Well it should be easier to have a magnificent game against Wigan rather than the usual games he's played. If he can't "dominate" against them then his "form" is probably not that good at the moment. Wigan are currently at 21st place in the Championship.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
Well it should be easier to have a magnificent game against Wigan rather than the usual games he's played. If he can't "dominate" against them then his "form" is probably not that good at the moment. Wigan are currently at 21st place in the Championship.
Don't give me that bullshiiit please i already stated that i want what's the best for UTD and IMO that includes having Martial at least on the bench against Stoke especially after good performances he has had recently.
Shall we go back to the discussion from few days ago when you're saying many people had better performances on LW than Martial did but somehow you're unable to point fingers at them everytime i ask you. Instead you choose to ignore it conveniently.
No mate, I am nobody's lawyer. The only thing I have been is a devoted United fan. Therefore I want the best for my team. This year I see huge progress and I see the best football we have played since Fergie left. I think we are on the right way and I would rather trust our manager than a player who has to decide what he wants to do in his life. If he wants to become the next Ronaldo I would passionately cheer his name. If he wants to become the next Ravel Morrison, well, then that would be a pity...But it was a pity with all those players I mentioned. I have not committed suicide because of them I just kept on following passionately my team. That is what I am, someone who wants the best for his beloved club...
Who are you to decide who is going to play and who is not going to play? Do you have you pro license and what is your biography.Which teams have you managed and what have you won in your managerial career. If you are that good why I have not seen your name running for the United job? Are you Carlo? I got it you are Sven from China, still angry that Fergie did not retire in 2002 and you did not get the job...
Excuse me mate, no offence made but I do care who you think should start or not. I'd rather trust our manager...If you had won something in you managerial career like the Champions League I apologize most sincerely...
Good man Ibra. Just what the club needs.
Human decency? You go tell that to all the boys who left our club. There's no room for that in a huge club. We treat players with a lot of respect. They earn their money and should never complain.
Uhm, okay!
There you go again the same contradiction like few days back.
You're obviously a Mourinho lover and you're bothered by all this criticism towards his decisions lately despite you claiming it's not.
First of all this is a forum in which we're all free to express our opinions.
Secondly I'm not the one that's deciding who's going to play for us, obviously.
And lastly i wasn't aware you need a managerial licence in order to comment our manager's decisions on forum
Please make up your mind, you do or do not care about my opinion?
Uhm, okay!
There you go again the same contradiction like few days back.
You're obviously a Mourinho lover and you're bothered by all this criticism towards his decisions lately despite you claiming it's not.
First of all this is a forum in which we're all free to express our opinions.
Secondly I'm not the one that's deciding who's going to play for us, obviously.
And lastly i wasn't aware you need a managerial licence in order to comment our manager's decisions on forum
Please make up your mind, you do or do not care about my opinion?
I definitely do not care , where did you see contradiction again? Should I write it in a different language so that you can get it? I do not care about your opinion. Read it slowly and repeat it. I care about United ...Is the problem that I do not care about your opinion but I still answer to you? Is that it? Well that can be done in a forum, you know. If you see any contradiction in that I guess you have mental issues but that is not my problem.
Again I think my standard and you standard greatly differ. In my opinion Martial has been mediocre in yours he has been something like Giggsy. You definitely do not need a license to write in a forum but that is why I would rather trust one of the most successful managers in the world than you.
Now about the Mourinho lover part, yes I am definitely starting to love him because the team is playing really well, is a joy to watch most of the time and I have seen real progress. I am optimistic about the future and the manager has won me.
You say Martial has been our best LW player this season, I am saying he is not. Jose is saying he is not. I may be wrong, I do not know, but then I would rather believe Jose than you. You can write whatever you want about how good he was because he did a cross against Liverpool or because he had a good game against a Championship team but I do not agree with that. Throughout the season he has been mediocre at best. His contribution is close to 0. When you keep saying one and the same thing all the time the only thing I can do is to stop caring what you think. When you watch Martial, you see Messi. When I watch Martial I see a player who has talent but looks lazy, does not work for the team and contributes a lot less than other players who can play in this position. I am saying all the time that he possesses special talent but it is up to him to fulfill that potential. If the manager thinks that he does not deserve to play that is fine with me. I trust him. I do not understand Martial's body language or his mentality. I will be the happiest person in the world when he starts delivering week in and week out but at the moment he is not. I really do not understand on what basis he has to be an automatic starter. I really see no point writing one and the same thing all the time. Now you are going to write but he was very good against Reading and Liverpool and I have to start writing the same thing all over again. The only match-winning performance from him was against Boro. He was definitely our best player then and he plays like that every game this discussion would be pointless. But that is a couple of games for the whole season. That is simply not good enough for a player worth 50 million quid. I am saying all the time that he is our greatest talent but he simply has been mediocre. That's the bottom line...
To me it's not just about his ability. No one I think questions that but for me he needs to offer more. Jose teams have players that leave everything on the pitch, they give you nothing easily and you know you've been in a game with them. Martial appears extremely lazy and only comes alive when the balls at his feet. Compare him to any other Utd forward player and generally he's overworked by all. The young players with less ability work harder than him and have been left open to be criticised because of that. Rashford should have stopped the cross against Arsenal but at least he was there.
I've seen him lose the ball and he looks to the sky or moan that he was fouled rather than getting the ball back.
Martial is a Utd player ability wise but attitude and work rate definitely is not. I'm a fan of his football but for me unless his attitude on the pitch changes, I'll lose no sleep him being sold to make room for someone more a team player in the traditions of the club.
If I'm brutally honest only his ability saves him, as everything else isn't that dissimilar to Zaha or Depay.
I've seen him lose the ball and he looks to the sky or moan that he was fouled rather than getting the ball back.
Martial is a Utd player ability wise but attitude and work rate definitely is not. I'm a fan of his football but for me unless his attitude on the pitch changes, I'll lose no sleep him being sold to make room for someone more a team player in the traditions of the club.
If I'm brutally honest only his ability saves him, as everything else isn't that dissimilar to Zaha or Depay.
Last edited:
That is what I am trying to say all the time. He possesses special talent but his attitude is pathetic. His body language as you have mentioned is of a player who does not care. He has to change in order to play regularly for our team. Having a special talent is not enough to be a top player. You have to work tirelessly and to try to improve. There is no other way. Everybody likes players who are electrifying who can beat players with pace, etc. I am no different. Nevertheless I understand that the team should be put first and obviously he is not giving the team what he should be giving and therefore he does not play regularly. If that changes I am pretty much sure he would be one of the first players on our team sheet...
Oh this is fun
how about you actually go back and read what you yourself wrote?I asked you once if you're more bothered because we are questioning Mourinho's decision not to play Martial and you said nope, yet you take every criticism pointed at Mourinho very personal.
Again when you don't have any facts you resort to inventing some. Did i say that Martial is our best performer on LW this season?
Also did i say he's to be our automatic starter?
Mate get a grip and stop inventing stuff please, you have confused me with someone i think.
How can you say that Martial's contribution is 0 when he's got 9 or so goals/assists in total, are you having a laugh?
What I'm afraid is that Mourinho's poor record with youth management will drive away our last season's best player and great potential.
Seriously either get some facts or go back and actually try to read and understand what I've said before instead of making false accusations regarding things i haven't said.
Couldn't agree more but I dont think this is part of his personality....I think he's the kind of player you build your team around and accept that your not gonna get a shift out him. I'm sure there are teams that will do that but even Ibra here is expected to work hard for the team....
Going by Mourinho latest comments, I think he is handling this situation well. Our wide attackers are not scoring enough and he is challenging Martial (the most talented) to aspire to a higher level
His body language has been the same since he joined. I remember people praising him for his composure and coolness and now he hits a bit of poorish form suddenly he doesn't care.
Yes I cannot understand that attitude of a player who can be one of the best in the world but he does not work towards that and simply does not care. Obviously you have a lot of free time and can look through my posts some time ago and take some words out of the context and I still do not get what you are trying to say. Rashford, Mata, Miki, Lingard have contributed more in an attacking position than Martial this season. What of that did you not understand? As I said it previously read it slowly and repeat it to understand it. It is only natural that what every one of the posters here think has little bearing. The most important thing is what the manager thinks and as of now I am pretty much happy to stick by him and love what he is doing. Obviously you are not or I do not understand what your point is or what you are trying to say? Let me ask you, you are saying that our manager is not doing a good job, the team is not making any progress and Martial has been our top attacking performer and should be picked ahead of Miki, Mata, Lingard, and Rashford. Well, in my opinion that is complete bullsht and you can take words of what I am posting , compose sentences, write poetry and do whatever you want with the abundance of leisure you obviously have. Nevertheless I do not agree with 99% of what you are saying as basically you are not saying anything to prove your point and prove Jose wrong. I would rather trust him than you based on your records.
Oh I'm loving this!
Yep, ton of free time today, no work Saturday and I'm finding any excuse not to watch "Moana" with gf so I'm here.
Finding posts is actually quite easy, found them in less than 2 minutes.
Be kind and tell me what exactly have i taked out of context? Those are all your opening words that i quoted.
Please can you tell me exactly how and in which games did them players you mentioned contributed more than Martial.
I quoted your posts in which you first say you do care and subsequently saying you do not care about my opinion. Mate the fact you keep ignoring them obvious things i pointed only proves my point. 
Again have i ever said that our manager isn't doing a good job?
Or when I've said that we're not doing good
Or when i said that Martial should be an automatic starter
Btw since when is Mata considered as an option on the LW?
Last edited:
The only player who had an unplayable performance this season was Martial against Boro, no other player in our whole squad can do what Martial can do to the opposition, not even Zlatan, forget Pogba, Mkhitaryan etc., they are nowhere near Martial's caliber. If any player from our squad can rich the levels of Ronaldo and Messi, that's only Martial, none else.
Yes, Martial have had his fair share of poor matches this season, but so did every player in our squad? Why pick on Martial? Because he threatens to be the biggest star in our club? Is that why Mourinho is afraid of him? Mourinho's treatment of Martial is inexplicable.
Yes, Martial have had his fair share of poor matches this season, but so did every player in our squad? Why pick on Martial? Because he threatens to be the biggest star in our club? Is that why Mourinho is afraid of him? Mourinho's treatment of Martial is inexplicable.
Sorry don't agree. He's a good player but Ronaldo and Messi potential? Sorry not seen that but that's not my argument. Not sure anyone is questioning his ability but his attitude on the pitch absolutely stinks full stop.
To much talk about him imo. Hes actually played well in most games, not fantastic but certainly not poorly. The media really is a pain in the ass these days.
I said this in earlier post that his attitude is the same as it was last season, last season he was seen as cold and calculated now he's deemed lazy and disinterested. I wouldn't read into his body language too much. Although there is no doubt that he is being massively over hyped by portions of our fan base as to how good he was last season and how good he will become. I'm sure he will go on to be a great player whether it be here or elsewhere but messi or Ronaldo level! I don't see it.
Oh I'm loving this!
Yep, ton of free time today, no work Saturday and I'm finding any excuse not to watch "Moana" with gf so I'm here.
Finding posts is actually quite easy, found them in less than 2 minutes.
Be kind and tell me what exactly have i taked out of context? Those are all your opening words that i quoted.
Please can you tell me exactly how and in which games did them players you mentioned contributed more than Martial.
I quoted your posts in which you first say you do care and subsequently saying you do not care about my opinion. Mate the fact you keep ignoring them obvious things i pointed only proves my point. 
Again have i ever said that our manager isn't doing a good job?
Or when I've said that we're not doing good
Or when i said that Martial should be an automatic starter
Btw since when is Mata considered as an option on the LW?
Then what are you trying to say because I am totally bedazzled. What are you trying to say exactly?
Mata has been a left winger since his early carrier. He played on the left wing for Valencia for 5 years. He has played on the left wing for Chelsea occasionally as well so that was his natural position when he started playing football. But you surely know that and you have forgotten it, have you? Anyway this has nothing to do with our formation and tactics. I just wanted to answer your question about Mata and left wing.
Now about our tactics and formation. May I ask whether we play with wingers because I think you have no idea how United play? From what I have seen we have 6 attacking players that compete for two forward positions. We do not play with wingers, mate. Inside forwards more or less but not wingers. I find it difficult to discuss tactics with you as I basically think from what you have said about Mata that you have hardly watched any football. May I ask you when you talk so much about Martial as a left winger how have you concluded that he is a left winger? Therefore no matter on which side of the pitch Mata or Miki play they tend to go in the middle and leave the space for the fullbacks to go forward. Martial and Rashford play a little bit differently as they are more direct type of players but most of the time are very poor defensively and to play under Jose a player has to contribute to the defensive part of the game...
I am not talking about a single game against Reading or something like that. What I am saying is that in the course of the season Rashford, Mata, Miki, Lingard, and now even Rooney have contributed more to the team than Martial. How do you want me to answer you in a different manner. Replay all the games? Watch all the games and if you understand a little bit about football you will see it. Rashford has changed the direction of a couple of games with his direct runs at the position as he provides penetration and everything. He has won us games this season...Lingard has provided some good crosses for a couple of goals, scored the odd goal there but he has been more important for the team than Martial because of his workrate. I think that he is not good enough to play here but at the moment he has done more than Martial to be in the team. Mata has decided games on his own this season with vital goals and assists. Miki? I think that I do not have to write anything to justify why Miki has to be picked ahead of Martial based on their performance this season. Now Rooney. Add his equalizer last week to the early games of the season when he had a goal or assist in the first 6-7 games in the league and even he has contributed more. Nevertheless you just said that Martial should not be an automatic starter so I do not understand what you are trying to say...What is your point?
The collective denials in this thread ...
I see. You prefer player dribbling out of field, or run into the box to lose the ball instead.
What the heck does Stam and Becks' situation have to do with Martial?
Agent pressure. "Play him or else".
Broadcast one's feeling to media.
Thinking of oneself being a star (annoyed at shirt number change).
Any of these rings a bell? Yeah.. SAF would tolerate those.
(Of course SAF may not change his shirt number for Zlatan, but by thinking he already made it just after one season, that attitude will never go well with SAF, or any elite manager)
Last edited:
Oh i love it how you're trying to spin it around and still ignoring my questions yet inventing stuff that I've supposedly said.
FYI i as referring to Mata playing as a LW in UTD since he never played there.
Again another attempt at spinning it around by mentioning tactics. We predominantly play 4-3-3 so that is why im referring to those positions as wingers, but if you prefer I'll use "wide forward" term.
I won't get down to that level and indulge your pety attempts at provoking a reaction. So far all you did was inventing stuff and ignoring my questions on which you have no answer.
Rashford changed first Hull game, was great against them few days back as well, had decent performances vs West Ham despite missing a sitter.
Rooney had a great cameo in the last 15 minutes against Hull in that first match on the left wide position (especially for you) and he had another good match there in Europa legue.
Lingard's every match in that position was pretty much awful and Mata never ever drifts in to the left side only in the middle.
Mikhi i do agree is very good at both sides.
But this doesn't change the fact that you can't name exact performances, you're just repeating yourself over and over again saying they deserved more chances then Martial.
His stats fwiw, are no better than our other forwards with Mata, Mikhi and Lingard creating quite a bit more.
With Mourinho challenging Martial to have a magnificent game against Wigan - hope he actually sets out a game plan that will let him do that. From what I can tell Mourinho dropped him after the Liverpool game and many expected him to roast the young fullback but, it was not like we actually went out of our way to take advantage of that - can't dominate when you are 1 on 3 and zero support from teammates or not creating the situations for him that would allow for him to run at the opposition, where he is at his most dangerous.
Not saying it's only Mourinho's fault - Martial needs to buck up as well, take the challenge on. When he is given a couple days off, instead of heading off to Paris, he could have stayed back, got a coach to work one on one with him, show the manager that he is going to do whatever it takes because even from the outside it seems quite clear Mou wants him to fight like hell. Hope he does it because if we really need him. So tired of seeing us line up with 2 of Lingard, Mkhi and Mata who give us zero width and none of our current left fullbacks provide any threat down the left side that it is beyond frustrating.
Not saying it's only Mourinho's fault - Martial needs to buck up as well, take the challenge on. When he is given a couple days off, instead of heading off to Paris, he could have stayed back, got a coach to work one on one with him, show the manager that he is going to do whatever it takes because even from the outside it seems quite clear Mou wants him to fight like hell. Hope he does it because if we really need him. So tired of seeing us line up with 2 of Lingard, Mkhi and Mata who give us zero width and none of our current left fullbacks provide any threat down the left side that it is beyond frustrating.
There was at least some truth in everything he said though
We didn't spend the most last summer, City did. Using our place in the ladder half way through the season is hardly a viable argument, season is far from over. To claim Jose, who's teams have dominated football in a number of countries over the past decade makes stupid decisions "because of his ego" is hardly even worth talking about. Stellar record of letting young players leave, I'd like if someone could give a list of these players who actually made the step up apart from KDB. For all the times he has "wasted" talent, he's also recruited Varane when under arguably the most pressure job in football at Madrid and made him a first team player, implemented Robben into his Chelsea side at 20, signed Bailly and is just about first choice for us, preferred Oscar over the experienced and fan favourite Mata etc etc.
Fact of the matter is, if you're good enough and if you work your bollocks off giving everything you have, Jose will play you, it's that simple. Jose is a manager above all, we need to start winning games and what we need is players who want to give everything for the cause, not players who supposedly threw a tantrum earlier on in the season because the number on the back of their jersey changed ffs. Lingard etc would run through a wall for Jose, it simply doesn't look like Martial has that same aggression yet.
Using him "losing" the dressing room at Real Madrid and Chelsea, who are notorious for player power and undermining managers is hardly a valid argument either. Carlo won the CL with Madrid creating probably their best team in years and they told him to feck off.
It's honestly not that difficult, prove you want to play or you won't. This club was built on winners, not extremely talented entitled sooks, earn your fecking stripes or move on. Lingard might play shit every now and then, but he is picked for his energy and aggression, he is constantly running trying to get involved, that's what you need when things aren't going your way.
Martial isn't irreplaceable, I can think of several players that are several levels above him of similar age and position, he still has everything to prove. Jose knows how talented he is, Martial knows how talented he is, we know, but only Jose and Martial know how his application off the pitch is. His head hasn't looked right since the Euros and divorce anyway, just hasn't looked interested on the pitch.
@Slavkov take your time, ask Mr. Google and Wikipedia.
Like?
This is why we sign guys like zlaten, to show guys like martial you have not arrived yet, and listen to him not idiots influencing him
I think hes actually done ok myself but its the managers view I was getting at as he is still dropping him.
There isn't any. But do expect a few half-witted names from Portugal or Belgium, or somewhere like that.
Perhaps Heath Ledger can return from the dead, reenact his Oscar winning turn as the Joker and cut the corners of Martial's mouth so that he appears to be smiling widely.
Only then will he been putting his head down and doing the right thing. With a proper demeanour, or something like that...
@Fracture90 You make some good points even though I have an opposite view point from you on this issue.
Basically, you have to trust Mourinho. He is our manager and a bloody good one! Yes, he doesn't have a perfect record as he has got many decisions wrong in the past (as you have pointed out). BUT he is considered a world-class manager because the amount of right calls he has taken by far outweigh the bad ones. Remember the winning mentality he infused into Chelsea 1 - that team kept going on an automatic mode even after he left until many key players were too old.
For us fans, its very difficult to know what's going and who is right so we can only hope. Hope that Mourinho can recreate something like the above at our club and not what happened in his second stint at Chelsea.
Having said that, I do feel instinctively that Martial has been taking things a bit granted this season. Seemingly last season's success and accolades have made him a bit over-confident. By shaking things up, maybe Mourinho is taking a hit for the team currently (which is not that large, as I believe Mata is nearly as good and productive for us) but he is trying to shape up a stronger long-term future for Martial. Let's hope this is how it turns out in the end.
Basically, you have to trust Mourinho. He is our manager and a bloody good one! Yes, he doesn't have a perfect record as he has got many decisions wrong in the past (as you have pointed out). BUT he is considered a world-class manager because the amount of right calls he has taken by far outweigh the bad ones. Remember the winning mentality he infused into Chelsea 1 - that team kept going on an automatic mode even after he left until many key players were too old.
For us fans, its very difficult to know what's going and who is right so we can only hope. Hope that Mourinho can recreate something like the above at our club and not what happened in his second stint at Chelsea.
Having said that, I do feel instinctively that Martial has been taking things a bit granted this season. Seemingly last season's success and accolades have made him a bit over-confident. By shaking things up, maybe Mourinho is taking a hit for the team currently (which is not that large, as I believe Mata is nearly as good and productive for us) but he is trying to shape up a stronger long-term future for Martial. Let's hope this is how it turns out in the end.
Yup, I like to see some potency in the attack. Not some random hoofing that results in a random goal.I see. You prefer player dribbling out of field, or run into the box to lose the ball instead.
I don't really have an issue with Jose laying down the gauntlet to Martial. I'm happy that he's come and in public and said impress me and you'll play, and I expect he'll keep his word.
But players like Lingard should be subject to the same treatment for fairness. Martial hasn't been great this season, but he still offers more than Lingard
But players like Lingard should be subject to the same treatment for fairness. Martial hasn't been great this season, but he still offers more than Lingard
Mourinho will never trust young players who he thinks are soft and not ready for the big picture. They will never be ready for the big picture unfortunately under him(according to him). He is very poor when it comes to handling young players and I'm surprised many people here are blinded to that fact. They are just blaming Martial's/Shaw's attitude instead who had NO problem under a disciplinair like LVG.
My prediction is he will chuck Martial/Shaw out the first chance he gets and he will replace them with experienced players and the fans will most probably lap it up blaming the players attitude and professionalism. I hope I'm wrong but I've always feared Mourinho's poor handling of excellent young players, He wants them ready made and perfect.
Edit: Ran out of posts for the day. He only trusts a few younger players and sticks with them like Balotelli, Rashford. The ones he has a doubt on will never make it under him, no matter how talented they are.
My prediction is he will chuck Martial/Shaw out the first chance he gets and he will replace them with experienced players and the fans will most probably lap it up blaming the players attitude and professionalism. I hope I'm wrong but I've always feared Mourinho's poor handling of excellent young players, He wants them ready made and perfect.
Edit: Ran out of posts for the day. He only trusts a few younger players and sticks with them like Balotelli, Rashford. The ones he has a doubt on will never make it under him, no matter how talented they are.
- Status