At the end of today, he isn’t 5’3. Maybe at the end of a day years ago he was, but not this year.
Angel Gomes - Will he stay or will he go? | Contract Expired 30th June and he's left the club
- Thread starter TheReligion
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My question has not been answered.
I think it's best for him if he moves on and goes to a club where he will potentially get regular playing time in the first team. He's not gonna oust Pogba or Fernandes and neither is he gonna play ahead of Matic or Fred as things stand. So it's best if he looks for first team opportunities at possibly a midtable club somewhere rather than be a bit part player here.
We also have some very good youth players who will hopefully be knocking on the door very soon. And for me Hannibal Mejbri looks nailed on to break into the first team in the not too distant future and we'll possibly have Bellingham too. And if not Bellingham, then we possibly could try and sign Gravenberch from Ajax who is reported to be non committal regards a contract renewal as per the very reliable Dutch media outlet VI.
We also have some very good youth players who will hopefully be knocking on the door very soon. And for me Hannibal Mejbri looks nailed on to break into the first team in the not too distant future and we'll possibly have Bellingham too. And if not Bellingham, then we possibly could try and sign Gravenberch from Ajax who is reported to be non committal regards a contract renewal as per the very reliable Dutch media outlet VI.
At the end of the day i went off wiki
Well, since you replied to @Tom Cato question with a question, that would be fair, right?
No, managers are not infallible. They make decisions based on the information they gather by the things I mentioned in my post. So, back to the original question: If Williams and Greenwood are being given time (among others), why isn't Gomes?
Wish him the best and hope there is no truth to the report that he has been maligned internally because of physical stats. However he chose to run down his contract and I wish him well if he decides to leave the club. End of the day its a cut throat business and you have to be good enough though I understand his frustration with the likes of Lingaard getting games despite shocking form.
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Thank you.
Have you measured him recently? as he’s a short arse, he’d be 5’5 absolute tops and very lightweight. His stats online put him around the 5’3 area, so obviously unless someone measure him or we get official club stats, people are going to quote what information is available to them.
Pretty sure Pogba was 5’3 at the end of a day years ago, but like your post it’s not relevant.
Not sure what all the fuss is about.
There are only 2 questions that matter:
1. So we think he’ll be good enough
2. Does he want to be here?
Answer to first question is we obviously have some doubts about him, else he’d be more settled like Williams, Greenwood and Garner.
Answer to 2nd question is he doesn’t love the club THAT much despite all we’ve done for him. That’s also fair enough: we live in a commercial world.
So let him go. There is a small chance he will ‘embarrass’ us with future success a la Pogba, De Byrne or Lukaku. But most likely it won’t happen.
We’ve raided plenty of other teams youth gems, can’t complain when it happens to us.
Personally I’m not that fussed, don’t think we will come to regret and if we do, it’s 4 or 5 years away. We need to win the league before that!
There are only 2 questions that matter:
1. So we think he’ll be good enough
2. Does he want to be here?
Answer to first question is we obviously have some doubts about him, else he’d be more settled like Williams, Greenwood and Garner.
Answer to 2nd question is he doesn’t love the club THAT much despite all we’ve done for him. That’s also fair enough: we live in a commercial world.
So let him go. There is a small chance he will ‘embarrass’ us with future success a la Pogba, De Byrne or Lukaku. But most likely it won’t happen.
We’ve raided plenty of other teams youth gems, can’t complain when it happens to us.
Personally I’m not that fussed, don’t think we will come to regret and if we do, it’s 4 or 5 years away. We need to win the league before that!
Objectively speaking we give young players a chance more then most clubs and players like Brandon and Greenwood have proven that if you are good enough the club will let go of older players and play the youth. They had to deal with Shaw and Young, Mata, Lingard, Pereira and James. It's all on Gomes to do the same with only Bruno being clearly in front of him and Lingard and Pereira having been frozen out and possibly on the way out. This season he also had a number of injuries if i'm not mistaken. He will stay imo as he's at the best club right now for his development. He has the talent, just needs to put it in to practice when give that chance.
This is the thing that just doesn't sit well with fans.
Obviously we didn't see what happened in trainings, it's possible and likely Gomes didn't do well. Before Bruno, considering the mess at #10, surely we should try him more there. If that happened and he fail, we will be more accepting of letting him go. Similar to how fans eventually come to terms with Andreas Pereira and Chong not really that good.
If he's really leaving...
Hopefully Ole or any other youth representative from the club may openly reveal why Gomes is not "ready".
I think that the U-23 coaching staff, Ole's support staff and Ole himself has seen Angel Gomes play in both the U23's, watched him playin in the Europa League, and observed him at practice, and determined that he's better off developing in the U23's this season with the occasional callup.
What is your take on it?
By the way: My question was: WHY isn't Angel Gomes playing? I never made a statement that he shouldn't.
So I ask you again, why isn't Angel Gomes playing, when others are?
That'd be wildly unprofessional so of course they won't go public with that.
Angel Gomes is hyped up because he's a very short, likeable underdog. Everyone wants him to be a successs story. I want him to be a success story.
He got gametime earlier this season, and he wasn't that good. So the question is: Has Angel Gomes, 19 years old, who didn't play that well in the first team when he got the chance this year: earned the opportunity to be spoonfed gametime? Or has the coaching staff done right in allowing him to play in the U23', where he can play every single game and actually develop? What's the massive rush with having him play in the first team now when he's not ready?
Gomes is a strange one. Everyone at United seemed to be excited about his development then once the contract stuff came out he's disappeared completely.
He would have definitely got games over the likes of Lingard if this contract stuff wasn't rumbling on. I suspect he's either refusing to sign so he can leave on a free and get a much bigger contract, or he's asking United for a huge amount they don't feel comfortable giving a player still in the academy. If he does leave it will all come out in the end anyway, probably shades of Pogba (when he left for Juventus) about this one.
He would have definitely got games over the likes of Lingard if this contract stuff wasn't rumbling on. I suspect he's either refusing to sign so he can leave on a free and get a much bigger contract, or he's asking United for a huge amount they don't feel comfortable giving a player still in the academy. If he does leave it will all come out in the end anyway, probably shades of Pogba (when he left for Juventus) about this one.
The sensible thing for him to do would be to sign a new contract with the proviso of going out on loan for the season to get first team football.
There’s no better place for him as a young player, and certainly Chelsea should be low on the list of suitable destinations, and he’s still young enough to stick around for a few more years before he gets these itchy feet.
He spoke very glowingly about United and what it means to him recently so not sure why this is such a tough decision for him.
There’s no better place for him as a young player, and certainly Chelsea should be low on the list of suitable destinations, and he’s still young enough to stick around for a few more years before he gets these itchy feet.
He spoke very glowingly about United and what it means to him recently so not sure why this is such a tough decision for him.
I'm not liking the Chelsea rumours! If Chong got a new deal why hast Angel?
He’s been offered a new deal but hasn’t accepted it . Chong did.
Maybe I wrote it badly, no Williams is not a Greenwood level talent, and he has gotten a chance thanks to Shaw's injury and Dalot's injury as well (Young having to play RB as an option if i remember correctly). He has excelled I agree but that does not justify why Angel Gomes has not gotten more chances instead of dross like Lingard.
Your question about why Angel hasn't been able to secure more playtime leads perfeclty to the question who also needs an answer, why have Lingard and Pereira gotten so many chances despite being absolutely appalling?
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Lets not compare a kid that cant get games in our current set up to iniesta and xavi.
Gomes plays in a very important position for the team/set up, and it would have been a bit too much to expect him to carry the team in the absence of Pogba and pre-Bruno in the centre of the pitch. I think, if he stays, Ole will feel far more comfortable giving Gomes minutes with Pogba and Bruno around him.
Lingard and Perreira were a necessity during an injury crisis more than anything, and better to use them with their greater experience than to ruin a young players confidence by putting him in a very pressurised position. A large chunk of our games this season we were in a desperate situation and that is not a great environment for him to play his first 10 or so PL games.
Hopefully he stays and we are in a stronger position during games to afford him more minutes.
It is understandable that players like Angel Gomes want first team football, there would be something wrong if they didn't!
Trouble is Angel has not taken his chances when they have come and that's down to him. Wherever he goes, he will only get so many chances, the difference at United is they know his background and probably what steps he needs to take next, if he moves somewhere else on a bigger salary, he gets even more pressure on him. and they don't know him as well as the team at United I would advise him to hang on at least another season, get some impressive games under his belt, then look to move, if he still wants to go.
Very few clubs, at United's level, have as much history of bringing players through the ranks, Angel needs not only some good advice, he also needs to listen!
Trouble is Angel has not taken his chances when they have come and that's down to him. Wherever he goes, he will only get so many chances, the difference at United is they know his background and probably what steps he needs to take next, if he moves somewhere else on a bigger salary, he gets even more pressure on him. and they don't know him as well as the team at United I would advise him to hang on at least another season, get some impressive games under his belt, then look to move, if he still wants to go.
Very few clubs, at United's level, have as much history of bringing players through the ranks, Angel needs not only some good advice, he also needs to listen!
I agree with the first paragraph to some extent, it's easier for a kid LB to play than a kid CAM, less pressure.
However Lingard and Perreira were nothing related to necessity, just blind favoritism and stupidity from Ole, especially Lingard. He has been so useless 90% of the time, we were better playing with 10 men. And I see so often posters throwing that "ruin his confidence by playing him". What the feck is that? On the contrary what kind of confidence do we give a 19 year old supremely talented kid who has to sit on the bench while we play Championship players repeatedly?
I do hope he stays, but anyone downplaying the role of the mismanagment done be the manager is laughable to me. I just hope it does not turn up as another Pogba situation.
You realize Xavi made his debut for Barcelona at 21 and Gomes is 19 having made his debut at 16 right?
Iniesta made his at 18
If they werent given chances they wouldnt have got games either.
Then he's wrong. We could have played Pogba, we used Rafael and Park in CM instead. And Scholes came out of retirement to push him further back where he was going to get no play time.
He went to Juventus and more or less right into the team on a weekly basis
Why is Lindelof starting when we could have had Smalling? Why isnt Ander in our CM?
Why is Chong getting games when he had a wretched game against Astana (I watched it again) while Gomes had the best first half of all our youngsters, better than Greenwood who was lively but made a lot of poor choices losing the ball and Williams?
Mismanagement most likely. Apparently Gomes has had some knocks but if he isnt happy with his first team chances then clearly he's been fit enough to play more than he's been given the chance
Our coaches and OGS aren't stupid (even if there are some here who claim that they are) -. if Gomes had been brilliant in training, he would have been given a lot more chances.
It's not blind favoritism and stupidity.
Gomes is not supposed to be the savior and also not supposed to be first team player in the first place, he's not going to just throw away the kids to save the day. Instead he prefers to introduce them slowly rather than do like LVG did. This is where Lingard & Pereira as first team player have to step up and clearly they didn't after given so many chances which forced Ole to sign Bruno.
Beside, you don't know what they do in training. When Ole was asked about Greenwood's chance in starting XI spot, he mentioned that Greenwood is doing well but also need to show more and work harder in the training.
After giving chances on Lingard & Pereira, I'm sure Ole had enough with at least one of them and one of them is likely to go which open spot for Gomes.
I don't think Ziyech will play through the midfield at Chelsea but where he has for Ajax on the wing. Which is naturally why the Sancho rumours began to go south after they confirmed interest.
I think Gomes gets plenty of game time at Chelsea if Mount is his only competition in that advanced attacking midfield position. Mount is the best representation of how Angel could potentially develop under Lampard. In my honest opinion if we had Mount at United and Ole in charge of his development I highly doubt he would see much game time here. Solskjaer tactically for me still isn't getting enough fluidity out of our midfield.
I've said it plenty before but I don't even think height is the issue, I think it's more stamina related.
He's really good for 20 mins or so then drifts in and out of the game. I think for the mens level he just would end up being a passenger in that sense, at least players with good physical attributes don't need carrying.
He's really good for 20 mins or so then drifts in and out of the game. I think for the mens level he just would end up being a passenger in that sense, at least players with good physical attributes don't need carrying.
You realize you are completely wrong about Xavi. He made his debut for the senior team at 18. He looked a worldy even then.
This is 100% facts it's Solskjaer's mismanagement that will cause Gomes to leave. Considering Gomes has been captain at U16-18's (including for England) I fail to comperehend a scenario where he's somehow lackluster or exemplifing a bad attitude in training. It goes against the grain of how is character is assembled given the criteria of his responsibility at youth level. He was also decent in pre season so at the least had some momentum to carry into the full campaign.
When you consider the way we play as a team we are not coached in a manner that makes the movement of our midfield useful for a possession based individual. That is why unless we have players who can work it out on their own (Pogba's / Fernandes) we will continue to have average performers in the creative side of midfield. Pereira / Lingard were an absolute disgrace last season but I can't solely hold their performances to their ability as they have a higher capacity to perform. Management have a role in this too.
I think the main problem is: can Gomes actually be that much worse than Chong? Honestly, Chong has been verging on diabolical almost every time I have watched him for the first team.
What is Chong actually good at? He is not that fast; he is not a good dribbler; he is not good at passing or final balls; he is not good at finishing. There isn't a single area that looks like he has a lot of promise. That is why people wonder why Gomes gets zero chances when Chong does.
What is Chong actually good at? He is not that fast; he is not a good dribbler; he is not good at passing or final balls; he is not good at finishing. There isn't a single area that looks like he has a lot of promise. That is why people wonder why Gomes gets zero chances when Chong does.
So as I rewatched the first Astana game where he started behind Rashford up front I wanted to give this performance a review because it was actually very good. He was very composed and quick with the ball, finding teammates with ease in better positions. Very mature for someone who hasnt played much first team football. He won freekicks around the edge of the box 2 or 3 times, pretty much at will when he took a player on. He hit 1 freekick into the wall, not so great.
He took every corner from both sides and at 3-4 of them were good deliveries that a United player either got on the end of, or the defenders had trouble dealing with leading to a scramble and a chance for us. He did take 1 corner in the second half that went in low and straight to an Astana defender, but that was the only bad one and he took lots. He also had 1 good cross from open play.
One of the things I was looking at is how much he was making runs and being active when he didnt have the ball. I was pleasantly surprised as he made intelligent runs, closed down people aggressively when they received the ball near him and at times when he was holding his position in the middle he was even communicating to the players on the ball and deeper than him, telling them where to move the ball around which is a sign of leadership.
In the first 5 minutes he had a good one two on the edge of the box, then teed up Fred to his right and Fred hit the bar.
In the first 5 minutes of the 2nd half he had a heel flick into Rashford in the buildup, Rashford couldnt keep it and it came back to Gomes and he did pretty much a cruyff turn in between 2 players and found Rojo in the box who put in a cross across the goal that several players couldnt get on the end of.
And then he was subbed in the 67th minute along with Chong who didnt look anywhere near ready on the day. While Gomes came of as easily one of our best players that game.
His performance had everything but a shot at goal and looking like a goal threat. He put in a performance where he very much was looking for teammates in dangerous areas rather than going for goal himself.
Astana arent the strongest team we've played against this season. I'm not sure they're even premier league quality... But he was just as good as Fred and better than Rashford and Greenwood on the day, and those have been 3 of our best players in the europa league. Greenwood did score the winner so maybe you value that over his overall performance given he's a wide striker.
Its just 1 match. But anyone suggesting Gomes hasnt done anything in the few chances he's been given this season either didnt watch this match or forgot and needs to watch it again.
Some of his other few matches he wasnt that involved. But this performance he was really good and if its a sign of things to come he should obviously be getting chances instead of Mata, Lingard and Andreas
Edit - He had 92% pass accuracy and was tackled 0 times, whilst making 2 dribbles and winning 3 freekicks. Fast feet and maturely moving the ball to teammates
He took every corner from both sides and at 3-4 of them were good deliveries that a United player either got on the end of, or the defenders had trouble dealing with leading to a scramble and a chance for us. He did take 1 corner in the second half that went in low and straight to an Astana defender, but that was the only bad one and he took lots. He also had 1 good cross from open play.
One of the things I was looking at is how much he was making runs and being active when he didnt have the ball. I was pleasantly surprised as he made intelligent runs, closed down people aggressively when they received the ball near him and at times when he was holding his position in the middle he was even communicating to the players on the ball and deeper than him, telling them where to move the ball around which is a sign of leadership.
In the first 5 minutes he had a good one two on the edge of the box, then teed up Fred to his right and Fred hit the bar.
In the first 5 minutes of the 2nd half he had a heel flick into Rashford in the buildup, Rashford couldnt keep it and it came back to Gomes and he did pretty much a cruyff turn in between 2 players and found Rojo in the box who put in a cross across the goal that several players couldnt get on the end of.
And then he was subbed in the 67th minute along with Chong who didnt look anywhere near ready on the day. While Gomes came of as easily one of our best players that game.
His performance had everything but a shot at goal and looking like a goal threat. He put in a performance where he very much was looking for teammates in dangerous areas rather than going for goal himself.
Astana arent the strongest team we've played against this season. I'm not sure they're even premier league quality... But he was just as good as Fred and better than Rashford and Greenwood on the day, and those have been 3 of our best players in the europa league. Greenwood did score the winner so maybe you value that over his overall performance given he's a wide striker.
Its just 1 match. But anyone suggesting Gomes hasnt done anything in the few chances he's been given this season either didnt watch this match or forgot and needs to watch it again.
Some of his other few matches he wasnt that involved. But this performance he was really good and if its a sign of things to come he should obviously be getting chances instead of Mata, Lingard and Andreas
Edit - He had 92% pass accuracy and was tackled 0 times, whilst making 2 dribbles and winning 3 freekicks. Fast feet and maturely moving the ball to teammates
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According to wikipedia he actually made his debut in may 1998 in the cup against lieda, he was 22. He'd made his debut for Barcelona B (in the 3rd division) not the first team before that.
Obviously helping a team get promoted from the 3rd division of their nation to the 2nd in his years from 18-21 is not like playing a bunch of games for the first team of a premier league team that are 5th in the league.
In his first season Barcelona did win the league but again he was 22, not 18.
Lindlelof is a better player than Smalling, Fred in this season's form is an incremental improvement upon Ander,
Chong has shown he can cut the mustard in senior football.
Gomes however hasn't, you could argue he hasn't had the opportunities but also we could argue he hasn't deserved the opportunities due to attitude.
That really is as simple as it gets.
It's almost as if people forget that Ole played football at the highest level, and that he can't recognise a good player when he sees one.
It's almost as if people forget that Ole has won stuff as a manager.
Lindelof is a weak defender who has the benefit of the best defensive right back in the world right next to him and helping to cover for him but still doesnt look right, Fred is a better attacking player but worse defensive player than Ander.
The only thing we can judge Gomes attitude on is where we've seen him, on the pitch. And in our 1-0 against Astana he had a great attitude
What does that mean, "not suppossed to be the saviour or not supposed to be first team player in the first place"? Lingard is not suppossed to be a Manchester United player and he is stealing a living on 120k a week, playing absolutely shit, and that is not stupidity and favoritism? And what do you mean throw away the kids? Giving them a proper chance is throwing away? I bet the kids love it when they see someone like Lingard getting chance after chance, when he does not deserve it. Most of the kids from the academy will go on with their lives without even getting a chance for the club they love, and you think giving them game time or throwing them away to save the day is a bad thing?
The best examples of our youth tradition in recent years are exactly that, look at Rashford, thrown away in the deep and where is he now? Than there is Welbeck, Macheda, Wilson, Januzaj. They thrived when they were thrown in the deep, what separates them from the likes of Rashford is how they fare afterwords.
This bolder part is also overlooked when discussing the season. Gomes did look very promising, while Lingard was appalling in pre-season. Yet Ole did go into the season with "proven" underperformer.
according to Wikepedia He was born in 1980 making him 18 in his debut season of which he played 26 senior games. (he floated between the B team and 1st team). He was even on the bench in the Champions League game vs Newcastle in 1997 aged 17.
What it means is that Gomes's role in the team wasn't supposed to be our first team & the hero to save us. He was part of U23 player who is slowly introduced into first team.
The one who offered the wages is not Ole. He was already offered new contract & new wages before Ole came in, he has whatever he was left when he took in charge. Lingard is our first team player not U23 player, it makes sense to give Lingard chances rather than throwing a kid to save the day.
You need to understand that not every youngster are the same. Not everyone are like Rashford. Rashford was blessed with incredible pace & physically ready to challenge PL players, Owen is another good example of it. Gomes is not, he's more of a pure technical player.
And again, you don't know what they do in training.
I would say 'ruining his confidence by playing him' is a bit different to 'ruining his confidence by playing him in a pivotal role within a dysfunctional team', and that's what I think the situation would have been had he been thrown in at CAM during the middle of this season. If there was space wide left, that would have been ideal and surely would have seen him get more minutes, although Chong seems to be ahead in the pecking order for that position (maybe because of the contract situation).