I thought you were joking.
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I thought you were joking.
No but I understand why you read it that way.
Doubt it, good luck though!
Oh right. You've moved from "isn't general training sessions about keeping fitness" to "isn't Mourinho (yet not Van Gaal's) training sessions about keeping fitness". Well now it's your turn to enlighten me. What's the difference between the training sessions of the two managers? Some sort of evidence to back your explanation up would be great.
Some people are "in the know" on here, no evidence needed.
So do we think Jose is doing this out of spite? Or because he wants to play an inferior player on the right? Maybe he is, but the more likely scenario is there is a very good reason for this situation, and I'd always side with manager in cases like this.
Oh not really. My original quote was "isn't general training sessions about keeping fitness". To which you went on a rant about open training sessions, which some clubs apparently have (how often every week is that ?), where you also mention Van Gaals obsession with nobody getting to see his training sessions. Since you were the one to bring Van Gaal into this, i'm not entirely sure why you want me to enlighten you about the differences.
I'm not entirely sure why you feel i'm the right person to do so, i've even written
. I assume it's to shift focus.
I can provide you with this link however: http://metro.co.uk/2016/10/01/marcu...sessions-under-van-gaal-and-mourinho-6164421/
Ok, good. It's been tortuous but we've finally got there. Mourinho's training sessions involve a lot of work with the ball (Hererra) and are geared towards making individuals "complete players" (Rashford). This is where you back down on your assertion that they're about "keeping fitness" and Mourinho couldn't be using the quality of individual performances in training to help pick his team (my original point). Admitting you're wrong is a rare quality on the caf so I won't hold my breath.
Actually, what Rashford says is
Though it's perfectly understandable that plain text is difficult to comprehend, so i've translated that bit to binary: 01010110 01100001 01101110 00100000 01000111 01100001 01100001 01101100 11100010 10000000 10011001 01110011 00100000 01110011 01100101 01110011 01110011 01101001 01101111 01101110 01110011 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100100 01101001 01110010 01100101 01100011 01110100 01101100 01111001 00100000 01110010 01100101 01101100 01100001 01110100 01100101 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100111 01100001 01101101 01100101 01110011
Nor did i say that Mourinho couldn't be using individual performance in training to help pick his team.
Think Jose will be going more on what has happened during his reign rather than past regimes.
See my edit. Revised Rashford quote backs up my point even more effectively tbh.
I love how they are two very different things (Rashfords own words), but according to you just backs up the same point. And i'm still not entirely sure how any of this goes against my quote
I think you've mistaken "keeping fitness" with the players doing nothing else than jogging around, which i've never said.
thanks!
Facts are that he's being dropped everytime he played good and we know about Jose's record with managing talented youth. Also Mourinho is infamous for his petty antics and fights with players.
Maybe Jose is trying to do a 'Mata' with Martial i.e. sell him to the next club he is going to move to because obviously he'll be sacked soon enough.
If a player is maybe not buying into Jose's ways, or is simply not playing to his potential, then imo he needs a kick up the arse, it's how he reacts to this that's important, it's no doubt all part of the Jose initiation test for talented players who's mentality he's not sure about, it's up to Martial to step up the challenge, or leave.
Your argument would have had the time to exist if Martial hadn't put a high level, most crucially a productive performance just a game prior to the Hull match up.
In addition, he was on the clear upward looking slope for the time being now, while producing goods.
That's a bullshit excuse and you know it.
It all comes down to kissing Mourinho's arse, just look at Fellaini and you'll see.
If Mourinho isn't playing our last season's best scorer and player in moments when we're struggling to score and when he's rising his form means Mourinho isn't working in team's best interest.
So what you're saying is that Jose isn't playing Martial because he isn't 'kissing his arse', and that until he does he'll continue not playing someone who would give us a greater chance of winning our games?
Not sure I buy into that theory personally, more that whatever Jose is doing will be in Martial's best interests if he listens, it has to be that way, and I have no reason to believe anything else is going on here other than good old fashioned tough love, for what I'm sure Jose knows is a hugely talented player.
Look mate you can have all the blind faith of the world in Mourinho, it's your choice but them facts are telling different story.
He's known to be petty at times and letting his ego get him in conflict with players which ultimately results in him losing his dressingroom, as it has happened in the past.
His track record with talented young players he ran out of the clubs he has managed also paints a picture there.
He's only publicly criticised Shaw and Martial (both immense talents and both 21 years of age)
Martial is getting into form lately and really looking like our best option on the LW yet he gets dropped after every noticeable performance.
Why's he doing this though? Because he knows they can do better, imo he wants them to break out of their comfort zone and offer more, let's face it Shaw hasn't been great this season when he has had a chance, Martial is improving as the season goes on, but he does frustrate, as you say these are two potentially immense players, and if it takes 2-3 months of so called harsh treatment to push them up a level then so be it.
Jose has been with us just 6 months, and has unquestionably improved our style of play, he has a winning track record that demands respect, and imo is playing things slightly differently at United than he ever did at his previous clubs, because he probably wants to stay long term, so for now I'll side with him over any player, as I'm sick of this cycle of making excuses for the players, and replacing the manger.
Dude the same approach doesn't work for every player. Not every player can benefit from army drill sargent approach. Different players need different approach.
He needs to stop singling out and criticising players in public.
No wonder he falls out with everyone everywhere. I prefer the approach of being supportive and patient with the talented young players the way SAF was instead of publicly criticising/challenging them, dropping them randomly, and being generally confrontational.
Exactly. And if you're not going to the method I prefer of prioritizing your most promising assets at least don't be prejudiced against them. Martial's recent treatment is not even based on merit. He's playing well enough to start regularly now. Shaw was publicly criticised for an error. Didn't see Pogba criticised or challenged for that nonsensical display vs Liverpool or Ibra for his repeated missed chances. It appears as though this tough guy approach is limited to the younger players who are supposed to play "magnificently" to play the next game, while the rest of the squad drags their feet on mediocrity lane.
Difference being if it wasn't for Ibra's goals we'd be fighting relegation and we have literally no-one to replace Pogba in the team. Replacing Martial with Mata, Lingard or Rashford is a lot less of a gap in quality than replacing Pogba with Fellaini.
The fact is that neither you, nor I, know what goes on, and at this point I have no reason to distrust Jose, or question his approach with our players.
Have you been watching Pogba lately?
Yes and I think the overreaction towards him is funny. He might not be playing his best but he's still coming up with individual moments of brilliance that should have got us over the line more than a few times.
Some people are insane. Without pogba we would look horrendous. Many have had an agenda ever since he arrived.
Same with Fellaini, he got an arm around his shoulder after Everton game. Don't get me wrong i agree with the fact that he supported Fellaini after that mistake but standards should be same for every player.
Have you even read anything I've written? You have no reason to distrust his approach? How about Lukaku, De Bruyne and Robben for a reason?
This. Even though he's not at 100% he still creates great chances. Like the Rashford chance or similar lobs over the defence to Zlatan for instance.
No he's just doing his absolute best to absolve Mou of any blame and don't want any criticism lay on Mourinho. His arguments against Martial are rather weak which are signs of straw grasping.
Stating the obvious but clearly something isn't right. I have no idea whether the issue is with Tony or Jose but there will only be one winner.
Agree with this. But not enough fans are this rational or would widen their perspective.
It is just unfortunate for Martial he has good competition. I know that Martial is a much better player than Lingard and Rashford and could be better than Mhkitaryan and Mata, but he's not showing that gap in quality enough. Put Lingard in and you may not see a discernible drop in quality - that's Martial problem.
As for Pogba, if you drop him, who else can you replace him with without a big drop in quality?
Martial doesn't have good competition. People here just lap up anything Mourinho says. If our attacking options were so good we wouldn't so appalling statistically. Mata and Mkhitarian are not left wingers. It's Lingard and Rashford and they aren't very good (Rashford was much better centrally).
Pogba's competition is significantly worsened by Jose not rating Schweinsteiger and schneiderlin and not even signing anyone he does.
So...You want Mourinho to sign players he doesn't rate? I don't get what you're after here.
Pretty much this.
People are just buying anything Mou says and him being the manager he has that advantage of speaking in public while players sit behind the scenes living through true or false stories about them being divulged to the media.
For some reason some want to rationalized Martial current benching by him having good competition while that's simply not true. People talked about Martial not performing thus deserving the constant harsh treatments from Mou in the first half of the season(despite giving Rashford games week in week out even though he was playing poorly) yet even now after the kid showed rise in his performances and playing better than his competition, he still found himself being dropped.
I don't know why some are trying to sugarcoat it or simply don't want to admit but Mourinho simply doesn't fancy Martial and is certainly not playing the guys ahead him on meritocracy, that's completely false.
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