9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
I do hope to see Martial and Rashford partnership attacking duo before transfer window...
Don't think that the comparison with Ravel is fair. Bar his youth perfomances, Ravel never shone in the big stage. Last season Martial was our best player and probably carried us through alongside phenomenal DDG. We got to see the glimpses of what is a potential to be a legitimate Balloon d'Or winner one day.
Mourinho can't be discarding a player of his potential just because he isn't reacting well to his army drill sargeant approach and isn't his type of winger. In all honesty he's a striker that's playing winger. We all saw what Rashford did when played in his favorite position.
I think Martial is an extremely talented player; I’d love for him to improve and be one of the best players in the world in his position while playing at United. But, it is important for me to remove any emotional connection I have with the player when I want to analyze his situation at the club. Instead of imposing my own pre-conceived notions of how football should be played onto the team and analyzing the game as if I’m playing football manager, it would be better to try to understand the manager, his tactics and approach to the game and go from there.
Most managers at the top level utilize a spine of players to achieve the important things within the game; goal-scoring, creating goal-scoring opportunities, preventing goal-scoring opportunities. Chelsea have Costa-Hazard-Kante, Tottenham have Kane-Erikson-Wanyama. It seems to me that Mourinho targeted Pogba and Ibrahimovic specifically to improve the spine of the team, Pogba to create and Ibrahimovic to score. Both of these players are performing their roles within the team and are central to the team winning games so it is reasonable to play them after a few bad performances.
You see the approach clearly from the way Conte has played Costa; he is struggling for goals and has been horrible in holding-up the ball or linking up with Hazard but he is still played by Conte. I think this is because Costa in the first half of the season was consistently bailing out Chelsea with goals from nothing; Conte identified Costa as their primary goal-threat. It would be madness for Pochettino to drop Kane or Erikson after a few bad-to-average performances so I cannot criticize Mourinho for doing the same with Pogba and Ibrahimovic.
When it comes to wide players different managers expect different things. Conte and Pochettino use their wide players as attacking outlets and use two work-horse midfielders to provide balance to the team. Mourinho utilizes wide players to provide balance for the team and central players as attacking outlets. When Pogba is looking for a pass or Ibrahimovic drops deep, he expects his wide players to make runs along the wings or behind the central defenders. When Pogba vacates the midfield he expects the wide players to either act as an extra body in midfield or as an option in central areas. Mourinho expects his wide players to read the game and act accordingly.
When watching Rashford and Lingard play on the left, I see a clear difference between them and Martial. Most of the time, Rashford and Lingard are making runs or being an option in central areas whereas Martial is almost always getting the ball at his feet in wide areas and running at defenders. Pogba is our creative outlet and usually plays on the left side of midfield; so our left-sided forward will have to adapt to Pogba’s movement in order to provide balance. I am not surprised that Martial is expected to do extraordinary things to justify his place in the team; he leads to an imbalance in the team. Martial is more talented than Rashford or Lingard but his off the ball movement is worse; Mourinho prioritises off the ball movement with his wide players.
I think that Mourinho sees the talent in Martial and that is why he is played regularly; but he isn’t played through bad-form because when he is in bad-form he contributes nothing to the team where as Rashford and Lingard provide balance when they don’t have their shooting boots on. Martial is not the correct profile of player for a Mourinho wide player, similar to Hazard and Ronaldo. But Hazard 2 seasons ago was a man possessed and Ronaldo is Ronaldo. I only see two things for Martial next season; he steps up his game like Hazard did or he gets fazed out of the team. Martial was a deadline day signing by LVG; it is not fair to expect Mourinho to place a higher prioirty on him than his own signings like Pogba/Ibra or local players like Rashford/Lingard.
Most managers at the top level utilize a spine of players to achieve the important things within the game; goal-scoring, creating goal-scoring opportunities, preventing goal-scoring opportunities. Chelsea have Costa-Hazard-Kante, Tottenham have Kane-Erikson-Wanyama. It seems to me that Mourinho targeted Pogba and Ibrahimovic specifically to improve the spine of the team, Pogba to create and Ibrahimovic to score. Both of these players are performing their roles within the team and are central to the team winning games so it is reasonable to play them after a few bad performances.
You see the approach clearly from the way Conte has played Costa; he is struggling for goals and has been horrible in holding-up the ball or linking up with Hazard but he is still played by Conte. I think this is because Costa in the first half of the season was consistently bailing out Chelsea with goals from nothing; Conte identified Costa as their primary goal-threat. It would be madness for Pochettino to drop Kane or Erikson after a few bad-to-average performances so I cannot criticize Mourinho for doing the same with Pogba and Ibrahimovic.
When it comes to wide players different managers expect different things. Conte and Pochettino use their wide players as attacking outlets and use two work-horse midfielders to provide balance to the team. Mourinho utilizes wide players to provide balance for the team and central players as attacking outlets. When Pogba is looking for a pass or Ibrahimovic drops deep, he expects his wide players to make runs along the wings or behind the central defenders. When Pogba vacates the midfield he expects the wide players to either act as an extra body in midfield or as an option in central areas. Mourinho expects his wide players to read the game and act accordingly.
When watching Rashford and Lingard play on the left, I see a clear difference between them and Martial. Most of the time, Rashford and Lingard are making runs or being an option in central areas whereas Martial is almost always getting the ball at his feet in wide areas and running at defenders. Pogba is our creative outlet and usually plays on the left side of midfield; so our left-sided forward will have to adapt to Pogba’s movement in order to provide balance. I am not surprised that Martial is expected to do extraordinary things to justify his place in the team; he leads to an imbalance in the team. Martial is more talented than Rashford or Lingard but his off the ball movement is worse; Mourinho prioritises off the ball movement with his wide players.
I think that Mourinho sees the talent in Martial and that is why he is played regularly; but he isn’t played through bad-form because when he is in bad-form he contributes nothing to the team where as Rashford and Lingard provide balance when they don’t have their shooting boots on. Martial is not the correct profile of player for a Mourinho wide player, similar to Hazard and Ronaldo. But Hazard 2 seasons ago was a man possessed and Ronaldo is Ronaldo. I only see two things for Martial next season; he steps up his game like Hazard did or he gets fazed out of the team. Martial was a deadline day signing by LVG; it is not fair to expect Mourinho to place a higher prioirty on him than his own signings like Pogba/Ibra or local players like Rashford/Lingard.
So you say he shouldn't be compared to Ravel because he shone for us last season, when he was playing out wide, but your excuse for him not performing this season is because he's playing out wide? Martial has had one good season for us, the verdict on him being a flash in the pan is still completely up in the air, he won't be the first or last player to look like a world beater and then amount to nothing, assuming he takes that path, of course.
Also no, we saw what Rashford could do because he works his bollocks off. I am just about convinced Rashford will have a much better career of the two, he has the talent and the mentality to back it up. This hand around the shoulder rubbish is nonsense, he's 21 years old, not a child ffs. He's a grown man and he doesn't exactly look the giddy type, fecker never laughs. If he's old enough to drink and pay taxes, he's old enough to stop expecting to be treated like a child. Players with such piss poor personalities won't take us anywThese same excuses use to be used for Nani constantly, all throughout his career here with us and I was Nani's biggest fan so I use to believe it, but he never changed, it's rubbish. Players shouldn't need their managers to hold their hands and make them feel loved, that's what their fecking trophy wives and Ferraris are for. If he wants a career of being groomed and told how lovely he is, he can join Wenger at Arsenal.
As has been discussed, his Monaco manager was on his case for a lack of effort too, so he needs to pull his socks up or as many players have shown in the past, talent isn't enough to cut it in this sport. He's talented but as Neville told Shaw, if you don't want it, it's not going to happen.
No, my point is that he should be given the same amount of trust from the manager. I'm sure you're aware that Martial has been treated differently.
Part of the reason SAF was so great and successful is due to his ability to use different approach on different personalities.
I'm not aware, he's been shit so he hasn't played as much, it's that simple. You can harp on about Lingard etc. all you want, but Lingard offers what Martial doesn't, movement off the ball, closing down and high intensity, he might not be as talented but when Martial isn't using his talent it really doesn't mean shite. Martial when he's out of form is completely useless, offers virtually nothing. Rashford has been played more because it's obvious he has the much better mentality of the two, as a result Jose has taken a liking to him.
I'm a big fan of Martial, but people have made every excuse under the sun to excuse his performances, he's been underwhelming and it's his fault, not Jose's, not his ex-girlfriend's, not his daughters or his new trophy wife, only his.
Throw your mind back to the start of the season, he was shite but Jose stuck with him, he didn't improve. He was shite towards the end of last season, at the Euros and the beginning of this season, unless Jose called him and was feckin with him while he was in France with the NT, I struggle to see how he is completely responsible for his form.
We are Manchester United and in the crunch period of the season, we don't have the freedom to nurse players into form, play well or wait for your opportunity and take it when it arises. Martial isn't Messi, he doesn't have a divine right to play.
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You can't in all honesty say he hasn't been treated differently? Public criticism, asking for magnificent performances in order to get a spot in the squad, being dropped inexplicably when he was just getting in good form.
Also when Mourinho criticised our entire attack vs WBA, only Martial haven't got to start since then, and was completely dropped from the squad.
Obviously I know that style of play Rashford and Lingard possess is more to Mourinho's liking but he needs to change his approach in order to get the best out of every player. Drill sargeant approach doesn't work with everyone.
She sent a picture (of Saitama) with writting in french "you're blaming me for not playing but I'm not Mourinho"....
First I've heard of this. Worrying, if true. Anyone got any links?
Dunno about that but I do know she liked the picture of #9 shirt with Ibrahimovic written on the back.
He has publicly criticised a large portion of our squad, basically called our whole attack shite, Ibra included (by claiming he's also bottled a huge amount of chances this season). A manager in expects his player to play to his full potential shocker. Martial is more talented than Lingard etc, so it's only normal he'd be judged to a higher standard, expecting him to perform to the standards expected is nothing different from what any other manager would expect. You're having a laugh if you think SAF would have accepted a talent of Martial's calibre to half arse the effort he put in. When was he dropped when getting back into form? I can genuinely think of two or three games this season in which he hasn't been bad, which were both followed by more dire performances. Managers are always going to opt for players they trust when things are going rough, just go back and look at SAF with Nani and Valencia, SAF with an elderly Scholes/Giggs etc.
Also, you have literally no proof that Jose is opting for the drill Sargent approach with him, just like you are just assuming Martial wouldn't react well to that. For all you know Jose has tried everything, some players just don't respond to anything because they don't give a feck, not even SAF who you keep referencing could get through to every player. He was getting berated for treating Shaw in a similar fashion and Shaw has come out twice now and said Jose was in the right.
Also it seems Jose isn't the first manager to have these problems with Martial, are they true? I don't know, none of us know anything that's going on behind the scenes, all we know is he's been underwhelming and it's completely acceptable for a manager not to play a player who isn't performing.
She's not exactly an unbiased source of information is she though? Is it not possible that he believes his situation with his daughter is affecting his mindset and she's trying to make it all about herself? None of us know what's really going on so it's just speculation. It's harsh to judge him based on what his ex says.
And you did it explain what his choice of girlfriend has to do with his ability to perform on the pitch?
Actually he publicly praised Zlatan after his shocking games, up until last week when he criticised whole attack after the Anderlecht game.
IMO public criticism is bad both for the player and for the manager, and also kinda brings the shame to the club as it appears our manager can't keep his things behind the closed door.
If public criticism, saying he needs to be magnificent just to get into squad whilst at that point when manager said so, no other winger bar Mikhi was performing any better and getting dropped after good matches isn't tough/love aka. drill sargeant approach, Idk what is tbh.
Idk about other cases of managers criticising him tbh, provide me with some articles if you will but you have plenty of examples in EPL of managers playing to their player strengths instead of trying to change them.
I'm saying this because I'd hate seeing us lose yet another talented player like that only to see him performing for another club.
I'm disapointed with him, and it's true that I'm a bit sad because he's not improving. The truth is that Martial has a mental block that make him the player he's today. And my point is that when you're mentally affected (not only by his daughter, but also by his Euro with France, the pre season he hadn't and the fact that Mou is not hugging him) you have to turn attention to your GF
Her GF is not the kind of girl that give him attention or will tell him stay in MCR, fight for your place etc. So what he does ? He just moans and say that this is other's fault.
I know personnaly (he's my former coach) Monaco's reserve coach, and he new Martial well, so I had few infos of him and his behavior.
He's not a fighter, even Remi Garde argued with him at Lyon.
Deschamps allegedly criticized his attitude too, saying he was blessed with a god-given talent but didn't work hard enough. Maybe those were just rumors, but I distinctly remember reading about it somewhere.
How many times has he gone out of his way to criticise Martial? He's been asked questions and asked them only a few times, at most. If criticism from your boss is considered tough love for you, you must have a very easy life pal. We don't know how he's treating Martial off the pitch, for all we know he has tried everything and nothing has gotten through to him. As I said, Martial is much more talented than those players he's competing with and it's obvious he only said that magnificent shite because at his best, that's what he is and when he's not, he offers very little, if anything, compared to his competition. Lingard could play like crap but would still close players down, chase balls and make runs, Martial will stand idle and wait for the ball to his feet, that's the difference between the two when off form. Whether or not it makes the club look bad, I really don't give a feck, no-one likes us anyway, I love when others hate us and I hope under Jose we can get back to being hated again.
I don't have articles but a @Chaky_Best claimed as much. Thus why I didn't use it as fact but simply questioned it.
Claiming arguably the greatest running manager of our generation should adapt his tactics to a 21 year old who has achieved nothing in his career and for all we know could amount to nothing is laughable. He's young, he himself doesn't even know what kind of player he is yet and if Jose who is known for expecting determination doesn't take a liking to him, that's not a good sign. For all the talk about Jose hating youth you just have to look at his faith in Rashford. A manager can't implement a tactic that gets the best out of everyone, some players are going to have to improve/adapt their game.
If he leaves I'd be upset too, but we're Manchester United, we've lost far better and replaced them. We have the resources and platform to continue doing so.
He's had a very poor season and he fully deserves to be criticised. Martials' performances are long way short of last seasons.
The fact that you don't recognize any other approach other than "iron fist" as a viable approach is very worrying. Plus the fact that you seem unable to comprehend that we're not all alike, some people get motivated by criticism whilst other crumble under it, and by the looks of it Martial for all his talent is in the latter group. By your standards he's less of a player if he can't deal with that sort of criticism by the man that's supposed to trust in him and get the very best from. him
I don't know if you had the opportunity to train and live some time as a footballer. Those people are giving up so much from their early days, experiences, socialising and many more. Simple things as going out, partying, drinking and stuff.
Plus kid's had it tough his gf with whom he has a kid left him, he got stripped of his shirt number, had terrible EURO and manager seems not to have patience for him at all.
They aren't as hardened like the rest of us. Ofc there are exceptions but very few of them.
Ik we're financially strong and have power to rectify our mistakes but wouldn't it be great that for once we actually don't go and make that mistake to begin with?
With all respect to Chaky_Best but I'd like some articles to confirm those stories.
JM:
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No, what I'm simply saying is basing your whole argument around the fact that Jose is being mean to him when there's literally nothing to suggest anything of the sort is questionable. Also, they still do those things, just in moderation, as do all working individuals. His girlfriend left him because he cheated on her, if him losing his number has anything to do with his form, then he really isn't going to make it here, his terrible Euros was down to him and if Jose didn't have patience for him he wouldn't be expecting more, he would have given up on him and deflected like he did with Morgan and Depay.
Also, you're assuming it would be a mistake, he will have numerous chances to prove himself, if he doesn't thats on him.
But I have provided you with facts...which you keep ignoring. Basically if Mourinho doesn't break his leg or shot him dad, than that ain't no tough love.
Again I didn't say anything about his ex being the reason of him underperforming, that was someone else who said it. It's his fault she left him as you said. I'm saying all that on top of harsh treatment he's getting isn't helping him perform any better.
And yeah I genuinely believe he will be a world beater in a different system, as it was hinted by his last season's performances under LVG.
That sounds like a failure on Mourinho's part as much as or possibly more than it is Martials. You can't have a one size fits all approach to motivating every player. If Mourinho has gave Martial regular bollickings in an attempt to get the best out of Martial and they haven't worked, then it's obviously time to try a different approach. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is foolish.
Ferguson used to purposely have a go at Wes Brown even if he wasn't playing that badly as he knew after a bollicking he would play better. On the same token i read recently that Ferguson never shouted at Nani because he knew it would have the opposite affect and make him go inside his shell, so with Nani he took a softer approach.
You have to tailor your man management to the player.
This is normal in football. Nothing to worry about mate. One talented player leaves a club and thrives elsewhere. It's called chemistry. If Martial lacks it with his manager or coaches, or team mates or the fans or even the city of Manchester, then he'll likely be off sooner than desired and with his talent, he'll likely thrive elsewhere. Falcao thrived at Atletico Madrid and Monaco but flopped at United and Chelsea. He's back in his habitat, Monaco, and he's thriving there now.
I'm guessing most fans want Martial to stay because of his skills but if he lacks the chemistry with Jose and United, he'll just have to move on. Someone else with a similar chemistry challenge elsewhere may come in to replace him and find United to be the perfect fit.
Yeah I agree. Different players require different approach and different setup. Some players aren't good fit with some managers and it's the way it is.
Telling him he needs to be better in the press, something he's done to the majority of our squad and opting not to play him because he's been shite isn't tough love, that's how football works. The same way SAF would bench Nani when he was under-performing, the same why Ancelotti benched Costa who wasn't performing, Klopp with Sturridge etc. Like i've said countless times, you don't know what he's attempted with Martial off the pitch. That harsh treatment is self-inflicted, so Jose should play him despite the fact he's been poor due to a mistake he himself willingly caused?
He has no agenda against Martial, if he didn't like Martial he would have sold him or frozen him out completely, deflecting like he did with Depay and Morgan, players he didn't rate and wanted rid of. Many a player has proven this season that even if Jose doesn't rate you, you can get back into his good books. Not to add, Jose does rate Martial as he was playing constantly at the beginning of the season, so there's no reason for him to be treating Martial differently. He just hasn't been performing, as a result hasn't been playing.
Which story mate ?
The fact that Deschamps criticized him https://le10sport.com/football/angl...hamps-lance-un-avertissement-a-martial-273378
Or the argument between Martial and Jardim http://www.eurosport.fr/football/li...i-27-minutes-plus-tard_sto4372227/story.shtml
The penny will drop with him eventually. The club won't be letting him go easily/cheaply because of the investment, so it's work harder or don't play.
I for one agree he's definitely "lazy" at times, he could be so much better and dangerous. His first season he worked really hard but something has been different since then.
I for one agree he's definitely "lazy" at times, he could be so much better and dangerous. His first season he worked really hard but something has been different since then.
This seems to have gone under the radar somewhat but it's a fantastic post and I find myself in complete agreement.
The only thing I can add is that I can't help thinking that Martial's reputation is based on a few great goals and the odd fantastic game amid a huge number of disappointing performances, but the disappointments aren't memorable in the way that the genius is. Much like Januzaj, who also scored some amazing early career goals that gave him a lot of leeway with the fans and manager who forgave him for an otherwise unproductive season.
Mourinho pretty much wants effort from Martial. Makes it crystal clear from his press conference.
You remember him being dropped inexplicably after having a good performance?
You can keep telling yourself it is just the same the other managers are ski,which really isn't true for the most part. Probably only exception being Klopp and Sturridge.
I don't think he has an agenda against Martial but it was pretty clear he dont fancy him.
Idk Womp mentioned you got some stories regarding criticism Martial was getting from his ex managers.
I don't speak French unfortunately, can understand some of it but not all.
What performances? Also, if he didn't fancy him why would he still be giving him starts here and there, talking about wanting him to improve and not completely freezing him out. You seem to think everything Jose does is some sort of 5 step plan, when it's simple. If a player performs, he plays. If a player isn't performing but works his socks off, he plays. Whether or not he criticises him publicly, which managers have been doing for years, doesn't change any of that. The fact that he's criticising him in public goes to show he expects better from him.
Do you see him criticising Rooney? No, even though it's obvious he's not in his plans.
Middlesbrough, Stoke, Reading or Wigan and few more can't remember them all.
Actually only once he's been given a run of 3 games, and that was at the start of the season.
Jose Mourinho has accused Anthony Martial, Marcus Rashford, Jesse Lingard and Henrikh Mkhitaryan of showing no consistency after Manchester United were held to a goalless draw by West Brom on Saturday.
So, Martial has been treated differently by being publicly criticised the same way ... Rashford, Lingard and Mkhitaryan have been?
He hasn't been treated differently. Not in the slightest. Jose has been brutally unfair on all his players at times, apart from Ibra and Pogba. His wide players have all been criticised.
Januzaj and Martial are not comparable. Januzaj was most involved during Moyes' first season. He had 4 goals and 6 assists in 35 games (or 2.090'). Martial last season had 18 goals and 11 assists in 56 games (or 4.663').
Sure, Martial had quite a few frustrating matches, but all flair players suffer form this. For example in all his seasons at Chelsea, Hazard only has 1 season where he tops Martial's last season in terms of total output and that was his first season under Mourinho. Martial's overall productivity last season for a wide forward was top notch, by any standard.
Different games require different tactics, apart from Pogba and Ibra who are our most important players, everyone else will be rotated accordingly, especially when that player is in dire form. Good performances against Middlesborough who are probably the worst team in the league and Reading who are championship being his only memorable performances this season for you speaks volumes.
He's only been given 3 starts once this season? Wonder why that is.
He criticised all of them yet Lingard, Rashford and Mikhi still went on to get starter spots or were coming off the bench, whilst Martial got 10-15 minutes against Sunderland and 25 minutes against Anderlecht.
If you say to Martial "you can only get in the squad if you perform magnificently" after which he performs and you still drop him from the squad for subsequent matches. How is that not being treated differently?
I understand that different matches require different tactics but if you say something, stand by your words. Both Rashford and Lingard were quite bad in the span of few months around new year yet they kept getting picked.
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So there it is in black and white. He isn't carrying out his managers instructions well enough.
No coincidence Jose finally came out with that now, after our last game, when he showed how successful his instructions can be. His hand is strong now.
People moan about him publicly airing it, but this way there is no bullshit. Fans and media want to know what's going on so there it is.
I absolutely trust JM to get the best out of Martial, just depends on if he's up for the challenge.
Do people think he should be starting despite not pulling in the same direction as his manager?
No coincidence Jose finally came out with that now, after our last game, when he showed how successful his instructions can be. His hand is strong now.
People moan about him publicly airing it, but this way there is no bullshit. Fans and media want to know what's going on so there it is.
I absolutely trust JM to get the best out of Martial, just depends on if he's up for the challenge.
Do people think he should be starting despite not pulling in the same direction as his manager?
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