Fair enough mate, and yeah redcafe is a place where bizarre opinions on a wide range of topics can be found on a consistent basis. In truth i think thats part of the reason its such a good forum.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
Fair enough mate, and yeah redcafe is a place where bizarre opinions on a wide range of topics can be found on a consistent basis. In truth i think thats part of the reason its such a good forum.
He's had a very disappointing season, looked completely disinterested when he came on last Thursday.
Are there any stats comparing his distance covered when compared to last season? Not a fan of calling out players as lazy with nothing to back it up.
I think his poor form started 1-2 months before the end of last season actually, but his semi final goal sort of covered up the cracks.
Madness.
15th and will be behind Lingard and Romero after the next game, with a strong chance of being behind Young/Darmian or both in a couple of games time. Don't think he'll be here next season with Mourinho looking to strengthen in attack, Martial being firmly behind our other current attacking options and next year being a World Cup year so will want to be somewhere he'll likely play a lot.
I think for the most part, next season we won't care as we'll do well in the league etc. but there'll be that element of "what if" things happened differently for him here with Mourinho.
Even if he says run less I don't think it's pure laziness but more to do with discontentment/ feeling left out / not enjoying a good relationship with the manager. Given his excellent tracking back and defensive work last season I doubt he suddenly decided he didn't give a feck anymore.
I've got the impression most times he's played that he isn't very interested. Always looks like he's sulking and would rather be somewhere else. If he worked his arse off and showed some heart I would question Jose leaving him out, but that isn't the case, so I see no reason to blame Jose, especially after what we seen against Chelsea where we witnessed first hand the attitude that he demands from his players. The manager wants hard work and the right mentality first and foremost, hence why Lingard and Fellaini have become regulars and why Martial has found himself a bit-part player. I've no complaints with building a team in that way. If Martial wants a future at United he'll have to work his bollocks off. If not, we'll replace him with someone more deserving of wearing our shirt.
Whatever it is I hope Jose and him sort it out for next season. He's such a huge talent that it would be a shame if doesn't work out.
Fickleness is really a real thing.
Doesn't get any funnier than seeing the same people who last season were praising Martial and making him a bit of a "cool" hero because of his ice and cool demeanor whether he scored or not yet now things have turned a bit sour for him this season, people are using his same natural demeanor as last season as a stick to beat him with.
God knows which other unlucky player currently being praised might find himself at the end of harsh criticism for the very things people are raving on about if he ever found himself having a bit of a hard time.
Doesn't get any funnier than seeing the same people who last season were praising Martial and making him a bit of a "cool" hero because of his ice and cool demeanor whether he scored or not yet now things have turned a bit sour for him this season, people are using his same natural demeanor as last season as a stick to beat him with.
God knows which other unlucky player currently being praised might find himself at the end of harsh criticism for the very things people are raving on about if he ever found himself having a bit of a hard time.
Wonder if his form this season is related at all to him and his Mrs splitting up at start of season? He's only a young lad after all.
Completely agree.
Look in the O.Dembele thread and so many people say they'd happily swap martial for him! Ok dembele looks brilliant but Martial was incredible last season and is still very young. He has had some great games this season as well but it's clear he's been off the boil.
Give him a bit of time he was brilliant last year and he will be brilliant again in the future.
I'm a serious geek when it comes to dates, transfer fees, etc so for me to have got it wrong the year we bought BFS tells me how little he's impressed me. It was clear to most footballing fans that we signed him well after his peak, he didn't look solid to me at all, he had one or two good moments, as all players past their peak will do. Wayne Rooney, Michael Owen, for example have scored some memorable goals, contributed in big games, but at a very inconsistent rate because they were well past their best. BFS came into the PL with no PL experience, and to me looked well off the pace of the English game. One or two good games where his natural talent shone through, but overall a very disappointing signing.
Mourinho has rightly identified this.
You've gone way off topic, this is about Martial. The comparison between BFS and Martial is a stupid one, Martial is nothing like BFS in terms of age, mentality or commitment. I don't even know why you would bring BFS into it.
I'm guessing Herrera - "he is rash and a walking red card"
Jose doesn't seem to like introverts. He wants his players to have fight coming from within themselves. Not only after he has intervened. Martial and Shaw seem to have these characteristics.
One word: Anelka. A potential Ballon d'or winner turned to ...
All the talent in the world won't help you if you're not committed.
Not saying this is it for him but it could be. It's up to him to show us what he is and so far this season he hardly shows it and people rightly call him out.
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You are spot on.You want to have real fun, read the:
- Wouldn't swap him for Messi thread - where posters wouldn't have replaced him for Messi because of United's tradition of buying young players and developing them.
- Read the Scholes punditry thread when he mentioned that Martial doesn't seem to have that drive to become a striker. The posters, mad at the time with anything Scholsey said, came down heavy on him for having the gall to suggest that.
Not read all 187 pages of the thread, but I haven't seen many criticising his demeanour as much as his performances. He's just not delivered in most of the games. No performances or goals really stand out, unlike last season. I always felt the praise directed his way last season was premature and overboard. In the summer, while a lot of people were questioning the need for buying Zlatan given we had Martial and Rashford, I posted saying that he could go either way. Several young players have sparkled initially in a poor team and then just fizzled out for assorted professional and personal reasons.
On Martial, I think it's disturbing. You read consistently about great players and people in other fields too who block out grave tragedies when it comes to putting in a shift. Yet, for almost the entire season, Martial has been off the boil (massively) and people seem to think it's because of his personal life. That's not a great pointer towards mental strength. Add to this his poor performances (and also visible lack of effort in several games) and it's easy to see why people are frustrated. Talent is nothing without application. Look at Morrison, Ravel (rated once by our own and also by Fergie as among the most promising youngsters in world football) for an example of how talent can go down the sh*tter when you lack the mental fortitude to deal with life.
He's dating a brainless reality tv girl.
It's only showing what kind of person he's.
He's currently blaming his ex for his poor displays.
Martial has nothing in mind, he just want everything easy. He has the ability, but he hasn't got the mind. He had issue at Lyon in young age, the same at Monaco. These guys don't want to work.
He should just look at Lingard. A less talented player, but who has a brain is playing ahead of him.
It's only showing what kind of person he's.
He's currently blaming his ex for his poor displays.
Martial has nothing in mind, he just want everything easy. He has the ability, but he hasn't got the mind. He had issue at Lyon in young age, the same at Monaco. These guys don't want to work.
He should just look at Lingard. A less talented player, but who has a brain is playing ahead of him.
I have heard he has reacted badly to Mourinho's approach of army sergeant rollockings for players who don't give their all. Rather than rise to the challenge, Martial has become introverted.
Read Mesut Ozil's new biography for a taste of how Mourinho likes to bark at certain players to get the best out of them. If you rise to the challenge, you become Ozil-like (and he was AMAZING for Real under Jose) or you rebel and become Hazard (Hazard didn't take kindly to Mourinho's rollickings last year) and stop having an effect on the team. It looks like Martial has taken the Hazard route.
This is not good for Martial.
Manchester United aren't Chelsea...players don't hold the power and a manager won't be sacked because a player wants him sacked. Mourinho will be here long-term, Martial won't. Not if he doesn't give 100% to Mouirnho.
Read Mesut Ozil's new biography for a taste of how Mourinho likes to bark at certain players to get the best out of them. If you rise to the challenge, you become Ozil-like (and he was AMAZING for Real under Jose) or you rebel and become Hazard (Hazard didn't take kindly to Mourinho's rollickings last year) and stop having an effect on the team. It looks like Martial has taken the Hazard route.
This is not good for Martial.
Manchester United aren't Chelsea...players don't hold the power and a manager won't be sacked because a player wants him sacked. Mourinho will be here long-term, Martial won't. Not if he doesn't give 100% to Mouirnho.
Martial did the same at Monaco with Jardim.
Jardim didn't played him for some games because Martial wasn't training good enough. He called him off the bench at 50th mins, and the subbed him 20 mins later. Why ? Because Jardim said publicly that Martial didn't wanted to work.
It's happening again, the guy doesn't stand the competition for places and is arguing here and there.
I love how you're trying to spin it around when you're caught guessing, whilst actually you're the one that have gone completely off topic here and you were the one that initiated the whole BFS discussion, pulling just part regarding BFS from my comment.
On the contrary BFS is valid comparison. The question was would Mourinho ice some player out with no apparent reason and BFS was a very good one. He decided he didn't want him around before he even joined us, only later to admit he was wrong.
I reckon if it comes to us selling Martial, I can imagine Mourinho saying "I treated him unfairly and too harshly compared with other players".
Now I'm not saying that he hates Martial or that he already had his mind set about him on his arrival (which given BFS example is entirely plausible) but he's been holding him to different standards than the rest of the players and being way too harsh on the kid
IF this is true then wtf does our scouting network do?
This just shows what we already knew - youth development isn't one of Mourinho's strengths. You can't have the same approach for different personalities. He as a manager needs to identify which player reacts to army drill sargeant and which reacts to arm around the shoulder approach.
Also Hazard was already setting the world on fire before Mourinho came back to Chelsea. In 2 seasons under Mourinho he reached new highs and new lows.
They can write everything from "on his days, when he applies himself, is top prospect" to "he doesn't work enough". Our manager is the one who give final call.
No he didn't. He was inconsistent as hell. Mata won Chelsea PoTY with little competition from Hazard despite Hazard's high ceiling.
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Mata won the POTY but Hazard was already doing what he's doing now, going on the mad runs, just sliding and gliding past the defenses. He even contributed with an odd goal and an assist here and there.
It's his game to dribble chip in goal & assist, but he was very inconsistent. Not better than the like of Oscar back then. He is now carrying huge role for Chelsea attacking play. Back then he just have part role, where Mata has bigger role. Failed to get counted in bigger games.
Of course he was. He was the team of the year that season ffs
We're off topic here, after all it's Martial dedicated thread. Martial is a type of player that IMO reacts best with "the arm around the shoulder approach".
I was following his career from his early Lille days because I wanted him here.
He was very good at Chelsea when he first joined, and he managed to fit in and do his thing being a newcomer.
Later he added scoring and assisting to his game which have took him even higher. Counter attacking style of Mourinho brought the best from him.
In midfield 4 with Mata Bale Hazard Carrick...
The lack of proper central midfielder and they picked another attacker. If there is one proper midfielder, do you think he could make it over Mata or Bale?
I have followed key Ligue 1 game for decades. I also knew Hazard in Lille shirt. As I said his natural game always like this. His goal scoring improved under Mourinho, but not much. What significantly improved is how he can carry Chelsea attack which in his first 2 seasons (yes, even into Mourinho's first season), he's not consistent enough.
In midfield 4 with Mata Bale Hazard Carrick...
The lack of proper central midfielder and they picked another attacker. If there is one proper midfielder, do you think he could make it over Mata or Bale?
There's a reason he was picked in that team. Obviously he was too good to be left out.
I don't get it with Martial. His talent is undeniable: excellent close control and overall technique combined with pace and power. Doesn't he himself feel that he should be performing much better?
Not really. PFA team is not always good indication of how good player is. The previos season has Collocini, Kyle Walker (he was not that good back then), Scott Parker in it despite there are some better candidate in it. It's like a Miss contest for footballer popularity. Most of the time there is a feeling that something is not right. There is certain bias for attacker in their pick.
Back to Martial, again... Needs to man up, no excuses anymore.
I believe @JPRouve said something similar to this, worrying signs. He's an incredible talent, but if his head isn't in it, don't think he'll make it here. You just have to look at Ravel, some players just don't want it, no matter how gifted they are.
Responding to posts above, please keep on-topic here, everyone. It's the Martial thread.
@Fracture90 @ti vu please can we keep this on topic.
Bloody @Penna Mrs Rapido!
Keep on-topic, please.
You can't just conveniently dismiss a very good indicator on how good a player was that season just because you don't agree with it. I'm sorry but those are the facts.
Can't really be bothered discussing why or why being in EPL TOTY is or is not a good indicator of players quality.
Fact stands he was in EPL TOTY, and he had 10 goals, 14 assists in total is a great return for a newcomer.
As I said we're way off topic.
Where has he done this? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions on his personality, do you know him personally or something?
How do you form a conclusion on his personality based on who his girlfriend is?
Ashley Cole was married to Cheryl Cole, another tv personality, does this take away from his ability to perform on the pitch?
- Status