Wow. Martial last season seems underrated then.
9
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- Appearances
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Most of the analytical posts seem to be manager vs Martial. It is up to the manager to get the best out of his players and play them in the right positions. Obviously the players need to put in the effort, but as good as Jose is, the man isn't perfect. The likes of De Bruyne and Lukaku will forever hang over his head, and I have no doubt that Martial will go on to become class for another club if he leaves. But if it doesn't work out here then perhaps that is best for all parties, then jose can go and buy a specialist winger to replace him, because i'm tired of watching him and Marcus struggle to beat people out wide while hugging the line.
Mourinho;s in charge...
...if a player doesn't carry out his instructions to a tee, then that player should be shown the door. It doesn't matter if you, me, your ma, your da, your auntie, Gary Neville, Jamie Carragher or even Mouirnho think that player is uber talented. If he can't do what the manager needs from him in a certain position, he's not good enough. See Kevin De Bruyne and Juan Mata as perfect examples. They couldn't carry out what was required in a certain position and - despite Mourinho knowing all too well how brilliant they were in terms of ability - he didn't ned them. Good ridance.
I see similar happening with Martial.
...if a player doesn't carry out his instructions to a tee, then that player should be shown the door. It doesn't matter if you, me, your ma, your da, your auntie, Gary Neville, Jamie Carragher or even Mouirnho think that player is uber talented. If he can't do what the manager needs from him in a certain position, he's not good enough. See Kevin De Bruyne and Juan Mata as perfect examples. They couldn't carry out what was required in a certain position and - despite Mourinho knowing all too well how brilliant they were in terms of ability - he didn't ned them. Good ridance.
I see similar happening with Martial.
What Jose said about Martial is what I said here before. Martial has talent no doubt but he needs to combine it with hard work rate and strong mentality on the pitch to convince Jose of playing him. Till the moment the only thing he did when coming of the bench is to prove Jose was right of benching him and favoring Mikhi , Rashford and Lingard on him.
SAF got rid of many players who were better than Martial himself for things far more important than just having talent. Jose doesn't have an agenda against the kid but he wants him to up his mentality and fight for his position like other players.
SAF got rid of many players who were better than Martial himself for things far more important than just having talent. Jose doesn't have an agenda against the kid but he wants him to up his mentality and fight for his position like other players.
Martial talked about it himself three times iirc, in interviews with RTL, RMC and SFRsport.
Needs to work harder and not give up so easily when things are not going his way on the pitch.
Its very simple
Its very simple
I used to support the players over the managers when Moyes and LVG were here but not this time. I'm with Jose on this and the shaw situation - either Martial and Shaw put in the effort or they can leave and I won't even care too much.
I'm sure Jose is working on him and will release him back into the fray when the time is right.
Perform or get moved out. Nothing wrong with that
Given both Mkhi and Shaw have come out and said it was them that needed to do more and it wasnt unfair treatment, you'd think people would think its the same here with Martial as well. He's a huge talent but talent alone isnt enough and he needs to put in the work to get into the team. I'm absolutely with Mourinho on this one, we've had pussies playing for us far too long. Either put the work in and give it your all or feck off.
It'd genuinely be a shame if his incredible potential is never realised due to a lack of effort.
I'm still a bit confused as to what Mourinho was trying to say
"He has to show me things that I like"
"He has to come in my direction"
"He has to show me things that I like"
"He has to come in my direction"
do as he's told
Maybe Mourinho asked him to improve or change aspects of his game and he is disappointed by the current results. It could also simply be tactical instructions.
And as evidenced by Jose's press conference today, it's because Martial doesn't do what is asked of him. This is what I, and many in here, have been saying for quite some time. The fans just automatically assume, when a player they love is left out, that he's being treated unfairly etc. It's all well and good for us to watch a match and think that a player is doing well. But perhaps he's not doing well in relation to the whole concept of the team that the manager has laid out.
If he's not following his instructions the way he's supposed to, then it's up to him to sort it out. We've seen from Jose that when players do that, they get their chance. Mkh, Shaw has come back in etc. Martial has still been given numerous chances this season. It's up to him. He can either sulk (in which case, get rid in my opinion) or he can man up, do what's asked and flourish.
It's phase 2 of fans fickleness in regard to players they previously loved. Now they're trying to convince themselves and everyone else that said player wasn't even that good anyway.
I'm actually surprised it took this long for someone to start on this path.
This has been discussed over and over again and it's getting tiresome tbh.
End point is that Mourinho is hard man to please, he asks for magnificent performance just from Martial and when he performs, he get's dropped.
Real hard to take anything he says with blind faith especially after BFS fiasco.
Let's put this discussion to rest.
Agree to disagree. Carrick was better than Scott Parker when the latter got into the team of season. It's no fact that Parker was better than Carrick. Nor Kyle Walker over Zabaletta. Coloccinni getting into team of the season because he is the outstanding in a team who concede goal left & right
What's getting tiresome is people assuming he performs well and gets dropped. As stated, he is clearly not doing what Jose asks of him. Others have been criticised, blatantly learned from what they were doing wrong, and have come into the side. Martial hasn't. And is being called out for it.
But, let's stick with the narrative that Jose has something against a player he clearly thinks can be a special talent.
What's the evidence of this ? How many good performance Martial put this season anyway ?
'He has to come in my direction'.
He doesn't run back towards his own goal enough.
Pretty simple.
But a rather big adjustment for forward-thinking players.
Let's hope he gets there in the end.
He doesn't run back towards his own goal enough.
Pretty simple.
But a rather big adjustment for forward-thinking players.
Let's hope he gets there in the end.
I remember posting something on this board and I meant to say "reaping the reward" but I kept writing "ripping" and the mods caught on it then gave it as my tagline.Funny, isn't it?
Btw, how did you get the tagline "ripping the reward"?
Since then I actually like it
There was a period where Martial did indeed get dropped after performing well.
From the top of my head he was dropped after his MOTM performance against Boro and missed the WHU game. Then there are those cups performances against Reading, Wigan which didn't get him selected for the next games
Jose already replied on him rested in WHU game that he agreed with Martial to not play this match as it came 48 hours after the Boto one.
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...-united-v-reading-fa-cup-third-round-tie.aspx
For the cup games , he already returned because of them later on to the starting XI against Watford and played 3 games in a row as a starter ( Watfors , Saint Etienne and Blackburn ) , rested for the Saint Etienne away game before returning to the line-up in the EFL cup final and played 90 minutes , then played the Bournemouth game as a starter too. Not to mention he played as a starter in some big games already this season , against Arsenal , Spurs and Liverpool at home so I'm struggling to see how he was dropped unfairly.
People need to stop with that nonsense, there is a lot more than that in football. Mourinho's problems could be with how Martial plays in attack.
If we're gonna be utterly literal about his comments then "my direction" is towards the dug-out. So he needs to make more horizontal runs. But only in one direction.
It more than likely is, hes a bit static off the ball
It means that Martial has to have to desire to improve himself like Rashford clearly is. Ask Mourinho what he's doing wrong and what he needs to improve, work hard on aspects of his game he isn't getting right. I totally agree with Mourinho now because it's clear as day.
If you take a look at Rashford, last season I would have never thought he'd be a threat from outside of the box because we hadn't seen it yet. This season his long shots look powerful, accurate and controlled. He has clearly been working on this, and his freekicks. He has clearly been working to constantly improve himself because of his desire. At Old Trafford against Arsenal I believe it was he let the Ox go outside him and deliver the cross that secured the Arsenal draw. Now look at the Anderlecht game where Rashford tracked all the way back to our own goal line. He's clearly been working hard.
It's not just about Martial's tracking back though either, because his tracking back is actually OK. When Martial loses the ball he sulks, he stands there. When he should be pressing he doesn't. When he should be making a run he doesn't. Rashford does, despite being less talented. Rashford's been adding more to his game while Martial has stagnated. It's OK to lose form in your second year but he has to at least show the desire to improve. That is what Jose wants. If he doesn't then bin him after a few seasons.
feck him
This 100%.
When Rashford makes a mistake he works hard and tries again. When Martial makes a mistake he sulks.
How dare you talk sense in the Martial thread! It's all about Jose holding Martial to different standards than the rest don't you know?
I would like us to sign an experienced LW and loan him back to Monaco if he doesn't improve for now. He may get games, his spark back, plus he'd be playing CL for a good team. it will be better for his development than being on the bench and all the beef with his manager. At the very least he can get some form and prove he still can be a star, but without all the Jose challenges (which I don't think he is up for). Then he will still maintain his transfer value if he needs to be sold. Sevilla is another option
Scholes said he was a freekick specialist from the youth teams and said "wait till we see them, he hits them like Ronaldo." I believe he already had it in his locker but remember Van Gaal was fussy about when they were allowed to shoot.
Monaco won't take anyone on loan, they have better things to do.
Or just make better off ball movement in attacking phase...
I think I remember it different. Scholesy was talking about Rashford all around game at time where people was assuming Rashford is just fox in the box, offside breaking type of forward. He's decent dribbler, have good range pass, can put some wicked cross, can take freekick...
That's simplistic and not true. He's actually decent at protecting his FB. His biggest problem is that he simply doesn't run when the ball isn't at his feet.
My apologies, still though the point still stands and I don't recall him making many long shots early in the year.
Personally I'm totally fine with whatever Mourinho does with Martial. We are not party to the abundance of advice and reports the coaches give Mourinho.....or what the manager himself sees in training. We only have a revisionistic view of last season....or what we see (mainly on the caf on the TV) of what he does on matchday. There are plenty of players who have had a great season...then faded out for multiple reasons. People say he's more talented than Lingard or Rashford.....but as a team player and taking instruction...I would say those two are three steps ahead of him at the moment.
I bet Martial was gutted to see Lingard start in that position on Sunday! He'd have loved the chance to start in a front 2 actually up front!
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