Would prefer to keep him in the short term, however, if he does go on loan, would rather it was to another Premier league club where he'll get game time in the right environment.
Andreas Pereira to Valencia? | It happened
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I call attempting to equate the two being a pure drama queen. Its not my fault you are so intent on putting tok much stock in words. I could have used bad, lousy, idiotic and stupid etc instead. I chose awful because that is what repeating the same mistake over again, when you know better, looks like.
Last season we reduced our selves to just 4 midfielders and it cost is a top 4 position and forced us to employ the risky strategy of guaranteeing a Europa league win to get champions league football. This season one of those four options is a year older, and all we've added is Matic. To then let go on loan or sale a player with the ability and enough senior league experience to beef up that department is plain dumb.
Last season we started the season with 5 more players than we have now. We've simply swapped Zlatan with Lukaku and Fosu-Mensah with Lindeloff. So far for losing Schneiderlin, Depay and Schweinstieger we've only added Matic and till the news that launched the thread, Pereira. The squad is the same and will be weaker if we loan out Pereira.
We lost that realistic chance due to our lack of depth. That was fairly obvious. Everything you mentioned in your argument above was a direct consequence of it. Best case in point was the Swansea game. Had we had the depth to rotate properly we'd have won that game and stayed with in a chance of a top 4+ finish.
Again, not obvious at all to me. We lost that chance cause we dropped shit loads of points and we were all ready behind with a very difficult schedule. If anything it was injuries to forwards and defenders that impacted us more than injuries at CM. We lost our best striker and many defenders. We only lost pogba in midfield for a couple of games due to tight hamstring.
I'm not saying he underperformed. In fact I think he played his best from central positions, but to make some outlandish statement that he would contribute more than Mata has zero basis in reality especially when he hasn't played on the right.
He could be our Marco Asensio, but we've decided again to loan him. Of course our team is playing very well at the moment, but what a huge potential he has. I feel sad that this is happening again, but then again I hope he can help Valencia to get on the level they were.
So Peiera's preferred foot and his pace makes him a superior option than Mata? These are physical attributes. It is ridiculous to suggest that someone's physical attributes is a barometer for quality of the attacker. You can do better.
Mixed feelings. He deserves the same amount of minutes Rashford gets, but the midfield positions are too stacked to give him that much game-time. He is not going to be subbed on ahead of Herrera or Fellaini. Perhaps a loan move is not so bad if he develops further.
Wish he was a wide player, he'd got used more often right here right now. One more loan in the top flight will do him good, but why not a PL team.
Bit of a non-starter if Mourinho is said not to be keen on the idea then isn't it surely?
I love how you keep overlooking the fact Pereira is both an intelligent and a naturally creative player. On top of his being a quicker and naturally right footed player for a right side role. To quote you verbatim 'you can do better'Pretty much. People are only looking at it from one angle. Yes, he would be nice to have him as someone who provides if we go through am injury crisis but in the long it would be detrimental for him to be playing so little football. I'd just sell him and put a buy back clause on him or I'd sell Lingard and promote Pereira to the bench.
Actually,
what has zero basis in reality is imagining a naturally intelligent, quick, creative, right footed player some how has 'no basis' to be considered a better option for a right side role than a purely left footed, creative player (also intelligent) who is slightly faster than Daley Blind, for a right sided role. That line of argument is up there with preffering Blind over a Lindeloff for a right back role because Lindeloff is yet to play there for us.
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Lingard is going nowhere.
He only signed a new contract this year and since we qualified for CL the clause for an automatic salary increase has been activated. So he earns 100k pw now, which no one in this or any other league will be willing to match. On top of that he is an academy product, quite popular with key members of the squad and seemingly well liked by Mourinho.
I don't think any realistic plans for Andreas can be based on Lingard being sold. Not for the near future anyway.
it's not a bad move, a step from grenada, valencia play a style of football that will suit pereira and test him a lot more as to how good he is at present, if he makes a good impact he'll either get a place in our squad next season or the club will be able to ask a lot of money for his signature if he wants to leave to play regular football
Send him to a team in the PL, Swansea would be a good fit as a Sigurdsson replacement
Would be madness to let them go on a free. Money to be made on both of them.
I know we've agreed to disagree already but why do you keep removing the 'intelligent' from Mata?
Being picky here but his runs off the ball are probably the best in our team which is quite synonymous with being an intelligent player, no?No doubt Lingard is going nowhere. I only suggested him because hes the only one I think Pereira is better than. Also, Pereira is home grown as well.
I don't reallyI know we've agreed to disagree already but why do you keep removing the 'intelligent' from Mata?
. Mata's intelligence is in no need of highlighting. In any argument involving him its literally a given. Pereira's in comparsion has to be in any attempt to compare him to Mata. But I'll edit and put it in brackets to avoid any confusion
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I don't really
Alright mate, as you were
What is it with this over hyping our young players? He's shown nothing to even be compared in the bracket underneath Asensio let alone on the same level. Thought he looked bang average in pre-season. Played alright for Granada, but again showed nothing out of the ordinary to mark him out as a remarkable talent. Promising is about the only word I can use to describe him right now.Best part of that post is "but we've decided again to loan him" despite everyone saying Mourinho doesn't want to loan him. Top post.
They've just bought Kondogbia and are getting Guedes from PSG on loan. Besides Mourinho supposedly wants to keep him.
I'd rather see us wait until at least January, give him some cup games and see if he can get on the bench for the PL ahead of Lingard.
Mata is also a far more creative and intelligent player than Peirera and has two very successful stints at Chelsea and Manchester United to show for it. What does peiera have to show for? 1 loan spell at Granada where his best performances came through the middle and on the left side??
Bullshit. You only believe that with the benefit of having seen Mata for longer and at his peak. And I'm really not going to get into a 'who is more experienced' argument. A player doesn't need to have more experience than another to be a better natural fit for a particular role. For example Tuanzebe is a better natural fit and option for a center half role than Blind, without being anywhere near as experienced nor proven.
If we were playing in the Champions league final tomorrow and I had to choose between Blind or Tuanzebe to start at centre half, I'd pick Blind every time.
Experience is massively important at the elite level.
Tough luck. He's competing with mata, pogba, mkhi, herrera, fellaini in midfield.
Wasn't his fault nor us, a loan would be best but looks like him being sold is just a matter of time. Unless he somehow becomes zidane like.
Andreas doesn't need to have more experience nce but he needs to PROVE that he that he can perform a better job than Mata. if you opt to play a player with no experience in a certain role then you are taking on a lot of risk that may come at the expense of the team. As @Garethw pointed out, experience is very important at the highest level. Why do you think we have the loan system and academies in the first place?
I don't see how another season in the Spanish league will be all that beneficial to him, not if he plans to ply his trade in the prem. Not to mention that with our injury record, his services may very well be required at various stages of the season.
Keep.
Keep.
I'd settle for a Scholes type personally.
United fans are easy to please contrary to popular belief.
He wont make it here.
At best he's a solid 7 while to keep us at the top we need a solid 8 player. We will just buy another one when the need arrives just like we splash the cash for mata, pogba, mkhi, carrick, keane, etc. Most of our graduates bar scholes aren't good enough to commandeer our midfield.
It's not a slag at him but you really need to be the best to play for a big club. The same goes for any other club.
I'd describe Lingard as a solid 6 at best, yet he seems to have made it. He's here at age 25, on 100k pw and getting plenty of games.
Maybe Pereira won't make it as a main playmaker. Maybe he'll make it as a jack of all trades. Who knows?
There is an "intelligence", "maturity" and "experience" factor that you're missing completely. Anyway, no point arguing. By the way, I'm not saying he's not better or he's worse. All I'm saying is, no one knows he's better. And no one will until he proves it.
I doubt that you can seriously believe a player slightly faster than Blind, incapable of going on the outside of his man , let alone keeping up,
with him and totally left footed
is a superior option for the same right wing role.
And NB: superior option doesn't mean better player.
And I'm tired of this 'is he faster, where is the evidence' line of argument. Everyone knows Mata is slightly faster than Blind. And anyone who bothered to watch Granada last season got to see Pereira having to track back against almost every attacking player he faced. From the super quick to the averaged pace, which he by and large was able to do. And no he did not move slightly faster than Blind to do it.....
Lingard too won't be the main star. If jose got perisic who you'd think he'd bench?
No offence to lingard, some position (striker, playmaker, winger) are very important more so than defender. You could get by with players like oshea covering the back line, darmian playing fullback, but for striker or attacking midfielder there aren't too much room for error. Over the years saf has given time for newbies on the wing but he didn't even trust pogba to play in midfield.
If he's to go on loan then a move to a PL club would be the most logical destination. Swansea, Newcastle, Brighton, or even Watford.
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That's not an example of good judgement to be fair. SAF trusted Scholes with 17 appearances for the first team at age 19. The fact he didn't do the same with Pogba, despite his obvious talent and lack of options in CM at the time, goes down as a major mistake in most people's books. One that cost us £90m. Even the big man was capable of mistakes, no one is perfect.
Anyway, I don't expect him to make it as main playmaker here. That is Pogba for the next 7-8 years, the role is filled by a better player. He could take over from Herrera as a utilitarian CM or filling in as CAM or RW. Like I said, less talented players have managed to hold down a squad role.
Though if we are talking about whether he will become a star and a main man here, I'd agree with you that I don't see it either.
It's unlikely he'll make it here I agree, but for the short term he's good enough to provide cover.
Im really not and I don't see why they should matter as per my line of argument. You don't need to look at experience, intelligence and maturity to acknowledge for example that a Tuanzebe is a better natural option at center half than Blind. The problem here it seems you and others are conflating being a better natural option with being a better player . My argument is simply Pereira is a better natural fit for a right winger role than Mata. Even though Mata is clearly the better player.
That's fair enough.
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