[Roboc7]

So did Fellaini but now he's starting.

Exactly fellaini doesn't deserve to start either if that is the way players are treated. If there is a good offer for martial in the summer he is gone, when you can't even make the bench with that line up you are in trouble.

At the end of the day Jose doesn't like Shaw and martial, unless they are in top form he isn't interested, Shaw played well in his last game and it hasn't made a difference.

 

[Red Devil 26]

Interesting and somewhat depressing situation.

I do know I value players like Martial and what they offer at their best over the type of football (including his decisions) Mourinho brings to the table.

I'd rather follow a club with players like Martial.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he left in the summer. Wouldn't be a shortage of suitors that's for sure. In the mean time we can take comfort in having tied down Lingard for the foreseeable.

I rather Mourinho go, if the alternative is stockpiling mediocrity and showing players with genuine ability the door.

 

[DatGuyRich]

Martial has done feck all this season. He deserves to be banished to the stands.

His performance on Thursday was as bad as Fellaini's against Everton a few months ago.

Forget last season, he has been a waste of space this year.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Doesn't really deserve to be in the squad after that performance vs Anderlecht.

 

[Raoul]

Therein lies my point of certain players not matching up well with certain managers. Mourinho has gotten it wrong with young forwards historically. Evidence points to this being another of those cases.

I see nothing about Martial's play this year that suggests he should be starting. If he can't convince the manager to the contrary with his efforts in training then he shouldn't start.

 

[El-Manos]

feck me, I am very sick of these comments "he's definitely gone" each time the likes of Shaw, Martial, Mhikitaryan don't start

 

[Dante]

He played off Rooney last year. Being a wide-forward behind a false 9 is totally different to being a winger alongside a targetman.

Without a forward dragging away defenders for him, Martial simply doesn't have the movement to do it on his own.

Martial can dribble and finish. That's pretty much his lot. He's not a great passer, he's not a great crosser, he's not a tireless runner, he's not good at making late runs into the box. There's nothing about his game that's more suited to playing out wide than up front. I think the position he's playing in (and the role he has in this team) is stifling him. Dropping him today was a no-brainer.

 

[Skills]

What did he do to get dropped again, after he finally got a run (and looked decent) a few weeks ago?

 

[VP89]

Therein lies my point of certain players not matching up well with certain managers. Mourinho has gotten it wrong with young forwards historically. Evidence points to this being another of those cases.

This is a good point (and concerning if true).

At the same time though, Martial shoulders a lot of responsibility for his form. We can't just blame Mourinho by default when the player looks like he can't beat a one legged man.

 

[Attila]

What on earth has that got to do with what you've quoted?

He hasn't weakened the bench by leaving martial off it. If we need attacking players off the bench we have Ibrahimovic and Mkhitaryan avaliable. He has to think about having cover for the other positions on the bench too not just having loads of attackers on it.

 

[Brwned]

I see nothing about Martial's play this year that suggests he should be starting. If he can't convince the manager to the contrary with his efforts in training then he shouldn't start.

It's not that black and white. It's the managers job to get players playing well. It's a collaborative effort between the two of them, with the player taking more responsibility, but the idea that the manager has no role in that is silly.

 

[Kag]

There's obviously a reason other members aren't "punished" for that. Whether you want to speculate it's because of Mourinho's vindictive nature or Martial's laziness and complacency is purely dependent on where your biases lie as there's almost no useful evidence to go off.

Well, there must be. I think it's because there is an expectancy that Martial does more, in part due to his capability. It's why the likes of Fellaini get off the hook (and rewarded with a start) even in spite of actively losing his man in our biggest game of the season. You can be complacent as long as you're not that talented, it seems.

 

[Ali Dia]

Agreed

Martial should be starting and starring in these games given last season performances.

Jose should be able to get the best out of our best players but obviously what goes on in training and behind closed doors is anyone's guess. It's the managers job and reputation on the line in matches like this and he's going to go with the players he trusts

There's not really any right answer ,just the result

 

[Raoul]

It's not that black and white. It's the managers job to get players playing well. It's a collaborative effort between the two of them, with the player taking more responsibility, but the idea that the manager has no role in that is silly.

He can't force anyone to play well. That bit comes from deep within the player - their heart, desire, work ethic, and aptitude for improvement. Some have it, some don't.

 

[PepsiCola]

I see nothing about Martial's play this year that suggests he should be starting. If he can't convince the manager to the contrary with his efforts in training then he shouldn't start.

You can say the same of Lingard, Rashford, Young, Fellaini, etc for the whole season. None have shown good form.

We don't know what goes on in training. But I don't feel i can put much value in Mourinhos words when discussing a young forward.

 

[Kag]

He hasn't weakened the bench by leaving martial off it. If we need attacking players off the bench we have Ibrahimovic and Mkhitaryan avaliable. He has to think about having cover for the other positions on the bench too not just having loads of attackers on it.

We have five defenders on the field, with a further three on the bench. We also have Carrick who can play in a three man defence.

Our squad is weaker for not having Martial in it. That's a fact.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Bye bye Martial! It was fun while it lasted. I hope you kill it wherever you go making Jose realize how badly he handles young talented players.

 

[Dinghy]

We've probably seen him for the last time in a United-shirt if he can't get a game ahead of Lingard and Young while we are rotating in the dying weeks of the season. If we're one goal away from having to pay £8mill in add-ons we're probably right in not playing him. £8million should just about cover Lingard's wages for a year...

 

[Skills]

It's not that black and white. It's the managers job to get players playing well. It's a collaborative effort between the two of them, with the player taking more responsibility, but the idea that the manager has no role in that is silly.

Theres a lot on here who think the managers job is literally just buying the players and putting them out there. What they do on the pitch, improving them, and essentially managing them (you know the job title) is beyond his scope of responsibilities.

 

[Raoul]

You can say the same of Lingard, Rashford, Young, Fellaini, etc for the whole season. None have shown good form.

We don't know what goes on in training. But I don't feel i can put much value in Mourinhos words when discussing a young forward.

Few of our player have all year. The difference is, the ones that are playing today have likely shown a bit of initiative in training to warrant their selections. It's obviously also a bit of a one off with the EL fixture looming so we may see AM then.

 

[Skills]

Bye bye Martial! It was fun while it lasted. I hope you kill it wherever you go making Jose realize how badly he handles young talented players.

Won't effect Mourinho. He'll have moved on from here too anyway. See De Bruyne, Lukaku etc. It's the club that will suffer.

 

[Brwned]

He can't force anyone to play well. That bit comes from deep within the player - their heart, desire, work ethic, and aptitude for improvement. Some have it, some don't.

Sure. However there are lots of players that do have it thar are mismanaged by players and temporarily lose it. De Bruyne, for example. Managers being unable to get the best out of their most talented players is a regular thing, and its one many clubs regret further down the line. The idea that the manager plays no role in the process is bullocks and you know it Raoul. It might be Martial's fault, it might be Mourinho's, it might be both. There's nothing you have to go off to suggest Martial doesn't have "it". Other than an obvious and longstanding bias towards Mourinho.

 

[acnumber9]

And? We don't need three defenders on the bench. This is an important part of the season and our manager seems more concerned with playing games with certain members of the squad.

Fellaini is starting today, of course, even in spite of not bothering his arse to track back the other night.

We have two attackers on the bench. That's enough to change things if we need to. If Martial can't be arsed putting the effort in I won't be shedding any tears for him.

Though I agree with Fellaini being a lazy twat on Thursday too.

 

[Dobbs]

He's probably leaving in summer.

And seeing his attitude , I don't really care anymore about his situation at the club.

When you see posts like this you'd think he was out on the piss and not turning up for training.

Probably our most talented player (or up there) dropped from the squad because of an average substitute appearance. It's just silly.

 

[acnumber9]

There's obviously a reason other members aren't "punished" for that. Whether you want to speculate it's because of Mourinho's vindictive nature or Martial's laziness and complacency is purely dependent on where your biases lie as there's almost no useful evidence to go off.

There's evidence that Martial isn't doing it on the pitch. Fellaini playing despite his 'effort' to stop the goal on Thursday could be due to the fact we have less options in the position and he fears Chelsea on set pieces. Bias will play a big part but there's enough logic there to see why he's done what he's done.

 

[Brwned]

Well, there must be. I think it's because there is an expectancy that Martial does more, in part due to his capability. It's why the likes of Fellaini get off the hook (and rewarded with a start) even in spite of actively losing his man in our biggest game of the season. You can be complacent as long as you're not that talented, it seems.

It's entirely plausible that Fellaini actively owned up to his mistake while Martial didn't acknowledge his failings in the game though, right? And if so, it's understandable why a authoritative manager would be more inclined to prefer the former's attitude?

 

[Gbenger]

Doesn't really deserve to be in the squad after that performance vs Anderlecht.

Nonsense or why is Fellani in the squad or even starting considering his fault in the goal we conceded after he came on?

 

[Kag]

We have two attackers on the bench. That's enough to change things if we need to. If Martial can't be arsed putting the effort in I won't be shedding any tears for him.

Though I agree with Fellaini being a lazy twat on Thursday too.

Is it? So Martial couldn't help our cause? Like I said above, we're starting with five defenders, we've got three on the bench, as well as Carrick who can drop into centre half. We're also very good defensively.

We're shite going forward and one of our most talented attackers isn't in the squad out of what appears to be spite. You wouldn't mind so much if it was consistent, but it increasingly looks as if it isn't. Our chances of winning this match today is reduced by having three defenders on the bench instead of Martial. I think it's that clear.

Look, hopefully we win and win well. But what is to be achieved by doing this, short term?

 

[Name Changed]

If we are going to play a shite team, then surely Martial should be playing to maybe help him over this bad run of form?

 

[MadMike]

Doesn't really deserve to be in the squad after that performance vs Anderlecht.

Neither does Fellaini, but here we are.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he left in the summer. Wouldn't be a shortage of suitors that's for sure. In the mean time we can take comfort in having tied down Lingard for the foreseeable.

I expect Monaco to sell Silva for £70m, buy Martial back for £25-30m and turn him into a £70m player in the next 3 years.

 

[prath92]

What makes you think that Martial would have made any difference today had he been on the bench. It's more likely he would have done nothing even if he did come on

 

[mu4c_20le]

Base it on this season then. He's hardly played well barring a few games. Fellaini shouldn't start but he must be listening to Mourinho's instruction, hence why he plays. Albeit he's not very good.

Even when based on his season he has not been that bad. People have a bad impression of him because most of his appearances were from a sub where he couldn't make an impact. But if you look at his basic stats, he has 8 goals 7 assists this season which isn't terrible for a winger. Yes that's right, he's spent 90% out wide, so he shouldn't be compared to the Costa's and the Lukaku's, but to the likes of Pedro and Willian. So from looking at his stats he's been having a bit of a drought since Feb but he's hardly been invisible this season.

 

[Zoo]

I would like Mourinho to clarify his thinking about Martial.

 

[An Irish Red]

He's a much better player than Lingard or Rashford. He's been poor this season but so have those two as well. He doesn't get the consistent chances that they do though.

 

[Dinghy]

What makes you think that Martial would have made any difference today had he been on the bench. It's more likely he would have done nothing even if he did come on

What makes you think Young and Lingard will do much better? Who'd you say has the biggest potensial out of these?

 

[Kag]

It's entirely plausible that Fellaini actively owned up to his mistake while Martial didn't acknowledge his failings in the game though, right? And if so, it's understandable why a authoritative manager would be more inclined to prefer the former's attitude?

That's plausible, yes, but very, very speculative. We're ultimately working with limited information. I just find it frustrating that, yet again, we're not getting the best out of talented players at this club.

It's been four years now and I've just had enough of it. And the only constant within this period is that our managers have been making glaring errors (usually to be defended on here) and invariably get shit results. We've been here before.

 

[Brwned]

That's plausible, yes, but very, very speculative. We're ultimately working with limited information. I just find it frustrating that, yet again, we're not getting the best out of talented players at this club.

It's been four years now and I've just had enough of it. And the only constant within this period is that our managers have been making glaring errors (usually to be defended on here) and invariably get shit results. We've been here before.

The other constant would of course be that our best players have regularly played poorly and occasionally played well. The suggestion that's all down to the manager is very speculative itself.

 

[R'hllor]

If he doesnt plan to stay for long then club shouldnt let JM to feck up with our future.

 

[acnumber9]

Is it? So Martial couldn't help our cause? Like I said above, we're starting with five defenders, we've got three on the bench, as well as Carrick who can drop into centre half. We're also very good defensively.

We're shite going forward and one of our most talented attackers isn't in the squad out of what appears to be spite. You wouldn't mind so much if it was consistent, but it increasingly looks as if it isn't. Our chances of winning this match today is reduced by having three defenders on the bench instead of Martial. I think it's that clear.

Look, hopefully we win and win well. But what is to be achieved by doing this, short term?

It should be. We can only bring three subs on after all. And those two would be ahead of him if we did look to bring somebody on. You were going over the top to make a point.

I understand the desire to have Martial play but can also understand why he isn't. Mourinho is trying to rid the club of this losers mentality we've developed. I am behind that despite rating Martial as a great talent. If he doesn't make it here he has more responsibility for that than Mourinho.

 

[SaradM]

Nonsense or why is Fellani in the squad or even starting considering his fault in the goal we conceded after he came on?

Fellaini was worse I agree but he is playing in a 3 man MF where we don't have enough quality back-up (Carrick can't play 3 in a week and TFM is still raw) but on the left wing where Martial plays, we could easily have Young, Lingard, Rashford and there has been nothing between these 3 and Martial which gives him the edge and a right to start.