Dwight Yorke
Ha. True. And Ronaldinho. Perhaps to a lesser extent, Peter Beardsley. There's not many guys like that though.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
Ha. True. And Ronaldinho. Perhaps to a lesser extent, Peter Beardsley. There's not many guys like that though.
He is a much better left attacker, as he has showed time and time again. Martial being a potentially good striker is a myth that up to this day is still a mystery to me as to how some fans have convinced themselves of that. Maybe in the future yes, but definitely not right now.
Jose just wants to be convinced and if Martial does that, he will play no doubt. I think Mourinho was simply pissed off that Martial, for whatever reason, wasn't exploiting his talent.
Couple of nice assists, even playing in second gear.
Now let's see if he starts the next one! Never a given!
Now let's see if he starts the next one! Never a given!
I've been trying to get this point across for days in this thread. This nonsense about him being in shite form needs to end. I understand people backing the manager but they need to be fair on the play too. His form has been good recently.
That bothers me a little bit, which player exploits all his talent at 21, after around a hundred of games? He is too young to be punished because he has ups and downs. He shouldn't play all the games but he should be trusted and supported.
He can have a quiet first 60 minutes then turn it up for the last 30 of the match. When he finally gets Jose's trust he will win us many matches
Maybe they see that his potential is so big and that may be he isn't doing enough at the moment.
Martial's form has been decent. I found a stat on twitter that backs this up. He's had 7 goals or assists in his last 7 starts. That's a tangible return. Not subjective. To ignore this and say he deserves to be dropped is narrative based posting in my view. Personally I think it's a very impressive return considering he keeps randomly getting dropped whenever he starts to build momentum.
Mkhitaryan didn't play for us early in the season barring 5 mins off the bench here and there. His first start was the City game in on September 10th. His next PL appearance was as a sub at the end of November and his next start was December 4th. That was one start in almost 4 months. So no he wasn't poor in several matches. He just wasn't playing. Then when he finally did start playing he played like he always does because he's a brilliant player. He was the best player in Germany last year ffs. That's not a managerial masterstroke. That's wasting a brilliant player for 4 months.
Great post.
Absolutely clueless by Mourinho, the treatment of Martial and Mkh. I would say it has cost us the league and possibly top 4
Comparison to the rest in that time period:
Excellent mins/goal or assist ratio. Significantly better than any of the others. Lingard really stands out there. I think it was Pogue or someone that was banging on about how Lingard has been left just as often as Martial therefore Martial can't complain. Stupid argument as this table proves
Yeap,Id say so.
Did he celebrate any of the 2 goals he set up ?
He's a miserable sod, seemed desperate to score and a bit pissed off when he didn't get the ball when he thought he should've.
But that never seems to effect his decision making. Laid it on a plate for Mkhitaryan, when he might have been tempted to take it himself with the game he was having. Brilliant player and my man of the match.
But that never seems to effect his decision making. Laid it on a plate for Mkhitaryan, when he might have been tempted to take it himself with the game he was having. Brilliant player and my man of the match.
I don't think Mourinho's angle is 'you're paying crap', I think its 'you're capable of so much more'.
A top player playing ok is more frustrating than an ok player playing ok.
If he steps up his desire and strengthens his mentality he can be a match winner at any level.
If he wilts under criticism he wont fulfill his potential.
A top player playing ok is more frustrating than an ok player playing ok.
If he steps up his desire and strengthens his mentality he can be a match winner at any level.
If he wilts under criticism he wont fulfill his potential.
There are Pics of him hugging his teammates. Don't know if hat will suffice.
But was he smiling ? What did his eyes say ?
I agree with this. If ever there was a player that I'd have thought was the most difficult to manage when it came to form, it was Wayne Rooney ; the streakiest player I've ever seen. His performances went up as down, as did his weight and fitness but somehow Fergie managed to get the best out of the bugger. He didn't do it my this hard line approach. Sometimes, players have to be played into form especially when the have such quality or just handled with care. I call crap on the managerial masterstroke
Stop me if I'm getting too technical here, but is part of his problem that he's... a bit of a pussy?
He's a big guy but he always loses any kind of tussle, and he's way too easy to jockey off the ball. He falls over whenever he feels any kind of contact, and when someone does hack the ball away from him he immediately gives it up for lost, letting the opponent run the ball away unchallenged.
Jose should make him watch a full-match video of Herrera. Got about half Martial's bodyweight but he does twice as much with it.
He's a big guy but he always loses any kind of tussle, and he's way too easy to jockey off the ball. He falls over whenever he feels any kind of contact, and when someone does hack the ball away from him he immediately gives it up for lost, letting the opponent run the ball away unchallenged.
Jose should make him watch a full-match video of Herrera. Got about half Martial's bodyweight but he does twice as much with it.
Oh right I didnt see him celebrate with the team when we scored.
Yeah, that's not true.
We need to get the lad to subscribe to the I believe I am God, therefore I am Zlatan train of thought. Like RvP before him, he can truly look downright depressed when he feels things aren't going his way. Still, I think he did well today. I also noticed that despite how much you could tell he wanted to score, I was amazed he wasn't selfish at all once he was in the box- that takes a lot of restraint. Good on him.
For me I look beyond stats as sometimes it's not the measurable things that wins games. A players stats can look great yet the teams still losing games. The problem Martial has is a one trick pony, a very very good trick but pretty much the one. Modern forwards need to be more fluid in their play now most go with a front three. He's 21 and learning the game but sadly modern football, there's no benefit of time made worse as we are 3 seasons and 6 transfer windows behind everyone else. Jose isn't building a team to finish top four, he's wants one to win it.
Harsh as it might be but currently there are maybe 4/5 players that have too many in and out games where Jose is looking for consistent 8/10 performances. You never know which Martial is gonna turn up and when.
Harsh as it might be but currently there are maybe 4/5 players that have too many in and out games where Jose is looking for consistent 8/10 performances. You never know which Martial is gonna turn up and when.
I hope martial is learning that jose is right, that martial belongs has an attacking winger, not a striker, listen to zlatan and jose, not an agent looking for his next paycheck. Martial really needs to fire his agent, because the advice he is getting is a shit sandwich lol. He's wonderful from the left able to roam about not leading the line, both mkhi and martial really have that ability to move sides about, and today showed that when you're so much better than the opposition.
Sounds like Mourinho is getting a good return out of him when he plays him, no? I'm not saying its down to Mourinho but i'm just suggesting stats can be twisted, they are not completely objective, just watch the game, obviously martial can be class but there are many games he isn't and many games he doesn't involve himself enough in, which isn't good enough to be a guaranteed starter
On the flip side Rashford was our best player in the last game playing in the same position so are we not hampering his momentum too, by dropping him? we have three players out wide who have played well in their most recent games in mkhi martial and rashford, so they are competing for two spots. Your argument is basically martial has the most talent give it to him, because he hasn't been in such good form that he's earned one of the spots automatically rashford last week was better than either of martials last two performances but not as good as him tonight. That doesn't foster good competition for places in the squad and doesn't let players know if they work hard in training they will get a spot. Martial was good today and I would start him and Mkhi against Hull, but he has had games where he hasn't played well hence we have looked elsewhere for a solution, Mourinho isn't some newbie who doesn't know what he is doing, he is creating a certain competitive edge in the squad and Martial will step up with it hopefully. He had long, poor patches last season as well, and it pays to have alternatives around who can play
Yeah good point every player who has played well the season before has walked into a new league and hit the ground running, its why I've got both Di maria and Falcao shirts, Players take time to adapt, Mkhi was working on that got injured came back and worked his way up the pecking order, he did a good job and now whenever he plays he stands outs.
I understand where you're coming from but it equates to saying just play the best players, squad dynamics are a lot less straightforward than that.
We aren't going to agree on this.
Relying on that table as a fair comparison is a stupid argument, that's for sure. @Damien 's already posted stats showing Mourinho's clear preference for starting Martial in easier fixtures at Old Trafford. I don't think him and Jesse have played many games together so assume the opposite is true for Lingard. So you're comparing apples with oranges. And that's not even getting into the discussion about whether goals and assists are the only metric that matters in assessing individual performances (hint: they're not)
Anyway. I thought he did well today. Useless through the middle (I've never understood why so many think this is his best position) but did well on the left in the second half. So not quite the "magnificent" performance Jose mentioned but surely good enough to get the nod against Hull.
You and me both, mate.
I'll echo this. He's really not very good at leading the line. Much better as a wide forward
It's almost surreal. I feel like he must have played a bunch of games as a striker that I somehow never got to see.
I like that though, Scholes and other pundits and armchair pundits last season kept moaning about how he didn't look bothered when he missed or when he scored, when you're playing well people say that's being cool, but when you're playing badly people jump on your back. Showing his frustration for not scoring shows either he has started to care more or he is more conscious of how his body language is perceived. I think its that he knows he needs to take his chances, which is great.
He did have a few games last season playing well centrally, most notably Southampton early in the season where he bagged two.
He has always been better out wide the reality of it is when he was playing badly last season people tried to blame position, it tends to be a go to reaction with certain fans if a player is out of form switch their position and all will be good, or its the managers fault for misusing them.
Regardless of his ability to play up front, today was not the best of matches to judge him on it, as we never really gained a foothold in the midfield in the first half. He is not effective playing with his back to the goal and being double marked, but can be useful playing off the shoulder of the defender and running onto through balls the same way he does out wide.
Yeah, I think you're spot on about people needing something to blame when a favourite player underperforms. Happens all the time. I remember the Southampton game. One of those goals was a crappy back pass handed to him on a plate, wasn't it? I'm sure he's capable of playing through the middle. He's consistently been much better out wide though. It's a mystery why so many people still don't accept this.
How often do you think the opposition leaves enough space for us to play a through ball centrally?
Which is something that every striker in the modern game needs to cope with. The days of "a big 'un and a little 'un" up front are long gone. All the best modern strikers have to be capable of holding their own against two central defenders, as well as running in behind.
It was yeah, but a tidy bottom right finish, which was his specialty at the time. He also looked a handful all game, he started with a proper explosion, you could have put him centre back and he'd have still got you excited. He definitely is a wide player, it suits his strengths completely which at this stage cf doesn't, one day maybe but it would be reducing the impact of his dribbling and ability to run at space.
Was strange when we scored our goals today. All the players ran to celebrate with the scorer and he just walks over each time. He's an amazing talent but he doesn't help himself.
He's just a bit of a cold fish. In his first few months at the club everyone lapped it up. "Look at him. He's got ice in his veins. Such a cool dude." Now we're worried he's unhappy. Nothing has changed though. I don't think he'll ever wear his heart on his sleeve.
I agree, I'm never disappointed whenever Martial is picked! Often however, I am left disappointed with his performance (and his sour face/attitude) over 90 minutes.
He, and our other young forwards including Rashford it must be said, are still relatively inexperienced and make too many poor decisions.
Mou knows his player better than we do; He put pressure on Martial to "show up" today in his pre game press conference and finally in the second half Martial showed why he should be considered.
And you were attending every practice session were you? Chatting with the player, hanging out in the physio room determining with your vast experience that he was back to his best and ready to play in Premiership?
Lot's of players have been "the best" before coming to Utd & then struggled under the pressure. There's no reason to believe that Mou hasn't done right by Mkhi.
- Status