He needs the season over to refresh for next season and start from a clean slate basically. You can't say he was hard done by not to be in the team at all based on his last few subs. He'll be fine long term I'm sure, just needs to get the right mentality and desire like what Rashford has. Without it, and with a loss of confidence, you can't even see how talented he is. Happens to everyone sometimes.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
This is the problem with fan & youtuber. You focus on touches than overall game. Rashford can be bad with his dribbling, but even in bad game tactically, his off ball run more often than not helps with stretching team and open space. Even half a yard can be useful for team play. The willingness to press & putting a shift defensively is good too.
And last but not least, attitude, commitment in training too. Things that we don't know.
I just find this baffling.
He was our best player in his first season at 20 years for age. A genuine revelation. Fast forward six months and posters are completely indifferent to him. I just don't get it.
Martial was my favorite player last season, but my goodness people do take things overboard. Just like everyone used to parrot the line that we are Manchester United, not Rooney United, we are also not Martial United.
We just beat the league leaders with the most dominant performance we've put in all season, and so many people just rush to moan about Martial. In all of last season and this season I haven't seen Martial put in the kind of effort that Rashford and Lingard put in today. That's not to say that Martial is lazy per se, but clearly Jose has expectations of his players, and for a player of his ability Martial has not been up to par this season, be it with his effort or with his positive influence on the field. Just because his natural level of talent is higher than say Lingard, that doesn't mean he should be automatically playing over him if he isn't putting in the effort or performances. Our legendary ex-manager made quite a career using players who were not as talented as others, but always worked for the team and functioned as a coherent unit, much like our team did today.
I hope he doesn't leave, and he finds some way to turn this around, but if he doesn't, then so be it. Players come and go. It happens.
And lastly, the endless repeating of "Look at what happened with De Bruyne and Lukakku" has to stop. He replaced them with Costa and Fabregas, and went on to win the league. Lukakku and De Bruyne have accomplished what since he sold them to make him regret it? Lukakku has been good for Everton, but there's no reason to think he would have been any better than Costa. As for De Bruyne, he was good for Wolfsburg and is good for city now, but has he been pushing either team to any major honours like Cesc did with Chelsea? Last I checked he hasn't. Everytime you talk about those two you should extend your thoughts a bit further to how well their replacements did and what exactly the sold players have accomplished since he let them go.
We just beat the league leaders with the most dominant performance we've put in all season, and so many people just rush to moan about Martial. In all of last season and this season I haven't seen Martial put in the kind of effort that Rashford and Lingard put in today. That's not to say that Martial is lazy per se, but clearly Jose has expectations of his players, and for a player of his ability Martial has not been up to par this season, be it with his effort or with his positive influence on the field. Just because his natural level of talent is higher than say Lingard, that doesn't mean he should be automatically playing over him if he isn't putting in the effort or performances. Our legendary ex-manager made quite a career using players who were not as talented as others, but always worked for the team and functioned as a coherent unit, much like our team did today.
I hope he doesn't leave, and he finds some way to turn this around, but if he doesn't, then so be it. Players come and go. It happens.
And lastly, the endless repeating of "Look at what happened with De Bruyne and Lukakku" has to stop. He replaced them with Costa and Fabregas, and went on to win the league. Lukakku and De Bruyne have accomplished what since he sold them to make him regret it? Lukakku has been good for Everton, but there's no reason to think he would have been any better than Costa. As for De Bruyne, he was good for Wolfsburg and is good for city now, but has he been pushing either team to any major honours like Cesc did with Chelsea? Last I checked he hasn't. Everytime you talk about those two you should extend your thoughts a bit further to how well their replacements did and what exactly the sold players have accomplished since he let them go.
A Martial in form would tick all the boxes for our tactics today, but still the reality is that he didn´t play. With the reason not being lack of footballing ability or pace I am suggesting that the reason is more an attitude issue, call it sulking or otherwise.
Best win of the season and he's not even on the bench.
The things Martial has said have been positive so far. Let's hope those turn into actions and he turns this around.
I have to be honest Martial is my favourite player. But he needs to have a real look at himself. His movement when he does not have the ball is not good enough, and he doesn't play with the passion he should.
I trust Mourinho on who to play or not. We are just observers on match day....none of us knows what's going on behind the scenes. Perhaps there is a big attitude problem I don't know, perhaps he is on the way out, perhaps Mourinho just doesn't believe in him enough. This is not Martial United for goodness sake. The players today were exemplary and carried out the managers instructions to a 't'. We won 2-0....best performance from a United team since Fergie's days....without Martial....
I doubt it. Rashford and Lingard will retain their positions after a very good performance today.
I don't think anyone complained about Martial's work rate last season. He used to press from the front intensely and track full backs. He regularly gave good 90 minute performances last season and he had quite a few goals due to his movement off the ball.
My theory is that a lack of pre-season after only a short break in the summer has affected him this season. He has mentioned earlier in the season that he has stamina issues. I have seen him at times panting for breath in the first half of matches. Even after a good first half, I have seen him disappear in the second half of those matches. I sincerely hope that it is a fitness problem with him and not an attitude one. If it is the latter, he would be replaced in the summer.
My theory is that a lack of pre-season after only a short break in the summer has affected him this season. He has mentioned earlier in the season that he has stamina issues. I have seen him at times panting for breath in the first half of matches. Even after a good first half, I have seen him disappear in the second half of those matches. I sincerely hope that it is a fitness problem with him and not an attitude one. If it is the latter, he would be replaced in the summer.
I have doubt on Rashford. He has been starting for 2 games consecutively & probably one of the hardest worker in these 2 games. With Zlatan likely to start, he would play on the wing which requires more defensive responsibility = more work... We have many big games ahead that too. It's not wise to risk him burnout now.
Different tactic. LVG mostly used man marking. No we didn't press intensively. In attacking phase he was to lay off the ball then get into position & wait for the result of build up. Martial was our main attacker last season so LVG could afford to build tactic to accompany him.
Under Mourinho we used zonal defense meaning the player had to understand his responsibility: read the game to pick the right player to track, when to press intensely, when to keep the shape... Now in attacking phase, he's asked to either get involved to carry the ball upfield or constantly making the off ball movement selflessly to help stretch play or even create chance for himself.
Fitness may be an issue in first half of season but not now after he had plenty of rest and training with the team during international break.
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It's mainly to do with his body language, something I find to be a little bit unfair. Especially as he was praised for this very same demeanour all throughout last season. Ice cool, or something. Thing is, he does track back and he does work hard. He doesn't run around with the same intensity as a Lingard, or a Young, but not every player is necessarily like that.
His off the ball movement is poor, though. That was also obvious last season. I remember creating a thread saying as much and got panned for it because, understandably, Martial was beyond reproach. Fair criticism is justified, but comments relating to his passion, commitment or work rate don't really stack up with what we've been watching for the past year.
With how crucial the remaining fixtures are, I highly doubt Martial starts any of them - unless he puts in an exceptional performance as a sub.
He's lost Mourinho's trust in the same way Shaw has. He selected players today that he knew would put in a shift for him and wouldn't disappoint.
He's a brilliant talent and we just need to be patient with him, but now is not the time to risk any player who may put in a half-arsed performance like he did against Anderlecht. There's just too much on the line. He blew it that night.
He's lost Mourinho's trust in the same way Shaw has. He selected players today that he knew would put in a shift for him and wouldn't disappoint.
He's a brilliant talent and we just need to be patient with him, but now is not the time to risk any player who may put in a half-arsed performance like he did against Anderlecht. There's just too much on the line. He blew it that night.
This. I am pretty sure Rasher's will be on the bench against Anderlecht, he needs rest.
This is how it works. A player struggles and all sorts of conclusions are drawn from that. Conclusions posters never considered before.
I don't think there's been a problem with his on pitch work rate this season either. He's just struggled to affect games like he did last year.
Some fans need to understand footballers are different. Martial isn't Rashford just like Ronaldo wasn't Fletcher. I'm not directly comparing Martial to Ronaldo because we know the latter is ultra dedicated on the training field. You've got to show a little flexibility though.
Let's not fool ourselves, Mourinho does have favourites. Hell just look at his undying love for Fellaini and Zlatan amongst the others.
Now the whole conundrum with Martial started when he was stripped of number 9 shirt in middle of his baby-momma drama.
Than those comments from his manager made Mourinho dislike him even more. It's plain that Mourinho doesn't fancy him that much, his treatment of the lad and says it itself.
Also the facts that he was dropped when he was playing good early this year, those comments that he need to be "magnificent" when others weren't exactly setting the stage on fire either.
Mourinho holds him to different standards and in my personal opinion it's down to his not so stellar young player management, but the fact he played Rashford today gives me hope.
Tho I agree he was dogshiit vs. Anderlecht, he was quite good against Sunderland when he came on.
Also one thing that shows that Mourinho doesn't fancy him that much is that he's the only one that's on the receiving egde of the poor attacking performance we had overall vs. WBA. Rashford, Lingard and Mikhi got 2nd got pardoned immediately.
Also that "sulking and bad attitude" excuse doesn't hold since the lad has the same bland look on his face all the time, he even had it last season when he was setting stuff on fire.
That all being said, he also isn't a winger, sure he can do some job when called upon there, but he's essentially a striker and I'd love to see him with Rashford in attacking duo, like they played in some games last season.
Now the whole conundrum with Martial started when he was stripped of number 9 shirt in middle of his baby-momma drama.
Than those comments from his manager made Mourinho dislike him even more. It's plain that Mourinho doesn't fancy him that much, his treatment of the lad and says it itself.
Also the facts that he was dropped when he was playing good early this year, those comments that he need to be "magnificent" when others weren't exactly setting the stage on fire either.
Mourinho holds him to different standards and in my personal opinion it's down to his not so stellar young player management, but the fact he played Rashford today gives me hope.
Tho I agree he was dogshiit vs. Anderlecht, he was quite good against Sunderland when he came on.
Also one thing that shows that Mourinho doesn't fancy him that much is that he's the only one that's on the receiving egde of the poor attacking performance we had overall vs. WBA. Rashford, Lingard and Mikhi got 2nd got pardoned immediately.
Also that "sulking and bad attitude" excuse doesn't hold since the lad has the same bland look on his face all the time, he even had it last season when he was setting stuff on fire.
That all being said, he also isn't a winger, sure he can do some job when called upon there, but he's essentially a striker and I'd love to see him with Rashford in attacking duo, like they played in some games last season.
The professional football is a bitch. I am too old to be a fanboy anymore but i still can't understand how in football some technically far worst players start before much technically better players.
World where fellaini starts every game before scweinie. Darmian before shaw. Darmian before Blind. Lingard before martial. Jones before anybody....
Old man in me knows the answer of course, don't get me wrong but kid in me doesn't. And i guess never will.
I would always play more talented players( and i guess i would lose games 5-3, 4-3, 5-1).
World where fellaini starts every game before scweinie. Darmian before shaw. Darmian before Blind. Lingard before martial. Jones before anybody....
Old man in me knows the answer of course, don't get me wrong but kid in me doesn't. And i guess never will.
I would always play more talented players( and i guess i would lose games 5-3, 4-3, 5-1).
Fellaini's cameo in that game was even worse, he failed to mark his man and we conceded.
How come he got to be a starter today and Martial wasn't even on the bench?
Squad depth in certain area. Martial can't beat Lingard & Rashford for this. Carrick needs this rest. Central midfielder is bare bone in term of option. He started this game due to circumstances not because he's a starter & well ahead of his competition for the position.
And Fellaini was poor in that instance, but other than that he's more involved when he usually had his chance. Martial workrate has been hot & cold. One game he looked like he turned over a new leaf, the next he reverted back into his uninvolved self
Look through my posts if you need to check this, but I'm not one of those that has an irrational need to criticise him. He is possibly the player i enjoy watching the most at our club.
I defended him for a long time this season and said that he needs games and time etc. But i feel that he has been extended those chances by Mourinho and he has let us down. There comes a point where you have to say that if a player is taking this long to find form, then perhaps they aren't cut out for the top level no matter how talented. Hopefully I'm jumping the gun in giving up on him because i do think he's quality, but he has been challenged numerous times already and hasn't come back with a big response yet.
It's a Torres like fall from grace in terms of how peculiar it has been. He finished the season absolutely flying last season but turned up for France as if he was at rock bottom and just hasn't fully recovered since.
Sure he'll return to the match day squad on Thursday and fully expect him to come off the bench. He just needs to put the effort in and take his chance when he gets one.
I specifically remember all those talks of him being ice cool and people drooling over that yet this year with people trying to fit a different narrative, his very same demeanor which was lauded is being used as a stick to beat him with.
Martial has had poor movements ever since coming to us. That was the only thing that was irritating about him last season. He kept failing to run into the box and would rather hold off his runs during some counter attacks. Criticisms about his lack of movement when off the ball are certainly fair but it's quite odd seeing these myths about his application and desire pop up out of nowhere because he's clearly being mismanaged.
In fact every single one of these young players whenever they found themselves going through a bit of rough patches, there always come these stories and assumptions about them having poor attitudes and lacking desire.
Such a lazy way of rationalising things by some on these boards.
Which makes it even more confusing to me. His form has dropped dramatically but I just don't get giving up on a player so soon after they've had a brilliant season.
There are so many young players who've had similar experiences. If you adopt the stance of letting them go this quick you run the risk of missing out on so much talent.
Maybe i don't know, he did decide he didn't like Schweinsteiger before he even managed him so anythings possible.
No not really until recently he was in and out of the side just like Martial. He's been getting more starts since Mata's injury.
Plus both Mata and Mhkitaryan have more starts than Rashford.
Do you know that he decided that before he managed him or it's just your assumption?
He pretty much admitted it himself
In the Premier League, has has the most minutes out of them all. That says a lot. He is the youngest player in the team as well.
The thing with Mourinho is not that he doesn't trust youth, he trusts whoever works hard. There's no two ways about it. Fellaini works hard, he plays, Lingard, Young, Darmian ditto. Martial, Shaw, Mkhi didn't at the beginning of the season and that's why they weren't trusted.
That was the case though wasn't it? Schweinsteiger was considered unnecessary right from the get go.
Well he basically said as much in a press conference the other week didn't he. He said he regretted how he treated him etc.
Fair enough. All I'm saying he had his reasons for BFS, he has his reasons for Martial. I don't think he's that crazy not to see that Martial is talented and he doesn't play him on purpose. Just cause he can do it.
I don't think he just likes Rashford for no reason and doesn't like Martial for no reason either. He sees something in Rashford which he doesn't in Martial. Maybe it's in training, maybe Marcus puts a shift, maybe it's body language, who knows.
He thought Mickhi isn't ready in the start of the season but now he's basically a starter.
I agree with this. As far as I'm concerned, Tony is the best attacker at the club when he's at it. Likewise, I suspect that Jose knows that Shaw is the best left back at the club, when he's at it. Jose's goal is to get these players back at it. The talent is is not in doubt, it's all about the application with Jose. It's what good managers should do, and he's trying to do it.
Yeah time will tell on that one, i hope he starts trusting young players more next year.
But the signs this season aren't great from last season Martial & Fosu Mensah have gone backwards. Shaw has been frozen out for months, and until recently Rashford was not consistently starting.
Yeah rashford might have the most minutes not that that means much in my book to be honest. He's got a lot of minutes due to his ability to play in several positions. But very few of those minutes have came in his natural position.
To be fair mate i never said he came in and made snap decisions on who his favourites are. But over the season its became clear to see he is way harsher on some player than others.
Lingard and Fellaini in his cameo had stinkers on thursday, Martial came on and was awful also. But the former two started today and the latter guy didn't even make the bench when we are short of attackers at the minute.
Maybe Martial has had a bad attitude or isn't training well behind the scenes. But all to often that sort of speculation is thrown around to justify players being frozen out when it's just as possible that his attitude and training have been fine and Jose just doesn't fancy him as a player.
At youth level Rashford often play these wide forward role too if not outright much more than central forward
Yeah i know, but in my opinion his best position will be as a centre forward. Thats where he excelled in the first team last year.
Frozen out .. given that Lingard has played less minutes than Martial, even after his recent run in the side, is it right to say he has been frozen out?
Well i was speaking generally and commenting on people always banging on about attitude and players not training well when a player is frozen out.
Has Martial been frozen out right now? I don't know maybe he'll start 5-6 games before the end of the season, but i wouldn't put money on it.
Maybe not frozen out but if you're Martial right now I don't think you feel like a valued member of the squad. Which can't be good for a young player.
Which is my argument. I think you can motivate a player, drop a player, change their outlook, without ostracising them.
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