Nonsense. So why does he keep playing Rashford and why did he sign Bailly. Why did he give out the same treatment to Mikhi, who is much older?
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
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- 8
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 3
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Nonsense. So why does he keep playing Rashford and why did he sign Bailly. Why did he give out the same treatment to Mikhi, who is much older?
Desperate for him to stay and become the player he should.
Neymar, Dembele, Mor, Dybala (who can play out wide as an inside forward), GBJ, Coman etc; are all players just as talented if not more talented than Martial who can operate in his position.
He still has everything to prove, he's had one very good season in a team playing a terrible brand of football where everything went through him, the best players adapt and rise to the occasion, whether Martial can do that, we will see. Like I've said, he's my favourite player at the club and I think the sky is the limit for the kid, but no player is bigger than the club or manager.
All of those players are examples of players that could become a better player than Martial, if they aren't already. Dembele looks a much better prospect and is younger.
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Neymar's 24 years old, and Hazard 26 (to Martial's 21) so I wouldn't call them similar in age. Apart from Dybala, I believe it's arguable that any of the rest are on the same level as Martial at best. Certainly not several levels above like you suggested.
At his age, he's definitely in the top bracket of talent as a wide forward.
Who is GBJ?
Gabriel Jesus, maybe? Which is a bizarre one to mention considering he's now at City if it is him. Emre Mor doesn't even play consistent football, and Coman is in just as mediocre a season. There really are very little out there who, at Martial's age, are as good.
I'm using Neymar's relative ability at a similar age to Martial, whilst also bearing much more responsibility for his National team and so on, he has looked several levels above Martial's last season performances for a while yet now, Martial still has a long way to go to be able to compete with players of that ilk which is the whole point.
All this talk from his camp of running off on loan all because he's being tested is flabbergasting, he's young and hungry with all the talent in the world, he should be doing everything he can to prove Jose and his doubters wrong, he certainly has the ability to. Instead we are getting hot and cold performances where his influence comes and goes regularly throughout the match.
GBJ is Gabriel Jesus, he looks a top player.
Using Coman's season as a way to judge his ability is funny tbf, considering if we were to use Martial's current season as a judge of his ability there would be many players who were apparently better than he was.
Also I don't wear rose tinted glasses, GBJ is a top prospect and I'm gutted we missed out on him, could turn into a Worldie at City if he applies himself and has the luck etc required.
And to be fair, Martial doesn't play consistent football this season for club either and can't even make it into his national team as others are preferred.
I thought the whole point of your post was to show players 'level above Martial' who we could replace him with?
I thought the whole point of your post was to show players 'level above Martial' who we could replace him with?
Sorry, didn't word it right, I should have said players of similiar ability and age who could become several levels above him.
Ultimately, how precocious Neymar and Hazard were at that age has no bearing on what we do now with Martial, because he's shown that he's one of the best on offer here and now. Your previous post suggested Martial was replaceable and it would be easy to go out and acquire someone of more talent and similar age. This post suggests the opposite?
What? Just because I think he's immensely talented and could earn his stripes, doesn't mean I think there aren't any players that could become better.Okay, I misunderstood your initial post because of the way you worded it.
Did you read my post carefully? I wrote "If any player from our squad can rich the levels of Ronaldo and Messi, that's only Martial, none else.". That means I meant, in terms of talent, he is the closest from our squad to those two player, never said he ACTUALLY HAS the potential of those two.
If it was LVG keeping Martial out, the media would have asked for the head of LVG, now because it's Jose Mourinho, it's all Martial's fault. It's amazing how much the media loves JM, just because he tends to give them more stories and often very friendly with them.
Mor and Dembele are miles behind Martial, while the other two 2-3 years older than Martial. Those 2-3 years are important in football.
If you think Dembele is "miles behind" Martial, I'm not going to bother discussing with you.
Yes that is what I am saying they deserve to play more than Martial. I am not stating single performances I am making my case based on their overall performance throughout the season. That is my case! All those five players have contributed more than Martial for United this season. I do not care whether someone dribbled past a player without creating anything. I am watching football matches and stating what I have seen. I think I cannot say that any clearer so that I will repeat one last time hoping that you would be able to comprehend it. Those five players have contributed more than Martial this season, they have affected games more and based on their performances deserve to be ahead of him in the pecking order. My opinion is not based on a FA cup tie against a championship team that could have been won by a double margin or a league cup game against West Ham that was comfortably won because the opposition did not play like they did 3 days earlier. Martial's only good game that mattered this season was against Boro. He basically was our best player. But that is one game in the league out of 17 he took part in. In every other game he was mediocre at best. My opinion is not based on the talent of those players because in my opinion Rashford should play through the middle and therefore Martial has the greatest talent of them. It is based on the overall season, it is based on what our manager says. I still have not seen you stating what you are trying to say because first you say that Martial should be playing and then you say that you did not say that. Moreover his attitude is causing all his problems and the club should not be held hostage to one player. I have stated that 50 times and I cannot say it any clearer than that..
As I told you I do not have the whole day free to be able to answer you the minute you write something...Ask google about what? . About United?!? Now you really made me laugh
! I think it would be pathetic to start explaining to you how long I have been following United, how many games and finals I have attended, and so on. What I can state is that I really do not remember when was the last time I missed a game but based on your incompetence about Mata, I think you hardly watch any football. Based on you words about Tony as if he is sure to be the next Messi, I am starting to think that you have not followed United for a long time because I have seen a lot of players who had the potential to be superstars but because of one reason or another, mainly attitude they did not do it. Therefore I tend to stand by the manager and by the club. I stopped worshiping players because in the modern game and that amount of money in it almost every player would betray his club. Nevertheless Martial has unique talent and would be such a pity if he does not change his attitude and improve his game. I really hope that he be able to turn that corner and turn into that player. I will cheer his name like I do now and like I did last year. I would never stop doing it for as long as he plays for United but if he does not change he would just slip into mediocrity like many others before him and he has surely started doing that this season.I will again ask you what are you trying to say or state because I am bedazzled? What is the thesis that you are defending because you kept saying he should be in the team and yesterday you said that you did not say that...What is your thesis?
This is very strange comment.
Pogba also should have stayed and fought for his place under Fergie, and not gone elsewhere to star for a multi league winning team.
And whose influence doesn't "come and go" through a match. Ignoring Pogba's performance against Liverpool where it never even came let alone going, you'd think he was influencial and brilliant for 90 minutes which is bollocks. A 21 year old attacker is not going to influence for 90 minutes and I'd argue neither is a mature one. Even Ronaldo comes into games for phases of goal threat rather than throughout.
If Martial wants to leave and join another team that's fine, he can leave? Honestly don't understand what that first point is supposed to mean, I've never even spoken about whether or not he should stay or leave.
I don't expect him to influence a game for 90 minutes, what I expect is 100% effort over the 90 minutes. Comparing a young and fit Martial to Ronaldo who is coming to the latter end of his career and hasn't ran for seasons now is hardly a proper comparison. Compare Martial to young Ronaldo and you will see why.
Martial has the talent to take games by the neck and kill teams, yet he hasn't done it enough this season. He had one very good game against Boro? I think it was and he was playing against a makeshift right back, otherwise I can't think of many games apart from maybe the West Ham cup game (where I think he was also underwhelming bar his goals) he has flattered to deceive.
For large parts of the season he has looked reluctant to even run at defenders, he's looked a shadow of his last season form all season long. Even in his "good" performances he's been underwhelming knowing how good he can be. You can compare him to Pogba all you like but Martial plays in a position we are stocked in, don't play to your capability or don't put the effort in off the pitch and there is 4 other players waiting for their opportunity, that is how competition works.
What makes you think he isn't?
De bruyne and lukaku situations couldn't be more different. Both of those players were clearly not in mourinho's plans from day 1. Mourinho sent lukaku on loan and barely played de bruyne (think he featured in 2-3 PL games in 6 months) in the squad. Due to which they decided to leave. Martial has already played in 21 games for us this season in all comps.
If mourinho didn't rate martial he wouldn't have played him at all.
If anyone wants to leave they can whether that's Martial, Mourinho or Pogba. However, the club should ensure it's most valuable assets stay, of course, rather than become discontent and wanting away.
The first sentence was in response to the common line we seen regarding young players and how they should "shut up, work hard and force their way into the team". I obviously do agree that every player, young or old, should work hard for the team and try their best to cement a position. However, I also think people easily assume footballers aren't working their asses off just because they aren't in form or are unhappy with their situation. And on top of that, young players are never supposed to have a high opinion of themselves. While some clearly misjudge how good they are, Pogba is an example of a player who people ridiculed for having a poor attitude for having an opinion of himself that didn't match that of his managers. As per the rhetoric he should have sat and watched patiently as Park and Rafael played in games he could have gotten chances in. And sure, had he done that he might have done well too. But he chose his own path and made that probably a bigger success than United at that time could have.
Regarding the "100%" bit, Martial is simply not a lazy player. He might lack a tad bit of intensity at times but often languid players can be deceptive in this regard. Also, a lack of confidence can also effect a footballer/person. I've always seen him as someone who tracks back and puts in a shift. He can improve his movement but young players always have room for improvement. Coming to Ronaldo and that comparison, since you don't want to compare old Ronaldo, let's compare young Ronaldo. He was terrible defensively. Martial is a defensive rock in comparison to Ronaldo. He's also a much more mature footballer and doesn't run into blinda alleys and try 10 extra step overs than necessary. It's pure revisionism to claim Ronaldo was the ultimate team player as a youngster and Martial lags behind. Where Ronaldo was better was that he loved running at defenders in a carefree manner much more, whereas Martial likes to pick and choose his moments, possibly because the former was a winger whereas Martial is a striker who is converted into a wide forward.
Martial has looked reluctant to run at defenders? You do know that doesn't always mean the player is not trying right? All players go through spells where you're not able to show all your qualities. That doesn't necessarily mean they're not giving it everything. And sometimes you just need that extra faith and patience to get through a tougher patch.
Either way hopefully Jose is patient with him and prioritizes him more than he is, and Martial impresses him his manager more, over the coming months.
Bollocks. Have you ever seen Dembele play? He's a level above Martial.
Yes that is what I am saying they deserve to play more than Martial. I am not stating single performances I am making my case based on their overall performance throughout the season. That is my case! All those five players have contributed more than Martial for United this season. I do not care whether someone dribbled past a player without creating anything. I am watching football matches and stating what I have seen. I think I cannot say that any clearer so that I will repeat one last time hoping that you would be able to comprehend it. Those five players have contributed more than Martial this season, they have affected games more and based on their performances deserve to be ahead of him in the pecking order. My opinion is not based on a FA cup tie against a championship team that could have been won by a double margin or a league cup game against West Ham that was comfortably won because the opposition did not play like they did 3 days earlier. Martial's only good game that mattered this season was against Boro. He basically was our best player. But that is one game in the league out of 17 he took part in. In every other game he was mediocre at best. My opinion is not based on the talent of those players because in my opinion Rashford should play through the middle and therefore Martial has the greatest talent of them. It is based on the overall season, it is based on what our manager says. I still have not seen you stating what you are trying to say because first you say that Martial should be playing and then you say that you did not say that. Moreover his attitude is causing all his problems and the club should not be held hostage to one player. I have stated that 50 times and I cannot say it any clearer than that..
As I told you I do not have the whole day free to be able to answer you the minute you write something...Ask google about what? . About United?!? Now you really made me laugh
I will again ask you what are you trying to say or state because I am bedazzled? What is the thesis that you are defending because you kept saying he should be in the team and yesterday you said that you did not say that...What is your thesis?
Mwhaha my incompetence about Mata? You keep getting better and better ahaha. First after your constant ignoring stuff you didn't have answer, you resorted to inventing stuff which lead to again trying to twist the whole discussion.
If you knew anything you'd known that Mata wasn't in Valencia for 5 years like you said, but 4 and also that Mata rarely if ever played on the left in Chelsea due to them having Kalou and Malouda and than later Hazard.
Tell me again when did Mata play on the left for us?
Please do tell me when did i say that Marital need to be a starter and when did i say that we are doing bad with Mourinho?
You were even fighting with yourself at one point, which says a lot.
Also I'm sure you're aware that Martial actually have more goals/assists than Lingard and Rashford, with Rashford having more games.
Again like i said i want what's best for UTD and IMO that includes having Martial at least on the bench against Stoke.
all his touches vs Liverpool.
I knew I didn't remember the game wrongly. How on earth could this be classed as a crap performance or as a case of not taking his chance? Everytime he had the ball he was swarmed by three players at the least??!! And he did quite well under the circumstances by keeping possession or giving a useful pass? 3:54 he also won the ball and created a big goalscoring chance had mkhitaryan's pass been a bit better.
I doubt mkhi or pogba were better in that game, or anyone else on the pitch for that matter.
I knew I didn't remember the game wrongly. How on earth could this be classed as a crap performance or as a case of not taking his chance? Everytime he had the ball he was swarmed by three players at the least??!! And he did quite well under the circumstances by keeping possession or giving a useful pass? 3:54 he also won the ball and created a big goalscoring chance had mkhitaryan's pass been a bit better.
I doubt mkhi or pogba were better in that game, or anyone else on the pitch for that matter.
Basically you did not tell me how long have you been a United supporter and how long have you been watching football.
This discussion about Mata is ridiculous. I have watched him play for both Chelsea and Valencia. You definitely have not. As far as Mata is concerned I do not know when his signed his contract for Valencia but basically I remember him playing there from 2007 to 2011, which is basically 2007,2008,2009,2010,2011. If you want to be that concrete he basically signed in March 2007 so he stayed for 54 monhts, which is 4 and a half years. I did not say that he played on the left for Chelsea but he had played there occasionally.
We are not playing a system with players staying on the flanks all the time. Depending on the personnel Rooney, Lingard, Mata, and Miki play almost centrally when they are in the team. I told you that 100 times. We basically have 6 players that fight for those 2 forward positions.
As far as Martial is concerned I do not think that he should be ahead of those players based on what he has shown this season, Mourinho does not think that he should be, and Didier Deschamps does not think that as well and both of them say that he has to change his attitude. I know nobody of them is as good a manager as you but I tend to believe them rather than you. So basically I arrive at the decision that you are wrong...
Oh again technicalities to twist and turn the story around.
I guess now is the part you tell me i told you that moon is hollow and the earth is flat since as we already have witnessed you very much tend to invent stuff and leave questions that dont suit you, unabs.
Been a UTD fan close to 2 decades.
I remember to where Mata played and plethora of amazing teammates and coaches he had in Valencia but didn't want to help you divert our healthy discussion away from UTD, Mourinho and Martial.
Actually we do play the system that involves wingers but when Mata is playing because of his tendency to drift inside because of his best natural position being number 10 and because he's very effective whilst doing so, with him in team and because of Zlatan's often dropping deep to reduce the ball whilst enabling our wingers to fill the gap and space he opens we do appear not to play with wings.
Also for the reason of Lingard actually being our only winger per se whilst all others before forced to play outside of their positions and tend to drift in (to their more natural positions) we do appear to play without wingers.
But surely you knew that
You see you still ignoring my questions of when did i say those things you accuse me of?
Oh again technicalities to twist and turn the story around.
I guess now is the part you tell me i told you that moon is hollow and the earth is flat since as we already have witnessed you very much tend to invent stuff and leave questions that dont suit you, unabs.
Been a UTD fan close to 2 decades.
I remember to where Mata played and plethora of amazing teammates and coaches he had in Valencia but didn't want to help you divert our healthy discussion away from UTD, Mourinho and Martial.
Actually we do play the system that involves wingers but when Mata is playing because of his tendency to drift inside because of his best natural position being number 10 and because he's very effective whilst doing so, with him in team and because of Zlatan's often dropping deep to reduce the ball whilst enabling our wingers to fill the gap and space he opens we do appear not to play with wings.
Also for the reason of Lingard actually being our only winger per se whilst all others before forced to play outside of their positions and tend to drift in (to their more natural positions) we do appear to play without wingers.
But surely you knew that
You see you still ignoring my questions of when did i say those things you accuse me of?
No, I did not know it, I thought Lingard is our goalkeeper and Steve Bruce is our winger. Thanks for the information. The conversation has run its course and is getting quite ridiculous.
What did I accuse you of that you did not say it and what question I did not answer that you asked? You just chose to ignore that and keep saying one and the same thing. This discussion is really getting ridiculous as I am unable to see anything of truth and interest in what you say. I have been telling you that we play without wingers for 7 days and now you say quite the same thing but kept insisting that Martial is our best choice for a left winger?!?!
You say that you have been a United fan for 2 decades but from what you say I highly doubt it. You may be right but there is no way I could know that for sure. If that is the case I am sorry.
You have not said anything important or of interest in the last days so this conversation has really run its course. I have no desire whatsoever to prolong it.
I would be very happy if Martial played quite well today, which I am almost sure he would and then replicate that in the Premier League. Then he would become an automatic starter and one of our most important players and I would continue cheering his name week in and week out.
The bottom line is that up until now, neither his performances nor his attitude have constituted his automatic place in the team. Jose said that and Deschamps said that. What you say is basically totally irrelevant. Thanks for the conversation and have a nice day...Enjoy the game I think we would easily win it and Martial would definitely score...
But the fact is, Pogba has had successive poor or below average games and regardless of his performance in previous game/s, he still gets to start. There's much less tolerance with Martial, who has proven himself last season.
I mention Rashford and Lingad because they are two of his direct competitors who haven't necessarily outperformed him, yet have received as many if not more chances.
Rashford has done well as of late, but had a real dry spell in between and still had the trust of Mourinho. Hence it also applies that there appears to be less trust and patience with Martial, despite Martial having proven to be the superior player.
This is his chance, he cannot mess this up. I really hope he destroys Wigan today.
Worst case scenario is that he plays like shit and we don't see him again until April.
Best case scenario is that he does indeed destroy Wigan and as a result, we next see him sometime in the middle of February.
Martial will play well today, like he has in his last few games and he did last season. Because he is a brilliant player and he looks to be in decent form.
Everyone will then rush to Jose to kiss his feet and thank him for his brilliant man management. He Mhkied him! He demanded a response and got one! What a genius, blah blah blah.
How stupid are people to buy this crap?
Everyone will then rush to Jose to kiss his feet and thank him for his brilliant man management. He Mhkied him! He demanded a response and got one! What a genius, blah blah blah.
How stupid are people to buy this crap?
Or in the next game as happened last time he played well...
We must have different definitions of 'played well'. Opinions and all that.
He has been incredibly disappointing for the majority of the season. If he hits some consistent good form then yes the manager deserves credit. Its not about stupidity its about actually weighing up how the player is playing against how well they should be playing.
Could be, would make sense. I hope though beyond any ambiguity he plays as well as he is capable of today
Its sad because its true
The only reason he's not absolutely flying right now is because Jose keeps dropping him. He's been good in his last few appearances.
Do you give him credit for Mhkitaryan too? From where I'm standing the best player in last seasons Bundesliga was wasted on the bench for 3 months but apparently he was shite until Jose fixed him
Maybe if you threw away the narratives and actually watched the player's performance you'd be better placed to judge. There's been a distinct lack of that in this thread recently. Can it supporting the manager if you want but it's pretty harsh on the player himself
Really, really hoping Martial grabs this opportunity with both hands.
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