sold though ....

 

[Insanity]

Decent outing. Needs to take his chances now that Ibra is out. Him and Rashford are our only legit goal scorers with Mata and Ibra out.

 

[SaboTaj]

A few weeks back it did seem like he was back on track and on the cusp of some good form, but his confidence levels seem to be fulcutating like a sine-curve with larger than usual troughs.

With Zlatan most certainly out for the remainder of the season, hopefully Mourinho can work his magic with Martial too like he has ostensibly done with Mkhitaryan and Shaw.

 

[Natener]

What annoys me the most about this is that out of all the players it just had to be Martial who doesn't have a good working relationship with Mourinho for whatever reason. The most talented player in the squad who should have contributed much more this season.

That may well be something entirely driven up by the media and our own fans. I saw Jose animatedly talking to Martial during the ET halftime break. Looked to me like he was giving him a pep talk than having a go at him and Martial seemingly took to it quite well given his attitude during the 2nd ET. The fact that the manager is willing to give his time to specifically motivate a single player says a lot. Jose clearly wants more from Martial which I agree with because he is certainly capable of so much more. But the angle of player and manager not getting along here?Nah I don't buy it.

 

[Nighteyes]

Was perfectly fine when he came on. Not great but certainly not lazy. Guess we'll have to wait Jose to praise him before some on here stop being lazy bandwagoners.

Cheers. Does seem like he does cover a lot less ground, then.

Need last season's stats for a true comparison.