[Janson]

@Pogue Mahone @MThomas
So who won the argument? I'm confused. Are we training football or mainly "keeping fitness"?

I haven't really thought about this before, always assumed regular match simulation was a part of it. Would be strange if the manager doesn't pick his starters partly based on training.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

@Pogue Mahone @MThomas
So who won the argument? I'm confused. Are we training football or mainly "keeping fitness"?

I haven't really thought about this before, always assumed regular match simulation was a part of it. Would be strange if the manager doesn't pick his starters partly based on training.

Well the players have talked about how training primarily involves working with the ball and that Mourinho is trying to make them into "complete players" so you can draw your own conclusions. Plus common sense dictates that it would be borderline negligent not to include at least some match simulation in training.

 

[MThomas]

@Pogue Mahone @MThomas
So who won the argument? I'm confused. Are we training football or mainly "keeping fitness"?

I haven't really thought about this before, always assumed regular match simulation was a part of it. Would be strange if the manager doesn't pick his starters partly based on training.

Me, easily imho.

I'm not sure why people consider "keeping fitness" as nothing else than jogging about. The point wasn't really about what type of training it is, if it's 5 a side matches, piggy in the middle or whatever, but the intensity and how competitive it is. Pogue's reference was about "tearing it up in training", my view, and i could be wrong, is that it doesn't really exist any longer and that the only way you can really stand out is if you are utter useless.

 

[MUFC OK]

Must play tomorrow, even if it's off the bench. Could really use his pace, dribbling and ability to actually score goals. I would start him and bring rashford on for ibra with 30 mins to go if we're still chasing the game. Would like to see schweinsteiger involved in some capacity too.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

No wonder he falls out with everyone everywhere. I prefer the approach of being supportive and patient with the talented young players the way SAF was instead of publicly criticising/challenging them, dropping them randomly, and being generally confrontational.

Well maybe Jose

Same with Fellaini, he got an arm around his shoulder after Everton game. Don't get me wrong i agree with the fact that he supported Fellaini after that mistake but standards should be same for every player.



Have you even read anything I've written? You have no reason to distrust his approach? How about Lukaku, De Bruyne and Robben for a reason?

It's all a bit boring now tbh, if you want to continue to cry about a player he could well be treating fairly, and roll out the lazy Lukaku, De Bruyne comparisons then that's up to you, but personally I'd rather trust that our manager is doing everything in the best interests of the team, I have no reason to suspect anything else.

 

[Fracture90]

It's all a bit boring now tbh, if you want to continue to cry about a player he could well be treating fairly, and roll out the lazy Lukaku, De Bruyne comparisons then that's up to you, but personally I'd rather trust that our manager is doing everything in the best interests of the team, I have no reason to suspect anything else

The fact you're resorting to petty provocations like "crying" and such just proves my point. You can't take the facts and that's all.

Come back when you have some actual facts instead of blind faith in manager that's infamous for being wrong.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

The fact you're resorting to petty provocations like "crying" and such just proves my point. You can't take the facts and that's all.

Come back when you have some actual facts instead of blind faith in manager that's infamous for being wrong.

Ok, fair play, I apologies for the crying thing, I'm really not into tit for tat, tell me what you want then, the manager sacked for treating Martial this way?

 

[sunama]

Have you been watching Pogba lately?

Since the LFC game, Pogba has not been too good.
But before then, he was fantastic.

 

[Fracture90]

Ok, fair play I apologies for the crying thing, I'm really not into tit for tat, tell me what you want then, the manager sacked for treating Martial this way?

I haven't asked for his head at all, but i want him to start applying the same rules for everyone and to do what's in club's best interest, which IMO includes having Martial at least on the bench after performances he's been putting in the last month.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I haven't asked for his head at all, but i want him to start applying the same rules for everyone and to do what's in club's best interest, which IMO includes having Martial at least on the bench after performances he's been putting in the last month.

Tbf Marial played ok against Wigan, and then was on bench against Hull, if Jones hadn't got injured I'm fairly sure he'd have come on.

The point I've been making (maybe badly), is that I don't think anything sinister is going on, Martial let his standards slip, and had his agent talking crap, Jose didn't like it and what wanted to show him the error of his ways, soon enough all his efforts will be all worth it when Martial takes the advice and steps up, I really think it is that simple.

 

[RedPnutz]

Martial doesn't have good competition. People here just lap up anything Mourinho says. If our attacking options were so good we wouldn't so appalling statistically. Mata and Mkhitarian are not left wingers. It's Lingard and Rashford and they aren't very good (Rashford was much better centrally).

Pogba's competition is significantly worsened by Jose not rating Schweinsteiger and schneiderlin and not even signing anyone he does.

That's the point isn't it? You highlighted that Mata and Mhkitarian are not left wingers and that Lingard and Rashford aren't very good. But are we much better (statistically or otherwise) when Martial plays in front of them? I am not sure.

Perhaps good competition is not the right phrase. I can't think of a word but I think part of the problem (aside from possible attitude which would mostly be conjecture anyway), is that Martial has competition snapping at his heels but he isn't clearly leaving them eating his dust as he should be based on his talent.

 

[RedPnutz]

Not sure why the green smileys. I clearly state that Martial is a much better player. He needs to show that he is way ahead of his competition as his talent clearly suggests. You'd want a Ferrari driving like a Ferrari, not just slightly better than a Camry.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

@Pogue Mahone @MThomas
So who won the argument? I'm confused. Are we training football or mainly "keeping fitness"?

I haven't really thought about this before, always assumed regular match simulation was a part of it. Would be strange if the manager doesn't pick his starters partly based on training.

Me, easily imho.

I'm not sure why people consider "keeping fitness" as nothing else than jogging about. The point wasn't really about what type of training it is, if it's 5 a side matches, piggy in the middle or whatever, but the intensity and how competitive it is. Pogue's reference was about "tearing it up in training", my view, and i could be wrong, is that it doesn't really exist any longer and that the only way you can really stand out is if you are utter useless.

Sorry, dude, you're talking out your arse. Which you seem to realise seeing as you keep changing your stance. I made a very simple point that training is an opportunity for a manager to see which players are in good form and which aren't. The implication that training is only for "general fitness" was always a load of bollox. Training involves a lot of ball-work and competitive situations, at every level of football. It has to. Which allows individuals to shine, or do the opposite.

This is from an interview with Chris Smalling about what happens in training.

Smalling believes the ingredients for that mean defence have been sewn on the training field.

"Yes definitely," he told manutd.com .

"I think in training we’re often playing with different partners and in any given game you never know what sort of forwards you’re going to be up against."

"I think a lot of that understanding is based around our training and what we do on a daily basis but I feel very comfortable with all of them and likewise they all feel comfortable because we play with each other every day."

You know it's ok to say "Actually, I may have got that wrong"? Nobody will think any less of you. The opposite, in fact.

 

[MThomas]

Sorry, dude, you're talking out your arse. Which you seem to realise seeing as you keep changing your stance. I made a very simple point that training is an opportunity for a manager to see which players are in good form and which aren't. The implication that training is only for "general fitness" was always a load of bollox. Training involves a lot of ball-work and competitive situations, at every level of football. It has to. Which allows individuals to shine, or do the opposite.

This is from an interview with Chris Smalling about what happens in training.



You know it's ok to say "Actually, I may have got that wrong"? Nobody will think any less of you. The opposite, in fact.

I still have absolutely no idea why you are having such difficulty understanding that keeping fitness can involve more than jogging. Nor do i quite understand why you keep claiming that i'm changing my stance, i haven't even once changed my stance. Then again, you can't even get a one line quote correct, so it might not be such a big surprise after all..

isn't general training sessions about keeping fitness

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Spoiler

 

[bosnian_red]

Bench again. So apparently he has to play "exceptionally" to start a game (2 assists and a very good game isn't enough) while Rashford can play like absolute ass game after game on the wing and still start? Makes sense. Pisses me off that we're going to lose him because of stuborness and he'll go on to be one of the best players around, especially when we need someone exactly like him.

 

[SteveW]

Yeah. It looks bad. Can't defend Jose on this. He's screwing this up

 

[IrishRedDevil]

All we ask for is consistency and fairness from match officials, yet the same doesn't even apply to team selection.

Martial has to play magnificently or he faces the bench, yet when Rashford plays average he gets rewarded with another start.

Couldn't give a shit if one is a local Manc.

 

[Raw]

What the feck is this guy supposed to do to get a start?

 

[Kag]

If Mourinho was consistent then both Mkhitaryan and Rashford would be on the bench with Martial being given his chance.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

So when Mourinho said if he plays brilliant against Wigan he'd start again, he was lying?

Granted he was only good in the second half, Mkhi, Rashford, Mata, Pogba and Ibra have all been below average, yet they have been starting.

 

[Bestie07]

Honestly speaking, I'd rather lose Mourinho then Martial. Mourinho hasn't put in the years as a United manager yet that would give him the right to push the best young talent we have out of the door, makes no sense in terms of long term planning. Hopefully somebody from the board makes it clear to both the player and the manager that they are stuck with each other and they work things out ASAP.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

This is bullshit

 

[Damien]

He was never going to start this game anyway. Mourinho's not a fan of him in away games (last start away was against Everton at beginning of December). Should get 5 or so minutes to stake his claim today.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Honestly speaking, I'd rather lose Mourinho then Martial. Mourinho hasn't put in the years as a United manager yet that would give him the right to push the best young talent we have out of the door, makes no sense in terms of long term planning. Hopefully somebody from the board makes it clear to both the player and the manager that they are stuck with each other and they work things out ASAP.

There's so much wrong with everything you've said.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Unfortunately he's playing a game he cannot win with this ass clown as manager. He'll probably go to psg in the summer and turn into a top winger.

 

[Adisa]

I will not forgive Jose, if this guy leaves.

 

[dichinero]

Unfortunately he's playing a game he cannot win with this ass clown as manager. He'll probably go to psg in the summer and turn into a top winger.

The funny thing is when a club like PSG offers him patience, opportunity and confidence some clowns here will say that he's mentally weak!

 

[txred]

Honestly speaking, I'd rather lose Mourinho then Martial.

Agreed, and it's not even really close. Frankly, Martial has proven more at United. He has show the potential to be a top 5 player in the world one day and, even during his sub-par season, he's contributed more often than not.

I love Rashford, but there's simply no reason for him to start on left wing over Martial.

 

[Devil may care]

It's just silly now, Rashford and Mata did feck all against Hull except miss a sitter each, while Martial got 2 assists against Wigan, yet they start again.

He was never going to start this game anyway. Mourinho's not a fan of him in away games (last start away was against Everton at beginning of December). Should get 5 or so minutes to stake his claim today.

I've been reading your posts on this for a while, why do I get the feeling you are getting some pleasure out of this Martial situation, like you're hoping he'll be sold?

 

[sincher]

Maybe Mourinho can't actually see what happens on our left side. Just can't fathom his selections there.

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

I rate Rashford, he'll be a very handy player for us for years to come but right now, Martial offers more. He has a much higher ceiling and is just being wasted at the moment.

 

[Carlsen19]

The overreaction in here is mental. He's really not done anything of note this season.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

This will turn fans against Jose. He better be careful as he is playing with fire. I honestly won't forgive him if he forces Martial to leave, over him trying to make some silly point.

 

[Godfather]

Must have shagged Mou's daughter or wife. Or both. At the same time

 

[Damien]

I've been reading your posts on this for a while, why do I get the feeling you are getting some pleasure out of this Martial situation, like you're hoping he'll be sold?

All I want is for our in form attacking player to get minutes. Some will keep saying he's "done nothing of note" this season and I'm just trying to say he has when given the chance. You can only judge a player on when they play and in his recent form he's given us what we've lacked - presence from the left to set players up/score.

 

[Man-United]

If he stay this will be good for him. After last season when LvG played him every game he also played in the Euro and was back late for pre season so not much rest at all for him. This season more rest so hopefully we will see the best of him again next season. Can't sell him.

 

[Godfather]

The overreaction in here is mental. He's really not done anything of note this season.

More than Rashford in his last games so should be picked ahead of him. It's that simple. Or Rashford turns into Ronaldo in training sessions and forgets football the moment the whistle blows

 

[AlecHDR]

The overreaction in here is mental. He's really not done anything of note this season.

What does the that even mean? The more important question is, who of our other left wing options have been better?

I'll wait.

 

[AndyJ1985]

This will turn fans against Jose. He better be careful as he is playing with fire. I honestly won't forgive him if he forces Martial to leave, over him trying to make some silly point.

It won't turn proper match going fans against him I can promise you that. The ridiculous overreactions are by a minority on the internet.