[Fracture90]

Martial wasn't good in that game. Mhiki was decent, I wouldn't even say he was good. As an attacking unit we none of the attacking players had a good game.

Again your view on football.

This is turning into a loop.

I'll say it again, i want what's best for UTD and that certainly involves having Martial (arguably in best form this season this last month, his form not the team) on the bench against fekin Stoke.

Even more so knowing that Mata haven't really played great since West Ham away game and Lingard even longer.

Also because to play Mata from the start means you'll need to play Mikhi on the left (his weaker position) and limit Valencia's attacking contribution due to him having extra defensive work because Mata is useless in that segment.

 

[Fracture90]

Two of those games were in the cup against weak opposition in Reading and an underperforming team that wanted out of the competition in West Ham.

In the league, he has two goals and three assists. And the three assists are hardly him putting chances on a plate for his team mate.

Spoiler

He's done more than Lingard and Rashford (arguably) to at least be on the bench and get some minutes.

Rooney has like 10 assists this season, half of which were the same like those.

 

[Cassidy]

He's done more than Lingard and Rashford (arguably) to at least be on the bench and get some minutes.

Rooney has like 10 assists this season, half of which were the same like those.

Probably why he started vs Liverpool and Spurs

 

[Jib]

Mourinho doesn't like Martial

 

[Fracture90]

Probably why he started vs Liverpool and Spurs

That's the problem. How Mourinho expects from him to explode against big teams without giving him run at some weaker teams before, especially when he's playing good is baffling.

 

[Cassidy]

That's the problem. How Mourinho expects from him to explode against big teams without giving him run at some weaker teams before, especially when he's playing good is baffling.

He played the games before Spurs (West Ham and Everton)
He played vs Reading before Pool (Rested vs Hull) (Christmas period)

 

[Jazz]

Exactly. Mind games does not make up for lack of man management skills. Let's bring in Giggs to talk to this please. José is going to destroy these players at this rate.

No, Giggs is not the right person. SAF is a director and supposedly Jose has no problem with him stopping by - get the master to have an informal talk with Martial.

Or better yet, get SAF to have a quiet word with Jose.

Look, I have no problem with him pushing him etc - but it must be done in private.

The other thing is you can't just apply one technique in this situation. For eg. when he's being a lazy twat you tell the boy off. On the other hand, if he does well, let him know as well without going over the top. You criticise, cajole, encourage etc. Jose seems to be one dimensional in this regard. He only seems to be able to get along with a certain personality. With his managerial experience, he should do better in this regard. In this respect, he's most similar to LVG - where LVG can work with the kids but not established players, whilst with Jose likes the 'older' players and has no patience with the young ones.

The kid has an extremely high ceiling and you have to nurture that talent. Playing mind games with a 21 year old is pretty pathetic. Jose should be a better man than that.

 

[Devil may care]

It's funny you mentioned that. Over the weekend, I had a discussion with someone and part of it was that Jose's insistence or should I say preference not to work with developing players may be coming into play. The 4 developing players in the first team are Shaw, Martial, Rashford and TFM. One point was that José isn't one to give patience a chance with such players and might be trying to frustrate Shaw and Martial out of the first team. And when Rashford was pointed out, José is not giving him a hard time just yet because unlike the former two, he isn't as close to the first team. TFM, is just well, just there for pointless reasons. However cynical it might sound, it is not unquestionable as far José is concerned. I will not be surprised if Martial and Shaw are moved out or sent on loan, or just further demoted to make room for new signings.

I think Rashford is immune from criticism because Jose is wary of it given he's an Academy product and hyped for England as well, plus he's always liked English players. I also think he intends to use Rashford wide and buy a new #9 post-Ibra, that leaves less room and Martial and Rashford would be in direct competition.

 

[Fracture90]

He played the games before Spurs (West Ham and Everton)
He played vs Reading before Pool (Rested vs Hull) (Christmas period)

He never got the run of games. You can't just go out and publicly criticising a player especially considering he's getting dropped after every (bar one vs West Ham) performances.

Also considering that his competition for LW spot isn't really having a standout performances.

 

[Manny]

He's done more than Lingard and Rashford (arguably) to at least be on the bench and get some minutes.

Rooney has like 10 assists this season, half of which were the same like those.

I agree. Mikhi and Mata have near enough equivalent output in terms of assists and goals but also producing more chances than Martial.

Spoiler

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...8/0/p#goals_scored/assists/chances_created#90

They are all performing well below what we need so none of them deserve a starting spot.

 

[Fracture90]

I agree. Mikhi and Mata have near enough equivalent output in terms of assists and goals but also producing more chances than Martial.

Spoiler

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...8/0/p#goals_scored/assists/chances_created#90

They are all bad so none of them deserve a starting spot.

That's the general misconception. I'm not saying Martial automatically deserves to be a starter for us, not at all considering he wasn't great throughout the season.

I'm arguing that when he's playing good he should get a run of games instead of being dropped.

And arguing that he's done more than for example Lingard to be ahead of him on the bench, Stoke game for example.

 

[Ash_G]

But it is, none of them are starting games consistently.
Not Mata, Not Lingard and not Rashford.

This difference is when they are not picked no one is crying and the press are not asking Mourinho questions.

I mean in the squad in general rather than specifically out wide.

I agree that the media leaks have been disappointing though and hope it's something his camp wise up on. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why Mou has made it as public as it has become. However I don't follow his logic in say, saying Martial needs to play better than Mikhi rather than the likes of rashford/lingard/mata out wide nor the reason to change the wide players as much as has been. Although stats can be misleading they do show that his output is better than most within our options so clearly he presents a threat and we need to now get his consistency and confidence back up to where it was last season- doesn't feel like this is the way to do it. As I said thoug can only hope it works out.

 

[Cassidy]

I mean in the squad in general rather than specifically out wide.

I agree that the media leaks have been disappointing though and hope it's something his camp wise up on. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why Mou has made it as public as it has become. However I don't follow his logic in say, saying Martial needs to play better than Mikhi rather than the likes of rashford/lingard/mata out wide nor the reason to change the wide players as much as has been. Although stats can be misleading they do show that his output is better than most within our options so clearly he presents a threat and we need to now get his consistency and confidence back up to where it was last season- doesn't feel like this is the way to do it. As I said thoug can only hope it works out.

He didn't say that

 

[Manny]

That's the general misconception. I'm not saying Martial automatically deserves to be a starter for us, not at all considering he wasn't great throughout the season.

I'm arguing that when he's playing good he should get a run of games instead of being dropped.

And arguing that he's done more than for example Lingard to be ahead of him on the bench, Stoke game for example.

What games has he played particularly well in? I can only think of the Boro game. And then he was rested (benched?) for the West Ham game two days later.

The Reading/Hull period in the cups was as at a time when everyone wanted heavy rotation following the Christmas period and leading into the Liverpool game, which he played. The Stoke game looks like one where he was dropped following the Liverpool game. Or was that the weekend he was given off?

 

[Janson]

Surely you don't have to read all this chat. Nobody's holding you at the gunpoint and forcing you to do it.

I obviously want to read about him as he potentially could be one of our best players but it's tiring to read the same things repeated over and over. It's difficult to find news and posts of substance in all these pages.

 

[Cantona_Forever]

Again your view on football.

And @Cassidy was right (about Martial not being the best attacking player against Liverpool) and you were wrong but funny you can't accept that and pretend to be the know-it-all about football when it's plain to see you don't know much.

 

[Jig1234]

Not really sure why Mourinho keeps digging Martial publically.

I don't see why he mentions Mkhitaryan at all. Martial plays on the left, Mkhitaryan plays on the right.

After seeing that amazing third goal vs Wigan. Perfect counter attacking football. I'd be tempted to play Mkhitaryan no.10 and Martial on the LW. If anyone was going to be dropped it probably be Rooney or Mata. There is one position that is questionable it's no.10

Be interesting to see how we line up tonight: Martial will be on the bench Curious to see how the front three/four play.

I've not seen Lingard do anything significant this season to suggest he is a starter.

If it were me I'd play Martial-Mkhitaryan (no.10-Mata/Rashford on the RW. Ibrahimovic up front. That would probably be my ideal front three but I think Mourinho also wants a plan B. I think he likes having Rashford or co on the bench to change a game.

 

[ash_86]

I think the difference is that Miki got repayed for his hard work and delivering while Martial has found himself left out of the squad entirely despite much improved performances.

Since the start of January Martial has has a surge in performances and delivered quite regularly(Boro, Reading,Wigan) and the only game he was a bit average like the rest of the team was the Liverpool one but in the space of those games he's found himself dropped out of the team or benched, that's simply not fair to the kid. He's been our best winger in that time period yet he's been the most dropped winger in our team, it doesn't seem quite right.

Mourinho has to sort out his handling of the guy, this is almost bullying.

Mourinho is a control freak. Martial/ his agent let out some unwanted stuff and Mou seems to absolutely hate it. If he needs constant game time, he needs to suck up to the boss by coming out in public and repeating the words Miki said in his interview. Nothing less is gonna get him on the pitch constantly.

 

[dichinero]

I think Rashford is immune from criticism because Jose is wary of it given he's an Academy product and hyped for England as well, plus he's always liked English players. I also think he intends to use Rashford wide and buy a new #9 post-Ibra, that leaves less room and Martial and Rashford would be in direct competition.

I think that's just going to be another catastrophe. Rashford is much more a natural #9 than a wide player. While Rashford will need to be eased into the #9 role, I don't see José being patient enough. So if it doesn't work out as a wide player and not properly managed as a #9, Rashford might soon be in Jose's crosshairs, given that he will be given £1bn to spend.

 

[Fracture90]

And @Cassidy was right (about Martial not the best attacking player against Liverpool) and you were wrong but funny you can't accept that and pretend to be the know-it-all about football when it's plain to see you don't know much.

I can't accept what exactly? If it makes it easier for you, sure Mikhi and Martial were both good, our best players in the first half. I've got no problem accepting that.

Problem is he's refusing to acknowledge other points I've made.

Sir, are you still salty about the other day?

 

[M4YON]

Not really sure why Mourinho keeps digging Martial publically.

I don't see why he mentions Mkhitaryan at all. Martial plays on the left, Mkhitaryan plays on the right.

After seeing that amazing third goal vs Wigan. Perfect counter attacking football. I'd be tempted to play Mkhitaryan no.10 and Martial on the LW. If anyone was going to be dropped it probably be Rooney or Mata. There is one position that is questionable it's no.10

Be interesting to see how we line up tonight: Martial will be on the bench Curious to see how the front three/four play.

I've not seen Lingard do anything significant this season to suggest he is a starter.

If it were me I'd play Martial-Mkhitaryan (no.10-Mata/Rashford on the RW. Ibrahimovic up front. That would probably be my ideal front three but I think Mourinho also wants a plan B. I think he likes having Rashford or co on the bench to change a game.

Agree with this.

Rashford has a much less impact on a game if he starts compared to if he comes on second half to run at tired legs.

Lingard has done nothing to warrant his place over Martial he's produced far less in terms of assists and goals.

Rooney has been playing poor and out on the left is by far our least useful option.

So his over criticism of Martial is no longer a motivation tactic its a vendetta and its going to end one way, with Martial leaving for another top club and fulfilling his potential and us regretting it. Mourinho has already done it twice with De Bruyne and Lukaku you'd like to think he'd of learnt but clearly not.

 

[Fracture90]

What games has he played particularly well in? I can only think of the Boro game. And then he was rested (benched?) for the West Ham game two days later.

The Reading/Hull period in the cups was as at a time when everyone wanted heavy rotation following the Christmas period and leading into the Liverpool game, which he played. The Stoke game looks like one where he was dropped following the Liverpool game. Or was that the weekend he was given off?

Middlesbrough, West Ham, Reading, Wigan, Stoke.

Good against Liverpool and Arsenal.

 

[Cantona_Forever]

I can't accept what exactly? If it makes it easier for you, sure Mikhi and Martial were both good, our best players in the first half. I've got no problem accepting that.

Problem is he's refusing to acknowledge other points I've made.

OK then. Then I was mistaken.

Sir, are you still salty about the other day?

Grow up, will you?

 

[Ban]

I think that's just going to be another catastrophe. Rashford is much more a natural #9 than a wide player. While Rashford will need to be eased into the #9 role, I don't see José being patient enough. So if it doesn't work out as a wide player and not properly managed as a #9, Rashford might soon be in Jose's crosshairs, given that he will be given £1bn to spend.

Its all doom and gloom with Mourinho with you. He'll kill and destroy young players. He's giving Rashford chances, he played a few as a striker but no. Thats not good, he'll destroy him too...

He has been good on the wing too recently btw.

 

[Jig1234]

Agree with this.

Rashford has a much less impact on a game if he starts compared to if he comes on second half to run at tired legs.

Lingard has done nothing to warrant his place over Martial he's produced far less in terms of assists and goals.

Rooney has been playing poor and out on the left is by far our least useful option.

So his over criticism of Martial is no longer a motivation tactic it's a vendetta and its going to end one way, with Martial leaving for another top club and fulfilling his potential and us regretting it. Mourinho has already done it twice with De Bruyne and Lukaku you'd like to think he'd of learnt but clearly not.

Hope it's not that serious, hopefully Martial can cement a place with the remaining games left this season we still have 4 comps to fight for well 3 cups and PL. I sure he can prove his value, Selling would be a huge mistake. Easily our best player on that LW. I'm confident he can earn himself a place.

I refuse to believe Martial can't earn a place ahead of Lingard.

 

[devips]

Martial is no Messi/Ronaldo. And never will be. So he can't expect special treatment from Managers. Simple. The France Manager dropped him in the Euro. No one in France was heard to be complaining. Mourinho didn't play him in some matches, because others playing better than him at the time were available. He played him, and will play him, when he thinks fit. Simple again.

 

[El-Manos]

Himself and Mhikitaryan should start tonight.

 

[unimaginative_name]

I'm a big fan of Martial and I do think Jose is unfair on him. Having said that, I have not seen him improving much from what he was last year. He was 19 last year, he is supposed to be improving leaps and bounds every year but he seems to have stagnated.

His biggest weakness is his left foot, but he didn't seem to have improved on that at all. Why is he always stuck on the left wing? Why doesn't he try to swap wings like Nani and Ronaldo used to do? Unless he improves his left foot, he will end up being mediocre. Even Messi improved his right foot, why shouldn't Martial?

Exactly the same thing can be said about his movement and level of knowledge about the game. Players are supposed to learn about movement and positional play as they age, Martial hasn't improved one bit on that. High cerebral quality is vital to be a top top footballer.

 

[dichinero]

Its all doom and gloom with Mourinho with you. He'll kill and destroy young players. He's giving Rashford chances, he played a few as a striker but no. Thats not good, he'll destroy him too...

He has been good on the wing too recently btw.

At the start of the I raised this concern that there will be issues between José and the 4 players I mentioned and till date I'm yet to be convinced otherwise. With the way he's been going on about Shaw and Martial, you'd think they've been the worst players this season. Had they not have been bought with a lot of money, they would have been dropped like a bad habit. As @Devil may care sensibly pointed out, Rashfords saving grace may be the whole romanticism of last season. He hasn't been better than Martial either. Regardless, I think Rashford could be handled better as I think he should be ahead of Rooney as Zlatan direct replacement for obvious reasons, rather than this wide player experiment. The TFM issue is obvious.

Btw, I am not calling for his head because of my displeasure with the way he handles developing players, it's the manager's perogative and we knew what we were getting when we signed him. That said, I think I'm entitled and reserve my right to have no confidence in José in that regard. If he wants to sell all of them this summer, that's his choice and I'm sure the club will back him somehow.

 

[Zoo]

His biggest weakness is his left foot, but he didn't seem to have improved on that at all. Why is he always stuck on the left wing? Why doesn't he try to swap wings like Nani and Ronaldo used to do? Unless he improves his left foot, he will end up being mediocre. Even Messi improved his right foot, why shouldn't Martial?

Didn't you see the perfectly weighted ball played with his left foot for Mkhitaryan on Sunday? He has also been crossing more with his left this season.

 

[Ash_G]

He didn't say that

Isn't that what he's saying here: http://www.skysports.com/football/n...rtial-that-henrikh-mkhitaryan-is-ahead-of-him

Could be that he said more that's not in the report here but seems like he was directly picking out Mikhi as being the competition which seems odd as he can play right and tends to come centrally anyway.

 

[Thisistheone]

Would like to see Martial start on the left tonight with Ibra and Mkhitaryan. Shame if not. But I guess Rashford also needs a game.

We have a shit load of matches coming up though once Europa kicks in so Martial will get plenty of chances between now and May.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Mourinho's comments are hilarious. Martial is playing better than our other options on the left but apparently he's done well enough "to be on the bench". FFS

And then he goes on to claim that mkhitarian who should be starting with martial is ahead of him on the left. Mkhitarian doesn't even play on the left. Fantastic stuff.

 

[M4YON]

Hope it's not that serious, hopefully Martial can cement a place with the remaining games left this season we still have 4 comps to fight for well 3 cups and PL. I sure he can prove his value, Selling would be a huge mistake. Easily our best player on that LW. I'm confident he can earn himself a place.

I refuse to believe Martial can't earn a place ahead of Lingard.

What chance has he got if Mourinho continues this little vendetta? For all the things Mourinho gets right his man management of top players is his weakest attribute by far hopefully this doesn't turn into anything serious but Mourinho is making it worse by criticising him after a good performance.
Comparing him to Mkhitaryan against Wigan is silly because Martial was just as good if not better.

 

[soap]

His biggest weakness is his left foot, but he didn't seem to have improved on that at all. Why is he always stuck on the left wing? Why doesn't he try to swap wings like Nani and Ronaldo used to do? Unless he improves his left foot, he will end up being mediocre. Even Messi improved his right foot, why shouldn't Martial?

Don't agree with this, his left foot is alright. Many great players have been a lot worse on their weaker side.

 

[Cassidy]

Isn't that what he's saying here: http://www.skysports.com/football/n...rtial-that-henrikh-mkhitaryan-is-ahead-of-him

Could be that he said more that's not in the report here but seems like he was directly picking out Mikhi as being the competition which seems odd as he can play right and tends to come centrally anyway.

I took it as that he needed to play well enough to force his hand so he HAS to start the next game, then he referenced Mhiki as someone who did that. Maybe I interpret it wrong, thats how I took it.

 

[Janson]

Martial is no Messi/Ronaldo. And never will be. So he can't expect special treatment from Managers. Simple. The France Manager dropped him in the Euro. No one in France was heard to be complaining. Mourinho didn't play him in some matches, because others playing better than him at the time were available. He played him, and will play him, when he thinks fit. Simple again.

This is the problem, alot of people are convinced he will be on their level. They're expecting too much of him.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Which left sided attacker is playing better than Martial? 2 assists in his last game is pretty good. You'd think it would be enough to give him another start.

 

[Shimo]

I just don't see the benefit of Mourinho's comments constantly about Martial. He needs to keep that between him and Martial in private. Only thing it does is serve Mourinho in perhaps a war with his agent and possibly Martial to show who is boss but, it doesn't do the team any good by undermining one of our most threaten left side attackers and possible long term stand out players.

Kind of hope that saying he is good enough a bench spot is just games and he actually starts him tonight - he could do with a run of games.

 

[Dobbs]

Mourinho is just being diplomatic. We know why he drops Martial. He can't though come out and say "Martial is a bit soft arse, so I'm toughening him up by dropping him and singling him out when he doesn't deserve to be. It's tough love"

Instead you get the nice version, citing competition for places etc. Same goes for his explanation of Depay's departure.