I would be well up for 4-4-2, Herrera RM (tucking in) Martial upfront instead of Lingard, with Rashford upfront. Martial nearly grabbed a goal but was rued offiside after a good run. He also went on a few mazy runs and showed something that our other attackers don't possess. I think he laid on a chance for Pogba as well. I wouldn't write him off. He is quicker than Jesse, far better dribbler and finisher. He is just lazier
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
Seems like a no-brainer to find a way to get your two most skilful young players on the pitch but Lingard's movement is key in creating the space for Rashford to exploit. He's a much better foil for Rashford because of this.
I like him a lot but think he's got a big problem in the summer as Jose I think will buy 2 attacking players. He clearly likes Lingard, Miki showed his quality already in Europe, Rashford (enough said), Mata has had a superb season and I fully expect Ibra to stay for another season. Add 2 more forward players, that's a problem for Martial as all the above have contributed and he hasn't this season....
Mourinho keeps going on about 'trusting players'.....which he undoubtedly does with Rashford to name one. The evidence suggests he doesn't trust Martial, not in the way he probably really wants to, which makes me think, that with the number of games left seriously running out and with the stats seemingly against him, he most likely won't be with us next season.
Think he scores 1 more goal we have to pay £10 million or something like that, play him left back for the remainder of the season!
At least he won't be caught out of position because he never runs on the pitch.
To be fair Pogue you cited his reduced tackling as evidence of him trying less. When I asked for the stats there was no reply. Having checked myself there's 0.1 per game difference between last season and this.
So are we sure there's a marked difference between last season and this in terms of difference covered?
His ex girlfriend said something like, 'Manchester United got into his head'.
What if that 'one more goal' is the final match of the Europa League tourney? The top four hopes have been dashed. It's Lyon looking strong. United has been against the ropes for 60 minutes. Lyon is one man up. Going into extra time would surely finish off United. Martial picks up a pass from Miki at the half way line. A chance for a counter attack. Martial runs at full flight. He beats, the first defender, and then the next two. He dribbles the goalkeeper and scores! United wins the trophy and qualifies for next season's Champions League!
Wouldn't that goal be worth 10 million pounds?
I discovered the tackles stat on a different website. Which just has a single figure for "Tackles", without breaking them down by won and lost. This season he's made 11, last season he made 21. Admittedly, the "per 90" metric would have been more useful. Mind you, Mikhi has made 21 tackles already this season, despite playing a similar number of minutes. So you can see how he's earned his way back into Mou's favour and how Martial could do the same.
What if that 'one more goal' is the final match of the Europa League tourney? The top four hopes have been dashed. It's Lyon looking strong. United has been against the ropes for 60 minutes. Lyon is one man up. Going into extra time would surely finish off United. Martial picks up a pass from Miki at the half way line. A chance for a counter attack. Martial runs at full flight. He beats, the first defender, and then the next two. He dribbles the goalkeeper and scores! United wins the trophy and qualifies for next season's Champions League!
Wouldn't that goal be worth 10 million pounds?
just imagine eh?....
But the argument is this season vs last. So the per 90min metric isn't just more useful it's actually the only fair way to compare. Especially when he's played much less games.
Same goes for distance covered. Does anybody have the comparison for this season to last?
Been doing some googling and discovered an article in the S*n from last October which compares the Liverpool and United team in terms of distances covered. We do really badly, needless to say. Fellaini is the only United player who makes their XI.
What's really interesting, though, is this bit.
That's interesting, for two reasons. First of all because Martial's effort at that point in the season was fecking diabolical but also because both him and Lingard have increased their efforts by an additional 4km/game between then and now, to 9.16 and 12.04 km/game respectively. Which is, at least, encouraging.
This is a pure example of people following into a bandwagon and mixing themselves in anything trendy. It's the "IN" thing to criticize Martial right now and call him lazy, so every single details and aspect of his game is over scrutinized in order to found something that would validate these "lazy" claims.
People now digging stats that wouldn't and shouldn't matter in order to keep this trend going is what's happening. Martial probably had the same stats last year in regard to his court coverage but then it wasn't a cool thing to label him a lazy passionless clown. It's the hip thing these days, so you get all these nonsense thrown around.
Wouldn't the per 90 min figure be more useful and telling stat than a per game figure given I imagine both Mane and Coutinho had more minutes? Or am I reading it wrong here?
I guess making a lot of substitute appearances will mess up your "per game" distance. Fair point. Not by much over the course of a season, I'd have thought?
It would make a big difference I think. Not just about coming on as a sub but if you get taken off as well. Mane and Coutinho are pretty much regulars in the team where as Martial and Lingard often come on or get taken of by the hour mark. The stats you quoted look terrible for us probably because they're very misleading. We can't be that lazy as a team not under Jose.
This criticism about distance covered is one of the most pathetic argument thrown out there in order to slate a player. People relating distance covered to willingness and being arsed is an absolute joke. Some people just want to have a go and come up with this stuff. I'd like people to start analyzing distance covered by most top attacking outlets in leagues across Europe and let's see how many more hundreds of miles they cover compared to their teammates.
This place can be bloody awful when people have set an agenda.
This place can be bloody awful when people have set an agenda.
Pretty much this.
That's not particularly worrying at all tbh. The three pressing teams are at the top but those aside the difference is minimal on a per game basis.
Do you have the latest stats though? Chelsea are at the bottom as well in that. Be interesting to see if that's improved.
Dude, I've been seeking out stats like a maniac all morning. Can you share the legwork?!
Haha I'm lazy as feck when it comes to digging out stats.
As has already been said in here numerous times. His best moments last season came playing on the shoulder of the last defender or drifting into the box from the left. I don't think he's a player who'll get up and down the touchline making tackles or running half the pitch and scoring. He's not that kind of player. Couple that with the fact opposition teams know his game better now, our team isn't set up to suit his style anymore, the stupid number row, the ex girlfriend stuff, the fact his manager doesn't trust him in the big games and then he's also woefully out of form and confidence when he does play.... it doesn't look to too good for him all things considered. He's a good footballer though and Jose is a good manager. They'll reach a compromise if Jose really rates him as much as a lot of our fans do. What a huge fee to pay for someone who isn't starting most games or even constantly pushing for a place in the first 11. Our business model is pretty horrible at the minute. There's been so much waste.
I liked what I saw. Started slowly, then kept on getting better. Performance was a little like last years, where he just waits and then bursts ahead with pace.
I see a lot of people complaining, but he has not been played a lot and so took some time to get going. I think a lot of people were disappointed seeing his work rate after being subbed on, but he is not an all action, full of running kind of player at all, so expecting him to press and hassle is a little unfair. He usually becomes active after receiving the ball. Until then, he generally holds his position.
Overall, don't think it was a bad performance at all.
He will definitely get more chances now, because Rashford will have to play as a striker now, not a winger, and so Martial will more opportunities to play the full 90 minutes and we can form a proper judgement of how he has progressed.
I see a lot of people complaining, but he has not been played a lot and so took some time to get going. I think a lot of people were disappointed seeing his work rate after being subbed on, but he is not an all action, full of running kind of player at all, so expecting him to press and hassle is a little unfair. He usually becomes active after receiving the ball. Until then, he generally holds his position.
Overall, don't think it was a bad performance at all.
He will definitely get more chances now, because Rashford will have to play as a striker now, not a winger, and so Martial will more opportunities to play the full 90 minutes and we can form a proper judgement of how he has progressed.
The context is different. Last season we had fewer options, this season we have Ibra and Mhikitaryan. Also maybe LVG wanted something different. All that is relevant is the current manager wants him to play a certain way and he isn't. How is this difficult to understand?
If your boss asks you to deliver A but you keep doing B because the previous boss was ok with it, you'd get fired.
"Manchester United defender Eric Bailly covers 7.99 km per 90 minutes on average
A host of his team-mates are among the league's least mobile players, including Phil Jones (8.89km), Zlatan Ibrahimovic (8.95km), Anthony Martial (9.16km) and Chris Smalling (9.21km)."
Or ... maybe, just maybe .. those of us who state it are stating it based off what we're actually .. you know, seeing? And the stats are backing us up.
But yep, lazy bandwagoner Caftards, that's what we are.
Dumb post.
Edit: Please excuse the overly sarky d*ckish tone of this post. I had a pounding headache and it was pre-caffeine for me. I stand by the underlying sentiment, but am not happy with how I stated this.
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Is it an agenda though? Why would it be? We have all seen what the guy is capable of, and we all want him to get back to that. Why would we have this agenda where we don't want him playing well? Basically, what we are seeing is a lack of application. This is also what we're hearing (implied) from comments by the manager. The stats are backing this up - whether you like it or not, your wide men in this day and age need to be doing more running than your centre halves, or your 35 year old target man type striker. Especially if you're not giving the end product, which he hasn't been this year.
If you're talking about top attacking outlets in leagues across Europe ... you need to pick ones who aren't performing well. Because if guys are scoring, they'll keep their place in the side. The big issue here people have is that Martial doesn't play enough. And the fact of the matter is, if he's not producing with regard to assists / goals, then the next thing you have to look at to keep his place in the side is his workrate. This is where he's then falling down, and this is why the likes of the less talented Lingard, and the equally talented Rashford are outstripping him and keeping their places.
When you have been playing games every 3/4 days like we have then surely you would expect your players to run less per 90 mins than teams that are only playing games every 7/10 days . Losing Zlatan and Rojo will only add to this .
If you were Burnleys manager you would be wanting to play non stop for 90 mins as our players will definitely feel the heavy legs around the 60/70 min mark .
Going to be tough going these last few weeks , enjoying it though .
If you were Burnleys manager you would be wanting to play non stop for 90 mins as our players will definitely feel the heavy legs around the 60/70 min mark .
Going to be tough going these last few weeks , enjoying it though .
Zlatan's injury opens up his chance to again reclaim his position if Rashford plays center forward the rest of the way. Upto him to improve his work rate and get back in the managers good graces.
Martial really needs to take this chance. We could potentially go for Martial and Rashford as a front 2 with a counter attacking set up
Felt a tinge of excitement seeing both Rashford and Martial celebrate the last goal. Felt like last year when the pair were creating headlines and I had the feeling that we were onto something special.
Things have not gone quite as expected but now both of them have a chance to play together, once again, for a significant run of games, driven by Mourinho this time instead of LVG. I hope both perform well and cement their places in the team.
People calling him lazy are misguided. He is the type of player that conserves energy and releases this energy in quick bursts. Hazard and Ronaldo are similar to him in this way. And just like Hazard and Ronaldo Mourinho expects Martial to make more movements to help the team. Distance covered is not that important for a wide player; it is the type of distance.
Mourninho while managing at Real Madrid criticized Ronaldo and Ozil in front of their teammates several times for not working for the team enough. Mourinho due to his pragmatism made Ronaldo the focal point of the team, favouring Benzema and Higuan to do Ronaldo's running and Ozil was almost always substituted if Real Madrid were in control of the game with 20 minutes to go.
The problem here is that Martial does not have anywhere near the talent of Ronaldo and is in a squad with other players with similar talent levels such as Pogba, Ibra, Rashford, Shaw, Mata. Pogba is always looking to create for his teammates; Rashford is always moving intelligently off the ball to stretch the defence, Ibra was dropping deep to help midfielders and coming back to defend set-pieces (I think the league cup final put too much stress on him, ever since then his overall contribution has been bad).
Martial cannot be carried on this team because we are not in a good period for the club and we cannot wait for Martial to develop other aspects of his game. Mourinho cannot develop Martial because he is under huge pressure to deliver; so he uses players like Rashford that are giving him what he wants and letting Rashford develop other aspects of his game slowly.
Mourninho while managing at Real Madrid criticized Ronaldo and Ozil in front of their teammates several times for not working for the team enough. Mourinho due to his pragmatism made Ronaldo the focal point of the team, favouring Benzema and Higuan to do Ronaldo's running and Ozil was almost always substituted if Real Madrid were in control of the game with 20 minutes to go.
The problem here is that Martial does not have anywhere near the talent of Ronaldo and is in a squad with other players with similar talent levels such as Pogba, Ibra, Rashford, Shaw, Mata. Pogba is always looking to create for his teammates; Rashford is always moving intelligently off the ball to stretch the defence, Ibra was dropping deep to help midfielders and coming back to defend set-pieces (I think the league cup final put too much stress on him, ever since then his overall contribution has been bad).
Martial cannot be carried on this team because we are not in a good period for the club and we cannot wait for Martial to develop other aspects of his game. Mourinho cannot develop Martial because he is under huge pressure to deliver; so he uses players like Rashford that are giving him what he wants and letting Rashford develop other aspects of his game slowly.
Martial needs to step up for the rest of the season now, no excuses. We need more goals from everyone and him in particular.
Like our play was catered to get the best out of Zlatan, may be Jose should cater our play to get the best out of Martial instead of trying to hone him his way, at least for now. He scored 17 very important goals for us last season, carried us for the most part, and is one of the only legitimate proven goal scorers in the squad. Time for Jose to unleash him. As well as time for Martial to stand up.
Any two striker formation using two of Martial, Rashford and Rooney should be the way to go now, imo.
Any two striker formation using two of Martial, Rashford and Rooney should be the way to go now, imo.
This, basically. It's not how much he runs that's the big issue here. But since he isn't performing for various reasons, the lack of effort is what some choose to highlight as the main problem.
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That would be rather shortsighted on our part because we will still need to do business with Monaco again, likely this summer.
Wonderful post.
I don't know, I think you're severely underestimating Martial by assuming he needs a team to carry him. He's shown himself to be more than good enough to justify a starting position, and we desperately need him to rediscover that level, pronto, if we are to salvage something from this season. Even if his movement isn't top notch, he's good enough with the ball at his feet to make up for it.
I really, really hope he steps up. He's a wonderful talent, but you feel that if he doesn't do it now, there's a good chance we won't be seeing him fulfill his potential here with us.
Martial showed everything mourinho wants under LVG. He doesn't look half the player this season in his effort and determination at times. Only a few games this season has he really shown it, the home game to Watford I think it was? Mourinho rightly praised him for it but since then he's gone backwards again.
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