To be on the bench? What the hell is wrong with José? This man is really beginning to annoy. Has there ever been a manager that has publicly criticised his players as much as he has done in half a season. Did he not learn from last season?
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To be on the bench? What the hell is wrong with José? This man is really beginning to annoy. Has there ever been a manager that has publicly criticised his players as much as he has done in half a season. Did he not learn from last season?
He does play, just not everygame which is fair if hes not playing consistently well, given the other talented players we have.
I'm hoping that it was always planned that Martial wouldn't start against Hull and Mourinho just doesn't want to offer any praise to keep him focused.
Ever considered that the same way of "motivating" players doesn't work for every player?
He kept praising Fellaini, Pogba, Rooney and Zlatan after bad performances, yet he criticised Martial and Shaw.
Good performances, no point arguing we just have differing opinions. No one is weaseling I said he was good, you said he was great. Not sure why you're so desperate for me to agree with you.
Exactly. Mind games does not make up for lack of man management skills. Let's bring in Giggs to talk to this please. José is going to destroy these players at this rate.
This thread is crazy. Some of the comments are as if Mourinho is deliberately trying to kick Martial out of the club.
He is clearly trying to get Martial to up his game and is setting high standards for him. Who knows if that is the right approach. Mourinho deals with him day to day so is best placed to judge. It certainly is risky but if Jose can get Martial performing consistently at his peak level it will be fantastic.
One thing I would say is after Jose's comments before the Wigan game there was no way Martial could start vs Hull. He challenged him to have a top class performance and he didn't play well in my opinion. The 2 assists really masked a poor overall performance.
He is clearly trying to get Martial to up his game and is setting high standards for him. Who knows if that is the right approach. Mourinho deals with him day to day so is best placed to judge. It certainly is risky but if Jose can get Martial performing consistently at his peak level it will be fantastic.
One thing I would say is after Jose's comments before the Wigan game there was no way Martial could start vs Hull. He challenged him to have a top class performance and he didn't play well in my opinion. The 2 assists really masked a poor overall performance.
Just comical. But why shoehorning someone instead of just playing the player that is in form (Mikhi) and a player that's raising his form (Martial)?
When Mata is playing it means Mikhi is either out or he's on the left, he's yet to play as our number 10. And when Mata is on the right it automatically limits Valencia and his impact in the attack due to Mata being poor at backtracking and defending as well as drifting inside and leaving Valencia alone on the right.
Our players are delicate little flowers and evil Jose will destroy them.
I definitely believe there is a problem with Martial's agent. From last month Jose's interview about how Martial has to listen to him, not his agent, I truly believe the agent is playing politics.
Not at all, just baffled at the lengths you'll go just to justify Mourinho's decision.
If those weren't great performances, you're ought to rethink your understanding of the game.
Mata has played well on the right for us this season, in your obsession to have Martial start every game despite form, you now want to turn into a revisionist and discredit Mata. Mata (a player who also doesn't start every game btw because his form has also been patchy)
I've justified nothing. I said he should start vs Hull. But I don't act like Martial has been playing to a level where he deserves to be a guaranteed starter on the left. Because he hasn't.
Listen, don't go too far mate. We have differing opinions, its a forum, not everyone will see things the same as you, deal with it. I certainly don't think I need to take any notes from you about my understanding of the game. I will say it again, his performances were good, for me a great performance I have a higher standard than you, deal with it.
How can he play consistently well when he's being dropped after every game he played good?
Mata played on the right in the beginning of the season because Mourinho was roasting Mikhi and because Martial and Rashford can't play shiit there.
Lately Mourinho is playing Mata on the right mostly due to his quite odd team selection, shoehorning Mikhi on the right instead of playing Martial who was raising his form in that moment.
Have i ever said that Martial should be an automatic starter?
I'm saying that Mourinho is saying that he should perform better if he's to start, yet everytime he performed great he got dropped the next game.
Where's the logic in there?
Don't go too far he said.
If me questioning you understanding of the game after you said Martial's performances vs Middlesbrough, Reading and West Ham were just "good" is going too far. Than in that case I'll go even further, gladly.
All you're doing is trying to justify Mourinho's odd decisions and nothing more.
It's weird, I see the various reasoning in here but the thing it comes down to me is that we don't have another option that has done much of anything, so we wont make the team any better by switching him out for Rashford. If the guy that suggested the plan is to use Mkhi on the left more so we can shape things ready for Griezmann I'd be worried about Martial's future here, I guess we'll se tonight, if he's dropped for Lingard or Mata to play RW with Mkhi on the left then it's silly, at least if it's a straight switch with Rashford on the left you can make the case that Rashford has shown improvement in the position the last couple of times he's played.
Sigh ok so lets see. West Ham Boro and Reading.
West Ham - played good. Next game Everton (started didn't play good) next game benched Europa League, next game started Spurs at home (didn't play good) left out for a bit.
Here he kept his place vs Everton (despite being dropped straight after a "great performance according to you") He didn't play the Europa league game but then played the next home game a big game vs Spurs. So dropped after a great performance is not true.
Boro - played good. Next game Christmas period West Ham (didnt play), next game Reading - played good. Next game Hull (subbed on) next game Liverpool (didn't play good)
Again he did get left out after Boro and Reading but he started vs Liverpool, this was also over the Christmas period where there was some rotation.
Here you have a point he could have played vs Hull after Reading, but I got the impression he was saved for Liverpool. Not a bad thing for me.
In reality dropped everytime he played great is not even true, even if you say he played great in those games you mentioned.
Don't go too far he said.
If me questioning you understanding of the game after you said Martial's performances vs Middlesbrough, Reading and West Ham were just "good" is going too far. Than in that case I'll go even further, gladly.
All you're doing is trying to justify Mourinho's odd decisions and nothing more.
Not really I think its fair that other players who put in good performances also get games. Unless Martial is playing to a level that means he has to play every game.. Where I take exception with Mourinho is that Ibra and Pogba can put in substandard performances yet they seem to be untouchable. I guess with Ibra since he is the only one in the team really scoring goals it makes sense, but Pogba there lies the issue.
It's funny you mentioned that. Over the weekend, I had a discussion with someone and part of it was that Jose's insistence or should I say preference not to work with developing players may be coming into play. The 4 developing players in the first team are Shaw, Martial, Rashford and TFM. One point was that José isn't one to give patience a chance with such players and might be trying to frustrate Shaw and Martial out of the first team. And when Rashford was pointed out, José is not giving him a hard time just yet because unlike the former two, he isn't as close to the first team. TFM, is just well, just there for pointless reasons. However cynical it might sound, it is not unquestionable as far José is concerned. I will not be surprised if Martial and Shaw are moved out or sent on loan, or just further demoted to make room for new signings.
I can see why he's going mad to be fair. He played superbly in those games. Pretty sure he got man of the match in a couple. Seems a bit odd to say those performances were only good.
How the law of playing good makes you choose yourself on the next game is applicable on Martial but not on Zlatan and Pugba amazes me. Martial last 2 games scored 2 goals and 2 assists. Not to forget kicked out of the 18 players list after the great game against Middlesbrough. Playing the mind game JM!! really. How did that end in your last 4 jobs? Many problems with the players and then sacked 3 times out of 4.
So being dropped 2/3 times after playing great isn't being dropped?
Also against Everton he was good, he even got an assist.
Also didn't play good against Liverpool? You serious? He was the only one trying in the first half, even Klopp recognised it and put 3 players on him. Tell me who played better than him against Liverpool?
Vs Stoke came in, scored a goal, pretty much changed the game for us constantly marauding the left flank, gets dropped for 2 weeks.
I don't even think the team played great in those games, but then again standards. I agree he was MOTM vs Reading, but that doesn't mean I think it was a "great" performance by him, that doesn't mean I don't think it was good. IMO he can and has played to a much higher level and that against better opposition too.
So you are saying he was our best player vs Liverpool?
No he didn't play good vs Liverpool, he was largely ineffective, after the first 10 mins. Offered nothing second half.
As for being dropped, was he dropped against Hull or rested for Liverpool? I'm saying that I'm not so sure he was "dropped" i.e left out as punishment.
I don't remember what happened after Stoke tbf you may have a point there
Our best attacking player, yes. Pretty much nobody except him tried anything, it was all Rojo and Jones hoofing the ball upfront.
He pretty much ruined their newbie RB in them first 10 minutes, than got market by 3 men with no help from Darmian and Pogba. Weirdly even then he got through once or twice. Who played better than him offensively? Defensively he did his part and helped Darmian out.
Well we must have watched a different game. Trying isnt the same as being the best. Mickhi tried too. And was better.
Mhiki created our chances that game (even though he should have scored before half time)
Will be harsh to be on the bench tonight. Was poor in the first half V Wigan but good in the second and thought he played himself into contention with the 2 assists.
Moving Mhiki from his favourite position to bring in Mata makes no sense. You then have 2 players out of their natural position when it's just unnecessary. Let's face it Mata hasn't been pulling up any trees lately either. Mhiki has been good, keep him on the right. Martial was very good second half, play him on the left.
Moving Mhiki from his favourite position to bring in Mata makes no sense. You then have 2 players out of their natural position when it's just unnecessary. Let's face it Mata hasn't been pulling up any trees lately either. Mhiki has been good, keep him on the right. Martial was very good second half, play him on the left.
The one who created our chances
Mou's approach would make sure if other players were actually justifying not playing martial. I'm a big fan of Mata and he's generally done well this season so him starting in place is fair enough, although in some games we need more width.
Leaving him out though to play Rayford/lingard doesn't really make sense. Rashford has shown glimpses but not much from wide.
Given that Mikhi can play both sides and comes centrally a lot anyway, his point about him on the left isn't really valid for me, particularly when I can't see such a big difference in his output between wings to justify it.
As I said if other players were stepping up then it would be fair enough but they're not and his approach isn't consistent with others in the squad either. That's not to Martial shouldn't be doing better but he's hardly the worst and as his numbers show is still a threat.
Can only hope it all works out I guess. Do think though that we could be doing more to get the best out of the wide players in general, even with Mikhi it feels like it's his individual quality than our approach which is seeing him be as good as he has been.
Leaving him out though to play Rayford/lingard doesn't really make sense. Rashford has shown glimpses but not much from wide.
Given that Mikhi can play both sides and comes centrally a lot anyway, his point about him on the left isn't really valid for me, particularly when I can't see such a big difference in his output between wings to justify it.
As I said if other players were stepping up then it would be fair enough but they're not and his approach isn't consistent with others in the squad either. That's not to Martial shouldn't be doing better but he's hardly the worst and as his numbers show is still a threat.
Can only hope it all works out I guess. Do think though that we could be doing more to get the best out of the wide players in general, even with Mikhi it feels like it's his individual quality than our approach which is seeing him be as good as he has been.
But it is, none of them are starting games consistently.
Not Mata, Not Lingard and not Rashford.
This difference is when they are not picked no one is crying and the press are not asking Mourinho questions.
Mikhi has a raging beast playing alongside him on the right, which helps a ton.
True he was good, set up that chance for Pogba, yet missed a great chance and seemed shaky, got bullied off the ball in few instances by Can.. Both him and Martial were good that first half yet Mikhi started the next game, Martial was dropped.
Chance* for Pogba.
Martial wasn't good in that game. Mhiki was decent, I wouldn't even say he was good. As an attacking unit none of the attacking players had a good game.
Two of those games were in the cup against weak opposition in Reading and an underperforming team that wanted out of the competition in West Ham.
In the league, he has two goals and three assists. And the three assists are hardly him putting chances on a plate for his team mate.
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