[Dobbs]

That danger always exists with Jose but I really hope things don't go sour. He's doing a lot of really good things. His signings have been great and we're definitely improving and showing better character as a team. He's faar from perfect but I feel the positives are outweighing the negatives right now.
Maybe I'm being naive but I genuinely feel this may be the club where he finally settles down and builds something lasting.

I think there is a danger of losing Martial at some stage if his relationship with Jose isn't a good one. Players will stay were they feel loved and supported. If he doesn't feel the support of his manager he may look elsewhere. He's not English, he didn't grow up supporting United. He has no real reason to be loyal to the club. I'm hopeful that Jose at least recognises his talent. If he sees him as someone who will help us win trophies he will want to keep him around. But we've seen over the years he doesn't always get it right. I would hate to see us lose him because I truly believe he is a special talent.

I think if Mourinho tries to make him a hard working left midfielder as is often his want then you could see Martial leaving. As Martial will never be that player and nor should he. It'd be a waste of his talent.

There's just a doubt Mourinho will never fully trust a flair player out wide. Unless maybe that player is ridiculously good.

 

[SteveW]

Here are his 7 goals or assists from his last 7 starts

LC 30-11-2016 Manchester United 4 : 1 West Ham - 2 goals
PL 04-12-2016 Everton 1 : 1 Manchester United - 1 assist
PL 31-12-2016 Manchester United 2 : 1 Middlesbrough - 1 goal
FAC 07-01-2017 Manchester United 4 : 0 Reading - 1 goal
FAC 29-01-2017 Manchester United 4 : 0 Wigan - 2 assists.

5 of his goals or assists have come in the cup competitions against weakened oppositions. And I'm not sure whether the Everton assist (where Zlatan lobbed the keeper) should count as an assist.

He can only score and assist in the games he's picked for surely?

 

[Scholesy]

. And I'm not sure whether the Everton assist (where Zlatan lobbed the keeper) should count as an assist.

Would love to know what you mean?

 

[LouisDanGaal]

You've got to be kidding? Talk about a pot calling a kettle black. You've some neck! Lets leave it.

Really a row of green smilies? Its like arguing with an annoying brother when they're trying to bait you back in!

Agreed though!

 

[SteveW]

I think if Mourinho tries to make him a hard working left midfielder as is often his want then you could see Martial leaving. As Martial will never be that player and nor should he. It'd be a waste of his talent.

There's just a doubt Mourinho will never fully trust a flair player out wide. Unless maybe that player is ridiculously good.

I've no problem with the boy being made work hard. It won't kill him to defend and he's generally been willing to do his fair share of tracking back recently.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

I think if Mourinho tries to make him a hard working left midfielder as is often his want then you could see Martial leaving. As Martial will never be that player and nor should he. It'd be a waste of his talent.

There's just a doubt Mourinho will never fully trust a flair player out wide. Unless maybe that player is ridiculously good.

He did it with Hazard and that wasn't exactly a waste of his talents, it improved him and gave him that edge to become the best player in the league.

 

[Dobbs]

I've no problem with the boy being made work hard. It won't kill him to defend and he's generally been willing to do his fair share of tracking back recently.

Agree as long as it doesn't stop him from being the attacking threat he should be.

He won't ever be another Willian though. If Mourinho wants him to be in can see it not working it.

He did it with Hazard and that wasn't exactly a waste of his talents, it improved him and gave him that edge to become the best player in the league.

Isn't Hazard the exact kind of thing I'm talking about? He wasn't producing the kind of defensice duties Mourinho wanted so he was dropped, his form collapsed and ultimately it didn't work out. Or have I remembered that incorrectly?

 

[Devil81]

Did he celebrate any of the 2 goals he set up ?

No.

I'm starting to wonder if he's actually a bit of a loner in our squad, maybe that's part of the reason he's supposedly not happy.

As for his ability, it's there for all to see, but to compare him to Robben and Sanchez at this stage is too much for me, he's not shown anywhere near the desire of play them two players show week in week out. He drifts in and out of games and can go completely missing, they play out of their skin every match.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

Agree as long as it doesn't stop him from being the attacking threat he should be.

He won't ever be another Willian though. If Mourinho wants him to be in can see it not working it.



Isn't Hazard the exact kind of thing I'm talking about? He wasn't producing the kind of defensice duties Mourinho wanted so he was dropped, his form collapsed and ultimately it didn't work out. Or have I remembered that incorrectly?

Well Mourinho publicly berated him for not doing defensive duties and offering enough to the team in the first couple of months. Hazard worked on it and in the second season Hazard played the best football he has ever played with that defensive contribution as well as what he was offering going forward. Mourinho certainly changed Hazard and made him hungrier but in the end Hazard got sick of it and wanted to play centrally to avoid those duties but wasn't allowed so just refused to play well.

 

[MiceOnMeth]

No.

I'm starting to wonder if he's actually a bit of a loner in our squad, maybe that's part of the reason he's supposedly not happy.

As for his ability, it's there for all to see, but to compare him to Robben and Sanchez at this stage is too much for me, he's not shown anywhere near the desire of play them two players show week in week out. He drifts in and out of games and can go completely missing, they play out of their skin every match.

.... Hes 21. 21 year old Arjen Robben was as frustrating as Ronaldo at a similar age, who ever is comparing him to them two obviously mean potential not his current playing ability

 

[Manny]

He can only score and assist in the games he's picked for surely?

Does he deserve to start games over other forward who are delivering just as much as him?

Spoiler

 

[LouisDanGaal]

No.

I'm starting to wonder if he's actually a bit of a loner in our squad, maybe that's part of the reason he's supposedly not happy.

As for his ability, it's there for all to see, but to compare him to Robben and Sanchez at this stage is too much for me, he's not shown anywhere near the desire of play them two players show week in week out. He drifts in and out of games and can go completely missing, they play out of their skin every match.

I don't think he is a loner. This link shows him playing fifa with some of the others, he is clearly one of them and smiling and laughing throughout, its quite contrasted with his on the pitch persona.

 

[Dobbs]

Well Mourinho publicly berated him for not doing defensive duties and offering enough to the team in the first couple of months. Hazard worked on it and in the second season Hazard played the best football he has ever played with that defensive contribution as well as what he was offering going forward. Mourinho certainly changed Hazard and made him hungrier but in the end Hazard got sick of it and wanted to play centrally to avoid those duties but wasn't allowed so just refused to play well.

Yeah so in the end Hazard was dropped for not working hard enough off the ball. That's after being crowned player of the year just a few months earlier. Just checked and that's exactly what Mourinho put it down to.

He likes a certain type out wide. Nothing wrong with that but asking flair players like Hazard and Martial to do that job will never last. Either the manager or the player will get fed up.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah so in the end Hazard was dropped for not working hard enough off the ball. That's after being crowned player of the year just a few months earlier. Just checked and that's exactly what Mourinho put it down to.

He likes a certain type out wide. Nothing wrong with that but asking flair players like Hazard and Martial to do that job will never last.

It's not exactly been an enduring problem over his whole career. He's got great results from flair players wherever he's worked.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

Yeah so in the end Hazard was dropped for not working hard enough off the ball. That's after being crowned player of the year just a few months earlier. Just checked and that's exactly what Mourinho put it down to.

He likes a certain type out wide. Nothing wrong with that but asking flair players like Hazard and Martial to do that job will never last.

I was arguing with the point that it would be a waste of talent as I said hazard played his best football for Mourinho. Whether they will do that forever depends on their mentality. With Madrid he let Ronaldo off defensive duties by changing strategy, but it would take Martial becoming an incredible player to get to that level where he can play out wide and be absolved of tracking back.

 

[Thisistheone]

Good 2nd half. Hope he starts Wednesday.

 

[JPRouve]

It's not exactly been an enduring problem over his whole career. He's got great results from flair players wherever he's worked.

By giving them freedom. Ronaldo, Ozil and Di Maria were free under Mourinho while Ancelotti for example asked more from Di Maria. I think that Mourinho is influenced by the PL.

 

[Dobbs]

It's not exactly been an enduring problem over his whole career. He's got great results from flair players wherever he's worked.

When it comes to wide players I think we've seen enough to know he prioritises industry over flair. That's not the same as saying he's never valued or used a creative player.

 

[In Rainbows]

I'll echo this. He's really not very good at leading the line. Much better as a wide forward

From last season I liked his play as a central striker. It wasn't so much that he was bad as a central striker, and good as a wide forward. It was more that he did better as a wide forward. At least that's how I remember it. I still would like to see him play as a striker a little more. I thought his linking up with others in that position was great. Of course, as I said, this is all based on last season. I like how he plays in both positions.

 

[unimaginative_name]

Who said that Martial wants to play a CF? Why did Keown keep harping about how Martial is wanting to play as a CF?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

When it comes to wide players I think we've seen enough to know he prioritises industry over flair. That's not the same as saying he's never valued or used a creative player.

I agree. I'm just saying it's not a major problem. It's not as though Fergie didn't expect his wide players to put a shift in.

 

[berbatrick]

I agree. I'm just saying it's not a major problem. It's not as though Fergie didn't expect his wide players to put a shift in.

And it's not as though Martial behaves like Cristiano when the ball is lost.

 

[Dobbs]

I agree. I'm just saying it's not a major problem. It's not as though Fergie didn't expect his wide players to put a shift in.

I only think it's a problem if he asks it of a player who's not willing or capable. Usually ends up with said player being dropped or sold. No matter how good he is going forwards.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I only think it's a problem if he asks it of a player who's not willing or capable. Usually ends up with said player being dropped or sold. No matter how good he is going forwards.

Any player who's not willing or capable of putting a shift in needs to be outrageously productive if he wants to play for a top team. Martial has a long way to go to fit in that category.

Personally, I prefer all our players to work hard. Even the talented ones.

 

[SteveW]

Does he deserve to start games over other forward who are delivering just as much as him?

Spoiler

We all know he had a very poor start to the season so his season long starts are down on what he's capable of. I think recent form should be weighted a bit more heavily. It's better to pick the players in form. And all things being equal I think the better player should generally get the nod.

 

[::sonny::]

Sad man at pathological level, he has to leave.

 

[djdhrubs]

He definitely hasn't played long enough down the middle for anyone to definitively say it's not his best position, or will be his best position. He's perfectly fine as a wide forward particularly if he's playing ahead of a full back and midfield that allow him to stay forward. But the attributes are there to play as a central striker.

In my simplistic viewpoint he's got a lot of attributes similar to Henry. Henry was converted from a wide forward to a striker by Wenger and from memory looked fairly rubbish for quite a portion of his 1st season at Arsenal playing down the middle before suddenly working it out and exploding into life. Martial hasn't had that run of games down the middle yet and I suspect he won't unless Ibra and possibly Rashford are simultaneously injured for a few weeks.

That's a bit of a shame in a way because his pace down the middle would be interesting and give us something we don't have right now.

 

[Silverman]

Who said that Martial wants to play a CF? Why did Keown keep harping about how Martial is wanting to play as a CF?

I can remember an interview where he says CF is his preferred position.

 

[BringNaniBack]

Was poor first half but that is understandable given the pressure he has needlessly been put under partly by the media and partly by the manager. He was good in the second half and even when he doesn't play well he makes something happen. He is so dangerous driving a players with the ball at his feet, there isn't many more exciting players to watch. I always feel something is going to happen when he gets the ball. Needs to be starting most games in that left wing spot.

 

[Manny]

Was poor first half but that is understandable given the pressure he has needlessly been put under partly by the media and partly by the manager.

And partly by his agent

 

[Grunge]

Mou has 1000% messed up Martial and MKH this season. MKH was electric when he came on vs Hull (when the weather was awful). Then not seen for months. Took us to December for MKH and Martial to start together. By that time, out of the title race.

Martial seems a shy person and this constant mind games can't be doing him good. He is showing some more output now, so there is no reason to drop him now.

He needs to play 75% of games from now until May.

You may be right Scholesy, but I have to believe that Jose wants (us) to win as much as anyone! Why would he leave Mkhi out long-term after a great game unless he had a great reason ... I doubt it was just to spite him? Who knows, maybe there is/was something we are not privvy to that caused the decision other than injury but it seems, Mkhi has nothing but good things to say about his experience so far?

And as for messing up Martial, I don't know how much personal experience you have in people management, but it's never an easy game and it's particularly hard when your "employee" mopes around with a frown on his mug all day long like Martial does. Maybe he's negative in training too? Maybe he act like a baby and needs a smack sometimes?

Mind Games? Martial needs to learn a lesson or two from Ibra ... sure, be arrogant, make use of your ego when necessary but FFS, ENJOY your opportunity to play football for Manchester Utd & show it! Don't act like the world owes you something, on the contrary, United have paid a lot for your talent, put it to good use and at least look like you're having fun.

 

[Member 105568]

It's not exactly been an enduring problem over his whole career. He's got great results from flair players wherever he's worked.

True. In one season at Chelsea they played really good stuff with Duff and Robben on the sides of Drogba. The difference was that Drogba was in his prime compared to Ibra and there were quality full backs on either side too. I see Martial as a side player in a 4-3-3 not a centre forward or 4-2-3-1 winger.

 

[bucky]

It's almost surreal. I feel like he must have played a bunch of games as a striker that I somehow never got to see.

Yep, that time when he displaced Berbatov at Monaco, before we signed him. His second game and his first start for us was as a striker, when he scored 2 against Southampton.

 

[surf]

He and Mkhi thrived once the game opened up in the last half hour or so. Martial just looks better on the left than right or centre.

 

[stepic]

2 assists and people banging on about him not smiling. He was great second half; if Bastian hadn't raised his leg he would have had a goal to go along with the assists.

 

[kouroux]

Well then why quote my post that was rebuking the argument over him being inconsistent if you agree? Inconsistent in a position he hasn't played this season(until today).

I mean it's no problem I just don't get it.

I could quote to agree with you, to disagree you or to partially agree with you. In the end, just read what is written and don't necessarily interpret things.

 

[Fracture90]

Yes, because many like you including himself and his agent think he should be the no.9 up top. Fair enough. Mou starts him, Martial does nothing. Handling him badly would be yanking him at the half. But moves him to LW, where he flourishes. Marital is a talent but hey, maybe he should trust his manager just once in a while. Maybe Mou does have Martial's development and performances at heart.

In all fairness he didn't play that position in more than a year and now when he did, he got to play it in a makeshift team which was pretty horrible in the first half.

Whoever played at number 9 in this game was doomed as proven by Rooney whom after he was put there was pretty much completely cut out.

Also Mourinho's decision to start him there is a bit odd considering even if he performed "magnificently" doubt that Mourinho would bench Zlatan in order to play Martial there vs. Hull.

 

[11101]

Does he deserve to start games over other forward who are delivering just as much as him?

Spoiler

I think that shows exactly why he should start. Assists and take ons in attack are the main things we need from our wingers/wide forwards.

 

[Turamb]

He doesn't suit the role of a lone striker in 4-2-3-1

Might do well in a pair with Rash if we play 4-4-2 in a a couple of years, but with the team we have right now his best position is out left

 

[kouroux]

He doesn't suit the role of a lone striker in 4-2-3-1

Might do well in a pair with Rash if we play 4-4-2 in a a couple of years, but with the team we have right now his best position is out left

It is as simple as that.